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Subject: hoa changing rules on vacation rentals - help!
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JillianP
(Florida)

Posts:1


02/01/2015 11:29 AM  
I purchased a condo in Miami two and a half years ago. I am from the UK but my business takes me back and forward for around 5 months of the year. I did not want a place in a building full of vacation rentals, I wanted a mainly residential building that I could call home but financial sense means I had to find somewhere that allowed me to rent short term occasionally whennthe place was empty. The building I chose allowed short term vacation lets to friends and family and two vacation rental to none friends/family per year. This was perfect for me so Ive usually been renting it to one or two renters over Xmas and New year when Im in the UK and once or twice for a couple of weeks during the year to a family member or friend. Everyone who stays or visits my apartment is respectable, well behaved and considerate of my neighbours and I would never rent to groups of teenagers looking for pool parties etc because its my home and not just for the purpose of making money.

I hafe no prior experience of HOAs but soon found out that they are not always run by people with the best interest of fellow residents in mind. At first things happened such as the elevators being changed so they default up to the 6th floor, where all the board members live, rather than the 1st floor which is the norm - I found this petty and a bit amusing but then, despite the fact that there is never a problem with parking spaces they introduced a rule saying all guests must display a parking permit or get towed. This doesnt sound too harsh until you realise that the building manager and permit issuer is only on site 9 to 5 on a Monday and Wednesday and even then she's yard to pin down. When I complained and said that essentially it meant I could only have friends over during the day on Mondays and Wednesday, a bord member responded by asking me if I was so concerned because I wanted to entertain men in my apartment! Ive seriously found that the board is a group of nasty little old men who make rules that suit them and seem bent on treating anyone who hasnt been there for 25 years like an outsider.

To be honest I just told him that I would be telling any visitors just to put a note on their dash saying they are visiting my apartment and if anyone gets towed Ill be suing the HOA although dont know if that would stand. Im not losing sleep over the silly rules or even the inappropriate comments but now they have introduced another rule saying that only family members related by blood or adoption can stay and that the owner must be present. This really is a step too far. My aunt and uncle who have stayed there before without me have been there for a few days prior to a trip to the Keys and were cornered by a HOA member who questioned them and told them they had to report to another resident - who I dont know - on Monday morning to give information on who they are! Friends visiting me have also been approached and questioned. Its really embarrassing and unpleasant.

My main worry is the fact that they are saying I cant even rent occasionally to my friends and family any more because this is going to make it very difficult for me financially. Can they do this or should these rules only apply to new purchasers? Dont they have to grandfather me to the rules that were in force when I purchased? Surely they cant just move the goal-posts like this. HELP!!!
TimB4
(Tennessee)

Posts:17852


02/01/2015 9:00 PM  
Typically Associations can make rental restrictions. However, for them to better withstand legal challenges it's best that the changes are made in the CC&Rs vs. any other document.

To challenge such changes, you will likely need to consult with a local attorney who will have access to all of your governing documents.


As a side note, instead of renting to your friends and relatives - have them house sit for you.

JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


02/01/2015 11:32 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 02/01/2015 9:00 PM

As a side note, instead of renting to your friends and relatives - have them house sit for you.

That works . The owner should have any right to have a family member oversee and make sure everything OK while they are away or out of the country.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


02/02/2015 12:06 AM  
Jillian: welcome to the forum.

Tim gives very sound advice. If is a big issue for you seek an attorney to review your docs. If allowed in past an HOA generally should not put an undue hardship on owners. If it would put an undue hardship then owners should be potentially grandfathered. You did you due diligence prior to purchasing and looked for a home you could live in part of year and rent when travel away for few months. After spending potentially hundreds of thousands BOTH you and your "secured creditor" should have certain prior rights protected.

This is a prime example of owners generally do not have an issue with what they purchased ... They have issues with changes made after large investments. I personally disagree with many state legislators lowering percentage required to change docs. Governing docs should be very difficult to change ...
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11665


02/02/2015 5:11 AM  
Janet

Keep in mind that lowering percentages required to change docs does not limit ones participation nor right to vote on such.

Most of the lowering of percentages concerns Bylaws, not Covenants. This is mainly done to aid in running the association rather then change its foundation (Covenant) docs.

In the OP's case I get the opinion the changes being made are maybe being done with Rules and Regulations changes which cannot override the Covenants and Bylaws. I have seen this happen over and over especially with attempted rental restrictions and in most cases the R&R is illegal.




KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8729


02/02/2015 1:02 PM  
What do your CC&Rs say about rentals, Jillian? Any mention whatsoever?? Sorry if I missed any reference you may hav made to them.

Our are very vague an say we cannot rent our condos on a transient basis. We had to have our HOA attorney write an opinion for us and he said, we cannot place a rental limit longer then 30 days unless we revise our CC&Rs.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


02/04/2015 2:54 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 02/02/2015 5:11 AM
Janet

Keep in mind that lowering percentages required to change docs does not limit ones participation nor right to vote on such.

Most of the lowering of percentages concerns Bylaws, not Covenants. This is mainly done to aid in running the association rather then change its foundation (Covenant) docs.

In the OP's case I get the opinion the changes being made are maybe being done with Rules and Regulations changes which cannot override the Covenants and Bylaws. I have seen this happen over and over especially with attempted rental restrictions and in most cases the R&R is illegal.


John:

I agree with your paragraph 1 … and believe I stated that to you on one of your prior questions on this forum. However, if I remember we were discussing quorums … not docs.

I disagree with your paragraph 2 … Many states have lowered percentages for amending Covenants. I do not have issues with lower on other docs, but I do for CCR's. The only item which should be lowered to mainly aid in running the association is Quorums. It should not be difficult for an HOA to have proper meetings, members to call for meetings, hold elections, or run the association business due to high quorum percentages.

Paragraph 3 … If recall OP did not state which doc is being changed. However, due to OP discussing had looked around long and hard for home that allowed rentals … it would lead to the issue is potentially CCR changes. I agree with you R&R cannot supersede CCR's. Some boards do not want to tackle properly amending CCR's and will try to utilize R&R to enforce regulations that end up conflicting with the covenants.

So the question for the OP would be which document is the association trying to change?
BonnieG1
(Nebraska)

Posts:1186


02/04/2015 8:06 PM  
I don't know about the towing laws in FL, but in NE we can't tow a car unless we have signage indicating the care can be towed and a phone number to call if the car is towed.

On the other issue, it would seems to me that you should be grandfathered in on any rule changes made after you purchased your condo.

I know we have made at least one rule change, but grandfathered in one owner.
EricN3
(California)

Posts:16


07/04/2021 9:39 PM  
that's sure in the hell a better idea than renting it out. god only knows what by laws will have been broken not to mention what the place might look like once he came back to miami. i wouldn't want to play LL from another state let alone another country either!!!
BillH10
(Texas)

Posts:783


07/05/2021 6:34 AM  
EricN3, welcome to the Forum.

I notice you have posted several replies to messages, some of the threads to which you have posted are quite old. As rules and laws change, and those who post are from many states, I recommend you watch the dates on the threads.

What may have been relevant or sage advice in 2015 may no longer be so in 2021.

Again, welcome.
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