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Subject: HOA Board + Management Co. wantonly violate Bylaws, CC&Rs and State Law
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TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 11:42 AM  
Hello, I am new here...and I did not know such forums existed until now.

I have my HOA Board of directors scrambling because I've been constantly riding them to follow the governing documents and the law for the past 17+ years.

Things came to a head at the last board meeting when I brought a digital voice recorder. At the onset of the meeting the management company rep asked if I was going to record, said yes, then she advised what few board members there to vote on allowing it. I immediately put a stop to that advising them that state law establishes my right to record said meeting. Her retort was that the Robert's Rule of Order allow the board to vote on it. Told her no, those rules are guidelines for the board on conducting the meeting, they do not supersede state. The board members already irritated with me (because I've forced them to follow the governing documents and the law one time too many for them over the past 17 years) wanted to argue and I simply asked them to cite the authority that trumps state law. They could not so they arbitrarily cancelled the meeting, thereby closing the meeting denying the other homeowners present an opportunity to participate, claiming they were going to reconvene in executive session to meet with an attorney without providing what date/meeting that would be.

This past weekend, just days before the scheduled annual meeting, we received a post card advising that that annual meeting was cancelled and postponed to July. Our Bylaws specifically state that the annual meeting [shall] be in the months of either May or June. Also in that notice we were advised that the regular June meeting will go immediately into executive session for 45 minutes before continuing with the regular meeting. This too is in violation of state law that specifically states that at a meeting the presiding member of the board needs to make a motion to go into executive session and give a general description of the action to be taken and when the minutes of that meeting will be made available to the homeowners.

I have documented all the violations of our HOA here: http://okhawatchdog.blogspot.com/ and here: https://www.facebook.com/oakknollhoa.watchdog/

I recently enlisted the help of our county mediation council, and the management company gave the typical reply that they would need to consult the board members and HOA attorney before answering whether or not they will participate in mediation.

Our President flat out lied and contradicted a written statement in a November 2014 newsletter that their long standing misinterpretation of what the common improvements are regarding the street trees would no longer be an issue going forward, and that no street trees would be maintained by the association. Our CC&Rs state EVERY street tree on EVERY Lot is a common improvement, but the past boards took it upon themselves to interpret the CC&Rs as they wanted it to read and not what it actually read to maintain street trees along Foothills Drive only, to the benefit of those homeowners only, yet at the cost/expense of every homeowner (which, as you could guess, also is in violation of state law under our Planned Community Act).

This street tree issue was put to rest, but another homeowner irritated by my success joined the board, again (he resigned years before), and first on his item/agenda was putting the Foothills Drive street trees back into the HOA budget. They created an unreasonable resolution that essentially redefined what street trees are, change the language of the CC&Rs and called it good. This is unenforceable since such an act requires an amendment to the CC&Rs, which the Board knows because they tried in 2011 and it FAILED at the meeting. They don't care to follow the law or the CC&Rs that clearly stipulate that a vote of 75% or more of the homeowners is required to make any amendment to the CC&Rs.

So to keep this long story short...our HOA Board of Directors are out of control, supported by an inept management company and ineffective counsel working for the so-called premiere law firm on HOA matters in our state.

At this point waiting to hear back from mediation as to whether or not they will agree to it; if not, great, I already have a legal complaint in the works.

Thoughts? Feedback?

Thank you!
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


05/18/2016 12:18 PM  
Welcome to this forum. We are a bit different than most HOA forums. We believe in education and providing guidance than wollering in the "pain". With that said, we also are pretty upfront and honest. Please don't be offended by this BUT... No one likes a "Know it all". I don't mean this in a bad way. It's meant in regards to your approach to your board. It's kind of off putting and doesn't really help your point.

Here is a suggestion... Make it a policy that a problem is not brought up unless there is a solution. Have a solution in mind that can be compromised and satsisfactory to a large group. Don't go throwing down one's throat "It's the law". Simply explain that you want to record the meeting because you want to review them or later for personal use. Then allow them to vote on this being allowed. They aren't doing anything wrong because they say "no" and it's against the state laws. Give them an opportunity to do the research to reach an educated decision. Just telling someone it's the law without being able to consult or research is a bit jumping the gun. The processs is slow in government and large groups.

I annoy people with this piece of advice. However, you need to know it if you plan on legal actions. Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neigbhors. It is a CONSEQUENCE of taking such actions. Right or Wrong, it is still a FACT. Not saying you do not have a point or are right. It's just you need to look beyond the surface and into the cause/effects of the situation beyond your touch. The HOA is set up in their CC&R's to avoid and resolve such conflicts without legal interference. Robert's Rules is an additional meeting process your HOA seems to employ to also help deal with issues.

Are you willing to be on the board? If not, then be supportive of your board or recall of them. That's your choice. The view is different in the inside than out. Get a bit more understanding of that other view from the table before going all "KIA". You may find yourself able to get things corrected if given a chance.

Former HOA President
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


05/18/2016 12:41 PM  
Welcome Troy.

Not sure what you're looking for.

People who use words like "wantonly" usually come here to rant, but don't hang around that long.

Many of the posters here have gone through the long and difficult process of getting elected to the board because they are frustrated with current mismanagement. One board vote doesn't do much, so it usually takes a couple of cycles to change the composition of the board in any significant way. It can take years to get things turned around.

My big questions for you are:

1. How many units in your HOA?

2. How many of them would vote for you if you ran for a board seat?

Also, unclear to me whether mediation would be a worthwhile path for you and your HOA. Mediation involves reaching a mutually agreeable voluntary solution - Don't get the impression that's going to happen.

When there are financial disputes, I generally like to know what the actual numbers are before I comment. There are situations when principal trumps finances, and sometimes it's the other way around. But the numbers are always important.






Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 12:47 PM  
"Please don't be offended by this BUT... No one likes a "Know it all". I don't mean this in a bad way. It's meant in regards to your approach to your board. It's kind of off putting and doesn't really help your point."

No offense taken, and thank you for your candor.

On your "know it all" point/perspective, honestly I find that to be a cop-out across the board. It also goes so well with the Board of Directors primary cop-out whenever questioned by a homeowner, "we're just volunteers." Also, HOAs depend on homeowners not knowing much if anything at all where their rights are concerned regarding the Bylaws, CC&Rs, and state law. That is why there is a plethora of information online of people complaining about, and law suits against their HOA/Board of Directors.

It only seem logical and necessary that there be at least one (or more) "know it all" individuals in order to protect not only their individual rights, but the other fellow homeowners rights as well. If I did not do what I have done over the past 17 years setting my HOA straight, today it would be a totalitarian run HOA. If being a "know it all" keeps them in check, I would take that as a compliment of my accomplishments getting the HOA to follow the law when they do not want to.

"Simply explain that you want to record the meeting because you want to review them or later for personal use."

As a matter of fact, I did just that but it wasn't enough for them. They simply did not want the meeting recorded.

"Then allow them to vote on this being allowed."

Why? They have no right/authority to such a vote. I am not about to set any precedence that they can claim a right to that they have no right to.

"They aren't doing anything wrong because they say "no"..."

Yes, they are.

"Give them an opportunity to do the research to reach an educated decision."

They have a month in-between meetings to do all the research they want, but it makes no difference. This particular group on the Board think they have the "right" to interpret the CC&Rs and Bylaws as they see fit (i.e. read into it what they want it to say, not what it actually says), and that their decisions are gospel while homeowners are flat out wrong.

"Just telling someone it's the law without being able to consult or research is a bit jumping the gun."

Not really, not with this group. I've had enough correspondence with the Board and attorneys that they have the resources readily at their disposal...they just do not know how to do it without the attorney holding their collective hands. Even then, the advice they get is often times wrong.

"I annoy people with this piece of advice. However, you need to know it if you plan on legal actions. Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neigbhors. It is a CONSEQUENCE of taking such actions. Right or Wrong, it is still a FACT."

Yes, thank you, that is obvious. I've also toyed with the idea of letting the DOJ, HUD, et al do it for me given the countless violations committed by our HOA.

"Are you willing to be on the board?"

No. It would be counter productive (i.e. banging my head against a wall), since none of the other members are qualified to even be on the board, nor are they reasonable and open-minded.

"If not, then be supportive of your board or recall of them. That's your choice."

Why would I (or anyone) support our board when they are corrupt on so many levels? Recall them? Pointless...pull one weed and two more grow in its place. As of late the general feedback I have been getting from fellow owners is getting the 75% vote of homeowners to terminate our CC&Rs, thereby getting rid of our collective problem...the inept "volunteer" Board of Directors, management company and attorney(s).

"The view is different in the inside than out. Get a bit more understanding of that other view from the table before going all "KIA". You may find yourself able to get things corrected if given a chance."

I've given them plenty of chances over the past 17 years and they have NEVER learned, not once, from their mistakes. They just repeat them and I am all over them for it.

Our previous management company resigned from our HOA precisely because of our Board being as inept, stubborn, and ignorant as they have been for so long.

TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 12:55 PM  
"Not sure what you're looking for."

Thoughts and feedback.

"People who use words like "wantonly" usually come here to rant, but don't hang around that long. "

Please do not get hung up on semantics, it would be counter productive to a healthy, productive discussion. And I will be around a long time, I do not give up easily when it comes to defending myself and others who are not equipped to defend themselves in our collective problem.

"My big questions for you are:

1. How many units in your HOA?

2. How many of them would vote for you if you ran for a board seat?"


198 homes/lots; and I am sure a majority, to include current board members and the management company would vote for me to be on the board. No interest.

"Also, unclear to me whether mediation would be a worthwhile path for you and your HOA. Mediation involves reaching a mutually agreeable voluntary solution - Don't get the impression that's going to happen."

I have to go to mediation before filing a lawsuit, state statute requires it.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


05/18/2016 1:05 PM  
Thanks for your response. Would still like to hear from you on the items you missed:

Posted By NpS on 05/18/2016 12:41 PM
Many of the posters here have gone through the long and difficult process of getting elected to the board because they are frustrated with current mismanagement. One board vote doesn't do much, so it usually takes a couple of cycles to change the composition of the board in any significant way. It can take years to get things turned around.

Even though you aren't interested, is there anyone in your association who supports your views and would be willing to step up to the plate?

Posted By NpS on 05/18/2016 12:41 PM
When there are financial disputes, I generally like to know what the actual numbers are before I comment. There are situations when principal trumps finances, and sometimes it's the other way around. But the numbers are always important.

How many dollars involved in maintaining some trees? All trees?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
RichardP13


Posts:0


05/18/2016 1:13 PM  
Troy

"If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself".

Myself, and I have to assume some others have been in the same predicament. No one here is going to be able to tell you what to do. Only you will be able to make the changes you desire. If you have no interest, then get others that you can recruit to do it for you.

Most associations are mini-governments with no state or local oversight. They may have statues and rules, BUT, who is going to enforce them?

The way I see it, you have three choices, get along, fight, or move.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 1:39 PM  
"Even though you aren't interested, is there anyone in your association who supports your views and would be willing to step up to the plate?"

After 17 years of problems, no one is interested; everyone pretty much wants to terminate the CC&Rs and get rid of the HOA Board altogether.

"How many dollars involved in maintaining some trees? All trees?"

198 homes, 3 to 6 trees on each lot, arborist expense per year would be astronomical.

At one meeting where we were talking about just 50-60 trees along Foothills Drive, one homeowners who happened to be an arborist said it would cost 5-7k a year to maintain (prune, etc.).

Foe the HOA to maintain, repair, replace all trees on all Lots (as the CC&Rs state it is supposed to do), would push our annual dues to $500-750 a year, if not more.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 1:48 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/18/2016 1:13 PM
Troy

"If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself".

Myself, and I have to assume some others have been in the same predicament. No one here is going to be able to tell you what to do. Only you will be able to make the changes you desire. If you have no interest, then get others that you can recruit to do it for you.

Most associations are mini-governments with no state or local oversight. They may have statues and rules, BUT, who is going to enforce them?

The way I see it, you have three choices, get along, fight, or move.




I have had several offers for assistance to go door to door to get votes to terminate the CC&Rs, that will be in the works soon.

The court can force an HOA to follow the governing documents and state statute. Hence the need to file the lawsuit to get that declaratory judgment to do just that.

17 years of repeated failures, debating with their attorneys and proving them wrong only to have them quietly agree with my position and finally implement them has been 1 year long.

And the latest act, the street tree resolution that fundamentally changes the terms and conditions of the CC&Rs without putting it to the required vote of the homeowners on the matter is one of three resolutions that just proves to us homeowners that our board of directors are out of control and have decided to deny hearing any reason from any homeowner, to include myself.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


05/18/2016 2:11 PM  
The board members not qualified? What makes them Qualified or not? The only requirement is to be a homeowner and possibly in good standing. Which is just a member that is up to date on dues. There's NO such thing as job requirements. So your standards may just be set up too high.

Yes, it can take months for a HOA to make a decision. The process works that way. It's NOT on your timeline. First, you bring the subject up on 1st meeting. The second meeting they are to discuss the issue and decide what research/approach to take. The 3rd meeting the actual decision may be officially made. Theory wise, it could take 6 months to change a light bulb if procedures were followed to an exact "T". So you have to let the process work or it will work against you.

Stop being a backseat driver of your board. If you are so interested or offended by your board, then get ON it! Otherwise, your a squeaky wheel and provide no benefit to your HOA. You only benefit your HOA and those around you when you make the effort. Blaming things on "That group of people" is a cop out. Make those people your group or get another group.

Your on a forum of which most of us didn't just address our board we got on it. No excuses. My HOA was a nightmare with a crook at the helm. Got him out of office and created a new group of people. Turned the place around and did everything by the book. Not by the crook.

BTW: You want to report your HOA to someone? What do you think the result would be? Your part of the HOA... That means whatever action those people you reported stuff to, will bring it to your door too. Your NOT an innoncent member. You ARE a member. Act like one not act upon one...

Former HOA President
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


05/18/2016 2:28 PM  
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/18/2016 1:39 PM
everyone pretty much wants to terminate the CC&Rs and get rid of the HOA Board altogether.

I'm sure that "everyone pretty much" is more than the statutory percentage required to shut things down. Good luck with it.

BTW, I think that my original assessment about how long you're likely hang around here is probably accurate.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 2:32 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/18/2016 2:11 PM
The board members not qualified? What makes them Qualified or not? The only requirement is to be a homeowner and possibly in good standing. Which is just a member that is up to date on dues. There's NO such thing as job requirements. So your standards may just be set up too high.




ORS 94.639 Criteria for board of directors membership. (1) Each member of the board of directors must be an individual and, except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, an owner or co-owner of a lot in the planned community.

(3)(a) Except as otherwise provided in the bylaws, prior to election to the board of directors, an individual described in this subsection shall, upon request of the board, provide the board with documentation satisfactory to the board that the individual is qualified to represent the entity or is a trustee or is serving in a fiduciary capacity for the owner of a lot.


My standards are not too high, they are the same as statute cited above. There is a standard by which all board members should meet to be "qualified" to represent the HOA; and merely being a homeowner, paying your dues and willing to "volunteer" is not enough of a qualification.


Yes, it can take months for a HOA to make a decision. The process works that way. It's NOT on your timeline. First, you bring the subject up on 1st meeting. The second meeting they are to discuss the issue and decide what research/approach to take. The 3rd meeting the actual decision may be officially made. Theory wise, it could take 6 months to change a light bulb if procedures were followed to an exact "T". So you have to let the process work or it will work against you.




Thanks, yes, the decision process/timeline is obvious. The manner in which my HOA/Board operates is always against us, and it has been for the past 17+ years regardless of who has been on the board.


Stop being a backseat driver of your board. If you are so interested or offended by your board, then get ON it! Otherwise, your a squeaky wheel and provide no benefit to your HOA. You only benefit your HOA and those around you when you make the effort. Blaming things on "That group of people" is a cop out. Make those people your group or get another group.




Backseat driver? I provide no benefit to my HOA. Rather patronizing/condescending comments there when you clearly have not paid any attention to my OP, nor clearly did you look at my blog or Facebook page that accurately chronicles all the problems the board has caused us and the corrections I forced them to make by realizing they were wrong and violating the governing documents and law in doing so. That, by definition, is a direct benefit to the HOA by ensuring they are in compliance with the law.

And blaming the board of directors for the HOA's problems is a fact, not a cop-out. Yet another patronizing/condescending remark on your part. It is that kind of attitude we get from some of the board members when they are questioned and clearly do not like being questioned.


BTW: You want to report your HOA to someone? What do you think the result would be? Your part of the HOA... That means whatever action those people you reported stuff to, will bring it to your door too. Your NOT an innoncent member. You ARE a member. Act like one not act upon one...




More patronizing/condescending commentary. Is this how you typically welcome new people to this forum?

I know exactly who I am reporting the HOA to, and I know what the exact results will be.

And no, what I report will NOT bring it to my door, and I am innocent as are all the other homeowners subjugated to the illicit and illegal activities of the HOA/Board members.

Thank you for your reply, Melissa, but your input is counter productive and unhelpful towards the thoughts and feedback I was hoping to get by joining and presenting my OP for discussion.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 2:47 PM  
Posted By NpS on 05/18/2016 2:28 PM

BTW, I think that my original assessment about how long you're likely hang around here is probably accurate.




Time will tell...
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


05/18/2016 3:12 PM  
Another hero has joined the forces... If your such the person you say you are in forcing the board to bow to the law and your suggestions, then why aren't you on the board again? Seriously. If you so into wanting change then put yourself in the position to do so not by yelling at the players on the field...

You can find my comments condescending or insultful. However, not going to bow down to your passive aggressive behavior. Which I am calling out on you. You want something but you want someone else to do it. You don't get the concept of what an HOA is. It is YOU and your neighbors. It's NOT "Those group of people". You all elected that group of people from amongst yourselves. Getting rid of your CC&R's doesn't get rid of your HOA.

Go ahead and not like the fact that the ONLY qualification for being a board member is to be a homeowner with the option of being in good standing in some HOAs. What are your qualifications then? Do you not even meet your own qualifications your putting on your board you want to have? Seems need to take a look at yourself to see what you really bring to the table besides "The law". Which quite frankly is annoying if not given the chance to discuss and make an informed decision per your timeline and perception.

Sorry, but I find posters here who bark at their board and gnarl their teeth, don't seem to get the concept they are part of the pack. My advice still stands to stop calling the board "Those people" and get on your board. Otherwise, get out of the way. No one is stopping you from being a board member if you can gather the votes and are a homeowner.

Former HOA President
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 3:36 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/18/2016 3:12 PM
Another hero has joined the forces... If your such the person you say you are in forcing the board to bow to the law and your suggestions, then why aren't you on the board again? Seriously. If you so into wanting change then put yourself in the position to do so not by yelling at the players on the field...




If you have to ask that first question, then clearly you just do not "get it."

Let me spell it out for you, if there are 6 board members who are on the same elevator stuck on floor 4 while you are in the Penthouse...all you're going to do is bang your head on the wall trying to free the stuck elevator in order to get it to your floor. It is akin to beating a dead horse. That is why I will not nor ever will be on the board; and it is the EXACT reason a former board member resigned and reached out to me for help and assistance in dealing with the remaining board members.

You can find my comments condescending or insultful. However, not going to bow down to your passive aggressive behavior. Which I am calling out on you. You want something but you want someone else to do it. You don't get the concept of what an HOA is. It is YOU and your neighbors. It's NOT "Those group of people". You all elected that group of people from amongst yourselves. Getting rid of your CC&R's doesn't get rid of your HOA.




What part of my OP and subsequent comments did you FAIL to comprehend where I made it crystal clear that I and I alone have been doing everything to fight our HOA, successfully to date, in getting them to follow the governing documents and the law. I do not want someone else to do anything, in fact, people have been emailing and commenting on my FB VOLUNTEERING to help me.

I understand perfectly well what an HOA is and what it is NOT! And based on your comments thus far, it is patently clear I understand it and its function far better than you.

The HOA is a non-profit corporation set up by the Board of Directors, it is NOT me and my neighbors. And it most certainly is "Those group of people" (sic).

And getting rid of the CC&Rs does get rid of the HOA.

Passive aggressive behavior, and where did you matriculate from to get your psychology degree?

Go ahead and not like the fact that the ONLY qualification for being a board member is to be a homeowner with the option of being in good standing in some HOAs. What are your qualifications then? Do you not even meet your own qualifications your putting on your board you want to have? Seems need to take a look at yourself to see what you really bring to the table besides "The law". Which quite frankly is annoying if not given the chance to discuss and make an informed decision per your timeline and perception.




What part of the ORS that I cited did you FAIL to comprehend. More proof that it is to you who lacks a clear knowledge and comprehension of what an HOA is and the qualifications of board membership.

I never voted for any of the "volunteers" on our Board, and I doubt many who side with me did either. It is to the few ignorant homeowners, likely neighbors of the current members, who keep voting them in; or worse, there were not enough votes for any one homeowner to replace any of them. Point of FACT, our current President has been in his position for over 10 years. The same guy who wrote a former board of directors, before he was President, accusing them of running the HOA like Nazis.

Since when is following the law annoying? Tell that to some of my fellow homeowners slapped with violation after BS unsubstantiated violation with excessive fees attached to it. I am sure they would like the HOA to follow the law and stop harassing them with what is tantamount to extortion and blackmail with threats of a lien and foreclosure on their home.

Some people are simply not receptive to discussion and are not equipped to make an informed decision, as is clear with our Board.

Had you taken the time to review some of the material with a long list of facts at my blog before shooting your mouth off, you would realize what a fool you are making yourself out to be with this patronizing/condescending display.

Sorry, but I find posters here who bark at their board and gnarl their teeth, don't seem to get the concept they are part of the pack. My advice still stands to stop calling the board "Those people" and get on your board. Otherwise, get out of the way. No one is stopping you from being a board member if you can gather the votes and are a homeowner.




What an extremely ignorant comment.

Again, you offer nothing to this discussion but counter productive and counter intuitive asinine statements. This is my last reply to you.

PS. You'd fit in well with our current board members. Same display of ignorance and emotional knee-jerk reactions without knowing even what you are talking about.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


05/18/2016 3:57 PM  
The Ps words say it all...Seems someone needs to spend time in front of a miror...

Former HOA President
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 4:34 PM  
Classic projection.
LarryB13
(Arizona)

Posts:4099


05/18/2016 5:22 PM  
Seventeen-plus years of tilting at the windmills. And the windmills are still there.

The blogspot has only one member, and just a few others posting on FB. Not much to show for 17 years of effort.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 5:43 PM  
Posted By LarryB13 on 05/18/2016 5:22 PM
Seventeen-plus years of tilting at the windmills. And the windmills are still there.

The blogspot has only one member, and just a few others posting on FB. Not much to show for 17 years of effort.




Another one like Melissa doing a disservice to this forum.

It's not about followers, likes or membership to my blog and FB page, but it's all about readership. A concept clearly above your head.
There is also people who like to remain anonymous so I often get emails and private IMs.

The blog and FB (especially) is relatively new.

I have a lot to show for my 17 years fighting the HOs and a lot to show for it with them doing, in the end, what I fought them to do.

Had you been more thorough in reviewing the material at my blog you would have realized that. But no, like Melissa you just had to be patronizing/condescending.

A-Typical.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/18/2016 6:06 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/18/2016 1:13 PM

The way I see it, you have three choices, get along, fight, or move.




I can get along just fine, if the Board of Directors would just follow the governing documents and the law.

I am fighting, have been and will continue to do so until they see the errors of their ways and make the necessary corrections as they have done many times in the past as a result of my fighting efforts.

Move, while MANY people have because of how our board runs the HOA, it is not an option for me. I am a veteran and I will stand my ground, never giving up or cowardly walking away from an adversary. More importantly, I am not fighting just for myself but all the other homeowners who no more like our Board and how they run this HOA than I do. No one else is doing it, they complain a lot about it, but do nothing (i.e. apathetic and complacent). At least I am taking action and have effected real change. Problem is new board members who do not know anymore about being on a board for an HOA than current members who make bad decisions that put them in the hot seat. Many have expressed their appreciation of my efforts, and have encouraged me to continue. Some even following my lead by bringing a digital voice recorder to the next meeting.

Thank you for the comment and your feedback.
JeffT2
(Iowa)

Posts:628


05/18/2016 6:45 PM  
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/18/2016 2:32 PM


ORS 94.639 Criteria for board of directors membership. (1) Each member of the board of directors must be an individual and, except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, an owner or co-owner of a lot in the planned community.

(3)(a) Except as otherwise provided in the bylaws, prior to election to the board of directors, an individual described in this subsection shall, upon request of the board, provide the board with documentation satisfactory to the board that the individual is qualified to represent the entity or is a trustee or is serving in a fiduciary capacity for the owner of a lot.


My standards are not too high, they are the same as statute cited above. There is a standard by which all board members should meet to be "qualified" to represent the HOA; and merely being a homeowner, paying your dues and willing to "volunteer" is not enough of a qualification.



IMO the "entity" here is the owner. So the phrase "qualified to represent the entity" means qualified to represent the owner, not qualified to represent the HOA. For example if a corporation owns the lot, then the corporation can designate an individual to be a director.

So this does come back to the idea that there are not really any qualifications to be a director other than being a homeowner.
LarryB13
(Arizona)

Posts:4099


05/18/2016 7:00 PM  
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/18/2016 5:43 PM
Had you been more thorough in reviewing the material at my blog you would have realized that. But no, like Melissa you just had to be patronizing/condescending.


Well, thanks for sharing that with us.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


05/18/2016 7:36 PM  
So what's really wrong with Troy's HOA?

1. The development consists of around 200 houses that are part of the HOA and around 100 houses that aren't. In a situation like that, there's always going to be disgruntled people who don't think it's fair. Makes no difference whose on the board, who the management company is, or who the lawyer is. The HOA is mandatory for some and not for others. That's a tough one.

2. The dues are around $16.50 per month. Few people (other than Troy of course) are going to get worked up over 55 cents per day.

3. The total HOA budget is around $38k. Of that, $12k goes to the management company, $6k goes to landscaping, and $6k goes to water. Which leaves around $14k per year for everything else. As much as Troy wants to go on about stuff, there really isn't that much that's subject to change from year to year.

4. Do I think that the allocation of funds is out of whack? Sure. For example, they spend $3,250 a year on printing, postage, and special services (whatever those are). It's a big chunk of the budget, but it's not a lot of dollars.

5. There's a history of incendiary remarks made by Troy, the current board Prez, and at least one prior board Prez. A lot of bad will floating around.

6. I think that people who might step up aren't going to because they don't want to risk being taken to task by self appointed watchdog Troy for every deficiency he chooses to target.

7. I think Troy has an unrealistic expectation of what the DOJ, HUD, and the courts are willing to address.

8. As I said in a prior post Troy, I like to focus on the numbers first. Your numbers tell me a lot about your HOA's problems that have nothing to do with the things that you choose to complain about. That's a problem for me.

9. I'm not going to pass judgment on whether you've made things better or worse in your HOA. Yeah, you've made yourself a lightning rod for dissent, but so what. I expect that you could probably add a lot more value to your HOA than you have so far - but that would take a course correction I think. Not sure your willing to step down from your self-righteous perch and get your hands dirty.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
RichardP13


Posts:0


05/18/2016 7:49 PM  
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/18/2016 6:06 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/18/2016 1:13 PM

The way I see it, you have three choices, get along, fight, or move.




I can get along just fine, if the Board of Directors would just follow the governing documents and the law.

I am fighting, have been and will continue to do so until they see the errors of their ways and make the necessary corrections as they have done many times in the past as a result of my fighting efforts.

Move, while MANY people have because of how our board runs the HOA, it is not an option for me. I am a veteran and I will stand my ground, never giving up or cowardly walking away from an adversary. More importantly, I am not fighting just for myself but all the other homeowners who no more like our Board and how they run this HOA than I do. No one else is doing it, they complain a lot about it, but do nothing (i.e. apathetic and complacent). At least I am taking action and have effected real change. Problem is new board members who do not know anymore about being on a board for an HOA than current members who make bad decisions that put them in the hot seat. Many have expressed their appreciation of my efforts, and have encouraged me to continue. Some even following my lead by bringing a digital voice recorder to the next meeting.

Thank you for the comment and your feedback.



Seven years ago I came to this site asking questions about elections. We had a PM and attorney rigging elections and who could get onto a Board. I was labeled a troublemaker who couldn't play well with others. In 2010, we re-wrote our Bylaws so we could have fair elections. Three of us ran for the Board and would have had a majority, but one had to drop out at the last minutes. I went through a year of not getting anything done. In 2011, the Board ran a slate to oust me and one other. We did them one better and ran a slate of five and won all five.

Apathy is amok in HOA's. People don't want to get involved. If your governing body is not running through properly, no one here can't do damn thing about. I think you know what needs to be done. You just have to find the people that will do it for you. You can go to court, but that is only short lived. You have to build a strong foundation where a tradition can carry on from what was built.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


05/18/2016 8:08 PM  
Troy,

Welcome to the forum.

I did take time to look through your blog. I did not read everything but I did look through everything.

Similar to you, I saw issues within my Association and raised the awareness level (and perhaps knowledge level) of the members of my Association by publishing a newsletter. Similar to you, I would cite passages of documents and show what was being done compared to what should have been done. I also provided the basis of my position so the members could independently verify and make their own determination. I believe that by providing this information, it shows transparency and highlights the issue rather than providing opportunities of my positions being dismissed as personality conflicts.

I was surprised that you often cited sections of documents without providing a link or a copy of the full document you were citing. You should not expect that your readers, even if they are members of your Association, know what your governing documents say or what the basis for the issues are. To put it another way, what is common knowledge to those who have gotten involved and researched an issue may not be common knowledge to others. I feel that you do your readers a disservice by not providing a copy of the full document or links to where those documents can be found.

I was also surprised by the entry of 7/16/2014 on your blog. In that entry, you indicated a fellow resident was critical of your attempt to make changes. Per your entry "This homeowner was unjustly critical and unappreciative of my efforts." You didn't mention how you tried to make the individual more knowledgeable. You didn't indicate how important it is to gather support. Instead you thanked those who did support your position and added "to the unappreciative homeowner and any others like minded, if you do not know the full history and facts of what has gone on with our HOA since 1999, please keep your unsubstantiated criticism to yourself. It is of no value to me or the other homeowners in my efforts to take a stand for us all, to include you!" If I were a member of your Association, this would make me apprehensive to support your cause (regardless if that cause helped me or not).

From your postings and blog, I am of the opinion that you are aware that changes require support. You indicated that your intend to file multiple complaints with various government agencies (10/2/14 entry) and imply you are getting ready to take the Association to court (3/17/16 entry). You then potentially alienate members who were undecided. I suspect that once assessments are raised to pay legal costs in response to your actions, your potential alienation of members could be an issue.

I chose to make changes from within my Association by informing members and gather support to replace the board (by not reelecting them). It's unclear if you attempted this first or not. It is my perception, based on your postings here and on your blog, that you are choosing to make changes through the courts. Unfortunately, taking issues to the courts is sometimes the only way to make changes occur. However, it can divide the membership and cause unintended consequences within the Association. An example of an unintended consequence is the lack of volunteers to serve.

It is clear that your Association has had many issues. From improper turnover to embezzlement of funds to individuals with agendas serving on your board. I applaud you for trying to resolve some of those issues or, at least, get the Association headed on the right track.

My suggestion is you may want to change the tone of your message from (what I take as) confrontational to, you are trying to help. Even though I know you are trying to help, that message tends to be blocked by the confrontational tone.

Instead of drawing conclusions (such as saying an individual can no longer be trusted), let the facts speak for themselves and allow your readers to draw their own conclusions.

I do wish you luck.

I hope this helps,

Tim
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


05/18/2016 9:29 PM  
Not to sound too "zen" but sometimes the answers are in our answers... If you listen to your responses, you may see why you have the issues you do. There are no real excuses when deciding not to get involved in your HOA. It's all a cop out until you do.

Former HOA President
JonD1


Posts:0


05/18/2016 9:49 PM  
17 years and just this to show?

Insulting people, making threats and accomplishing very little beneficial to the community.

But you have a blog with little traffic and a Facebook page with little activity.

17 years seems like maybe a little more could have been done. By a REAL WatchDog!

Barking at the moon and patting yourself on the back for a job well done. Just how is this all working for you?

And my guess the DOJ will be less than receptive to your calls for their involvement. And HUD too.

But by all means let us know when you succeed....


LarryB13
(Arizona)

Posts:4099


05/18/2016 10:43 PM  
Posted By JonD1 on 05/18/2016 9:49 PM
17 years and just this to show?

Insulting people, making threats and accomplishing very little beneficial to the community.

But you have a blog with little traffic and a Facebook page with little activity.

17 years seems like maybe a little more could have been done. By a REAL WatchDog!

Barking at the moon and patting yourself on the back for a job well done. Just how is this all working for you?

And my guess the DOJ will be less than receptive to your calls for their involvement. And HUD too.

But by all means let us know when you succeed....


Why would such a smart guy buy into a development with such a badly-run Association?

The draft of the DOJ/HUD/Oregon Fair Housing Counsil [sic] complaint was dated 7/20/2014. That's nearly two years and I saw no mention of a response. I thought those agencies would have mobilized their respective SWAT teams and taken action by now. Wow, the corruption never ends, does it? The HOA is corrupt. The DOJ is in cahoots with the HOA, as is HUD and the Oregon Fair Housing Counsil [sic]. A guy can't trust anybody these days.


JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


05/19/2016 5:07 AM  
17 years and going strong.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 5:52 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/19/2016 5:07 AM
17 years and going strong.




It is clear that many of you responding need to be reminded of your own posting rules, because clearly you have either forgotten them, or you simply just do not give a damn.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 5:56 AM  
Posted By LarryB13 on 05/18/2016 10:43 PM
Posted By JonD1 on 05/18/2016 9:49 PM
17 years and just this to show?

Insulting people, making threats and accomplishing very little beneficial to the community.

But you have a blog with little traffic and a Facebook page with little activity.

17 years seems like maybe a little more could have been done. By a REAL WatchDog!

Barking at the moon and patting yourself on the back for a job well done. Just how is this all working for you?

And my guess the DOJ will be less than receptive to your calls for their involvement. And HUD too.

But by all means let us know when you succeed....


Why would such a smart guy buy into a development with such a badly-run Association?

The draft of the DOJ/HUD/Oregon Fair Housing Counsil [sic] complaint was dated 7/20/2014. That's nearly two years and I saw no mention of a response. I thought those agencies would have mobilized their respective SWAT teams and taken action by now. Wow, the corruption never ends, does it? The HOA is corrupt. The DOJ is in cahoots with the HOA, as is HUD and the Oregon Fair Housing Counsil [sic]. A guy can't trust anybody these days.






*face palm*

I bought my house in 1997, the board was not created until 1999.

I never turned in the "draft" complaint, as I (with the help of several homeowners at a Town Hall meeting) got the Board to realize their mistake at the end of 2014, and everything was going fine until the beginning of this year. Now I (and other homeowners) are back to fighting the HOA/Board yet again, but this time we are working to get rid of it.

You, Melissa, and those commenting in the same patronizing/condescending manner remind me so much of our board members, past and present. And one has to wonder why so many people across the country have problems with our HOAs/Board of Directors.

TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 6:00 AM  
Posted By JonD1 on 05/18/2016 9:49 PM
17 years and just this to show?

Insulting people, making threats and accomplishing very little beneficial to the community.

But you have a blog with little traffic and a Facebook page with little activity.

17 years seems like maybe a little more could have been done. By a REAL WatchDog!

Barking at the moon and patting yourself on the back for a job well done. Just how is this all working for you?

And my guess the DOJ will be less than receptive to your calls for their involvement. And HUD too.

But by all means let us know when you succeed....






My fellow homeowners would differ on your first statement, as I have accomplished a lot that has been beneficial to the community. You and your cohorts are too blinded by your own superiority complex and obvious groupthink that you just cannot see it.

Like all things in life, we have our ups (when things work and changes are made) and downs (when new board members or stale old ones keep making bad decisions), and along the way I and fellow homeowners have been there to effect the necessary changes to get the HOA/Board to follow the governing documents and the law.

It's been working out great for me, and my fellow homeowners, and will continue to get better as I (we) win each and every battle. Thanks for asking, real swell of you.

DOJ and HUD in Oregon is very receptive, but you wouldn't know or care to check into that; it's just easier for you to make assumptions.

Be sure, I will let you all know when I (we) succeed.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 6:03 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/18/2016 9:29 PM
Not to sound too "zen" but sometimes the answers are in our answers... If you listen to your responses, you may see why you have the issues you do. There are no real excuses when deciding not to get involved in your HOA. It's all a cop out until you do.




I am involved in my HOA, I'm making sure they follow he governing documents and the law. I've won every battle to date, and have another to tackle at present.

And you really need to find some new terminology, because your comments all read the same with the same catchy phrases you clearly enjoy using.

While you're picking up a dictionary to find new words to use, click above on "Our Posting Rules," because you are clearly a habitual breaker of those rules.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 6:05 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 05/18/2016 8:08 PM
Troy,

Welcome to the forum.

I did take time to look through your blog. I did not read everything but I did look through everything.

Similar to you, I saw issues within my Association and raised the awareness level (and perhaps knowledge level) of the members of my Association by publishing a newsletter. Similar to you, I would cite passages of documents and show what was being done compared to what should have been done. I also provided the basis of my position so the members could independently verify and make their own determination. I believe that by providing this information, it shows transparency and highlights the issue rather than providing opportunities of my positions being dismissed as personality conflicts.

I was surprised that you often cited sections of documents without providing a link or a copy of the full document you were citing. You should not expect that your readers, even if they are members of your Association, know what your governing documents say or what the basis for the issues are. To put it another way, what is common knowledge to those who have gotten involved and researched an issue may not be common knowledge to others. I feel that you do your readers a disservice by not providing a copy of the full document or links to where those documents can be found.

I was also surprised by the entry of 7/16/2014 on your blog. In that entry, you indicated a fellow resident was critical of your attempt to make changes. Per your entry "This homeowner was unjustly critical and unappreciative of my efforts." You didn't mention how you tried to make the individual more knowledgeable. You didn't indicate how important it is to gather support. Instead you thanked those who did support your position and added "to the unappreciative homeowner and any others like minded, if you do not know the full history and facts of what has gone on with our HOA since 1999, please keep your unsubstantiated criticism to yourself. It is of no value to me or the other homeowners in my efforts to take a stand for us all, to include you!" If I were a member of your Association, this would make me apprehensive to support your cause (regardless if that cause helped me or not).

From your postings and blog, I am of the opinion that you are aware that changes require support. You indicated that your intend to file multiple complaints with various government agencies (10/2/14 entry) and imply you are getting ready to take the Association to court (3/17/16 entry). You then potentially alienate members who were undecided. I suspect that once assessments are raised to pay legal costs in response to your actions, your potential alienation of members could be an issue.

I chose to make changes from within my Association by informing members and gather support to replace the board (by not reelecting them). It's unclear if you attempted this first or not. It is my perception, based on your postings here and on your blog, that you are choosing to make changes through the courts. Unfortunately, taking issues to the courts is sometimes the only way to make changes occur. However, it can divide the membership and cause unintended consequences within the Association. An example of an unintended consequence is the lack of volunteers to serve.

It is clear that your Association has had many issues. From improper turnover to embezzlement of funds to individuals with agendas serving on your board. I applaud you for trying to resolve some of those issues or, at least, get the Association headed on the right track.

My suggestion is you may want to change the tone of your message from (what I take as) confrontational to, you are trying to help. Even though I know you are trying to help, that message tends to be blocked by the confrontational tone.

Instead of drawing conclusions (such as saying an individual can no longer be trusted), let the facts speak for themselves and allow your readers to draw their own conclusions.

I do wish you luck.

I hope this helps,

Tim




Thank you Tim for taking the time to familiarize yourself with some of the information and problems we've been having. Your comment has been by far more thoughtful in its feedback, and it did help. Thank you.

Troy
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 6:06 AM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/18/2016 7:49 PM
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/18/2016 6:06 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/18/2016 1:13 PM

The way I see it, you have three choices, get along, fight, or move.




I can get along just fine, if the Board of Directors would just follow the governing documents and the law.

I am fighting, have been and will continue to do so until they see the errors of their ways and make the necessary corrections as they have done many times in the past as a result of my fighting efforts.

Move, while MANY people have because of how our board runs the HOA, it is not an option for me. I am a veteran and I will stand my ground, never giving up or cowardly walking away from an adversary. More importantly, I am not fighting just for myself but all the other homeowners who no more like our Board and how they run this HOA than I do. No one else is doing it, they complain a lot about it, but do nothing (i.e. apathetic and complacent). At least I am taking action and have effected real change. Problem is new board members who do not know anymore about being on a board for an HOA than current members who make bad decisions that put them in the hot seat. Many have expressed their appreciation of my efforts, and have encouraged me to continue. Some even following my lead by bringing a digital voice recorder to the next meeting.

Thank you for the comment and your feedback.



Seven years ago I came to this site asking questions about elections. We had a PM and attorney rigging elections and who could get onto a Board. I was labeled a troublemaker who couldn't play well with others. In 2010, we re-wrote our Bylaws so we could have fair elections. Three of us ran for the Board and would have had a majority, but one had to drop out at the last minutes. I went through a year of not getting anything done. In 2011, the Board ran a slate to oust me and one other. We did them one better and ran a slate of five and won all five.

Apathy is amok in HOA's. People don't want to get involved. If your governing body is not running through properly, no one here can't do damn thing about. I think you know what needs to be done. You just have to find the people that will do it for you. You can go to court, but that is only short lived. You have to build a strong foundation where a tradition can carry on from what was built.




Thank you for your thoughtful feedback, much appreciated.

Troy
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 6:10 AM  
Posted By NpS on 05/18/2016 7:36 PM
So what's really wrong with Troy's HOA?

1. The development consists of around 200 houses that are part of the HOA and around 100 houses that aren't. In a situation like that, there's always going to be disgruntled people who don't think it's fair. Makes no difference whose on the board, who the management company is, or who the lawyer is. The HOA is mandatory for some and not for others. That's a tough one.

2. The dues are around $16.50 per month. Few people (other than Troy of course) are going to get worked up over 55 cents per day.

3. The total HOA budget is around $38k. Of that, $12k goes to the management company, $6k goes to landscaping, and $6k goes to water. Which leaves around $14k per year for everything else. As much as Troy wants to go on about stuff, there really isn't that much that's subject to change from year to year.

4. Do I think that the allocation of funds is out of whack? Sure. For example, they spend $3,250 a year on printing, postage, and special services (whatever those are). It's a big chunk of the budget, but it's not a lot of dollars.

5. There's a history of incendiary remarks made by Troy, the current board Prez, and at least one prior board Prez. A lot of bad will floating around.

6. I think that people who might step up aren't going to because they don't want to risk being taken to task by self appointed watchdog Troy for every deficiency he chooses to target.

7. I think Troy has an unrealistic expectation of what the DOJ, HUD, and the courts are willing to address.

8. As I said in a prior post Troy, I like to focus on the numbers first. Your numbers tell me a lot about your HOA's problems that have nothing to do with the things that you choose to complain about. That's a problem for me.

9. I'm not going to pass judgment on whether you've made things better or worse in your HOA. Yeah, you've made yourself a lightning rod for dissent, but so what. I expect that you could probably add a lot more value to your HOA than you have so far - but that would take a course correction I think. Not sure your willing to step down from your self-righteous perch and get your hands dirty.




At least you made an effort to read [some] of the facts, but your conclusions are found wanting.

Exaggerating and even making straw man arguments within your comment destroyed any positive (and I am using the term loosely) feedback you were attempting to give.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 6:11 AM  
Posted By LarryB13 on 05/18/2016 7:00 PM
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/18/2016 5:43 PM
Had you been more thorough in reviewing the material at my blog you would have realized that. But no, like Melissa you just had to be patronizing/condescending.


Well, thanks for sharing that with us.




You're most welcome.

Anything else patently obvious I can share? Oh, wait...yes there is.

http://www.hoatalk.com/PostingRules/tabid/71/Default.aspx
JonD1


Posts:0


05/19/2016 7:02 AM  
It would appear the OP is blind to even the possibility their personality, approach and presentation just might be adding to the turmoil.

You would get further by attempting to work with people rather than insulting, threatening, and failing to listen.

Sitting outside the process with the only goal being to "watchdog" the board after 17 years has changed little.

And while there might in fact be valid issues I doubt the OP's approach will ever successfully address them. So far the effort has lasted 17 years and not much to show.

But carry on and continue to believe you are an important role player in the process. I am sure complaints to the DOJ and HUD will put the fear of God into them. Or be seen as more hot air from a PIA.

Pretty clear the mindset under which the OP operates. It is them against me. Not neighbors, not fellow property owners but rather the mortal enemy.
We have seen this before lots of noise, promises, plans, and self praise. Then silence when the reality their fantasy will never occur.

Time to update the blog.....

NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


05/19/2016 7:15 AM  
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 6:10 AM
Posted By NpS on 05/18/2016 7:36 PM
So what's really wrong with Troy's HOA?

1. The development consists of around 200 houses that are part of the HOA and around 100 houses that aren't. In a situation like that, there's always going to be disgruntled people who don't think it's fair. Makes no difference whose on the board, who the management company is, or who the lawyer is. The HOA is mandatory for some and not for others. That's a tough one.

2. The dues are around $16.50 per month. Few people (other than Troy of course) are going to get worked up over 55 cents per day.

3. The total HOA budget is around $38k. Of that, $12k goes to the management company, $6k goes to landscaping, and $6k goes to water. Which leaves around $14k per year for everything else. As much as Troy wants to go on about stuff, there really isn't that much that's subject to change from year to year.

4. Do I think that the allocation of funds is out of whack? Sure. For example, they spend $3,250 a year on printing, postage, and special services (whatever those are). It's a big chunk of the budget, but it's not a lot of dollars.

5. There's a history of incendiary remarks made by Troy, the current board Prez, and at least one prior board Prez. A lot of bad will floating around.

6. I think that people who might step up aren't going to because they don't want to risk being taken to task by self appointed watchdog Troy for every deficiency he chooses to target.

7. I think Troy has an unrealistic expectation of what the DOJ, HUD, and the courts are willing to address.

8. As I said in a prior post Troy, I like to focus on the numbers first. Your numbers tell me a lot about your HOA's problems that have nothing to do with the things that you choose to complain about. That's a problem for me.

9. I'm not going to pass judgment on whether you've made things better or worse in your HOA. Yeah, you've made yourself a lightning rod for dissent, but so what. I expect that you could probably add a lot more value to your HOA than you have so far - but that would take a course correction I think. Not sure your willing to step down from your self-righteous perch and get your hands dirty.



At least you made an effort to read [some] of the facts, but your conclusions are found wanting.

Exaggerating and even making straw man arguments within your comment destroyed any positive (and I am using the term loosely) feedback you were attempting to give.

Yes I did spend some time going through the materials I could find on your HOA, and especially a budget which can be found at: http://oakknollhomeownersassoc.org/images/uploads/Oak_Knoll_2015_Budget.pdf

Your response IMO is a cop-out.

Let me also remind you that in my first post, I commented on your language/attitude. Your responses was: "Please do not get hung up on semantics, it would be counter productive to a healthy, productive discussion."

Now it appears that you have used my choice of language/attitude to shut down any productive discussion.

Most of what I wrote was merely describing facts and expressing my opinion on those facts.

Your saying that my "conclusions are found wanting" are as dismissive of me as you claim others are being of you.

If you don't want to respond to my full list of issues, then why not start with my first point. It's a point you haven't made. But I think it's at the core of many of your HOA's problems.

Let's discuss it, not by finding fault with individuals or entities - but by getting a better understanding of what those individuals/entities have to cope with if turning around a problem situation was on their agenda.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


05/19/2016 8:07 AM  
Funny... When I became President of my HOA I went back to basics. I brought the rules to each meeting. If questioned, we would respond by taking time to refer to the rules before providing an answer. That way we could educate ourselves in the correct response and directly refer to the exact rule wording. If we issued violations, we did the same thing. We would provide the exact quote from the CC&R's or ACC documents they were in violation of.

We didn't need someone to be our "Watchdog". I also find that a HOA that follows Robert Rules of Order, typically aren't acting irrationally. Not every state is required to use that meeting process. It doesn't sound like an out of control board if there are procedures/process in place. You just have to work WITHIN the system...

It seems we have another "Hero" that would rather fall on their sword than run with it. No one needs or wants a hero in their HOA. They want people who participate and doesn't rip it apart for their self serving needs/wants.

Former HOA President
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


05/19/2016 8:08 AM  
Funny... When I became President of my HOA I went back to basics. I brought the rules to each meeting. If questioned, we would respond by taking time to refer to the rules before providing an answer. That way we could educate ourselves in the correct response and directly refer to the exact rule wording. If we issued violations, we did the same thing. We would provide the exact quote from the CC&R's or ACC documents they were in violation of.

We didn't need someone to be our "Watchdog". I also find that a HOA that follows Robert Rules of Order, typically aren't acting irrationally. Not every state is required to use that meeting process. It doesn't sound like an out of control board if there are procedures/process in place. You just have to work WITHIN the system...

It seems we have another "Hero" that would rather fall on their sword than run with it. No one needs or wants a hero in their HOA. They want people who participate and doesn't rip it apart for their self serving needs/wants.

Former HOA President
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 8:24 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/19/2016 8:08 AM
Funny... When I became President of my HOA I went back to basics. I brought the rules to each meeting. If questioned, we would respond by taking time to refer to the rules before providing an answer. That way we could educate ourselves in the correct response and directly refer to the exact rule wording. If we issued violations, we did the same thing. We would provide the exact quote from the CC&R's or ACC documents they were in violation of.




Good for you and your perfect world, but that is not a reality for every HOA.

Our Board members before and after having a management company rep present, NEVER brought a copy of the Bylaws, CC&Rs or the Planned Community Act. They do nothing to educate themselves OR the homeowners asking the questions. They brush them off and excuse their action or lack thereof in question with, "we're just volunteers."

We didn't need someone to be our "Watchdog".




That's surprising given your condescending attitude on display towards me; it would only be logical that you exhibit the same attitude when you were on the board towards other homeowners like me who would question the (in)actions of the board.

But hey, I guess where you lived it was Utopia for all.

I also find that a HOA that follows Robert Rules of Order, typically aren't acting irrationally. Not every state is required to use that meeting process. It doesn't sound like an out of control board if there are procedures/process in place. You just have to work WITHIN the system...




Our Board NEVER followed the RR of Order until the management companies came along, and even then they still did not follow them correctly.


It seems we have another "Hero" that would rather fall on their sword than run with it. No one needs or wants a hero in their HOA. They want people who participate and doesn't rip it apart for their self serving needs/wants.




Well, homeowners in my HOA do want me and encourage me in what I am doing. We don't have obnoxious types like yourself.

But hey, every comment counts in the end; even the obnoxious ones. I (we) learn from it all.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 8:30 AM  
Posted By NpS on 05/19/2016 7:15 AM

Your response IMO is a cop-out.




That is your subjective unsubstantiated opinion.

Let me also remind you that in my first post, I commented on your language/attitude. Your responses was: "Please do not get hung up on semantics, it would be counter productive to a healthy, productive discussion."

Now it appears that you have used my choice of language/attitude to shut down any productive discussion.

Most of what I wrote was merely describing facts and expressing my opinion on those facts.

Your saying that my "conclusions are found wanting" are as dismissive of me as you claim others are being of you.




Wrong again. I am neither using your choice of language/attitude or being dismissive. Your conclusions were found wanting, that is an observation based in fact. Making an observation does not equate to being dismissive.


If you don't want to respond to my full list of issues, then why not start with my first point. It's a point you haven't made. But I think it's at the core of many of your HOA's problems.

Let's discuss it, not by finding fault with individuals or entities - but by getting a better understanding of what those individuals/entities have to cope with if turning around a problem situation was on their agenda.




What about your first point? You made an observation based on fact. There is nothing to discuss, as you made a valid observation that no one (in my HOA) is in disagreement with.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 8:32 AM  
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 8:24 AM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/19/2016 8:08 AM
It seems we have another "Hero" that would rather fall on their sword than run with it. No one needs or wants a hero in their HOA. They want people who participate and doesn't rip it apart for their self serving needs/wants.




Well, homeowners in my HOA do want me and encourage me in what I am doing. We don't have obnoxious types like yourself.

But hey, every comment counts in the end; even the obnoxious ones. I (we) learn from it all.




Correction, we do have obnoxious homeowners...they have consistently been those on the Board of Directors, and they are the only ones in the entire HOA. Funny how a small group of people can screw things up for everyone else.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


05/19/2016 8:39 AM  
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 8:30 AM
If you don't want to respond to my full list of issues, then why not start with my first point. It's a point you haven't made. But I think it's at the core of many of your HOA's problems.

Let's discuss it, not by finding fault with individuals or entities - but by getting a better understanding of what those individuals/entities have to cope with if turning around a problem situation was on their agenda.


What about your first point? You made an observation based on fact. There is nothing to discuss, as you made a valid observation that no one (in my HOA) is in disagreement with.

Ok. If there's no disagreement on my first point - Then let's move on to points 2-9.

Let's have a conversation.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 9:27 AM  
Posted By NpS on 05/18/2016 7:36 PM
So what's really wrong with Troy's HOA?

1. The development consists of around 200 houses that are part of the HOA and around 100 houses that aren't. In a situation like that, there's always going to be disgruntled people who don't think it's fair. Makes no difference whose on the board, who the management company is, or who the lawyer is. The HOA is mandatory for some and not for others. That's a tough one.




No disagreement.

2. The dues are around $16.50 per month. Few people (other than Troy of course) are going to get worked up over 55 cents per day.




Here is where you and others go off on a red herring tangent. It is not about the amount of money per year, per month, per day...but rather everything to do with where the money is going.

Our Board, for years, has been mismanaging HOA funds. Either underfunding or not funding the reserve account without 75% approval of the homeowners, to spending reserve funds on non-common improvements, so on and so forth. Funds have been stolen in the past without the homeowners knowledge (it only came out in a 2011 meeting with the attorney present let that one slip), and they have been comingling accounts/funds. They have also been investing some of the money that ultimately disappears in large chunks from the spreadsheet with no accounting for it. Also, our CC&Rs state any profits of the HOA are to be divided amongst the homeowners. Having money market accounts earning x% for several years, there is undoubtedly a profit being made. It may not be substantial, but the point is they are not sharing it with the homeowners per the CC&Rs.


3. The total HOA budget is around $38k. Of that, $12k goes to the management company, $6k goes to landscaping, and $6k goes to water. Which leaves around $14k per year for everything else. As much as Troy wants to go on about stuff, there really isn't that much that's subject to change from year to year.




Actually there is, and if you were privy to all the financials and the meeting minutes you would see that. Again, as noted above, there has been a lot of mismanagement and comingling of HOA funds. And no one in our HOA likes the fact that $12k is being paid to a management company that is just as ineffective as the Board. It is a fundamental waste of money.


4. Do I think that the allocation of funds is out of whack? Sure. For example, they spend $3,250 a year on printing, postage, and special services (whatever those are). It's a big chunk of the budget, but it's not a lot of dollars.




That is a point I have addressed to the board in the past too. No disagreement here.


5. There's a history of incendiary remarks made by Troy, the current board Prez, and at least one prior board Prez. A lot of bad will floating around.




You do not have a full picture of all the correspondence between myself, the board, the management company and/or the law firm. So your characterization of my remarks is unwarranted and entirely subjective (merely your personal opinion).

Notwithstanding, depending on who I am dealing with and how they interact with me dictates my response. Some people just don't have the emotional temperament to discuss things in a rational common sense adult manner. As such, you have to retort with the same language they use and understand in the same tone so they hear you rather than dismiss you.

The rest of your point, no disagreement.


6. I think that people who might step up aren't going to because they don't want to risk being taken to task by self appointed watchdog Troy for every deficiency he chooses to target.




If people would just do the job right, I wouldn't have to be the watchdog.

Your logic here, which is akin to Melissa's, is on its face ridiculous and lacking common sense.

It is like saying a police officer will not step up and do their job because they don't want the risk of being taken to task by citizens armed with cell phones and scream vulgarities and other prejudicial terms, if not being physically accosted for just doing their job. If the cops are doing their job right, they wouldn't have to worry about said citizens; because in the end their devises (cell phones) gets used against them when the truth comes out.


7. I think Troy has an unrealistic expectation of what the DOJ, HUD, and the courts are willing to address.




Not from the legal research I have done and collated.


8. As I said in a prior post Troy, I like to focus on the numbers first. Your numbers tell me a lot about your HOA's problems that have nothing to do with the things that you choose to complain about. That's a problem for me.




What do numbers have to do with the glaring FACT that they operate contrary to the Bylaws, CC&Rs and state statutes?


9. I'm not going to pass judgment on whether you've made things better or worse in your HOA. Yeah, you've made yourself a lightning rod for dissent, but so what. I expect that you could probably add a lot more value to your HOA than you have so far - but that would take a course correction I think. Not sure your willing to step down from your self-righteous perch and get your hands dirty.




Back in '99 early '00s I was on the CC&R committee, but that was short lived with all the infighting and attacks from the outside on the ineffectiveness of the Board. Since then it has been a better pursuit for me to watch and listen to others than go after the HOA/Board for its failure to perform its fiduciary duties in the best interest of the homeowners and not their own self-serving ends.

The overall tone of your comment here (as with many comments in the other points) is nothing short of an ad hominem attack, and only serves to discredit any point you deem of value to this discussion.
DonA2
(Arizona)

Posts:170


05/19/2016 9:29 AM  
From reading through this, it's really no wonder Troy isn't getting along with his HOA. He wanted advice, he got advice, but wanted to fight those giving the advice. Just the tone put forth on here is enough to put people on the defensive.

Trying to fight from the outside, instead of getting on the Board and correcting things from the inside isn't helping anyone.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 9:35 AM  
Posted By DonA2 on 05/19/2016 9:29 AM
From reading through this, it's really no wonder Troy isn't getting along with his HOA. He wanted advice, he got advice, but wanted to fight those giving the advice. Just the tone put forth on here is enough to put people on the defensive.

Trying to fight from the outside, instead of getting on the Board and correcting things from the inside isn't helping anyone.




*face palm*

The tone started with Melissa, let's get that straight here and now. It then cascaded with others with the same attitude, I am merely responding in the defensive to their offensive.

Getting on the Board is not the answer to every problem. Why some/most of you cannot grasp that simple truth is dumbfounding.
DonA2
(Arizona)

Posts:170


05/19/2016 9:55 AM  
It's your time and your money. If you have another 17 years to keep complaining, then do it your way.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 10:15 AM  
Posted By DonA2 on 05/19/2016 9:55 AM
It's your time and your money. If you have another 17 years to keep complaining, then do it your way.




If you are not part of the solution (thoughtfully contributing to the discussion at hand), then you are part of the precipitate (the same overall negative condescending/patronizing tone exhibited by others herein derailing the discussion).


DonA2
(Arizona)

Posts:170


05/19/2016 11:00 AM  



If you are not part of the solution (thoughtfully contributing to the discussion at hand), then you are part of the precipitate (the same overall negative condescending/patronizing tone exhibited by others herein derailing the discussion).






All of us that you consider condescending and patronizing seem to have one thing in common. And that is that we are or have been Board members and we keep telling you that you are wasting your time. You came here for advice. You've been given advice. But if you want to keep doing things your way, that's on you.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 11:23 AM  
Posted By DonA2 on 05/19/2016 11:00 AM



If you are not part of the solution (thoughtfully contributing to the discussion at hand), then you are part of the precipitate (the same overall negative condescending/patronizing tone exhibited by others herein derailing the discussion).






All of us that you consider condescending and patronizing seem to have one thing in common. And that is that we are or have been Board members and we keep telling you that you are wasting your time. You came here for advice. You've been given advice. But if you want to keep doing things your way, that's on you.




I see, so where the Board failed to follow the CC&Rs and Law in establishing the required reserve account, and by my actions I successfully made them follow the CC&Rs and Law by implementing and funding the reserve account was a waste of my time?

Where the Board failed to follow the law and take action within one year of the date of the infraction noted of the CC&Rs on my property (no street trees), and they attempted to threaten and coerce me into purchasing and planting them per the CC&Rs, succeeding and rebutting their position and to this day I have no street trees was a waste of my time?

The Board also failed to follow the CC&Rs and Law that required a maintenance plan and reserve study to be done on an annual basis, meanwhile collecting funds for the reserve account and spending money out of it with no accountability, but when I proved my case and they quietly had a reserve study done was a waste of my time?

The Board incorrectly interpreted the common improvements section of the CC&Rs and forced everyone to pay for the maintenance, repair and/or replacement of street trees just along one street of the HOA to the benefit of just those homeowners rather than ALL trees on ALL lots as the CC&Rs states. I finally got the board to admit they were wrong and they rescinded funding any maintenance, repair and/or replacement of the trees along that street, or any street trees for that matter because the cost would obviously be astronomical. That was a waste of my time?

I can go on and on about all the changes correcting the Board/HOA/Management Company in their mistakes and effecting change with them actually following the governing documents and law; and I assure you it was definitely not a waste of my time.

The advice you claim was given, please point it out because neither you, Melissa, et al have provided any advise. There were only to commenters who provided thoughtful feedback, the rest of you just went on the A-typical board member knee-jerk verbally accosting rampage.
RichardP13


Posts:0


05/19/2016 12:25 PM  
Troy

The real question is, what did you really expect to accomplish or achieve coming to this site. Many of us went through the very same thing as you, some much, much worst.

The association I used to live in had delinquencies of $60K and that number was going down. Now, 4 years later, it's over $300K. This is a nice community, but an ignorant Board and less than honest management company. I have been in the HOA management business for over 5 years and I have never been associated with a HOA with such a high delinquency rate. But, excuse the french, they don't give a shit.
JonD1


Posts:0


05/19/2016 12:32 PM  
Like others Troy is the self appointed watchdog/enforcer of all that is HOA.

Troy determines when things are done "right" and seems no one has the vast knowledge Troy has acquired over 17 years of banging his head on the door.

The belief Troy holds that the DOJ will involve themselves in this is delusional. Although he has gathered information supporting this.

His belief HUD will intervene over a faulty reserve fund policy is also nonsense.

Troy drafted his legal brief back in 2014 and had it simmering on the burner for almost 2 years with the belief this will solve his numerous issues with his HOA and board. My guess wishful thinking at its best.

Troy also has an attitude. Though his blog writings and Facebook posts it is clear Troy holds the belief he is the burning bush.
I would guess others might view him in a very different light.

Then he arrives here. Explaining his plan is working wonders when many of us know from actual expierence if you wish to make fundamental changes you need to roll up your sleeves, jump down into the thick of it and involve yourself. Not post dribble and nonsense on an inactive blog and barely viewed Facebook page.

But when you are a know it all everyone else and their ideas are not worth your consideration.

Troy fights the good fight no one else has asked him to fight. Troy fights the good fight no one cares about. Troy judges his own accomplishes when it seems they are minimal,at best over 17 years. He proudly listed is blog and FB page when they mean little if anything.

Troy is a right fighter. He is always right. Everyone who doesn't agree is always wrong. But that is lost on him.

My guess many of us have forgotten more about HOAs than Troy will ever know. We Amy have had something to offer. But with Troy's obnoxious attitude and closed mind why would we bother? But more importantly why does Troy bother to post here still. The crazy train is all filled up. Time to get on board and ride away.....

I have sympathy for those forced to interact with Troy and others like him.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


05/19/2016 12:39 PM  
Thanks for your response.

Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 9:27 AM
Posted By NpS on 05/18/2016 7:36 PM
So what's really wrong with Troy's HOA?

1. The development consists of around 200 houses that are part of the HOA and around 100 houses that aren't. In a situation like that, there's always going to be disgruntled people who don't think it's fair. Makes no difference whose on the board, who the management company is, or who the lawyer is. The HOA is mandatory for some and not for others. That's a tough one.


No disagreement.

Personally, I think this is the biggest problem your HOA has. 1/3 of the people don't have to pay and don't have any restrictions. I'm sure that at least another 1/3 are upset about it enough to be openly vocal. Non-compliance has to be a big problem and a big concern for your members and for your board. I would like to hear your thoughts on how, WITHOUT disbanding the HOA altogether, improvements could be made on this particular issue.

Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 9:27 AM
2. The dues are around $16.50 per month. Few people (other than Troy of course) are going to get worked up over 55 cents per day.

Here is where you and others go off on a red herring tangent. It is not about the amount of money per year, per month, per day...but rather everything to do with where the money is going.

Our Board, for years, has been mismanaging HOA funds. Either underfunding or not funding the reserve account without 75% approval of the homeowners, to spending reserve funds on non-common improvements, so on and so forth. Funds have been stolen in the past without the homeowners knowledge (it only came out in a 2011 meeting with the attorney present let that one slip), and they have been comingling accounts/funds. They have also been investing some of the money that ultimately disappears in large chunks from the spreadsheet with no accounting for it. Also, our CC&Rs state any profits of the HOA are to be divided amongst the homeowners. Having money market accounts earning x% for several years, there is undoubtedly a profit being made. It may not be substantial, but the point is they are not sharing it with the homeowners per the CC&Rs.

The point I was making was a statement about HOAs in general. Most people don't want conflict in their own backyard. They'd rather pay the $16.50 a month than get brought into a fight that in their opinion is too close to home.

As to deficiencies you found with your board, I think everyone who posts here has had those type of experiences. Some worse than yours, some less severe.

Some of us challenged a prior board and were chastised for it. Some of us got boards replaced. Some of us got on our boards because we got sick and tired of the state of things. So I won't comment on your details except one. I have never heard of any HOA that distributed money market interest earned to its owners.

Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 9:27 AM
3. The total HOA budget is around $38k. Of that, $12k goes to the management company, $6k goes to landscaping, and $6k goes to water. Which leaves around $14k per year for everything else. As much as Troy wants to go on about stuff, there really isn't that much that's subject to change from year to year.


Actually there is, and if you were privy to all the financials and the meeting minutes you would see that. Again, as noted above, there has been a lot of mismanagement and comingling of HOA funds. And no one in our HOA likes the fact that $12k is being paid to a management company that is just as ineffective as the Board. It is a fundamental waste of money.

Troy, there's $14k in play. And if they paid the management company $4k less, there would then be only $18k in play. There aren't that many dollars at risk.

When I read a new poster's story, I try to put myself in the shoes of a homeowner in that community. I just don't see that many people getting worked up about it.

Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 9:27 AM
6. I think that people who might step up aren't going to because they don't want to risk being taken to task by self appointed watchdog Troy for every deficiency he chooses to target.


If people would just do the job right, I wouldn't have to be the watchdog.

Your logic here, which is akin to Melissa's, is on its face ridiculous and lacking common sense.

It is like saying a police officer will not step up and do their job because they don't want the risk of being taken to task by citizens armed with cell phones and scream vulgarities and other prejudicial terms, if not being physically accosted for just doing their job. If the cops are doing their job right, they wouldn't have to worry about said citizens; because in the end their devises (cell phones) gets used against them when the truth comes out.

To paraphrase what you're saying: "If only they did things the way I think they should, I wouldn't have to be their watchdog."

The problem with this statement is that they were elected and you were self-appointed. It's their job to set the agenda, not yours. It's their job to budget the funds, not yours. If you don't like what they're doing, you can vote them out of office. That's the way it works in a democracy.

I don't compare my arguments to Melissa's. She and I disagree on more things than we agree on. I can't remember the last time I was accused of lacking common sense. As far as your cop analogy goes, I don't see the relevance. I don't see HOA members having to make split second decisions that could make the difference between life and death.

A better analogy might be to members of a church having a dispute with the elders. How public do you make those disputes? How do you work through those problems?

Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 9:27 AM
7. I think Troy has an unrealistic expectation of what the DOJ, HUD, and the courts are willing to address.


Not from the legal research I have done and collated.

I expect that what you've done is collect a bunch of documents that support your point of view. But can you show me a case where the DOJ took action against an HOA for mismanagement of the type you described? I doubt it. HUD? I doubt it. A judge? I doubt it.

What you have is a lot of "shoulds." I doubt you have many "dids" to back up your perspective.

Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 9:27 AM
8. As I said in a prior post Troy, I like to focus on the numbers first. Your numbers tell me a lot about your HOA's problems that have nothing to do with the things that you choose to complain about. That's a problem for me.


What do numbers have to do with the glaring FACT that they operate contrary to the Bylaws, CC&Rs and state statutes?

Here we disagree. I'm not going to hold my HOA accountable for every infraction if they are taking steps that are for the betterment of our community.

HOAs should IMO be run like a business. Allocate resources in the best interest of the community. Build goodwill as best you can. Stand ready to be replaced if the shareholders don't like the job you're doing.

If you think every little rule is more important than these core principles, you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree.

Example. My HOA docs don't allow anyone to run a business out of their homes. We don't enforce the rule, and we aren't going to waste the $1,000 it would take to make the changes to our docs. You might take us to task for our approach. But the homeowners in my community like the way we have balanced our choices between spending money and practical realities.

Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 9:27 AM
9. I'm not going to pass judgment on whether you've made things better or worse in your HOA. Yeah, you've made yourself a lightning rod for dissent, but so what. I expect that you could probably add a lot more value to your HOA than you have so far - but that would take a course correction I think. Not sure your willing to step down from your self-righteous perch and get your hands dirty.

Back in '99 early '00s I was on the CC&R committee, but that was short lived with all the infighting and attacks from the outside on the ineffectiveness of the Board. Since then it has been a better pursuit for me to watch and listen to others than go after the HOA/Board for its failure to perform its fiduciary duties in the best interest of the homeowners and not their own self-serving ends.

I have a friend who's a judge on an appellate court. I've read many of her opinions. I told her that I was amazed at the clarity of her writing. In response, she asked if I noticed how many times hers was the Dissenting rather than the Majority opinion. I said no. But then I went and did a little research. When I saw her next, I told her that I thought her best opinions were her Dissents. She said, "Of course." It's a lot easier when you only have to express your own opinion. But when you need to get two other bull-headed egos to agree with you, you have to find ways to bring them on board with you. Your message might not be as clear, but that's the way you get the law changed in a positive way.

I think you could learn from that story. I did.

Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 9:27 AM
The overall tone of your comment here (as with many comments in the other points) is nothing short of an ad hominem attack, and only serves to discredit any point you deem of value to this discussion.

Since you got here, you have been making ad hominem attacks. In fact yours have been far more severe than mine. So why shouldn't your attacks "discredit any point you deem of value to this discussion."

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 12:55 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/19/2016 12:25 PM
Troy

The real question is, what did you really expect to accomplish or achieve coming to this site. Many of us went through the very same thing as you, some much, much worst.




The answer is within the question and follow-up statement.

If many here claim to be past board members or are current ones, who as you clearly state have went through the "very same thing" as I and my fellow homeowners are doing; then would it not be logical to infer that those same people could lend some insight into the experience they had and what was effective in changing it...other than telling me to get on the board (that is NOT the correct answer in ALL cases)!?!
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 12:57 PM  
Posted By JonD1 on 05/19/2016 12:32 PM
Like others Troy is the self appointed watchdog/enforcer of all that is HOA.

Troy determines when things are done "right" and seems no one has the vast knowledge Troy has acquired over 17 years of banging his head on the door.

The belief Troy holds that.....BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

I have sympathy for those forced to interact with Troy and others like him.




One giant asinine juvenile ad hominem attack that contributes to the breakdown in communication in this discussion, rather than fostering it like a few others have done and are still doing.

TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 1:00 PM  
Posted By NpS on 05/19/2016 12:39 PM

Since you got here, you have been making ad hominem attacks. In fact yours have been far more severe than mine. So why shouldn't your attacks "discredit any point you deem of value to this discussion."





Since I got here...really?

Try again.

Melissa was the first (and continues) to get snippy with me, and then Larry B, and then JonD, so on and so forth.
RichardP13


Posts:0


05/19/2016 1:05 PM  
Posted By TroyS2 on 05/19/2016 12:55 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/19/2016 12:25 PM
Troy

The real question is, what did you really expect to accomplish or achieve coming to this site. Many of us went through the very same thing as you, some much, much worst.




The answer is within the question and follow-up statement.

If many here claim to be past board members or are current ones, who as you clearly state have went through the "very same thing" as I and my fellow homeowners are doing; then would it not be logical to infer that those same people could lend some insight into the experience they had and what was effective in changing it...other than telling me to get on the board (that is NOT the correct answer in ALL cases)!?!



What I did and others here did was STEP UP to the plate and not rely on others to do the dirty work for us.

If, you say, getting on the Board is not the CORRECT answer, HOW DO YOU KNOW, until you tried. As the saying goes, shit or get off the pot!
TroyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:610


05/19/2016 1:08 PM  
For those of you who think / actually believe, that the DOJ does not get involved in HOA issues:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-settlement-homeowners-association-and-property-management-company

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-files-fair-housing-lawsuit-against-florida-homeowners-association-and (we've had this problem in the past in our HOA)

http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/kentucky/article44542995.html

A simple google search yields plenty case examples.

HUD gets involved in HOA matters just the same:

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/tennessee-hoa-pays-156000-to-settle-disability-discrimination-lawsuit-052715.html

I'm not going to a superfluous amount of URLs to show that those of you with the subjective opinion that DOJ, HUD or Court that as the proper venue to get involved in HOA matters will do nothing for me and my fellow homeowners are flat out clearly mistaken.
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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > HOA Board + Management Co. wantonly violate Bylaws, CC&Rs and State Law



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