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Subject: Dispute with HOA
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Author Messages
RasmiaT1
(Texas)

Posts:11


03/08/2020 2:29 PM  
Our Condo at the 3rd floor in August 24-2019. our washer brook We didn't have any flooding or any leak in our unit or any other damages. 2nd floor had water damages everywhere Family room, Kitchen. bed rooms, Bathroom. Hall. just everywhere. went to the first floor. Repair was done to both unit on September 3rd. There was no investigation was done in our unit neither Adjuster visited our unit. after 6 month I received a letter from the Association claim of damages for both units I requested proof of damages that was cause from my unit proof of payment and a meeting with the board several time. the HOA carry the master policies. I wasn't aware the master policy didn't cover the inside of the unit. by reading the By Low. stated it's the duty and responsibility of the association to make sure all policies are enforced at all time and should be reviewed every two years to make sure they in place. if the owner does not carry the personal policy notes should be sent to the owner and if the owner field the Association have the right to perches the policy and pill the owner.
in 15 years the policy was never reviewed the Association field to review any policy and field to enforce any policy. on November 2019 in the same building another condo had burst pip that damage three units. this is the only time they start enforcing the policies. after 6 month they sent me claim of the damages for both unit.they are not able or refusing to sent me any proof that damages is from my unit. they are not responding to my request to have a meeting for hearing with the board and they are not giving any proof of damages was done from my unit. I requested the actual pills and payments. the only things I received is the Adjuster assessment and proposal but not the Adjuster report which I requested.I don't understand how uninsured could be cause of the damages. even if I had insurgence at the time of the incident they still require by low to provide all evidence before any payment made. the Boards made there determination and decision without any proof. the notes I received for the claim of damages is base on uninsured at the time of the indecent. I sent a certify letter requesting again proof of damages. proof of payment and a Board hearing before I submit any payment. they send me a certify letter threatening me by placing a lien if I don't pay by March 10-2020. I am trying to work things without any Attorney.And the most important thing is the first floor is the president of the HOA. in August the same date she requested her deductible. I refused to pay unless she provide me with proof. I know it's conflict of interest at the same I know for fact she's behind all this trouble.
I feel this is harassment and abusive of power. They denying my right to have a hearing and dispute the charges based on no evident or any proof that damages was done from my unit.

Please let me know if you have any advice.

Thank's
Rasmia
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3063


03/08/2020 3:21 PM  
At this point, your best bet would be to work with the attorney. You said your washer was broken and it wasn't leaking, but something could have happened with the pipe you didn't see. That said, the association should have asked you questions to see if there had been a plumbing issue that could have been checked out before now.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9136


03/08/2020 4:06 PM  
When I moved into my 2 story house, I had the hose to the upstairs bathroom burst at the tank. There was no flooding or little in my bathroom. I had quickly turned the water off and thought everything was okay. Went downstairs to find water dripping from my living room ceiling and entry way. The water had leaked between the floors. My upstairs piping is right above the front door/entry area. However, the water had leaked to the upstairs bedroom which is carpeted above my living room. So did not see any water on my end upstairs.

Water always flows down hill and down. So I can understand how your 2 neighbors below you got water damaged and you did not experience any. Doesn't mean it did not happen. Your homeowner's insurance and theirs should have been duking it out. They should have made a claim on their insurance policies to collect on yours. So don't know why this did not happen. Sounds like everyone went to the HOA's insurance company instead. So I'd suggest calling your insurance agent immediately to duke it all out.

It is your fault whether you saw any damage in your unit or not. This is why we have insurance. They make washer/hot water heater shut off alarms. May want to check those out. Plus pressure hoses for washers to prevent bursts hoses. I got one for my toilet.

Former HOA President
RasmiaT1
(Texas)

Posts:11


03/08/2020 4:45 PM  
We didn't have any pluming problem. the 2nd floor had pluming work and I don't think leak can cause pluming problem. and if that true why the association refusing to provide the Adjuster report. and any other proof. will be very easy to solve the problem if they provide the evident's. If the a leak was inside the wall the Association should take of it. They still need to provide proof.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


03/08/2020 10:09 PM  
Have your attorney send letter for requests via “Certified Return Receipt”. While they may ignore your requests if they ignore attorney requests sent whereby they had to sign for the letter they would have a hard time in a court of law explaining not providing the documents when they signed acknowledging receipt of the letter.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


03/08/2020 10:15 PM  
If the HOA is trying to assess you for any damages they need to provide proof your unit was responsible. Which from what you have so far described is highly unlikely. After all you have not noted ANY access to your unit to complete any repairs; therefore, how can your unit have caused any damage?
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9136


03/08/2020 10:21 PM  
Janet the OP is on floor above. Their washer broke but saw nothing on their floor. However they seem to indicate floors below did. The repair may not been needed on their floor. My house my pipe is leaking on second but access is on the first.

Former HOA President
RasmiaT1
(Texas)

Posts:11


03/08/2020 10:52 PM  
The 2nd floor had always problem, in the past they complain more than 6 times about leak from my unit and every time she was in to check for a leak that was never confirm. one time she came with plumber
complaining about leak in her master bedroom the plumber check everything in our unit never find any leak. leak can be inside the wall too or problem with the pip inside the wall. there is nothing wrong to request evident. according to Adjuster report there charges again the Association. I am just not taking full responsibility before any evident provided. the incident happened in August. in November the other side of the building one of the unit had a burst pip on the wall that damage the 2nd and first floor badly, there is no reason not to provide the Adjuster report.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


03/08/2020 11:13 PM  
Melissa ... The OP noting the washer breaking has ZERO to do with any other water PIPES. 2+2=4 ... If a washer broke the water would come from the washer and not any piping within the units. The OP would definitely have seen water on their floor under the washer. Sounds more to me like the unit below is actually having the issues and trying to blame the unit above.

Also is a big RED FLAG when the HOA has not supposedly provided proper reports to an Owner they are assessing.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9136


03/09/2020 4:50 AM  
From what I read there was damage all in one day. There later was a plumbing issue on the 2nd floor at another point in time. I do agree the HOA should provide some more details and information. However, the OP has yet to reveal what the notification states. They just say they are being "harrassed" and "Threatened" with a lien when getting notified. We don't know notified of what exactly?

Former HOA President
JeffT2
(Iowa)

Posts:532


03/09/2020 9:27 AM  
Here is the way it works.

Texas state law (Uniform Condominium Act) requires the association to get insurance on the units. I doubt they can get insurance unless it has this coverage for the units. I am going to assume they have insurance on the two units below you.

However, the association's insurance probably has a large deductible, which is typically in the range of $2,500 to $10,000. They probably want you to pay the deductible.

Also, the association's insurance will not cover personal belongings that were damaged, such as clothing, rugs and furniture. The President may or may not want you to pay for that as well.

However, you may not owe them a dime.

In general, you do not have to pay for anything unless you actually did something wrong, in other words negligent. Even if your washer leaked down to the other floors, you do not have to pay for anything unless you were negligent. Did you know the washer was leaking and failed to correct the situation promptly? If so you are probably negligent. If not, then you are probably not negligent and do not owe them anything.

Can you describe the situation with the washer? What leaked, and when and how was it fixed? Did you know it was leaking and when?

Did you have a repairman fix your washer who can provide a report to the board?

Did you have insurance at the time of the leak?

I will try to post more later if I get the time.
MarkW18
(Florida)

Posts:748


03/09/2020 9:32 AM  
Posted By JeffT2 on 03/09/2020 9:27 AM
However, you may not owe them a dime.

In general, you do not have to pay for anything unless you actually did something wrong, in other words negligent.




SERIOUSLY?
JeffT2
(Iowa)

Posts:532


03/09/2020 9:54 AM  
Posted By MarkW18 on 03/09/2020 9:32 AM
Posted By JeffT2 on 03/09/2020 9:27 AM
However, you may not owe them a dime.

In general, you do not have to pay for anything unless you actually did something wrong, in other words negligent.




SERIOUSLY?



You seriously don't know this?

here is a quote from a California law firm. It is from the point of view of an association's liability, but also applies to a condo unit owner.https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Negligence-Defined
"Many homeowners mistakenly believe that their associations are strictly liable for any damage or loss they may suffer even if the HOA was not the cause of the loss. For example, a plumbing leak damages an owner's unit does not automatically make the association liable for the damage. The standard for HOA liability is negligence (unless the governing documents establish a different standard)."
MarkW18
(Florida)

Posts:748


03/09/2020 10:09 AM  
Know what?

The HOA's liability is generally going to be spelled out in the CCRs. If there is a roof leak and the HOA is responsible for the maintenance of the roof, then the HOA is obligated to repair. Has nothing to do with negligence. In addition, the leak may have caused damage into the unit. The CCRs don't outline that the HOA is responsible and the HOA insurance company did not insure against such damage. The homeowner will either take it up with their insurance company or pay themselves.

I have witnessed a community that didn't approve a special assessment to fix their roofs on three separate occasions. Does the negligence fall on the homeowners themselves?
RasmiaT1
(Texas)

Posts:11


03/09/2020 8:50 PM  
the first notes I received,
The headline of the notes- leak from the washing machine,
The association determined you are responsible for the following damage, according with section 82.111 of Texas property code. as such demand i hereby made for the payment of the Association expenses.
and the amount they requesting.the two unit have insurance. I didn't have insurance. the washer brook on Saturday evening at 8-30 and was fixed Monday.we had warranty and sears wasn't able to find any one to come during the weekend, as I said we didn't have any leak in our unit or ant repair, a part of the washing machine brook and was replace on Monday.the first floor did requested her $500 deductible the same of the incident before any repair was done, I asked her to send me her bill and if I am responsible I will take care of the bill, she never proved any bill, and I refused to pay her, she complain to her insurance
her insurance send me a letter requesting payment to be made to her, she told the insurance I refused to fixed the washing Machine and the Association find me guilty this all happen within a week from the incident.the most important thing she's the president of the HOA, when I sent the invoice to the insurance and prove of the letter from the Association Association never heard from the insurance again.the most impotent is the first floor is the president of the HOA. I don't know if she's acting on her self or what.
Insurance report= read per our interpretation of the declaration I have included the breakout of the Association responsibility and the owner responsibility, the Association bill almost double.
RasmiaT1
(Texas)

Posts:11


03/09/2020 9:02 PM  
I was reading my reply there is lot's of mistake on my writing. I am just very tired. Just got home after 10 Hours driving.sorry my apology and thanks's for all the support
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9136


03/09/2020 9:10 PM  
This is kind of hard to follow. Took a few attempts. So the 1st floor owner is the President of the HOA. They had damage and had to pay their insurance deductible of $500. It appears you asked them to send you this bill/proof. Some kind of interaction must have occurred leading them to revisit their insurance company. Which made you say you would not pay. Was it because they did not provide "proof"?

So maybe they went to the HOA's insurance as part of their claims. Which if that is the case, then yes the money can increase. A HOA's deductible is typically much HIGHER than an individual's insurance. Our deductible was closer to 20K for our HOA. Just to give you an idea of how high they can go.

Sounds like the HOA determined your washer caused the damage and wants paid back for their expenses. Now I am not sure what the part is that was repaired. Each part can cause different results. The question is: Was the water ever turned off at some point? Where you home at the time to have caught it or were you notified by the neighbors?

Are you still going to say that because the HOA didn't enforce you to have insurance that is why you don't have any?

Former HOA President
RasmiaT1
(Texas)

Posts:11


03/10/2020 6:09 PM  
The reason I am asking for proof is, the president of the HOA on the first floor sent a false complain to her insurance that I refused to fix the washing Machine and the Washing Machine is !5 years old and the Association find me responsible, I sent the technician repair and invoice and the year of the parches, her insurance investigate the incident and determined that was an accident and not negligence never heard from them again. according to the notes I received from the Board the meeting was held on November and her complain to the insurance was on September.
According to the By Law of the Association. If the owner request a hearing within the 30 days notes the hearing should be held to give the owner the chance to dispute the claim with the Association,
Email was sent three times requesting a hearing within the 30 days notes and I am still waiting for response. If they do place a lien how I would I know?
The other question is why the HOA paying deductible for the first floor, for the 2nd floor according to the Adjuster Assessment the charges is the owner responsibility VS the Association responsibility. no mention for deductible.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:9136


03/10/2020 7:25 PM  
They are paying the deductible so that you will pay them back. Your on the hook for atleast the deductible. It's called "damages". You may not be paying for the repairs themselves as the insurance did that. You are responsible for paying the money they had to spend out of their pocket on the deductible. They owed the right to become "whole".

The HOA has more power than an individual as it can lien for the amount owed. Which when you try to sell the house you will find it is on there. It's also to be published in a public resource like a newspaper etc... Ours are published in the Wednesday edition in the classified area called "Legal notices". Liens are usually not kept private. It's just knowing the right resources to see them.

The owners could have sued you instead for their deductible. They felt it was stronger to invoke a lien instead. This is another reason to have insurance...

Former HOA President
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