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Subject: Homeowner being sued by NC HOA
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NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


03/03/2015 8:30 AM  
Posted By HowardC2 on 03/02/2015 5:22 PM
When I got the first, one and only letter, stating that I owed the HOA money it was from the HOA attorney and it stated that I owed $13,000.00 for, "past due amounts". It also stated that if I didn't pay this amount that a lien would be filed against me. It went on to include something to the effect that the BOD can force foreclosure on my home if the amount is not paid. I could not find anything regarding the ability of the BOD to foreclose on a property for unpaid charges of this nature. I am aware that they can force foreclosure for unpaid fines and dues but I couldn't find anything about forcing foreclosure in other circumstances. I suppose they can force foreclosure if it is determined that I do indeed owe them money. The HOA attorney stated this in hiw letter to me so I'll assume he knows it is legal to do so per our governing documents and/or NC state law???

I agree that the time for wishing to put this matter behind me ASAP is past. I am in for the long haul now unless the HOA drop this which I feel is very unlikely. I'll pony up the money to my attorney and I'll let him handle things. I am not in any rush at this point. I'd like to be able to say it will all be over soon but that doesn't seem to be the outlook.


1. Don't assume that the attorney is following the law. Assume that he is trying to intimidate you. Remember, he is not accountable to anyone for the accuracy of what he put in his letter to you.

2. Glad you're no longer in a rush.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JonD1


Posts:0


03/03/2015 10:08 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/03/2015 6:14 AM
To play the Devil's Advocate. I believe the BOD is saying they had to spend money ($13K I think) to correct what Howard had improperly done and they want Howard to pay.

The BOD might well be within their rights to bill and lien if not paid.

As an example. A BOD has to pay to correct a situation such as an mow an unsightly lawn. The HOA bills the owner. The owner refuses to pay. I believe the HOA couild lien on the unpaid bill.

In Howards specific case there are many things at play but those things aside, I believe the HOA can lien on the unpaid bill.







After rereading Howard's first few posts HE took it upon himself to clean out and "improve" this pond without board permission or authority to do so.

As John's suggests and I agree this charge could now be viewed as the cost to undo what Howard has admitted to doing.

In that case it could be vowed as an assessment to recoup the property's costs.

In that case as I suggested it would be possible a lien be filed. Then foreclosure proceedings could follow.

And if you read the NC rules it appears the legal costs of collecting this assessment can be added to the lien amount.

A lien being filed does not require both parties agree to the debt or the amount.

Judging from Howard's stance ( in my opinion a mistake) mediation will solve nothing.

This is off to court, the last place you want to push this matter.

If Howard altered or changed property under the control of the board whether with good intentions or not I can see this board working to recoup those costs.

Or should the other owners foot that bill after having no involvement ?

This is going from bD to worse and digging your heels in on perceived principle will dig the hole deeper perhaps.
JonD1


Posts:0


03/03/2015 10:08 AM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/03/2015 6:14 AM
To play the Devil's Advocate. I believe the BOD is saying they had to spend money ($13K I think) to correct what Howard had improperly done and they want Howard to pay.

The BOD might well be within their rights to bill and lien if not paid.

As an example. A BOD has to pay to correct a situation such as an mow an unsightly lawn. The HOA bills the owner. The owner refuses to pay. I believe the HOA couild lien on the unpaid bill.

In Howards specific case there are many things at play but those things aside, I believe the HOA can lien on the unpaid bill.







After rereading Howard's first few posts HE took it upon himself to clean out and "improve" this pond without board permission or authority to do so.

As John's suggests and I agree this charge could now be viewed as the cost to undo what Howard has admitted to doing.

In that case it could be vowed as an assessment to recoup the property's costs.

In that case as I suggested it would be possible a lien be filed. Then foreclosure proceedings could follow.

And if you read the NC rules it appears the legal costs of collecting this assessment can be added to the lien amount.

A lien being filed does not require both parties agree to the debt or the amount.

Judging from Howard's stance ( in my opinion a mistake) mediation will solve nothing.

This is off to court, the last place you want to push this matter.

If Howard altered or changed property under the control of the board whether with good intentions or not I can see this board working to recoup those costs.

Or should the other owners foot that bill after having no involvement ?

This is going from bD to worse and digging your heels in on perceived principle will dig the hole deeper perhaps.
BanksS


Posts:0


03/03/2015 11:19 AM  
Howard,

I skimmed through the number of posts on this thread. It appears that you restored the pond to the BOD's satisfaction. End of discussion there.

The separate issue is the BOD hiring a contractor to fill in the pond and the BOD expects you to pay for it at a cost of $13,000. Based on what you posted, I agree that you are not responsible to pay the contractor but......

Would the board have contracted for the fill in of the area (pond or whatever it is called) if you had not altered it in the first place.

I am just throwing this out as a suggestion. Offer them $5,000 as a settlement. They may or may not accept it. But you could use the offer as a starting point possibly meeting them at half way for $6500. Half way seems a reasonable offer to just get rid of this enormous headache. These things can go on for years but only you can decide what is best for you in your heart and mind.

All the best to you Howard. - Banks
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


03/03/2015 3:00 PM  
The sticking point is that the HOA told me exactly what to do to correct my mistake. Some of the things they asked me to do were crazy. For one thing they asked me to have a stipulation recorded with the deed to my house and property. They wanted the document to state that "I will be responsible for any future problems with the current condition of the pond in the event that and state local and/or federal agency has a problem with the pond". I told them I would not write and record such a letter and that I doubted it was legal for me to even try to attach a letter of this nature to my deed. They agreed to drop this demand and a few others that were equally nuts. Anyway the end result was that we agreed that the pond, "was returned to it's original condition". This is exactly as the BOD put their requirements. They had and have no idea what the original condition was. I happen to have archived satellite images of the area and it clearly shows a body of water exactly where the pond was. This pond dried up after a severe drought in 2010 and it lost it's ability to hold more than a couple of feet of ground water. After several years of filling it I tried to put a liner in it and that is when I was pinned for breaking the RC. Still I followed their demands and "restored it to it's original condition". This took several weeks and they inspected it about three times and failed me three times. They kept coming up with new demands after each inspection. It was crazy. They said, "ok do this and that and this and that". I would do so and they would look and find more things. I did those things and the same results. Finally I asked to meet with them personally to make sure we can agree face to face that the final inspection was to their satisfaction. We met and it was and they said this as well as wrote this in the minutes of the meeting. Now they claim that what I did was not satisfactory. I didn't know they still had an issue with me and the pond until I got the letter from the HOA attorney.
So I ask, Is it OK that they can call an issue "resolved", to use the exact term they used, then unilaterally decide it was not resolved? If they can then why didn't they tell me that the resolution was to fill in the area with dirt? This would have opened the issue back up again and, if nothing else, I would have been aware of the fact that they are now requiring the are be filled in. Then I would have at least had an opportunity to contract the work myself and save a ton of money.
I feel the BOD:
Made it clear the issue was resolved.
Decided that filling in the area with dirt was something they felt had to be done even though there are a few other areas that hold water year round. One of which is at the opposite corner of my property. Same situation but I have never bothered with it because it is far from my view.
Made a unilateral decision that they would charge me for the work they contracted.
Contracted with a company and gave them an open estimate
Blamed me for the inaccurate estimate that the contractor gave them.
and finally, they denied me the due process that a homeowner should be afforded in a case such as this.
They had the work contracted. Paid the contractor and never mentioned to the contractor that I would be paying the bill, not that this matters I suppose. Informed me that I was responsible for the original amount of $6k plus the additional $7K via one single notice in the form of letter from the HOA atty threatening me with a lien if I didn't pay "past sums due" of $13K within 10 days or 30 days, I forget which. Is this proper protocol for a demand for money by an HOA BOD? Our community has a clearly defined adjudicatory committee but this committee was done away with as per the BOD at a recent meeting.
It is, without question, a complete mess and it all stems from the fact that my HOA BDO has an unimaginable amount of power and the people that sit on it have no problem using it in any way they see fit.
Thanks for all the input, comments and research. Much appreciated.
Howard
DarylF
(Washington)

Posts:157


03/04/2015 2:50 PM  
Summary:
You improved the pond without approval
Got caught, fixed it to their satisfaction returning it to what it was
Have a letter from them saying they were satisfied.
Story should be over there...
Board decided to fill the pond in and charge you for it for some reason.

I'd find out why they filled it in. On a whim? Seemed like a good idea? Suggested by an Engineer? Asked for by other neighbors? They thought it would look better? They had to have a reason, and that reason will determine why they think you should pay for it. Not sure about your state laws, but mine says they have to give me the meeting minutes. if they don't, file a separate case with the state AG.

You returned it to what it was, they were happy, then they chose to alter it further. that's not on you unless i'm missing something?

Should be an easy case to win, be sure to counter sue for all legal costs, time off work, stress and anything else you can come up with that they will allow.

Good luck, and i hope your wife is doing good!
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


03/04/2015 4:02 PM  
Posted By DarylF on 03/04/2015 2:50 PM
Summary:
You improved the pond without approval
Got caught, fixed it to their satisfaction returning it to what it was
Have a letter from them saying they were satisfied.
Story should be over there...
Board decided to fill the pond in and charge you for it for some reason.

I'd find out why they filled it in. On a whim? Seemed like a good idea? Suggested by an Engineer? Asked for by other neighbors? They thought it would look better? They had to have a reason, and that reason will determine why they think you should pay for it. Not sure about your state laws, but mine says they have to give me the meeting minutes. if they don't, file a separate case with the state AG.

You returned it to what it was, they were happy, then they chose to alter it further. that's not on you unless i'm missing something?

Should be an easy case to win, be sure to counter sue for all legal costs, time off work, stress and anything else you can come up with that they will allow.

Good luck, and i hope your wife is doing good!




I do not believe Howard has a "letter" from the HOA saying they were satisfied. Am I wrong Howard?

HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


03/04/2015 4:42 PM  
I do not have a physical letter at this time. I know I never got a letter in the mail. I may have received an email however I honestly deleted almost all the emails regarding the pond issue because I wanted it out of my life once I was told I was in the clear.
I know this was a dumb move now. I recovered a couple of emails from some trash folder but the email server I use is a Yahoo server and there is no provision for retrieving old emails. I tried asking about this but was informed that Yahoo email deletes emails in all of the folders for address that use their free email accounts. My email address is nearly as old as the internet and I didn't want to change my email address in years past. Now I am signed up with Yahoo by default and my free email account is not under as much control as it was when I had the account through the original email server which was bellsouth.
I do have a copy of the minutes from the meeting where the BOD states the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of the BOD and a letter will be sent thanking the homeowner. I also have access to and/or copies of all the BOD minutes including the one from a year ago that has the motion to charge me for the work.
The meeting where they chose to charge me was in February and I didn't get the letter from the HOA atty until September??? It is no surprise that I didn't get a letter in the mail from the BOD thanking me as per the meeting. They are not great about details, following up, accountability etc. A lot of things get dropped and blamed on another party such as the management company or anyone other than a BOD member.
Thanks
If I can answer any additional questions I am happy to do so.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


03/04/2015 7:18 PM  
Posted By HowardC2 on 03/04/2015 4:42 PM

I do have a copy of the minutes from the meeting where the BOD states the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of the BOD and a letter will be sent thanking the homeowner.




Since the minutes are the official record of what happened within the Association, your copy of the minutes should be enough. Never give away your copy, only a copy of your copy.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


03/04/2015 9:27 PM  
I wanted to add someone said to include "loss wages". The court typically will NOT allow this. That is because they consider you showing up to court to defend yourself the "Price of freedom to defend yourself". Basically, it's the price one has to pay for the right to be heard in court. So I would not include the loss wages to going to court in your damages. It's best to keep to REAL numbers that have receipts.

Former HOA President
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/06/2015 7:03 AM  
Keep your chin up Howard, remember talk is cheap. Wait for them to make the next move, play it smarter than them.
JohnB26


Posts:0


03/06/2015 7:17 AM  
.................... so, you do NOT have a letter ....................

offer to settle the matter for 1/2


good luck, but you are screwed

AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/06/2015 7:21 AM  
I agree with TIM that the minutes should be enough proof, but of course consult with your lawyer (who did say that he felt that the HOA would lose in court as you stated after your last meeting).
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/09/2015 7:52 PM  
Howard,
Check out the posts under the subject "Your biggest HOA Joy or Accomplishment" by RobertL21. I thought his story of determination and not backing down and ultimately prevailing would be encouraging to you because of what your going through. (Just wanted to call it to your attention in case you missed it.)
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


03/10/2015 4:07 PM  
Thanks, I will reply in that thread and ask him to look at this nightmare.
I will give a little further update from my end.
The BOD sent out a letter to the entire community that was received last Thursday. I was not named as the person that the letter was referring to. There are only a few people in the HOA that know I am being threatened with a lien and foreclosure. One of those called me after reading the letter. I could easily sense, by the questions and how he was asking them, that he felt the letter from BOD was gospel. The letter begins by saying "here are the facts as they currently stand". I suppose he figured if they said these were the facts then they were. I set him straight about the lies the BOD put in the letter but it made me think that there are likely other people in the community that will read the letter and also figure it is true. These people would think I am a nut job just from this letter. I showed the letter to my attorney and he wrote a letter to the HOA attorney requesting the mailing addresses for the community as well as a couple of other things. When I get the addresses I will mail the facts as they currently stand except my facts will have supporting references for the homeowners to review. He did not mention the letter.
It will take time before the address are available so I plan on writing a shorter letter and emailing it to the people that have their email listed with a person who does general community emails. This person has been doing this as a service to the community for years and I know she will have no problem forwarding my cliff notes version to the people on her list. The only problem with that is there are only 30% of the homeowners that have the email address in her list. That number is a guess BTW and it may be much less or may be more. I am going to ask how many are actually on her list. I'll get the word out to those on the list and ask them to spread the word as well.
My wife had a great idea. We are going to try to get a number of people, maybe 6 or so, to attend an upcoming open meeting. We are going to give these people a couple of questions that they can ask of the BOD during the open session. It will be easy to open the topic because it is relevant via the letter they sent out. From these questions we should be able to get the ball rolling down the road that leads to the BOD having to come up with some facts to support the claims in the letter. They may take the, "we can't talk about it due to instructions from our attorney". I'll try to make sure that everyone I "invite" knows to tell the BOD that this is not a case currently being litigated so the BOD has to discuss it or they are hiding behind this canned statement that makes them mute. Hopefully we can get past that by saying it is the HOA attorney and we are the HOA plus they opened the door by mailing the letter. They can't open a door, throw in a letter, and slam it shut. I am hoping we can get enough momentum during the meeting that the BOD has to squirm a lot. Maybe even rethink filing suit but I doubt that. I will have one person that was on the BOD helping me put the pressure on. They are known to close meetings for things they don't wish to discuss by saying the people are out of order and slamming the hammer.
I am sure they got this letter out to get momentum their way and to forestall questions they will have to answer from people when they ask why the legal fees are so much more than the budget next year AND why are the swale repair numbers so far off the chart this year. The money they spent on filling the pond is in this years budget and are exactly $13k over the proposed amount.
The letter the BOD sent out is so incredible. It is full of lies and statements that are extremely misleading. It paints me in a very bad light and makes them look like they are saints. These are evil people. The HOA attorney is very sleazy. He will clearly benefit from having this suit take a lot of time and it was also very clear he has no problem avoiding my questions and playing the stall game.
Thanks Howard
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


03/10/2015 4:17 PM  
I forgot to ask. Why do HOA's have so many problems? I think it is due, in a large part, to the fact that most HOA's are set up using boiler plate HOA governing documents. Once established changing the rules is a rare feat.
Thanks again
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


03/10/2015 4:23 PM  
Howard,

You are currently in a legal battle (regardless if the issue is in court yet or not).

My advice is don't send anything out to the membership without your attorney reviewing it first. You may inadvertently cause additional issues for your case.

For example, your attorney may be holding something back from the Association to use as a grand slam in court (perhaps the board isn't aware that you have a copy of the minutes, as an example). If you inadvertently mention it, the Association now has time to build a defense to it.
JonD1


Posts:0


03/10/2015 4:58 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 03/10/2015 4:23 PM
Howard,

You are currently in a legal battle (regardless if the issue is in court yet or not).

My advice is don't send anything out to the membership without your attorney reviewing it first. You may inadvertently cause additional issues for your case.

For example, your attorney may be holding something back from the Association to use as a grand slam in court (perhaps the board isn't aware that you have a copy of the minutes, as an example). If you inadvertently mention it, the Association now has time to build a defense to it.





I have to agree with Tim.

I will go one step further Howard, you yourself tend to doubt any of this tit for tat will change the course of this matter than what will be accomplished?
You were NOT named as the involved party but any response by you removes all doubt.

Just what purpose do you think this strategy serves?

What does your lawyer think about your planned rebuttal?

Wasting your time winning the battle of public opinion does nothing.

And as far as your plans to force the board to respond my guess confidentiality, privacy, litigation all shut that down whether your staged
Members perform as you instruct them or not.

Can you provide us with a copy of their letter minus identifying information? My be helpful to understand their position.

I would avoid making personal attacks and questioning the motives of the board or their attorney. This could result in your burning any bridge
with which to cross in any attempt for settlement. Unless of course you plan to move at some point afterwards.

Your lawyer green lighted your letter to the community?

To what ends?

I would be very very very careful about what I did next.

You don't want to dig the hole deeper.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/10/2015 6:25 PM  
Howard,

Wow, what has happened is so shocking to me. I'ts a lot to digest and difficult to try and disect. I would agree to not jump the gun and send anything out without very, very careful consideration and your attorney's okay. They're are all different ways to look at what the board has chosen to do by sending out that letter. Yes they are trying to get the edge and get support for their scheme. But in a way it seems a little desperate that they would need to stoop so low, using sneaky underhanded tactics like that! If they're so confident why are they going that route? Why don't they just serve your with court papers for the lawsuit? or that lien that they've threatened for so long?

I say don't do anything in anger and agree to be extremely careful about your next move.

Good point Tim made about giving away all your ammo and giving them time to come up with a defense against it, that came to my mind also (it's hard to decide what to withhold and what not to sometimes).

I agree with Jon mostly but in your case public opinion just might matter because most likely they want the rest of the community to be on their side as far as funding and risking all their money to continue using HOA money for legal fees against you, so their opinion might matter at this point.

I don't envy you, but don't give up.

ps. also read that letter over and over so you can see their angles and defend yourself against their lies and warped sense of what took place.

(as much as I'd be interested in seeing their letter to you like Jon requested, If it were me I'd be afraid to do that on an open forum. This forum comes up pretty close to the top of the list when anyone googles a HOA question, but of course it's your choice.)
JohnB26


Posts:0


03/10/2015 7:15 PM  
Howard;

At this point it is time to 'shut up' and 'lawyer up'.

Best of luck.

John S. Bernabeu
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


03/10/2015 7:33 PM  
Posted By JonD1 on 03/10/2015 4:58 PM
Can you provide us with a copy of their letter minus identifying information? My be helpful to understand their position.

You have certainly won us over Howard. Many of us believe that you have been wronged.

I do believe that most of us would prefer to read the actual letter itself. It says what it says - It doesn't need explanation. And although I support you personally, I would prefer to make my own assessment of the letter rather than read again your negative views of the people who wrote/approved the letter.

You have told us your story very well. We would like to have the opportunity to read their version of the facts so that we can compare one against the other and comment.

Personally, I don't think it matters much if you weren't named individually in their letter. But it does matter how they describe you and the actions you supposedly took or that you are supposedly responsible for. And it does matter how it was signed or if their letter was signed at all.

So why not share the actual letter and find out if we agree with your assessment.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8592


03/10/2015 9:11 PM  
Welcome back, NpS. I'd like to see, per Nps & Jon, the letter itself, too.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


03/10/2015 9:50 PM  
Howard,

Although I would also be interested in seeing the letter as well, I strongly suggest not posting it on this site at this time. Keywords in the letter can easily be searched and it could lead the board or their attorney to this site. Attachments are also available when a search is done as well. You may or may not want what has been posted here in their hands at this time.

Tim
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/11/2015 5:24 AM  
Howard

I'm glad you reached out to Robert hopefully he can give you some insight that will be useful in some way, or just a fresh look at things from a different persons perspective (never hurts).

By the way I think your wife's idea of having that friend of yours who was on the BOD in the past and others throw out some tough questions to the BOD in public discussion at the meeting was a good one. Like you said the BOD opened that door when they sent the letter out, they should be expecting questions from the membership, why not educate your neighbors that will be attending so the question/answers aren't one sided. It can't hurt to have other neighbors aware of whats happening to you and be on your side, that's for sure. Gathering any support in the neighborhood, I think would be to your advantage. (I realize it's hard sometimes because people are afraid to get involved, so don't count on too much participation but it could ultimately help you in the end). If you don't get your side of the story out in any way, they may take it that the BOD letter is undisputed. I do stress again as you've been warned by all BE CAREFUL what you share.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/11/2015 7:02 AM  
The BOD is trying to gain the support of the entire community on their "ideas" of pursuing (expensive) litigation in hopes of winning a case against you. Remember right or wrong 50% of winning in court, always a RISK. Possibly they are planning to ask for a vote to get the memberships permission or depending on how your doc's are written maybe just a "blessing". IF they call for a vote on the matter and they lose and don't have support from the community, what will they do??? Hmmm......maybe drop it??? maybe go ahead and risk anyway???? (I doubt it.) It might be worth it to have your attorney either write or okay a well worded letter from you to send out the the community like you spoke about. (Who knows it could squash the whole thing, never know.)

Of course, others may not agree with my hypothetical, and it is just that. But IMO, you should do anything you can at this critical time to avoid court and all that expense.

Your letter/lawyers letter IMO should stress to the community the RISK of more of their HOA dues/money being spent than the BOD already has done, without their knowledge.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


03/11/2015 7:51 AM  
It's also possible that the Board knows that the may likely lose in court and a re trying to use peer preassure to have you settle. OR It's possible that the Board is trying to have you disclose what youf strategy is so they can build a counter strategy.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


03/11/2015 7:53 AM  
Sorry for typos. Using my cell phone and it's difficult to type with it.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/11/2015 7:57 AM  
I agree Tim, those are other good possibilities. I think all we can do for Howard at this point is throw out different angles, ideas and opinions at this point and hope some of our brainstorming helps him.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


03/11/2015 1:57 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 03/10/2015 4:23 PM


My advice is don't send anything out to the membership without your attorney reviewing it first. You may inadvertently cause additional issues for your case.

For example, your attorney may be holding something back from the Association to use as a grand slam in court (perhaps the board isn't aware that you have a copy of the minutes, as an example). If you inadvertently mention it, the Association now has time to build a defense to it.




I agree, I would not do anything my attorney would not approve. I plan on consulting him prior to making any move and he is supposed to get back to me after reading my proposed email. I will not send it without him reviewing it and approving it. I should have stated this but I knew in my head that everything I mentioned I had already put out to my attorney. I just assumed IYKWIM.
Thank

Posted By JonD1 on 03/10/2015 4:58 PM
If my lawyer approves of my emailing the HOA AND making a presence at the next meeting I'll move forward with both. I don't see how there can be confidentiality, privacy etc concerns for the BOD. I would be the one exposing myself as the villain in the letter IF I end up going to the meeting. If they say that their attorney says shut up I'll say "Whose attorney"? They may or may not understand they are talking about the HOA attorney-not "their attorney". I'm sure the letter will be brought up at the meeting if I am there or not so I have to attend anyway.

I have no problem making the letter available but I don't want to put it on this forum. I can even take a good photo of it so that all can see it is "official" although there is no letterhead etc on the most recent one to the homeowners. If someone has an idea as to how I can make the letter available to those here that are interested let me know and I'll do it.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 03/11/2015 7:02 AM
The BOD is trying to gain the support of the entire community on their "ideas" of pursuing (expensive) litigation in hopes of winning a case against you. Remember right or wrong 50% of winning in court, always a RISK. Possibly they are planning to ask for a vote to get the memberships permission or depending on how your doc's are written maybe just a "blessing". IF they call for a vote on the matter and they lose and don't have support from the community, what will they do??? Hmmm......maybe drop it??? maybe go ahead and risk anyway???? (I doubt it.) It might be worth it to have your attorney either write or okay a well worded letter from you to send out the the community like you spoke about. (Who knows it could squash the whole thing, never know.)

Your letter/lawyers letter IMO should stress to the community the RISK of more of their HOA dues/money being spent than the BOD already has done, without their knowledge.




Telling the community that the BOD is getting ready to spend a lot of money is powerful IMO. My attorney will have to approve anything I write prior to mailing or emailing. I brought up the idea of mailing my letter to him and he said, at the time, it was a good idea.
Our HOA BOD does not need the approval or vote from the HOA for anything. Our RC are written so the BOD can do anything it wishes to. The only check the BOD has is if people wish to pursue issues through lawyers etc. Otherwise we are at the mercy of the decision making abilities of the BOD members.
I believe the community opinion was a strong motivator for the BOD sending out the letter.
I hope folks understand I am trying to get this threat squashed without having to settle for any money other than the mounting attorney fees. This is why I am exploring the possibilities of using emails and meetings etc as a tool. I know I am 100% correct in my position. Neither attorney that I have spoken to has suggested I have any contributory outstanding issues that would allow a judge to see things and point a finger at me. The previous issue was closed. The BOD opened the can up again why? Because they can that's why. They have that almighty power to spend cash and give instructions to the attorney to start squeezing. One way or another they know full well that the target of their zeal will need to cash out and give the BOD money. As I keep telling my wife when she asks, "what about this or what about that, doesn't that show they are wrong?" I keep having to say that it doesn't matter about right and wrong. Right they win and wrong they win.


Posted By TimB4 on 03/11/2015 7:51 AM
It's also possible that the Board knows that the may likely lose in court and a re trying to use peer pressure to have you settle. OR It's possible that the Board is trying to have you disclose what youf strategy is so they can build a counter strategy.




Yes they are using peer pressure by trying to win over the sentiment of the HOA. I don't blame them. I think it was a smart move because they know they will have to answer about expenditures at some point. That is if they get money from me or not. They get money they still have to explain the overage on the attorney fees. I highly doubt they would think the letter is going to bait me into acting in a manner that would disclose my strategy. I don't imagine they could care less about my strategy. They have absolutely nothing at stake here. I have already spent a good amount of money on this issue that they caused yet I have no hope of getting this money back. They can just keep spending and spending because the majority of them think they are doing the right thing by reopening the issue that was closed and using this as their justification for squeezing me. It is just an unbelievable situation when a group of people can decide to go after someone for money and not have to worry about anyone looking over their shoulder. They have no one to answer to. An HOA, or at least my HOA, is a government like no other in this country. The HOA is a freak of nature in a democratic society (or whatever our society is classified as these days, I'm really not sure what to call it)
Thanks
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/11/2015 6:15 PM  
Howard,
I understand that you are trying to get this squashed and not pay them a settlement. Honestly if it were me I would personally not give them a dime either if I knew I was right and felt I could prove it. This isn't a small amount of money they are asking for, $13,ooo or even half is to me a heck of a lot of cash to fork over when I'm in the right (wouldn't even be an option for me, I'm waaaaay to stuborn!). Not sure if you checked the other thread but Robert answered you back and had some tips and advice that may be useful to you. He describes a way he cut down on his legal fees and got a better understanding of the court system. He seems very intelligent and educated and although his case and state are different than yours he has lived through an ordeal and justice prevailed for him. I don't think you should tell your wife "Right they win and wrong they win", that is not always true.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/11/2015 6:25 PM  
I think one idea Robert had mentioned was for you and neighbor friends to show up at the HOA meeting and someone ask them "How much the legal fees are and what they might be projected to be if they took the legal route against you?" That would really put them on the spot in public, and I do think that your neighborhood deserves to know this information anyway (after all it's not just their money at stake.
BanksS


Posts:0


03/11/2015 7:11 PM  
Posted By AmandaR2 on 03/11/2015 6:25 PM
I think one idea Robert had mentioned was for you and neighbor friends to show up at the HOA meeting and someone ask them "How much the legal fees are and what they might be projected to be if they took the legal route against you?" That would really put them on the spot in public, and I do think that your neighborhood deserves to know this information anyway (after all it's not just their money at stake.



Amanda,

Just checking, are you trying to catch up to Tim with your posting counts.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/11/2015 7:43 PM  
Banks,
Believe me that will NEVER happen, just have some free time recently and been doing some other work at my computer. Once the weather stays warmer and sunnier I'll be history. I'm sure everyone will miss me terribly!
BanksS


Posts:0


03/12/2015 4:47 AM  
Howard,

At this point in your dispute with your HOA SILENCE IS GOLDEN!
DarylF
(Washington)

Posts:157


03/12/2015 2:38 PM  
Agree with the others, do not reply or send a letter to the community! it helps nothing and can only hurt you in court.

However, if they put anything non factual in the letter about you, the second they tie your name to it they will have committed liable and are open to further legal action from you. If a reasonable person could conclude that they are talking about you, you still may have a case. Worth looking into.

I would also look into state HOA laws they may be violating. Not giving you information they are required too? Are they allowed to sue you over this? Threat of an equally painful counter action could wake them up and get them to do the right thing.

Also, I'd file a counter-suit ASAP after they file suit and I would absolutely include lost time from work even though you probably can't collect it. The bigger the number the better. You want them to see a big scary number that makes them reconsider their actions. Stress while trying to also deal with your wife's battle with cancer, that's worth at least $10,000, if not $100,000. I'm not a lawyer so i can't say if this works or not (and it could be a terrible idea), but I'd want to turn the table and scare the bejesus out of them!

And finally, have you considered media attention? Big evil HOA trying to screw a common family fighting cancer? You'll have lawyers begging you to let them help you, and the HOA may question how much the bad press is costing them in property value. Again, I'm not a lawyer and it may be a terrible idea given a pending court case, but worth a thought. Locally we have a investigative TV reporter that takes cases like this and it almost always resolves very quickly in favor of the common guy.
DarylF
(Washington)

Posts:157


03/12/2015 2:40 PM  
Also, if looking for the email still, check your sent files folder. if you replied to it you have a copy there.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


03/12/2015 4:51 PM  
Posted By DarylF on 03/12/2015 2:38 PM
Agree with the others, do not reply or send a letter to the community! it helps nothing and can only hurt you in court.

However, if they put anything non factual in the letter about you, the second they tie your name to it they will have committed liable and are open to further legal action from you. If a reasonable person could conclude that they are talking about you, you still may have a case. Worth looking into.

I would also look into state HOA laws they may be violating. Not giving you information they are required too? Are they allowed to sue you over this? Threat of an equally painful counter action could wake them up and get them to do the right thing.

Also, I'd file a counter-suit ASAP after they file suit and I would absolutely include lost time from work even though you probably can't collect it. The bigger the number the better. You want them to see a big scary number that makes them reconsider their actions. Stress while trying to also deal with your wife's battle with cancer, that's worth at least $10,000, if not $100,000. I'm not a lawyer so i can't say if this works or not (and it could be a terrible idea), but I'd want to turn the table and scare the bejesus out of them!

And finally, have you considered media attention? Big evil HOA trying to screw a common family fighting cancer? You'll have lawyers begging you to let them help you, and the HOA may question how much the bad press is costing them in property value. Again, I'm not a lawyer and it may be a terrible idea given a pending court case, but worth a thought. Locally we have a investigative TV reporter that takes cases like this and it almost always resolves very quickly in favor of the common guy.




I'm really torn about a letter to the community. On one hand I agree that it may not help. On another hand I have to ask why a short rebuttal, if you will, to their letter is not warranted. The BOD has an upper hand right now as far as swaying the sentiment of the community. If I were to construct, and send, an email that addressed only the things in the letter from the HOA I somehow feel this would lessen the impact the letter from the BOD might have had.

Today I received an email from the BOD. This email went to everyone on the HOA email list. The email is the agenda for an open meeting that is scheduled for next week. This is the first time EVER that there has been an agenda for a meeting announced prior to a meeting. On the agenda is an item listed as, "pond issue letter questions and answers??? I'd like some takes on the new policy of announcing the meeting agendas as well as the item "pond issue quesions and answers"

So far I have not been denied anything I've asked for from the BOD. I am not ready at this point to entertain the idea(s) of counter suits etc but my attorney suggested this may happen when I am served. This definitely sounds appealing however . As for the question, "are they allowed to sue over this?" I'd have to say that in NC they are allowed to sue over anything. Just a guess however.

I have considered media attention and it is something I will entertain if/when other things fail. The problem with this is that it hurts my neighbors that have homes for sale and it hurts my neighbors that are ini real estate. I feel our HOA BOD is working against both of these categories of people as well. My development has had media attention in the past in regard to the HOA. This was a long time ago but it was fueled by homeowners having big BOD problems.

I appreciate the replies and suggestions.

Thanks so much
Howard
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


03/12/2015 5:00 PM  
My prediction. Howard will pay more then he wants to pay and the association will spend more in legal fees to have collected such then are worth it. Bottom line is will be a lose, lose situation but each will paint it as a win for their "side".



TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


03/12/2015 7:09 PM  
Posted By HowardC2 on 03/12/2015 4:51 PM

Today I received an email from the BOD. This email went to everyone on the HOA email list. The email is the agenda for an open meeting that is scheduled for next week. This is the first time EVER that there has been an agenda for a meeting announced prior to a meeting. On the agenda is an item listed as, "pond issue letter questions and answers??? I'd like some takes on the new policy of announcing the meeting agendas as well as the item "pond issue quesions and answers"




Sounds like there letter got a lot of people asking questions about the issue they were currently unaware of. Therefore, the Board is now holding the meeting to allow those questions to be answered. Could be a good thing. If you can afford it, you may want to bring your attorney with you. At the very least, attend it yourself and bring an audio recorder (your phone will work) so there is a record about what the Board tells the membership. It may be helpful if they then try to tell the court something else.


AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/13/2015 10:22 AM  
Excellent advice from TIM. That is what you do.

Don't let them get you angry (or at least don't show it), don't give them any opportunity to ask you to leave the meeting. You want to hear (and record) everything said. They would love to get you upset and emotional enough that you're asked to leave and then have the floor as far as saying what they want.
JohnB26


Posts:0


03/13/2015 10:29 AM  
WHATEVER IT COSTS BRING YOUR ATTORNEY TO THE MEETING AND RECORD SAME

Neither one of you should speak at said meeting.

IMO: This action WILL END THE ISSUE,

The BOD will subsequently either:

have the issue disappear

or

actually bring suit against you.


either way: the issue will be no longer be in the 'Twi-Light Zone'


STOP TALKING AND POSTING
JonD1


Posts:0


03/13/2015 8:26 PM  
1) sending out an e-mail to the owners serves no real purpose other than its feel good affect
2) once you confirm you are the other party involved this voids any concern over confidentially on the board's part
3) I would certainly expect a response this time naming YOU. If you didn't like the first issue just wait.
4) as far as taking a stand at the next meeting again what purpose does this serve?
5) if you don't pay the $13,000 cost then the other owners will be paying
6) how does your lawyer gain entrance to an owner's meeting in absence of a legal proceeding?
7) absent you being named in any way. Would not happen here.
8) recordings under some state laws can be made only with the approval of all those being recorded.
9) the legal fees to recover this "debt" may be added to your account under some state laws
10) as this may end up in court the board can and will shut this arranged discussion down
11) providing details as to how you plan to defend yourself on this matter can only come back to hurt you.
12) anything you say can and WILL be used against you in a court of law
13) you want to win the war not the battles leading up to the war. Any letter to the owners or meeting theatrics
are battles whose outcome in the end will not matter.

Be very very careful what you do next. Sometimes there is no going back even if you would very much like to...
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


03/14/2015 4:22 AM  
1) sending out an e-mail to the owners serves no real purpose other than its feel good affect

Typically this is true. At the very least it will probably divide the membership.

However, if combined with a recall campaign (and it goes to all members), it may have the affect of gathering enough support to change the Board and have them drop the legal action.

Just remember, as I previously posted, it will divide the community (but that may have already occurred because of the Boards newsletter)

4) as far as taking a stand at the next meeting again what purpose does this serve?

This could serve the same purpose as sending a response to the letter, which is getting both sides of the story out there so members are fully aware of the issue. However, if done improperly at a meeting of the board it could also have the affect of turning support away from you.


5) if you don't pay the $13,000 cost then the other owners will be paying

So? The decision to spend the $13K was the Boards. It's the Boards decision(s) that encumbered the membership, not Howards.

This, from what we know, seems a clear issue of right and wrong. At the very least it's a clear issue of principal. However, your point is not lost. Sometimes to fight for principal can be more expensive.

6) how does your lawyer gain entrance to an owner's meeting in absence of a legal proceeding?

Personal representative of the member (perhaps Howards wife)


8) recordings under some state laws can be made only with the approval of all those being recorded.

Very true. I'm ashamed that I failed to mention that earlier. Howard's attorney would know if it's allowed or not. At the very least, take written notes.

Per can we tape An individual who has the consent of one of the parties to either an in-person conversation or electronic communication can lawfully record it or disclose its contents. N.C. Gen. Stat. Ann. § 15A-287 (West 2012).

However, always check to be sure. As I and others have said, you are in a legal battle and making one incorrect move could be the difference between winning and losing.

13) you want to win the war not the battles leading up to the war. Any letter to the owners or meeting theatrics are battles whose outcome in the end will not matter.

Very true. The only thing it may do is gather support. Of course it may also gather support for the other side. This is why you need to discuss with your attorney if you should or shouldn't respond to the Boards open letter to the membership and, if you respond, how should the response be worded.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


03/14/2015 4:22 AM  
Oh, lack of comment to the other items in Jon's list should be taken as an indication that I agree with them.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/14/2015 7:11 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 03/12/2015 7:09 PM
Posted By HowardC2 on 03/12/2015 4:51 PM

Today I received an email from the BOD. This email went to everyone on the HOA email list. The email is the agenda for an open meeting that is scheduled for next week. This is the first time EVER that there has been an agenda for a meeting announced prior to a meeting. On the agenda is an item listed as, "pond issue letter questions and answers??? I'd like some takes on the new policy of announcing the meeting agendas as well as the item "pond issue quesions and answers"




Sounds like there letter got a lot of people asking questions about the issue they were currently unaware of. Therefore, the Board is now holding the meeting to allow those questions to be answered. Could be a good thing. If you can afford it, you may want to bring your attorney with you. At the very least, attend it yourself and bring an audio recorder (your phone will work) so there is a record about what the Board tells the membership. It may be helpful if they then try to tell the court something else.





Still feel that Tim's advice is excellent. I would run it by your attorney to see how he feels about it and what needs to be legally done in your state concerning recording this meeting. He'll advise you on the legal matters of that and whether he can or should attend.

Another way to look at things is that if you show up at the meeting all lawyered up, the membership may think the issue is past the point of them having an affect on whether our not it goes to court. (Yes, it's a legal matter in a sense, BUT you have NOT been served with any court papers. Remember it's still up to them to make the first legal move. It's possible depending on what happens that they wont pursue this, after they uncover if the neighborhood is supporting initiating legal action or not.) It could gain you and your wife more (well deserved) sympathy from your neighbors if they see you as the victim of this wrong doing, that your truly are. I'm just throwing another angle out there, listen to your own intuition.

I agree this is a critical time in your ordeal and you should pick your words wisely. "Less is more" in your situation, so be very, very, careful like Jon said.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/14/2015 8:13 AM  
Yes, as Jon said the neighborhood will be paying the $13,000 if Howard doesn't but that is not Howard's fault it's the result of the poor decisions made by the BOD. It should be up to the neighborhood now if they want to risk paying not only the $13,000 but in addition to that all of the HOAs legal fees to go after Howard and risk losing in court. Then possibly down the road even having to pay Howard's legal fees, if he pursues that (I believe he mentioned in an earlier post that he would need to file a separate suit in small claims to be reimbursed for that in NC).
JonD1


Posts:0


03/14/2015 9:15 AM  
I prefer to operate in the real world.

Sending out an e-mail then identifies Howard as the other party. From that point on it is game on. You put you head in the noose and any letter to the owners demands then a response.

Most of the owners will delete the e-mail and could not be bothered as it doesn't affect them directly or in their pocket. From what I have seen the chances of a revolution taking place on Howard's behalf are slim and none. Most in the community will take no role in any of this.

So if Howard's board meeting are like most what percentage of owners might we expect to be there? Anywhere close to a recall requirement? Anyone bother to find out what that number would be? So if we have the regular less than 5% and Howard's backers who already support him just who is this going to sway? You get both sides of the story out in court if it comes to that. Not in a meeting with no legal standing.

And my point about the $13,000 cost would be tha the owners those who don't take a side either way might just not jump up to support a cause that passes this cost on to them. That's not a big selling point for Howard's view.

And just to be clear I am not ready to jump to the conclusion Howard is 100% in the right on this matter. Most here have loaded onto the bandwagon. I prefer to see something more than the opinions and details Howard provided. You see I don't think most boards lose their collecive minds all at the same time and go off to screw one owner for no real reason. I don't think most lawyers and I mean MOST there are in fact some, who would push a position that has no legs to stand on. What was said, what was agreed to, what took place is all open for interpretation and one of the reasons I wanted to read the board notice would be to collect their views. Many funny things can happen on the way to the courthouse.

Not sure how things are handled in NC but when we had a lawyer appear at our annual meeting thinking he would be attending I showed him the door. And he left. This is not a legal proceeding. As described in the letter from the board this is a discussion pertaining to unknown parties. Under no circumstances would we allow their attendance and if so no discussion from the board would take place at this meeting. Maybe in NC with this board it might be different. I would guess not.

Again, in some states it is illegal to record anyone without their KNOWLEDGE and CONSENT.
Not just one party but everyone in the room that might speak. Maybe in NC you can record people without telling them. My guess probably not.

As to support in the community. The lawyer has no idea who lives in this communiy and who might actually work to help Howard. My guess Howard does not know. Again, short of the required % to recall support means little. And unless I am mistaken the taking of legal action does not require community approval.

Scoring points in a preseason game means nothing. I would be concentrating on my response when and if I were to be served. That's when the score counts.

JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


03/14/2015 1:26 PM  
If one was to show up at a BOD meeting with their lawyer in tow to question us, I would say the BOD is not equipped to to have an open, public, legal discussion at this time. I would motion we reschedule this discussion in Executive Session when we can have all the necessary "scumbag" lawyers (my own scumbag lawyer included) included.

I would also not allow a non-owner to participate in a meeting unless the BOD so desires such a person participate. If not an owner, they are someone the BOD does not have to answer to.







AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/14/2015 2:53 PM  
Howard, is there any way you can find out if the BOD will have the HOA attorney present? (maybe another homeowner could pose the question prior to the meeting, by email or phone call?) So you can get an idea of what to expect. Although I have a feeling it will still be hard to predict.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/14/2015 3:10 PM  
JohnC,I

I agree with your statement.

IMO some lawyers do not only add to the problem they often create new ones. More complicated the case the more $$$ for them.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


03/14/2015 4:38 PM  
If you are sceptical about my honesty and have any doubt at all that I am in the wrong then move along. You are not helping me and/or my case. I am not looking to discuss this. I don't want to make enemies here and I don't want to have to make a bunch of posts defending my integrity and my honesty. I have enough problems without being called a liar. I am a man of principle. If I were not I would have already made them an offer and tried to get away with whatever I could. I stated very clearly in this forum that I admitted to being wrong in the first issue and I made the wrong right with the BOD. There is no way they would have told me the issue was over and they would not have stated so in a BOD meeting.
If the BOD thought the way to fix the pond was to fill it in with dirt then why didn't they fill in the pond at the opposite corner of my lot? I have the same exact situation in the opposite corner of my lot. I have a "pond" there as well however it is about 1/4-1/3 of the size than the one they filled in was. It is over 3' deep and a person could drown in it as easily as someone could drown in the one that was filled in. That is assuming this is the reason the BOD filled in the one I tried to beautify.
I think I mentioned that the BOD announced this issue would be open for discussion at the upcoming meeting. I don't understand how getting a few people to come to the meeting and forcing the BOD to answer questions could back fire on me. I'm not arguing, I sincerely don't understand the potential pitfalls so if someone could explain this to me I would genuinely appreciate this.Realistically I could arrange it, with the folks that have volunteered to help me, so that my name is not mentioned by them. I could also participate in the questions and answers as an just another homeowner with an interest in the issue. Is the BOD trying to trap me by announcing this will be part of the meeting agenda? Do they think I will do something that will hurt my case/cause? If so please tell me what trap they are setting.
Again, I don't expect everyone, or maybe even anyone, to assume that I am 100% correct in my position. If folks feel that I may be manipulating some of the details regarding the $13,000.00 the BOD says I owe then please don't participate in this thread. I don't want to waste time looking at why you feel I am wrong or how you know I can't be 100% in the right here. I have no interest in boosting my ego by having people get on an internet band wagon with me and my side. I believe right is right and wrong is wrong. I don't believe in the worn out "gray area". I also believe people should be held accountable for their mistakes and we ALL make some. I'll repeat for the hundredth time that I am getting completely screwed by my BOD. If I somehow contributed in any way toward the BODs decision to fill in the pond then I'd have not started this thread.
Thanks
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


03/14/2015 4:47 PM  
Amanda

The difference between your scumbag lawyer and and my scumbag lawyer is one of them is my scumbag and he is being paid by me to dump on your scumbag. If he cannot dump on your scumbag, then I will find another scumbag that can.

When in business I had two scumbags. One was a gentleman. I used him to verify/bless deals. The other was like a junk yard dog with a bone in his mouth. I used him to fight entity's like insurance companies and government. I now realize he would be whom I would hire to fight an HOA if I needed to......LOL



JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


03/14/2015 5:00 PM  
Howard

I have no issues with your honesty nor integrity. Don Quixote was an honest man.

You are the one that keeps posting over and over, ad nauseum out here. As such, you should expect varying replies. Not all are going to agree with you and say poor Howard.

I believe both you and the BOD are being stubborn about it. I believe their resources are more then yours and in the end, resources generally win out even when wrong.

I once was fired from a company. When I said to my boss, but I was right. He replied, yes you were right but your were dead right. You are still fired.



AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/14/2015 5:09 PM  
Howard,
In my opinion, I think the only thing (that you are able to control) at the meeting that could potentially hurt your case in some way, would be if you lost control and appeared to be a hot head. From your postings I don't get that impression of you. I see no risk or potential trap other than that (maybe another poster will come up with something). If it were me I'd just make the audience aware that what the BOD is saying you are in strong disagreement of and other than that say as little as possible, but observe everything.

ps. I see no reason to doubt you. The way I look at it, you would have nothing to truly gain by lying other than wasting your time.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/14/2015 5:36 PM  
ONE more bit of advice, if I were you I would use this thread as a learning tool. Look back on what may have angered/upset other posters, look at when you may have been venting anger and it may have offended some. Use that as a way to prep for the meeting (and even if you should end up appearing before a judge). People will tell you that laws are laws, facts are facts and that is true. But appearances and how you come across to the audience contribute to the impression you make, and it may matter at that meeting for you. I have found that in the real world at times public/peers opinions can and does count for something, whether or not its fair that way or not. Making the best impression like you did here (look at all the support you have received) can only help you.

Now I'll get off my soapbox. I wish you luck at the meeting!
JonD1


Posts:0


03/14/2015 6:28 PM  
Posted By HowardC2 on 03/14/2015 4:38 PM
If you are sceptical about my honesty and have any doubt at all that I am in the wrong then move along. You are not helping me and/or my case. I am not looking to discuss this. I don't want to make enemies here and I don't want to have to make a bunch of posts defending my integrity and my honesty. I have enough problems without being called a liar. I am a man of principle. If I were not I would have already made them an offer and tried to get away with whatever I could. I stated very clearly in this forum that I admitted to being wrong in the first issue and I made the wrong right with the BOD. There is no way they would have told me the issue was over and they would not have stated so in a BOD meeting.
If the BOD thought the way to fix the pond was to fill it in with dirt then why didn't they fill in the pond at the opposite corner of my lot? I have the same exact situation in the opposite corner of my lot. I have a "pond" there as well however it is about 1/4-1/3 of the size than the one they filled in was. It is over 3' deep and a person could drown in it as easily as someone could drown in the one that was filled in. That is assuming this is the reason the BOD filled in the one I tried to beautify.
I think I mentioned that the BOD announced this issue would be open for discussion at the upcoming meeting. I don't understand how getting a few people to come to the meeting and forcing the BOD to answer questions could back fire on me. I'm not arguing, I sincerely don't understand the potential pitfalls so if someone could explain this to me I would genuinely appreciate this.Realistically I could arrange it, with the folks that have volunteered to help me, so that my name is not mentioned by them. I could also participate in the questions and answers as an just another homeowner with an interest in the issue. Is the BOD trying to trap me by announcing this will be part of the meeting agenda? Do they think I will do something that will hurt my case/cause? If so please tell me what trap they are setting.
Again, I don't expect everyone, or maybe even anyone, to assume that I am 100% correct in my position. If folks feel that I may be manipulating some of the details regarding the $13,000.00 the BOD says I owe then please don't participate in this thread. I don't want to waste time looking at why you feel I am wrong or how you know I can't be 100% in the right here. I have no interest in boosting my ego by having people get on an internet band wagon with me and my side. I believe right is right and wrong is wrong. I don't believe in the worn out "gray area". I also believe people should be held accountable for their mistakes and we ALL make some. I'll repeat for the hundredth time that I am getting completely screwed by my BOD. If I somehow contributed in any way toward the BODs decision to fill in the pond then I'd have not started this thread.
Thanks





Howard you yourself admitted to working on this pond without board permission. You admit altering common property without any authority to do so.
So your view you are now 100% in the right is difficult to follow.

This is not about honesty and truth this is about perception. I have been through several lawsuits filed by property owners. Each thought going in they were 100% in the right. All but one lost their cases outright.

Unlike some others here I have been through the process. I have participated in litigation. I have testified. I have been deposed. I have dealt with HOA lawyers, criminal defense lawyers, DAs, NYS Attorney General, local courts, county courts, federal courts. Perhaps maybe I could offer you something to consider should you give up your need to defend your honesty.

So forgive me if you are unable to consider the possibility your views on this matter might be tainted by your
own position. Just why Howard has this board decided you are in need of a screwing? Do you have any idea?
If not than how does anything make sense.

And I for one have told you it will not serve you to play word games at the meeting or have others do so.
Again, if you are unable to consider the pitfalls of this strategy then proceed on and deal with the consequences
after the fact.

To be blunt Howard you come across as being very naive. YOu and you crew will now FORCE the board to answer YOUR questions. Really?

I have my doubts.

And your notion that right is right and wrong is wrong fails to even consider the reality it is YOUR version of right and wrong that you seem fixated on.
My guess the board might think they are in the right.

As you suggest I will move along. Leaving you with your cheerleaders who I guess have no real experience serving on an HOA board, who have never been to court, are no familiar with legal principles involving HOAs but seem to suggest this can only end well for you. Because based on nothing other than your version of the facts you simply can't lose.

Some people just can't help digging a deeper hole.




AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


03/14/2015 7:17 PM  
While no one can force the BOD to answer questions at the meeting. the membership that is there at the meeting will notice if they can't answer. That should make them wonder what the BOD is hiding, unless they are too naive. (That is what you want, the other owners to wonder what these people in control of their money is choosing to do with it, without their knowledge.)

I don't think I nor anyone else here has commented that this can ONLY end well for you.

This is not in court yet, you have not been served with any legal court document filed against you.

No one can predict the outcome no matter how much court experience we have under our belt. I think at one time or another all have quoted that fifty/fifty shot in court if it goes there, right or wrong. Every case is different, the details of your situation are very unique.

We are all members of the peanut gallery so take what we say with a grain of salt and apply your own common sense.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


03/15/2015 6:10 AM  
Some people may Continue digging a deeper hole and some people don't read posts. I said I was 100% right in THIS case. Yes I admitted in being in the wrong in the original case. The issue of the BOD filling in the pond with dirt is an entirely separate case/issue. The BOD can't dispose of a dispute by stating it has been resolved and then reopen it so that they can use the issue to try to rationalise their expenditures.
Accords and satisfaction.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


03/15/2015 6:10 AM  
Some people may Continue digging a deeper hole and some people don't read posts. I said I was 100% right in THIS case. Yes I admitted in being in the wrong in the original case. The issue of the BOD filling in the pond with dirt is an entirely separate case/issue. The BOD can't dispose of a dispute by stating it has been resolved and then reopen it so that they can use the issue to try to rationalise their expenditures.
Accords and satisfaction.
JohnB26


Posts:0


03/15/2015 7:29 AM  
blah blah blah

this has degenerated into a pile of Toric Ka-Ka
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