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Subject: Association Management Contract
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Author Messages
RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:65


02/07/2020 3:44 PM  
I am a dues paying member of a condo community in NC. I am a past member
of the BOD. My question is, do I have the right to look at the Management
Contract? While I was on the board I knew what was in the contract, but it
is changed every couple of years. My complaint is about our web page that is
not being kept up to date, but yet we are paying for same. Thanks for any
help.
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1540


02/07/2020 3:48 PM  
Why not just request what you need in terms of website updates? Do that first before attempting disruption.

AugustinD


Posts:3934


02/07/2020 4:09 PM  
-- Please quote exactly what your Bylaws and Declaration say on the subject of records inspection.


-- To which of the following statutes is your condominium subject?
Either:
North Carolina Unit Ownership Act - N.C.G.S. Chapter 47A - This Chapter applies to all condominiums created within the state of North Carolina before October 1, 1986.

or:
North Carolina Condominium Act - N.C.G.S. Chapter 47C - This Chapter applies to all condominiums created after October 1, 1986.
RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:65


02/07/2020 4:27 PM  
KellyM3 Thanks for your response, but your suggestion seems more like putting a bandaid rather than a cure.

AugustinD From our By-Laws (All records maintained by the association or by the manager shall be available
for examination and copying by any Unit home owner.) It goes on to list all the records that are kept for
the association, however contracts are not mentioned.
RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:65


02/07/2020 4:27 PM  
Forgot to mention that 47c is our bible.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3599


02/07/2020 7:58 PM  
Maybe you should consider volunteering to be the guy who updates the web site? Someone has to do it, why not you?
MarkW18


Posts:1290


02/07/2020 8:23 PM  
Posted By SteveM9 on 02/07/2020 7:58 PM
Maybe you should consider volunteering to be the guy who updates the web site? Someone has to do it, why not you?



GREAT SUGGESTION!
RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:65


02/08/2020 3:05 AM  
Maybe I came to the wrong place to ask a simple question!!!!
AugustinD


Posts:3934


02/08/2020 4:25 AM  
Posted By RichardD on 02/07/2020 4:27 PM
From our By-Laws (All records maintained by the association or by the manager shall be available for examination and copying by any Unit home owner.) It goes on to list all the records that are kept for the association, however contracts are not mentioned.
I see that North Carolina statute 47C-3-118. "Association records." states "All financial and other records, including records of
meetings of the association and executive board, shall be made reasonably available for
examination by any unit owner and the unit owner's authorized agents as required by the
bylaws and by Chapter 55A of the General Statutes if the association is a nonprofit corporation." Chapter 55A is the North Carolina Nonprofit corporation Act. The latter also does not speak of contracts. I do not see legal grounds for you to view the contract. Of course, you can always ask to see it. The HOA can always say no. If your board has open meetings where members are allowed to speak, then I would ask there about whether the management company's contract requires the manager to update the web site.


RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:65


02/08/2020 5:35 AM  
Thanks AugustinD sounds like good advice and probably the best answer to my question.

MarkW18


Posts:1290


02/08/2020 9:25 AM  
IF, the MC were contracted to update a web site, exactly where do they get the information to put up onto the website?
RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:65


02/08/2020 12:20 PM  
MarkW18
Maybe I've been misunderstood here. The web page is included as part of the management contract for the association.
As to how the MC knows what to post on the web page, they have a monthly finance report, they keep the minutes
of all meetings and therefore post those to the web page, the association calendar, newsletters, etc.

Since the webpage is an added expense for our MC contract, I am just interested in how much money we are
wasting on a webpage that is never updated.
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:349


02/10/2020 6:52 AM  
As a former board member, you must know that the manager/management company answers to the board.

So, start there. Ask the board "is web maintenance still in the contract, as it was when I was on the board". If they answer is yes, then say "well, I notice the site hasn't been updated since X."

Just being pragmatic.

RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:65


02/11/2020 3:29 AM  
BarbaraT1
I've tried that approach on 2 separate occasions to no avail.
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:349


02/11/2020 7:38 AM  
Posted By RichardD on 02/11/2020 3:29 AM
BarbaraT1
I've tried that approach on 2 separate occasions to no avail.




Well then, what do you expect to happen?

Even if you do get your hands on the contract, you, as an individual owner, are not in a position to enforce it. What do you think having the contract will do to bring about the resolution you want?

If the board isn't going to enforce the contract, you do not have any options here, other than wait until the next election cycle or try to force a recall election.
BarbaraT1
(Texas)

Posts:349


02/11/2020 7:43 AM  
Posted By RichardD on 02/08/2020 12:20 PM
MarkW18


Since the webpage is an added expense for our MC contract, I am just interested in how much money we are
wasting on a webpage that is never updated.




Again, to what purpose? So you can be mad about something in a highly specific way? So you can stand up at the annual meeting and say "It costs us $1.24 each year for a website that isn't updated!"

When you were on the board and saw the contract, was the cost of web page updating a separate line item? If it isn't, how do you plan to calculate the portion of the management fee that would, theoretically, be designated toward website management?

Look, I get that you're unhappy. I agree that management companies should do what they are contracted to do. I sympathize with your frustration that your elected representatives are not acting in your best interests. (BELIEVE ME, I understand that!).

But you are beating your head against a brick wall here.

IF the board doesn't care about the website being updated (which it appears they do not), you don't have a lot of options, other than learning to live with the unfortunate reality that the world is not fair and people often don't do the right thing.
AugustinD


Posts:3934


02/11/2020 8:09 AM  
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 02/11/2020 7:38 AM
Even if you do get your hands on the contract, you, as an individual owner, are not in a position to enforce it.
This is not so. If a board's failing to uphold the terms of a contract causes harm to the corporation, then corporate law long ago established that members/shareholders may file a derivative suit. If the OP feels strongly about this, then he could submit a series of demand letters over a few months. He could start off with a sugary polite version and end a few months later with a threat of a derivative suit.

A board's failing to ensure compliance with the terms of a contract is a serious breach of a board's fiduciary duty. For over 150 years in the United States, the courts have bestowed upon member/shareholders the right to file a derivative suit to stop a corporate board when it is hurting a corporation. I would never pay such short shrift to this reality.
AugustinD


Posts:3934


02/11/2020 8:20 AM  
Posted By RichardD on 02/07/2020 4:27 PM
From our By-Laws (All records maintained by the association or by the manager shall be available
for examination and copying by any Unit home owner.) It goes on to list all the records that are kept for the association, however contracts are not mentioned.
On further reflection: Can you quote the bylaw on this verbatim?
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3465


02/11/2020 10:42 AM  
Posted By RichardD on 02/08/2020 3:05 AM
Maybe I came to the wrong place to ask a simple question!!!!




Not necessarily. I don’t know about anyone else, but I find people often start asking about legal this and that when the question has a relatively simple answer that doesn’t require all that. By the way, if you're a former board member, shouldn't you already know what homeowners have a right to see regarding association documents?

In this case, I suspect you do have a right to review the management contract, but based on what you’ve written in response to other posters, you’re assuming the management company isn’t updating the website and just collecting the money. So humor me – have you even asked the board about this, and if so, what did they say?

This is a community website, so I would assume nothing gets posted there without board authorization. Is it just possible there’s a communication breakdown in getting the information to the right person? Has there been a disagreement as to how the website should be updated, so it hasn’t happened? By the way, how long has this been going on – if longer than 3 months, I would agree someone should look into this, but if it’s been only a month or two, seems to me you’re getting way upset that should be easy to fix.

You didn’t say how you contacted the board previously about this – if you haven’t received a response to an email or letter, why not attend the next board meeting and ask them in person. That way, they can’t blow you off – maybe you’ll find your previous correspondence got misplaced. (Which is also something the board needs to fix and shouldn’t take all day to do.)

And what’s wrong with MarkW18’s and SteveM9’s suggestion that you offer to update the website? If you don’t know how, perhaps you can volunteer to be the contact between the board and whoever updates the website at the management company. The board gives you the information, you forward it to that person, who should tell you how long it will take (e.g. 3-5 days), then you check the website at that site to ensure the updates were done and are accurate. That shouldn’t take very much of your time and the work gets done.
RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:65


02/11/2020 4:37 PM  
Again let me try to clarify a few points.
1) Its been several years since I was on the board. Our management company contract
was with another company and we did not have a web page.
2) The current MC contract includes (as an added expense) a web page.
3) My expectation was that by asking a simple question on this forum, I
could get an answer. I do not know the answer, that's why I have asked.
4) From my experience with boards I do know that they are responsible for
ensuring that all contracts are strictly enforced. I do not know
what the specs are for the website, but I feel fairly certain keeping it
up to date would be required.
5) My reason for viewing the contract was to ascertain that this was being done.
6) As I said earlier, I have questioned the board and MC on 2 different
occasions but got no response. If I can view the contract and find
that it does include keeping the webpage up to date, then I could proceed
with other actions. Not only the webpage is at issue but financials, minutes,etc
are also not being kept up to date.

BarbaraT1

Again, to what purpose? So you can be mad about something in a highly specific way? So you can stand up at the annual meeting and say "It costs us $1.24 each year for a website that isn't updated!"

I resent your nasty insinuations that I'm mad and don't need to bash
my head against a brick wall. If you can't offer anything positive
then just refrain from posting at all.

SheliaH
(Indiana)


Not necessarily. I don’t know about anyone else, but I find people often start asking about legal this and that when the question has a relatively simple answer that doesn’t require all that. By the way, if you're a former board member, shouldn't you already know what homeowners have a right to see regarding association documents?

As I've already mentioned, our by-laws cover what the unit owners can see.
Practically everything is listed except contracts. That was the reason
for my question. To your other question, a year + of random updating.
Currently the latest Finance report is 31 August. Last Minutes is July.
And finally I don't feel obligated to do the updating as long as we're
paying the MC to do it.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:3465


02/12/2020 4:50 AM  
You know, you seem a wee hostile to some of the responses you're received. You're entitled to your own opinion, of course, and can take some, none or all of our suggestions if you want. That said, if you went to the board or property manager with a honked off attitude, that could explain why you haven't received a response. There ARE other issues board members need to be concerned about and they do have a life outside the association. The property manager may have other clients in addition to your community - doesn't mean he or she shouldn't stay on top of whatever the company's being paid to do, but if the BOARD isn't telling providing the updated information, what else do you suggest? Do you really want the property manager to wing it and put whatever on the website just so there'll be new information and he or she can justify the expense?


If you're not getting anywhere by yourself, why not ask a few of your neighbors if they've noticed the problem and are just as annoyed as you are - all of you can attend the next meeting and speak your piece. It may be the board isn't taking it seriously because it's just you, but it's harder to blow off a group of people. Take some screenshots of the pages, make some copies and show it to the board - it's one thing to yap about it, but actually seeing what you're concerned about can make a difference.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9900


02/12/2020 8:22 AM  
It appears Richard has more issue with his BOD and MC than just an outdated web page.
PaulJ6


Posts:0


02/12/2020 8:44 AM  
Posted By RichardD on 02/07/2020 3:44 PM
I am a dues paying member of a condo community in NC. I am a past member
of the BOD. My question is, do I have the right to look at the Management
Contract? While I was on the board I knew what was in the contract, but it
is changed every couple of years. My complaint is about our web page that is
not being kept up to date, but yet we are paying for same. Thanks for any
help.




You don't.

RichardD
(North Carolina)

Posts:65


02/12/2020 12:01 PM  
PaulJ6
(New York)

Thanks PaulJ6, that's a simple answer to my original simple question.

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