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Subject: How to deal with the legal fee for not paying HOA fee enough, but it is because didn't receive the notice
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Author Messages
CD6
(Texas)

Posts:29


03/16/2020 8:21 AM  
Posted By CathyA3 on 12/30/2019 9:51 AM


"One thing that bothers me is that the OP says that she has not received notices of the increased assessments or late fees or any hearings, etc. Either the HOA is run by overly aggressive incompetents... or they truly don't have valid contact information for her.

I wouldn't want to show up in court with my spreadsheets and whatnot, only to discover that the HOA has a pile of returned mail demonstrating that they have followed correct procedures to the letter."

If an owner moves and does not update their new address with the HOA, they have no choice but to continue to send a monthly statement and all correspondence to the last known address on file.
After a bill is over 60 days, statements and letters are sent Certified Mail, return receipt requested and file those when returned or refused in the safe.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2770


03/16/2020 10:19 AM  
I’m thinking the Paid in Full idea is likely to be pierced by any competent attorney.

Especially if it is being “gamed.”
PaulJ6
(New York)

Posts:929


03/16/2020 10:22 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 03/16/2020 7:34 AM
Posted By PaulJ6 on 03/16/2020 2:45 AM
OP, why wouldn’t you write “Paid in Full” on the memo line and back of one of your checks now and try to do an “accord and satisfaction” that way?
Ha ha, yes, I agree. (When PaulJ6 first mentioned this, I read up on it. I agree it shows promise.)




Thanks. I've successfully done an accord and satisfaction against a HOA--while the HOA was represented by counsel that was very focused on the amount in dispute.

Under many states' laws, the HOA will have 90 days to refund the amount paid by check (if the check is marked "paid in full" or the like), which invalidates the accord and satisfaction, FYI. In my situation, the HOA did not do so; it accepted the check and didn't refund it, even though its lawyer was well aware of my doing an accord and satisfaction.
AugustinD


Posts:3461


03/16/2020 10:34 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 03/16/2020 10:19 AM
I’m thinking the Paid in Full idea is likely to be pierced by any competent attorney. Especially if it is being “gamed.”
Considering the nonsense this HOA and collections company is pulling, I encourage LeanneM1 to use every legal trick in the book to throw their sh-t back at them.
AugustinD


Posts:3461


03/16/2020 10:51 AM  
Some citations on this "paid in full" maneuver:

Under the laws of some states, if you cash a check marked “paid in full” or with other similar language, or if you cash a check sent with a letter stating that the payment was in full satisfaction of the debt, you might be prohibited from collecting any additional money, even if you are really owed more.
-- https://mylawyersllp.com/paid-full-accord-satisfaction/

http://www.blakeleyllp.com/content/2011/04/29/cashing-check-may-not-be-accord-and-satisfaction/

https://www.sussmanshank.com/accord-and-satisfaction-executory-accord-and-substituted-contract

I cannot pull up anything that is quite on point in Maryland at the moment.

PaulJ6
(New York)

Posts:929


03/16/2020 11:02 AM  
Posted By AugustinD on 03/16/2020 10:51 AM
Some citations on this "paid in full" maneuver:

Under the laws of some states, if you cash a check marked “paid in full” or with other similar language, or if you cash a check sent with a letter stating that the payment was in full satisfaction of the debt, you might be prohibited from collecting any additional money, even if you are really owed more.
-- https://mylawyersllp.com/paid-full-accord-satisfaction/

http://www.blakeleyllp.com/content/2011/04/29/cashing-check-may-not-be-accord-and-satisfaction/

https://www.sussmanshank.com/accord-and-satisfaction-executory-accord-and-substituted-contract

I cannot pull up anything that is quite on point in Maryland at the moment.





Correct. I neglected to mention that state law may also require that you (original poster) make it clear to that HOA, or its agent, that you dispute part of the debt that is allegedly owed. But AugustinD's citations cover that.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:2770


03/16/2020 11:28 AM  
Everyone is still debating - read back through - I’m still convinced there is so much more to this.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3857


03/17/2020 1:53 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 03/16/2020 11:28 AM
Everyone is still debating - read back through - I’m still convinced there is so much more to this.

As am I. I think the OP has presented a one-sded view and interpretation of what has actually taken place.

As for a "Paid In Full" accord & satisfaction, it probably wouldn't fly in Florida. As per FS 720.3085(3)(b)...

"Any payment received by an association and accepted shall be applied first to any interest accrued, then to any administrative late fee, then to any costs and reasonable attorney fees incurred in collection, and then to the delinquent assessment. This paragraph applies notwithstanding any restrictive endorsement, designation, or instruction placed on or accompanying a payment."
PaulJ6
(New York)

Posts:929


03/17/2020 2:13 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 03/17/2020 1:53 PM
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 03/16/2020 11:28 AM
Everyone is still debating - read back through - I’m still convinced there is so much more to this.

As am I. I think the OP has presented a one-sded view and interpretation of what has actually taken place.

As for a "Paid In Full" accord & satisfaction, it probably wouldn't fly in Florida. As per FS 720.3085(3)(b)...

"Any payment received by an association and accepted shall be applied first to any interest accrued, then to any administrative late fee, then to any costs and reasonable attorney fees incurred in collection, and then to the delinquent assessment. This paragraph applies notwithstanding any restrictive endorsement, designation, or instruction placed on or accompanying a payment."




I looked into this, and you're right, for accord and satisfaction in connection with condo associations, as the legislature changed the law to block accord and satisfaction for condo association. Accord and satisfaction may also be banned in Florida for HOAs. Rats.
LeanneM1
(Maryland)

Posts:36


05/19/2020 12:56 PM  
Dear all,
New update on my case as below:
Since I have sent HOA fee on the end of Jan for Feb to Apr (3 months) via handwriting checks mailed to the HOA office, and I sent email and told them I have sent 6 checks what I should pay no matter you accept or not, I attached the copy of total 6 checks (3 checks for each condo). And I mentioned that I would not pay you the fee that you have refused before again. At the same time, I post my experience on BBB and google, etc.

After about 20 days, I believe that they got the BBB and google bad evaluations, the attorney sent me email back that they decided to accept those 4 checks (I mailed 6). I didn't argue with him because I have scanned every 3 checks in one picture and pasted them in my previous email. They are obviously 6 checks in total, so I didn't want to correct it.

Then, nothing happened but COVID-19 (I hope everyone doing well during this challenging time).

On the end of Apr, I mailed another 6 handwriting checks for May to Jul (3 months) HOA fee with "PAID IN FULL" on every check face.

First, they charged the previous 2 checks which I mailed on the end of Jan, and then they charged all these 6 checks and didn't mention why those were written with "PAID IN FULL".

I am sure they will accept my future checks, but I don't know how to check that if they have put lien on my condos. If they did have put the lien, how I remove them, or if is the only way to sue them to remove the lien?

Thank you everyone for giving me support or paying attention on my case.
Sincerely,
Leanne
LeanneM1
(Maryland)

Posts:36


05/19/2020 1:35 PM  
What else?

The only thing is HOA didn't send me the notices and bills which made me have no opportunities to change my auto payment via online bank system for more than 1.5 years, because I lived in a single house which doesn't have HOA so I have no idea about the HOA fee adjustment.

Then HOA asked the collection company to send me a bill with extra fees. Even I paid all the previous gap because of the HOA increasing (no more than $400 each condo) when I received the collection letter. However, my payments were returned several times. They only wanted to charge me the extra part other than HOA.

After the help from this forum, I started to do the right action. I started to read the policy word by word and collected the evidence.

Let me tell you something else: I have found out the email that have been sent to the HOA office about the mailing address just after I bought the condo.

What else do you want??

I don't like your prejudices. You're just making trouble.

This issue makes me understand why HOA and their lawyers are so aggressive, because most homeowners don't have the time or knowledge to tangle with a seemingly professional lawyer. So HOA and their lawyers continue to use this method to bully home owners. They can get money easily. Why not?

I hope the HOA board and managers in the forum are genuinely helping the owners and the community, as you said in your campaign, but not taking this opportunity to bully the owners.
LeanneM1
(Maryland)

Posts:36


05/19/2020 1:35 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 03/16/2020 11:28 AM
Everyone is still debating - read back through - I’m still convinced there is so much more to this.




What else?

The only thing is HOA didn't send me the notices and bills which made me have no opportunities to change my auto payment via online bank system for more than 1.5 years, because I lived in a single house which doesn't have HOA so I have no idea about the HOA fee adjustment.

Then HOA asked the collection company to send me a bill with extra fees. Even I paid all the previous gap because of the HOA increasing (no more than $400 each condo) when I received the collection letter. However, my payments were returned several times. They only wanted to charge me the extra part other than HOA.

After the help from this forum, I started to do the right action. I started to read the policy word by word and collected the evidence.

Let me tell you something else: I have found out the email that have been sent to the HOA office about the mailing address just after I bought the condo.

What else do you want??

I don't like your prejudices. You're just making trouble.

This issue makes me understand why HOA and their lawyers are so aggressive, because most homeowners don't have the time or knowledge to tangle with a seemingly professional lawyer. So HOA and their lawyers continue to use this method to bully home owners. They can get money easily. Why not?

I hope the HOA board and managers in the forum are genuinely helping the owners and the community, as you said in your campaign, but not taking this opportunity to bully the owners.
AugustinD


Posts:3461


05/19/2020 6:23 PM  
Posted By LeanneM1 on 05/19/2020 12:56 PM
I don't know how to check that if they have put lien on my condos. If they did have put the lien, how I remove them, or if is the only way to sue them to remove the lien?
Call the County Clerk. Tell the County Clerk staff that you want to see if there is a lien on either of your two homes. The staff should give you directions. If a lien is on either of your homes, then please report back here.

Ordinarily HOAs give a lot of notice before they put a lien on a HOA member's home.

Thank you for the update.
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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > How to deal with the legal fee for not paying HOA fee enough, but it is because didn't receive the notice



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