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Subject: Homeowner being sued by NC HOA
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Author Messages
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


12/12/2014 8:51 AM  
You should be able to get copies of the emails in the "Discovery period" prior to going to court. If the HOA is planning to use them as "evidence". You have the right to examine the evidence they have against you before court to develop your case. Your lawyer should be able to guide you through that process of request. That way you will know what your defense will be in court.

Hope this helps... Your most likely going to go to court and not avoid it. However, maybe the process of them releasing their information to you may bring in last minute negotiation.

Just curious... Have you talked to your insurer? They may have some resources for you on this issue. Plus you may look into the tax ramifications on the expense of legal fees. If you have legal costs due to protecting your "investment property" this may be a tax break. Which may help you in the financial arena. I was able to write off my legal expenses against my HOA during a fight against an illegal assessment. However, that was when my property was "rental" and investment property.

Former HOA President
EmmaH1


Posts:0


12/12/2014 10:04 AM  
Two more terms you may want to take the time to research:

--the "Void for Vagueness" Doctrine

--and "Due Process" (individuals must be given adequate notice of their legal obligations so they can have opportunity to behave accordingly.



MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


12/12/2014 11:46 AM  
Advice you should know... Do not make multiple calls to your lawer or emails. If they ask you who called if you miss the lawyer, do not give them your info. Just say you will wait till they are in the office to call back. You have to be carful because lawers do charge for contact. So make sure it is understood if you pay for each call or email contact.

Trying to save you money. No need in going on wild law research tangents. Just be frank and ask your attorney for advice if you are to handle the case. They most likely will explain to you the process and some steps. Which will follow the reason you hired them in the first place. They will advise you it is best for an expert instead.

This is not rocket science or a need to learn legal theories. Go to a few court sessions and observe. They do let you sit in on some trials for free. Simply take advantage of this and look at how it all works. It will give you perspective and understanding. Watching some Peoples court would not hurt either as those are real cases and how cases are handled.

Former HOA President
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/12/2014 2:41 PM  
Posted By NpS on 12/11/2014 5:42 PM
Howard

Did you request and Adjudicatory Committee Hearing in writing?
Did you receive a response in writing?
Did the BOD offer you the hearing?

These are easy yes-no questions that will help you to stay focused and not get distracted by generalizations.
Also, print a copy of what is posted on the website = Things on the website can be taken down and you would not have a copy to rely on.
I realize that you are frustrated and concerned about expense. That's why it's best to take things one small step at a time.




I did not request a hearing in writing or by any other manner because I didn't know of any dispute prior to receiving the bill along with the letter from the hoa atty. I had already settled the original issue that I had with them.
The hoa didn't offer any hearings ever.
The hoa contracted with the guy that filled the pond. He has been paid in full and was never told that I was involved. There was never any discussion between the BOD and myself about who was paying for the work. I was told at my final meeting with them that so and so was filling in the pond and the other asked me to help by pumping the water out as needed during the process. At no point was there any indication that they thought I was responsible for payment.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/12/2014 3:05 PM  
Posted By HowardC2 on 12/12/2014 2:41 PM
Posted By NpS on 12/11/2014 5:42 PM
Howard

Did you request an Adjudicatory Committee Hearing in writing?
Did you receive a response in writing?
Did the BOD offer you the hearing?

These are easy yes-no questions that will help you to stay focused and not get distracted by generalizations.
Also, print a copy of what is posted on the website = Things on the website can be taken down and you would not have a copy to rely on.
I realize that you are frustrated and concerned about expense. That's why it's best to take things one small step at a time.


I did not request a hearing in writing or by any other manner because I didn't know of any dispute prior to receiving the bill along with the letter from the hoa atty. I had already settled the original issue that I had with them.
The hoa didn't offer any hearings ever.
The hoa contracted with the guy that filled the pond. He has been paid in full and was never told that I was involved. There was never any discussion between the BOD and myself about who was paying for the work. I was told at my final meeting with them that so and so was filling in the pond and the other asked me to help by pumping the water out as needed during the process. At no point was there any indication that they thought I was responsible for payment.



Understand everything you are saying. And I agree with you that the old issue is the old issue.

But the statement you received from the HOA is a new issue. It says that you owe $13,000. And you think that you do not owe the $13,000.

So before you do anything else, your next step is to request an Adjudicatory Committee Hearing in writing. You will say that you do not owe $13,000 and that the HOA is improperly billing you for the $13,000. Tell them in writing that you want an adjudicatory hearing on the $13,000.

If they grant you a hearing, then prepare for it just like you would prepare for court.

If they do not grant you a hearing, then they are denying you your rights.

They have no obligation to offer you a hearing if you don't ask for one in writing. So follow the procedure that is already in place and give them an opportunity to do the right thing by you.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/12/2014 4:44 PM  
Posted By EmmaH1 on 12/12/2014 2:55 PM
(Even if you lose you can usually file an appeal.)

Remembers that your HOA/BODs have a lot to /risk too, if they lose. They will not only have had to pay for that contractor they also will have to pay their own lawyers legal fees and anything you could win as far as court costs, legal fees and possibly damages (and if you counter sue in your case I would ask for some kind of compensation for the stress and possible affect on you and your wife since she has been recovering from a serious illness as they are aware of.)



Unrealistic comments. Forget about damages, pain & suffering claims, and appeals. Should not move forward based on false hopes.

Attempt to work within the prescribed system (adjudicatory hearing) before looking for outside help (the courts).

If this does proceed to court, likely to become a Directors & Officers (D&O) insurance claim for your HOA, which will follow a different path than Emma describes. Too early in the process to be thinking about any of this. Get your Adjudicatory hearing if you can.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/12/2014 8:12 PM  
Posted By EmmaH1 on 12/12/2014 5:09 PM
Nps, Let's keep this about Howard and not any ego's or topping one anther. Its only fair to Howard this is his thread. (You and Melissa seem to have this tone towards me, it's not about me lets respect Howard he deserves it.)



Emma

You say you want it to be about respect for Howard, but your objection is to my tone toward YOU. Don't you see the contradiction in your own words?

What I am saying as loud as I can to Howard is "Don't get distracted." That message is highly respectful to Howard. It is also respectful to you as a novice - Newbies should first learn before anything else when and where it is appropriate to listen rather than speak - It's a skill that I do not believe you have mastered yet.

This has nothing to do with egos - certainly not mine.

What I am attempting to do is walk Howard down a step-by-step path that I have observed from personal experience can work for him. My questions are precise. My comments are specifically tailored to what Howard is saying. I am choosing from a wide range of comments that I could make if all I wanted to do was to make generalizations or score points. What I am posting has nothing to do with me. It's about helping Howard work through a dilemma without his becoming overly frustrated and scattered.

Because of the unique situation he is in, what Howard needs least is pie-in-the-sky comments that are not based on experience or direct observation.

I have seen other threads get derailed because of all this personal back-and-forth crap. If you go back and read my posts in any of those threads, you will find that I stayed with the content and did not participate in the personal junk.

Howard does not need a lot of suggestions that will only confuse him further. Someone said that his state might have a lawyer referral service. When I read it, I thought - How ridiculous - Howard already said he had a lawyer - Why would anyone suggest that he put any effort toward looking for a new one. Howard's concern was cost and lawyers who get referrals don't work for free in a case like Howard's. I did not post anything about the lawyer referral misdirection. I stayed on message with Howard and attempting to respond to his issues as he presented them. That to me is the essence of respect.

IMO, Howard has a real issue. He has gained my respect. I do not want to see his thread turned into mush like other threads have.

My comments were not about you. My comments were about the content of your message. I could have spent a page writing about the misdirection in what you were saying. But I did not because for Howard's sake, I do not want this thread derailed.

I am annoyed with myself for going through this long explanation that has nothing to do with Howard.

I don't want to disparage you. I do believe that your comments are disrespectful of me and what I am trying to convey to Howard. Personally, I am not offended. I have thick skin. But Howard is confused and may not know the difference between a voice of experience and a novice's nice-to-know offerings.

My great fear is that people are now going to add responses to this wholly unnecessary detour into egos or similar discussions. I hope that if someone wants to comment on personal stuff, they will start a new thread and not add any of that crap to Howard's thread.

Howard deserves that kind of respect - not the superficial kind.

FYI, this is my last post about personal issues on this thread.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


12/12/2014 9:30 PM  
This issue is a contracts issue. There is no such thing as collecting "Pain and Suffering" from such a case. A court system can ONLY make one "Whole". Only returning the money to the amount as if it never happened including sometimes legal fees.

The reality here is most likely this will go to court and it's best to be prepared for the "REAL WORLD" scenerios. Which includes real substantiated FACTS and NOT fantasy. You do have a right to counter-sue for your legal costs. The court will decide who gets to pay those. It could be each party responsible or one or the other pays the other party.

The advice is based on that it's just best to accept the lawsuit and work on creating the best case to help. There are still many details that we do not know or understand in this situation. We are also NOT the judge or the jury to make decisions. That will be done by a real judge when the time comes.

NPS... We have found out the one thing Emma is a expert in... Herself... Here comes the endless backlash post in series now...

Former HOA President
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/12/2014 11:05 PM  
Howard
Please let us know how they respond when you request an Adjudicatory Hearing in writing on the $13,000. Thanks.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/13/2014 5:50 AM  
Howard,

NP is offering excellent advice.

JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


12/13/2014 6:04 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 12/13/2014 5:50 AM
Howard,

NP is offering excellent advice.





I agree. Excellent and real life advice.

HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/13/2014 5:23 PM  
Posted By NpS on 12/12/2014 11:05 PM
Howard
Please let us know how they respond when you request an Adjudicatory Hearing in writing on the $13,000. Thanks.




I absolutely will do so. One thing to note. I believe the last letter from my atty to the HOA atty would comply with the procedural rule that I request a hearing. I say this because the latter is asking for a meeting with the HOA BOD regarding the $13,000. The letter also states that I am entitled to having a meeting with the HOA BOD as per our HOA documents as well as the NCGS regarding mediation between an HOA BOD and a homeowner.
If you feel I should send another letter with the specific verbiage you mention in one of the previous posts (much appreciated BTW) I can do that. If you feel the content of the letter, as I describe, is sufficient then I am just waiting for the response from the HOA atty. It will be two weeks this Tuesday since The letter was sent to the HOA Atty and I have still not heard.
Thank you for all the clear and comprehensive instructions. I know you, and several others, have spent a lot of time helping me with this issue. I also know the issue is mine and no one elses and you have all really gone out of your way in your replies and the time it took to help me.
Fingers crossed but I never believed in luck (rabbits feet, crossed fingers, superstition etc) so I am not about to start now. Good information, such as what is mostly found here, will trump luck IMO.
"Prepare for the worst and you'll rarely be disappointed" That's my motto when it comes to this HOA BOD
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/13/2014 6:23 PM  
Posted By HowardC2 on 12/13/2014 5:23 PM
Posted By NpS on 12/12/2014 11:05 PM
Howard
Please let us know how they respond when you request an Adjudicatory Hearing in writing on the $13,000. Thanks.




I absolutely will do so. One thing to note. I believe the last letter from my atty to the HOA atty would comply with the procedural rule that I request a hearing. I say this because the latter is asking for a meeting with the HOA BOD regarding the $13,000. The letter also states that I am entitled to having a meeting with the HOA BOD as per our HOA documents as well as the NCGS regarding mediation between an HOA BOD and a homeowner.
If you feel I should send another letter with the specific verbiage you mention in one of the previous posts (much appreciated BTW) I can do that.



Great Howard.

Now that you are focused, your own judgment will take you down the best path for you.

If it was me, I would send a separate request letter written by me.

A letter from a lawyer always carries the threat of litigation. A personal letter from a HO could go a long way toward easing tensions.

Also, lawyers must communicate with each other and cannot communicate directly with the other side. HOs don't have that constraint. A HO can write directly to the board members.

You decide whether it would be better for the next set of communications to be with or without lawyers. You can always bring the lawyers in later. Consult with your lawyer before you decide.

(BTW, if they offer mediation, you could suggest that lawyers be present or no lawyers be present. Never a good arrangement when one side is represented and the other isn't. If lawyers are present, the lawyers will probably try to do all the talking, and the mediator may have to put much energy toward preventing this from happening. If no lawyers are present, the conversation is typically more relaxed and open.)

All depends on what you think will get you the results you seek: elimination of $13k claim and chance to reestablish good relations between you and board. You seem to be willing to let bygones be bygones if they drop the $13k claim. That's a great starting position to have.

Please keep us informed. Thanks.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/14/2014 5:54 AM  
[QUOTE] Posted By NpS on 12/13/2014 6:23 PM

Great Howard.

Now that you are focused, your own judgment will take you down the best path for you.

If it was me, I would send a separate request letter written by me.

A letter from a lawyer always carries the threat of litigation. A personal letter from a HO could go a long way toward easing tensions.

Also, lawyers must communicate with each other and cannot communicate directly with the other side. HOs don't have that constraint. A HO can write directly to the board members.

You decide whether it would be better for the next set of communications to be with or without lawyers. You can always bring the lawyers in later. Consult with your lawyer before you decide.

(BTW, if they offer mediation, you could suggest that lawyers be present or no lawyers be present. Never a good arrangement when one side is represented and the other isn't. If lawyers are present, the lawyers will probably try to do all the talking, and the mediator may have to put much energy toward preventing this from happening. If no lawyers are present, the conversation is typically more relaxed and open.)

All depends on what you think will get you the results you seek: elimination of $13k claim and chance to reestablish good relations between you and board. You seem to be willing to let bygones be bygones if they drop the $13k claim. That's a great starting position to have.

Please keep us informed. Thanks[/QUOTE]

Thanks again.
I like to use emails when communicating with my BOD and the Hoa management company. I've come to learn that emails sent along with "return read reciept", or whatever the email program offers as a way to prove the email was retrieved from the recipients email server, is an effective way to organize and track correspondence. I've read that email, when sent using confirmation options, are better than than mailed correspondence. Can you offer your opinion on this?
We all know how emails can be retrieved and used as evidence when people think they just vaporize after being read and deleted or, "trashed". This, along with the fact that a single email often end up on the desktop of several recipients, is a big advantage in using electronic communication as opposed to mailed correspondence. The timely nature of electronic communication is yet another very attractive feature of course.
Just a thought on the use of one never the other.
Thanks again
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/20/2014 4:32 PM  
Still no word from either attorney. I sent emails to the BOD and the management company with return read receipt and delivery status and the only email notice I got was the one sent to the management company was retrieved off the mail server. None of them have been read. In the past I have received confirmation of emails being received and read and I have gotten replies from the management company confirming that the emails were sent to the BOD. I sent a second email two days later asking why my emails are not being read. Still no replies or notifications. I feel they are blocking my email address or have it going directly to junk or spam. I have another email address I'll try and I'll send USPS letters this week as well.

This is a part of the NC statute that my HOA is overlooking BTW. They have never sent out any notification to homeowners and the statute does not appear on the web site. There is a document about using an "adjudicatory committee" in case there is a dispute between the HOA and a member but this bill trumps this specific HOA document.

(j) Association Duty to Notify. - Each association shall, in writing, notify the members of the association each year that they may initiate mediation under this section to try to resolve a dispute with the association. The association shall publish the notice required in this subsection on the association's Web site; but if the association does not have a Web site, the association shall publish the notice at the same time and in the same manner as the names and addresses of all officers and board members of the association are published as provided in G.S. 47C-3-103 and G.S. 47F-3-103."
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/20/2014 6:30 PM  
Howard

Did you send a certified letter asking for and adjudicatory hearing on the $13,000?

If not, do it now. Let us know what happens.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/20/2014 8:42 PM  
Posted By NpS on 12/20/2014 6:30 PM
Howard

Did you send a certified letter asking for and adjudicatory hearing on the $13,000?

If not, do it now. Let us know what happens.




Correction: an adjudicatory hearing

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/21/2014 4:35 AM  
I hate to admit that I have not. I was hoping the emails would be sufficient. They have always been replied to in the past. I've sent them countless emails and this is the first time I've been ignored. I will be sending the certified mail tomorrow. I appreciate the advice and should have listened to your suggestion.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/21/2014 4:51 AM  
Posted By HowardC2 on 12/21/2014 4:35 AM
I will be sending the certified mail tomorrow.


Let us know what happens.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/21/2014 1:23 PM  
Right after posting a reply this AM I checked my email and there was a reply from my HOA BOD president. The email stated that, "since this matter is in the hands of our HOA attorney all communications must be addressed to him. We have been advised that our attorney will be in touch with your attorney."

So there I am. Waiting for the HOA attorney to take his sweet ass time. The content and purpose of my letter to the BOD was to inform them of their obligation to afford me the opportunity for mediation and supply them with the NC statute that requires them to notify homeowners that an opportunity for mediation is available to them if there is a dispute. This is an effort to possibly allow a settlement to an issue without costs of an attorney to both the HOA and the homeowner yet they respond by stating that correspondence must go through the attorney.
Needless to say I am writing another letter stating this and more. They are hiding behind their attorney and he, whenever he sees fit, will contact my attorney. this will cost me $4.00 per minute for them to have a needless conversation.

Thanks-I'll keep this board informed through this thread.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/21/2014 2:10 PM  
They don't need you to recite the statute to them. They already know what it says. Or at least their lawyer does.

You should not be upset that they want the lawyers to deal with each other. After all, you're the one who brought the first lawyer in. They are merely doing the same. That's the way it works. They are not hiding behind their lawyer any more than you are hiding behind your lawyer.

The good news is that they responded to your email. That at least confirms that they got your message and they sent a copy to the HOA lawyer.

I suggest that you send a copy of the emails to your lawyer so he knows what to expect.

The HOA lawyer will contact your lawyer. When your lawyer contacts you, explain your concerns and ask him for his advice. That's what you are paying him for. Don't be embarrassed.

Thanks for keeping us informed. Be sure to let us know what happens.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


12/21/2014 2:11 PM  
They can bring an attorney to the mediation. Most of the time a HOA must be represented by an attorney or board designated authority in legal matters. So even if you all agree on "mediation" you may find yourself talking the attorney anyways. Save yourself the time and money at this point in pushing for mediation. I just don't see that happening.

It would have been better for you if the HOA rules did have it in there that a mediation process is in place. However, it does not appear they allow for court type mediations. They prefer actual court itself.

I do applaud your effort to settle this. It is quite admirable. Keep it up even if we may advise you differently. You seem to be making headway someway. I just want to make sure you are prepared for the worst case scenario. Good luck. Keep us informed. Very interesting case you have.

Former HOA President
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/21/2014 4:58 PM  
Posted By NpS on 12/21/2014 2:10 PM
They don't need you to recite the statute to them. They already know what it says. Or at least their lawyer does.

You should not be upset that they want the lawyers to deal with each other. After all, you're the one who brought the first lawyer in. They are merely doing the same. That's the way it works. They are not hiding behind their lawyer any more than you are hiding behind your lawyer.

The good news is that they responded to your email. That at least confirms that they got your message and they sent a copy to the HOA lawyer.

I suggest that you send a copy of the emails to your lawyer so he knows what to expect.

The HOA lawyer will contact your lawyer. When your lawyer contacts you, explain your concerns and ask him for his advice. That's what you are paying him for. Don't be embarrassed.

Thanks for keeping us informed. Be sure to let us know what happens.




Thanks for the reply.
I didn't recite the statute BTW, I merely included a link to the NC government website where they could view the statute.
I am upset that they wish to continue using lawyers and running up my legal bills despite the fact that that there is a law suggesting they use mediation. As I mentioned, I was never given an opportunity for mediation and there is nothing on the neighborhood web site stating that homeowners are entitled to mediation. The statute states that any neighborhood that has a web site must have this statute on the site. If there is no web site then the HOA is obligated to send homeowners this statute on a yearly basis.

I did not bring the first lawyer in. I hope this is clear. The BOD attorney sent me a letter, along with the invoice for $13K, stating that the HOA is due this amount and that the amount "remains unpaid". This is the one and only correspondence I have had regarding this matter.It came from the HOA attorney, not from the BOD. After receiving the letter from the attorney I sought out my own to help defend me. I felt that I needed professional representation in light of the fact that I was having to answer directly to the HOA attorney. We may disagree regarding who is hiding behind an attorney. I have reached out the the HOA BOD with emails asking for a meeting after getting no response from their attorney to a letter asking for the same that was sent by my attorney. I personally sent two additional emails for the meeting after hearing nothing from the BOD or the HOA attorney. I would expect the BOD to answer me in the manner that I reached out to them however they are claiming they cannot talk about the case because the HOA attorney suggested that they don't. I know these people and the way they operate and I am 100% sure they are using this as an excuse to not answer my request for a meeting. It is ludicrous to think they actually believe it would somehow compromise the case or whatever TV drama term they want to throw out by answering me as a board and not through an attorney.

You say their attorney will contact my attorney and and that is what I am looking forward to although I would be much more satisfied if the BOD responded to me directly. I don't feel like this should be such a drawn out process. I need to get this put behind me one way or another and they are dragging their feet. I want a meeting and they are not responding. This type of behavior is not business like and the HOA is a business and it should be run like one. Good businesses communicate. Any business that demonstrates poor communication is going to lag and/or fail. This HOA BOD is too pathetic to stand up and face me on a person to person level. This is frustrating and expensive to me and the other HOA members. I am not hiding. I am completely open to the BOD responses. Too bad they are slow in coming.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/21/2014 6:27 PM  
Howard

Whether you sent them a link or a copy of the statute, it's the same thing. The point I was making is that they know the statute better than you do.

Yes the HOA attorney sent you a demand letter for the $13k, but you then brought your own attorney in. I am not finding fault. I am merely saying that once you bring your own attorney in, the HOA attorney is going to instruct the BOD not to communicate with you - And that is what the BOD Prez said to you in his email. Once again, I am emphasizing that all of this is normal - because I do not want you to get the impression that by bringing their lawyer in they are out to get you. They will not communicate with you because you have a lawyer representing you - as the notice you got said, all communication from the HOA will go through the lawyers.

Mediation is still a possibility. If you look back at one of my prior posts to you, I talked about mediation with lawyers and mediation without lawyers. This is a question that you should bring to your lawyer when you meet with him.

While you may expect the BOD to respond to you personally via email, their lawyer is telling them not to. That's not wrong. That's not right. That's just the way it is. They are not using it as an excuse to do anything. They are following the instruction of the HOA lawyer which is what they should be doing.

While you may not want it to be a drawn out process, you have no control over that and you should not overreact if things don't happen as quickly as you would like. Their behavior is very business-like. They act one way when there is no threat of litigation - but as soon as there is a threat of litigation, everything changes. That's the way businesses operate. I know that this may seem improper to you, but once again, that is the way it is.

It is frustrating and expensive through no fault of your own. If you want to spend your money wisely, then prepare for your meeting with your lawyer. Talk to him about mediation. Talk to him about what you want and what you don't want. Listen to him. He will tell you what your options are. He will also talk with the HOA attorney. Maybe they can work things out.

If you want to save money, then don't spend your time with your lawyer talking about how you are being mistreated now. What matters is what happened before they sent you the $13k bill and what is going to happen next. Bring him a copy of the satisfaction letter. Make sure he understands the history. Ask him what he thinks you can do on your own. Ask him if he thinks you can recover your legal fees. Spend your time with him wisely.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/22/2014 4:45 AM  
Good points all. When I have met with my attorney I have kept the meetings on point. It is difficult to avoid rehashing the previous dispute I had with the BOD however I do my best to avoid talking about it. This threatened suit is an entirely different subject and I try to focus on only this issue. My lawyer needed a history which I provided. Even still, during our subsequent meeting, he kept talking about the past issue. It's imperative I stay on topic with him or else the clock will bury me.
I'll keep everyone informed.
Thanks
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


12/22/2014 9:01 AM  
Howard,
I believe you would be the one to choose who "they" respond to (your attorney or directly to you). If you would like them to respond directly to you then send them a letter stating so, you can always show the response to your attorney if you choose. I would not allow them to make these choices for me. (You decide when you want to pay your attorney and for what!)
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


12/22/2014 11:48 AM  
Posted By AmandaR2 on 12/22/2014 9:01 AM
Howard,
I believe you would be the one to choose who "they" respond to (your attorney or directly to you). If you would like them to respond directly to you then send them a letter stating so, you can always show the response to your attorney if you choose. I would not allow them to make these choices for me. (You decide when you want to pay your attorney and for what!)


Definitely a possibility Amanda. And Howard should talk to his lawyer about it.

But I do think that Howard should give the 2 lawyers an opportunity to discuss the matter first. Howard's lawyer is likely to find things out from a conversation with the HOA lawyer that Howard might not get on his own. Things could go a lot faster and smoother for Howard.

So let the next communication be lawyer to lawyer. Then Howard should meet with his lawyer and decide whether to go it alone or proceed with counsel. If Howard and his lawyer decide that Howard should go it alone, the HOA can be notified then.






Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


12/22/2014 3:37 PM  
Howard,

What exactly has the board and their lawyer sent to you so far? from reading your posts it seems that so far the only written communication from them to you is one bill/demand of payment sent to you? You say that the bill was sent to you from the HOA attorney? What exactly was the exact verbiage contained in this one letter? did the attorney threaten legal action? if so what action was threatened, lien, litigation? Also, what is the time line of all this, how long ago was this letter sent to you? was it sent certified?

Also you say you had an attorney send a letter back to the board or their attorney? what were the contents of that letter to them? was it a cease and desist letter? did their HOA attorney respond in writing back to this letter? if so what was the response?

If I were in your shoes I would not give a second thought to any rumors that may get back to your ears from other neighbors (they may be wanting things to get back to you to scare you). I would only pay attention to what comes to you in writing and signed by their HOA attorney. (Even in that case sometimes attorneys play games, sending out "scare letters" and "testing the waters". The attorney you choose should be experienced enough to recognize these kinds of tactics. Make sure you have a attorney that you can trust and has enough experience and aggressiveness (in my experience some HOA attorneys tend to be very bold frequently using intimidation, be careful not to fall prey to these types of antics.) Some attorneys look at situations like this as a game of "chess".
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


12/22/2014 4:25 PM  
Posted By AmandaR2 on 12/22/2014 3:37 PM
Howard,

What exactly has the board and their lawyer sent to you so far? from reading your posts it seems that so far the only written communication from them to you is one bill/demand of payment sent to you? You say that the bill was sent to you from the HOA attorney? What exactly was the exact verbiage contained in this one letter? did the attorney threaten legal action? if so what action was threatened, lien, litigation? Also, what is the time line of all this, how long ago was this letter sent to you? was it sent certified?

Also you say you had an attorney send a letter back to the board or their attorney? what were the contents of that letter to them? was it a cease and desist letter? did their HOA attorney respond in writing back to this letter? if so what was the response?

If I were in your shoes I would not give a second thought to any rumors that may get back to your ears from other neighbors (they may be wanting things to get back to you to scare you). I would only pay attention to what comes to you in writing and signed by their HOA attorney. (Even in that case sometimes attorneys play games, sending out "scare letters" and "testing the waters". The attorney you choose should be experienced enough to recognize these kinds of tactics. Make sure you have a attorney that you can trust and has enough experience and aggressiveness (in my experience some HOA attorneys tend to be very bold frequently using intimidation, be careful not to fall prey to these types of antics.) Some attorneys look at situations like this as a game of "chess".





Amanda

Do I recognize you? Perhaps you live in the same town I live in?

HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/23/2014 5:24 AM  
I don't feel that writing the exact verbiage is necessary but I'll do so in a subsequent posting some feel it is.
The one, and only, letter I received was from the hoa atty. It stated Iowed $13k for work contracted by the bBOD to fill in the pond. It stated this amount was, "past due" which is odd because I was never made aware of any amount of money owed/billed/what have you. Along with the letter was an invoice for the work done. It was a copy from the contractor and the To:was addressed to my hoa. The bill spelled out an original estimate amount of $6k and an additional amount of $7k for extra fill required because, they claim, I gave an inaccurate estimate of the depth of the pond. This claim is ridiculous. I mentioned to the contractor and a bod member during a casual conversation that the pond was 4' deep. This was in response to a question the same asked me as they were standing on my property assessing the job and how to access the area with dump trucks. I came out and asked what was happening and they told me they were getting ready to start. One asked in a sort of curious manner, "how deep do you think that far end is". I simply gave them my opinion. I know the depth I gave was accurate with a couple of lame inches but the contractor used this number for his estimate and somehow was able to convince the board that my number was 115%wrong and he got another $7k out of them.
The letter also stated that if the amount remained unpaid for two weeks a lien would be filed against me. The letter also talked about the work I had done previously which was completely resolved but popped up again in association with this bill and threat of lien.
My atty communicated via email with the hoa atty and stated all the facts that surrounded the issue and the history if the previous issue. I was copied. The hoa atty responded to the email from my atty after I asked my butt to contact him. He called the hoa atty and he said there position has not changed and they still plan on suing me. I asked my atty to respond by asking for a face to face meeting to try and resolve thisbbill/issue. There has been no response thus far from the hoa attorney.
My atty is not a fan of the powers that hoas have. He is aggressive but a realist and he explained the time he would have to spend to see this through the courts and mentioned that I may do well to settle. This isn't an option in my mind currently. I don't want to pay a slim dime.
Thanls
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


12/29/2014 10:58 PM  
Howard:

Here is where this does not make sense. Most all single family subdivision CCR's state that for any common area property governed by the Association that all costs are to be split equally between all homeowners to maintain and improve. Therefore, if the BOD voted to fill in an HOA controlled retention pond … where does it state in your CCR's that a single homeowner is responsible for the cost for a decision made by the Board of Directors?

My HOA also has a drainage area … and it would be a cold day before the neighbor living next to it would be solely responsible for any maintenance of said area. It is Association controlled area and all homeowners are equally responsible to maintain and improve per our governing documents. In most single family subdivisions a single owner can only be held responsible for "damages" they cause to Association property. You personally did not authorize the filling in of the retention area, the contractor did not bill you for the work done, etc., so you potentially in no way can be held liable for payment … unless you have something in your governing documents (CCR's) stating otherwise.

JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


12/29/2014 11:07 PM  
Your BOD and HOA Attorney have to provide you with proof via your governing documents that you are responsible for the cost. If your attorney has not asked for this proof then potentially you need to seek another attorney.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


12/30/2014 4:31 AM  
Thanks Janet, I will use the information you need provided the next time I see my attorney. At this point I am not in love with the way my attorney is handling things and I am ready to go it alone anyway due to mounting fees.
Have a good new year.
Thanks
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


12/30/2014 6:02 AM  
Never trust a lawyer who says "I will do whatever you tell me to do...". That usually means there are other options which may or may not take their expertise. They will not tell you the options or discuss them, then do some additional research. Not saying that they are doing anything "wrong" in saying that statement. Just know what that actually means...

I was lucky in that I took some legal courses in college. So I understand the attorney and legal system setup. I used Lawyers as "tools" to do the things I can not do without a license. They knew this and they did tell me they would proceed with the option I choose. However, it was after we discussed options and needs on a professional level and not emotional. You have to keep emotion out of the equation and legal recourse in. Which means court can ONLY make you WHOLE not rich... The lawyer can run those costs up with no guarantee with seeing that money back... Be very careful when hiring lawyers and their charges... Make sure you get a break down prior to hiring so you know if an email or phone call is charged. Retainer what is that? Do I need to have one? What is the hourly rate and minimum hour charged? When do you pay court costs? Can I do somethings on my own? Can I hire you just for consultation? What kind of lawyer do I need?

Former HOA President
JohnB26


Posts:0


12/30/2014 9:43 AM  
Never trust a lawyer who says "I will do whatever you tell me to do...". That usually means there are other options which may or may not take their expertise. They will not tell you the options or discuss them, then do some additional research. Not saying that they are doing anything "wrong" in saying that statement. Just know what that actually means...



SOUND ADVICE
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


12/30/2014 9:58 AM  
Posted By HowardC2 on 12/30/2014 4:31 AM
Thanks Janet, I will use the information you need provided the next time I see my attorney. At this point I am not in love with the way my attorney is handling things and I am ready to go it alone anyway due to mounting fees.
Have a good new year.
Thanks




Your attorney does not seem like he is doing what is best for you, unless there is missing information that you have not been able to share/post here yet. Seek the advice of other attorneys and do your own homework.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


01/01/2015 8:56 PM  
Posted By HowardC2 on 12/30/2014 4:31 AM
Thanks Janet, I will use the information you need provided the next time I see my attorney. At this point I am not in love with the way my attorney is handling things and I am ready to go it alone anyway due to mounting fees.
Have a good new year.
Thanks


This potentially should not cost you much with regards to your attorney … he just needs to draft a short one page demand letter asking where the governing documents state that you you owe any money and why/how a single owner can be held financially liable for a decision made by the Board of Directors regarding HOA controlled property. He can also point out that you did not request the work to be performed, you did not hire the contractor, and the contractor did not bill you personally … he billed the HOA as it was the BOD who hired him to perform the work. Again, the BOD and their attorney are responsible for providing proof that they have a right to bill you or pursue you for said costs … they are responsible for researching and the burden of proof. Your attorney just needs to put that shoe on their foot. While I also try to avoid attorneys there are some things that pack a better punch when it comes from a good attorney, such as a demand letter in your situation.

Debt collection laws must be followed … keep in mind if your credit card company sent you a bill for $13,000 for a charge you did not authorize they have the burden to prove you authorized or made the charge.

Happy New Year and good luck.
JohnB26


Posts:0


01/02/2015 5:25 AM  
the OP's post:

I'll try to summarize by saying that I tried to beautify this sediment trap by cleaning it out,installing a pond liner and filling it so it would be a pond instead of a mosquito pit that holds water depending upon the rains and water table


since the OP took it upon himself to modify an engineered water retention facility he 'may' be liable for the 'removal' expenses of his work
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


01/02/2015 7:03 AM  
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/02/2015 5:25 AM
the OP's post:

I'll try to summarize by saying that I tried to beautify this sediment trap by cleaning it out,installing a pond liner and filling it so it would be a pond instead of a mosquito pit that holds water depending upon the rains and water table


since the OP took it upon himself to modify an engineered water retention facility he 'may' be liable for the 'removal' expenses of his work


As I understand it, he made those changes and got a satisfaction letter from the HOA. So he shouldn't be burdened with any additional expense.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


01/02/2015 2:22 PM  
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/02/2015 5:25 AM
the OP's post:

I'll try to summarize by saying that I tried to beautify this sediment trap by cleaning it out,installing a pond liner and filling it so it would be a pond instead of a mosquito pit that holds water depending upon the rains and water table


since the OP took it upon himself to modify an engineered water retention facility he 'may' be liable for the 'removal' expenses of his work




Please forget the implications of any county/federal/local/government wrongdoing. There was no "facility" tampered with and my BOD is (was?) completely satisfied with the work I did to correct my mistake. Most of that was, in fact, removing material I had installed. Above and beyond the satisfaction of the board regarding this matter they are now seeking money for work they decided they wanted done and contracted themselves. The work they had done was far above and beyond any type of rectification they feel needed to be done due to any prior work I did. Regardless of this, the BOD and I, completely resolved the original matter. I greatly appreciate the help here but I know that some are writing without reading prior posts. No big deal. I don't mind rehashing but many may>
Thanks
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


01/02/2015 2:38 PM  
Howard,
Why after they had settled everything with you did they then decide to hire a contractor? and agree to paying him? If everything was to their satisfaction, what was their reason? did a problem occur in the sediment trap after you fixed it? Some things just don't make sense in this situation.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


01/02/2015 5:52 PM  
Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/02/2015 2:38 PM
Howard,
Why after they had settled everything with you did they then decide to hire a contractor? and agree to paying him? If everything was to their satisfaction, what was their reason? did a problem occur in the sediment trap after you fixed it? Some things just don't make sense in this situation.


Amanda

We are on the third page of Howard's thread. Howard has done an excellent job of spelling out all of the facts to the best of his ability. I suggest that you go back and review the thread for the answers to your questions which he has already answered.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


01/02/2015 10:22 PM  
Posted By NpS on 01/02/2015 5:52 PM
Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/02/2015 2:38 PM
Howard,
Why after they had settled everything with you did they then decide to hire a contractor? and agree to paying him? If everything was to their satisfaction, what was their reason? did a problem occur in the sediment trap after you fixed it? Some things just don't make sense in this situation.


Amanda

We are on the third page of Howard's thread. Howard has done an excellent job of spelling out all of the facts to the best of his ability. I suggest that you go back and review the thread for the answers to your questions which he has already answered.




AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


01/03/2015 6:50 AM  
I've read all posts. I have to agree with Janet's post to have an attorney send a demand letter, requiring proof that Howard would be responsible for this work. What is puzzling is that his attorney has not done this yet? it seems odd. That's why I was asked what the explanation was for having the work done in the first place was. I don't agree with what the HOA is trying to do to Howard. I just wondered what their given reason was, to spend six thousand dollars to fill the area in (after they agreed Howard had brought it back to the original condition).

Where I was going with my questioning was this.....If the "original condition" was not acceptable (and they signed off it was brought back to it's "original condition") and they're legally responsible for the area, then they were negligent in the first place (before Howard even touched the area).

Good Luck to you,
Howard
JohnB26


Posts:0


01/03/2015 1:08 PM  
If you truly believe you are in the right AND a competent attorney agrees, then:

Have all further communications through your attorney (who will decide when and if you need to actually sue them) - or wait it out until / if they sue you and THEN petition for a declaratory judgment + costs + attorney fees.

IMO: have your attorney send the BOD + the BOD's attorney + the registered agent a copy of your satisfaction letter certified mail return receipt requested.


? food for thought ? did the person(s) signing the letter ACTUALLY have the required authority ? did the letter have the corporate seal imprinted ? if not, you may have to go after them as individuals
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


01/04/2015 3:14 PM  
The letter came from the HOA attorney and was signed by this attorney. I am still waiting for the reply regarding my request for a meeting. This request was made over a month ago but these people are not responding to my request that the matter be resolved at the first of the year at the latest.
I hate having this hang over my head but I have to play the game I guess.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


01/04/2015 4:43 PM  
Howard

As the association's letter came from their attorney, I expect the BOD will not directly communicate with you so do not hold your breath. Seems they have turned the issue over to their attorney.


HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


01/05/2015 5:35 AM  
My very first post States that I got a letter from the hoa attorney. It was being handled through the Hoa attorney from the beginning..
HowardC2
(North Carolina)

Posts:80


01/07/2015 4:59 PM  
I have been informed that the HOA BOD would like to meet with me. I have not yet been given a date/time.
I'd like to appeal to the contributors of this thread and ask for a "check list" of items I need to make sure I get satisfactory answers to. Any input on what I need to specifically address and perhaps how to best present my case before this BOD.
I can easily go back and dissect all the information here as well. Just thought I'd throw this out there as a way of maybe condensing the talking points etc.
Many thanks.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


01/09/2015 9:53 PM  
Howard:

As previously discussed these would be my questions and talking points if I was in your situation:

1. If the BOD voted to fill in an HOA controlled retention pond … where does it state in the CCR's that a single homeowner is responsible for the cost for a decision made by the Board of Directors regarding HOA controlled property?

Since usually in an HOA all said property expenses are shared between owners for common areas this question is where they must prove their case.

All you need to possibly do after this question is point out the facts, if necessary:

1. You personally did not authorize the filling in of the retention area.

2. The contractor did not bill you for the work done, so you cannot be held liable for payment (the contractor billed the HOA who authorized the work)… unless you have something in your governing documents (CCR's) stating otherwise. Which again they must prove who is responsible for payment.

I am a firm believer in the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid). As I stated it is their responsibility to prove they have the right to bill you for said work. If any issue is presented about contractor asking your opinion on depth of pond. Point out that you were not the contractor and you were not responsible for determining the cost of the work to be performed. Your personal opinion because you had "waded" in the pond area in past does not make you a contractor expert or responsible for any "solicited" personal opinion. It is the BOD and Contractor's obligation to determine and agree on any cost with regards to property you do not personally own.

I would simply (KISS) stick to point they must prove right to bill a single owner for BOD choosing to fill HOA owned retention pond ... And stay on this narrow topic. Your past action in "beautifying" is mute point as you returned to original condition with said work approved by the BOD via letter you received stating all OK.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


01/10/2015 6:11 AM  
Howard, IMO Janet gave you the absolute perfect advice. Stick to your points and keep your cool. Good Luck to you!

Janet, I love your reference to the KISS method---funny and so true!
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4211


01/10/2015 11:27 AM  
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


01/10/2015 11:37 AM  
Howard
You should also ask your HOA to reimburse you for your lawyer fees. If I were you, I would negotiate on this point, but hold firm on everything else.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


01/10/2015 2:30 PM  
Posted By NpS on 01/10/2015 11:37 AM
Howard
You should also ask your HOA to reimburse you for your lawyer fees. If I were you, I would negotiate on this point, but hold firm on everything else.



IMO this meeting Howard's having with the Board would not be the time to ask them to reimburse his legal fees. Both sides will probably need time after the meeting to digest the information they receive. Honestly IMO if he's lucky enough to get this taken care of out of the courtroom, and things go his his way, he may just have to eat his lawyer fees. IMO it would be very unrealistic to think the BOD would agree to pay his lawyer fees unless a judge ordered them to do so.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


01/10/2015 3:38 PM  
Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 2:30 PM
Posted By NpS on 01/10/2015 11:37 AM
Howard
You should also ask your HOA to reimburse you for your lawyer fees. If I were you, I would negotiate on this point, but hold firm on everything else.


IMO this meeting Howard's having with the Board would not be the time to ask them to reimburse his legal fees. Both sides will probably need time after the meeting to digest the information they receive. Honestly IMO if he's lucky enough to get this taken care of out of the courtroom, and things go his his way, he may just have to eat his lawyer fees. IMO it would be very unrealistic to think the BOD would agree to pay his lawyer fees unless a judge ordered them to do so.


1. There are no surprises here. The Board knows what's happened. Howard knows what happened. The big question is whether the Board is going to drop its claims against Howard.

2. Howard will do an excellent job of laying out his arguments - that he desires to be a good member of the community, that he relied on the Board's satisfaction letter, that the Board contracted for the services after the Board sent Howard the satisfaction letter, etc. Howard can also tell them that if the Board had respected its own satisfaction letter, he would not have had any legal fees.

3. I was recommending a negotiation strategy to Howard. If he goes in and only talks about the contractor costs, the Board will try to negotiate on those contractor costs only. If instead, Howard goes in and talks about the contractor costs plus his legal fees, the Board may eat the contractor costs and negotiate on Howard's legal costs.

4. I believe that the Board's position is very weak. It is because of this weakness, that I recommend that Howard ask the Board to make him whole (put him in the same position as if the board had not pursued these claims against Howard.)

5. I stand by my original recommendation: "If I were you, I would negotiate on [the legal fees], but hold firm on everything else." What I was saying is that Howard should ask for the fees, but be willing to absorb them himself if the Board covers the full contractor cost.

6. Re you comment that asking for legal fees is unrealistic, I disagree. The Board will be sizing Howard up at this meeting. They should be put on notice that, in addition to the contractor fees, they may have to eat their own legal fees plus Howard's legal fees.

7. Using your KISS principle - Howard has a right to be put in a position he would have been financially if the Board had lived up to its stated position in the satisfaction letter - Simple, simple, simple.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


01/10/2015 4:30 PM  
Respectfully NPS, I still disagree with your advice. IMO it's very unrealistic and unheard of to recover legal fees without going to court. I'm sure the board has enough common sense to know this and wouldn't take him seriously if he asked them for reimbursement of his legal fees. Keep it simple, don't come across as greedy or foolish. State the facts and questions that Janet summed up for you Howard, IMO best advice. Don't complicate things any further by playing games. (I agree with NPS that the Board has a weak case against you but they aren't probably aren't looking at it that way!) My opinion, no game playing, just stick to the KISS method Janet described and good luck to you!

Sorry NPS, IMO that's not good advice in this situation.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


01/10/2015 4:39 PM  
Howard, I would not go in with a negotiation strategy, I would go in with the intent to make it clear to the BOD that you are NOT responsible for the contractor costs that they incurred. Like Janet describes ask them to PROVE otherwise. SIMPLE. See what their response is then take it from there.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


01/10/2015 5:47 PM  
Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
Respectfully NPS, I still disagree with your advice.

Then we will agree to disagree.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
IMO it's very unrealistic and unheard of to recover legal fees without going to court.

Your terms "unrealistic" and "unheard of" are "off the wall." Where I come from "everything is negotiable." And you do not have to go to court go make a claim that you COULD recover legal fees if you did go to court.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
I'm sure the board has enough common sense to know this and wouldn't take him seriously if he asked them for reimbursement of his legal fees.

Quite the contrary. Being "MADE WHOLE" is a legal concept. It is the general principle that every judge applies when assessing financial restitution. It may be your opinion that the Board will not take him seriously, but I think differently. I think that the Board is now willing to meet with Howard because they got caught with their pants down and they are now aware of it.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
Keep it simple, don't come across as greedy or foolish.

There's nothing greedy about recovering your actual cost. There's nothing foolish about ASKING to be MADE WHOLE.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
State the facts and questions that Janet summed up for you Howard, IMO best advice.

No objection.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
Don't complicate things any further by playing games.

Having a negotiating strategy involves having a OPENING POSITION and a FALLBACK POSITION. Anyone going into any meeting of this nature should realize that they are going into a negotiation and that they do need a negotiating strategy if they want to maximize the opportunity. If you call this playing games, I think that you are being short-sighted.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
(I agree with NPS that the Board has a weak case against you but they aren't probably aren't looking at it that way!)

We have no way of knowing how the Board is looking at it. But we do know this. They know that Howard is represented by counsel and pursuing this in court could be expensive for the association, especially where there is the risk that a court could award Howard legal fees to MAKE HIM WHOLE. Also, We can be fairly certain that the HOA lawyer has explained the weaknesses of the Board's case to the Board.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
My opinion, no game playing,

In other words, don't have a strategy. Just go in there and hope for the best. Sorry Emma, I don't think that Howard should go in without a strategy.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
just stick to the KISS method Janet described and good luck to you!

Howard can keep it just as simple by saying that he wants to be MADE WHOLE because that is what he thinks a judge would do. That's about as simple a statement that Howard can make.

Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 4:30 PM
Sorry NPS, IMO that's not good advice in this situation.

Not a problem. You are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AmandaR2
(South Carolina)

Posts:566


01/10/2015 6:03 PM  
NPS, this is not about you, I'm sorry your so offended. I'm sure Howard, the Board and everyone reading this knows that most parties ask for legal fees to be paid for by the oposite party, and that the courts decide if any party is awarded them. I still agree with the very simple advice Janet provided and don't agree with your strategy but that's just my opinion.

NPS, no one is right or wrong here, were all trying to help. I hope Howard makes the best decision for his situation, whatever advice he takes! I'm sure you do to. You seem to take criticism way too personally, which is hard for me to understand since you seem to be a long time contributor.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


01/10/2015 6:14 PM  
Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/10/2015 6:03 PM
NPS, this is not about you, I'm sorry your so offended. I'm sure Howard, the Board and everyone reading this knows that most parties ask for legal fees to be paid for by the oposite party, and that the courts decide if any party is awarded them. I still agree with the very simple advice Janet provided and don't agree with your strategy but that's just my opinion.

NPS, no one is right or wrong here, were all trying to help. I hope Howard makes the best decision for his situation, whatever advice he takes! I'm sure you do to. You seem to take criticism way too personally, which is hard for me to understand since you seem to be a long time contributor.


Thanks for confirming that you are who I thought you are. Nothing personal. No offense taken. As before, my support is behind Howard all the way.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
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