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Subject: Can HOA rules restrict parking on paublic street?
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RobT2
(Florida)

Posts:3


07/10/2014 6:44 PM  
Hi Everyone,
Sure glad I found this site. I've been lurking for a few weeks and appreciate all the good comments and advice.
I am a newly elected President of an HOA here in Florida, been an original owner for 9 years and we've been arguing the "parking on the street" issue since day one.
We are rewriting the bylaws and we would like to add a "no parking on public streets from 10 pm- 6 am". or something along those lines.

My question is- If the bylaw passes the board and community approval, can we legally uphold that bylaw or does county law supersede any HOA bylaw?

Our concern is that someone can say its a public street and the HOA can't enforce the "no parking" rule?

Thanks in advance.
Rob
RichardP13


Posts:0


07/10/2014 7:04 PM  
My guess is that it isn't the bylaws that need to be changed but the CCRs which handle those kind of restrictions and also give the Board the authority to enforce that type of rule or the ability to create a rule, so long as it is "fair and reasonable".
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


07/10/2014 7:06 PM  
Sorry but you can not supercede local, county, or state laws. You can be more restrictive but must conform and meet the laws. That should always be written in your CC&Rs.

Public streets are just that... Public. You can still request parking in garages is preferred but not the streets.

Former HOA President
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/10/2014 7:57 PM  
Rob,


Contrary to what Melissa stated, as indicated by this 2012 newspaper article in Arizona, it is possible to regulate parking on private streets. However, as Richard said, the rule needs to be within the CC&Rs, the restriction is then within the terms of the contract. Said terms could then be upheld on members only (as they are the only ones who agreed with those terms). The restriction should also be able to be applied to renters but upheld through the members (as the member is responsible for the actions of their tenants).

You would not be able to enforce that restriction on joe public who just wanted to park their RV on a safe street.


TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/10/2014 8:00 PM  
Sorry, I hit submit too early.

My suggestion is to run the issue by the Association attorney and have them suggest the language needed.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


07/10/2014 8:19 PM  
Tim the OP said this is a Public street not private. One can restrict on private but not public unless they go to the city and get an ordinance. Which in our case just allowedmus to have painted curbs over signs. However, city still controlled and owned the roads.

Former HOA President
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/10/2014 8:21 PM  
Here are some threads within this forum where the issue has been discussed before (please do not reactivate those threads):

Subject: Florida - law enforcement parking on street

Subject: CRR vs. County Ordinances - parking on street

Subject: Arizona trying to eliminating HOA street parking ban Side note, that law was actually passed and signed by the governor. However, it only applies to HOAs who record CC&Rs in 2015 forward. See http://legiscan.com/AZ/bill/SB1278/2013 for more info.


Additional thoughts on the topic - there may be County or State requirements for when the roads were turned over by the developer to the County/State that if the developer didn't reserve the right of the Association to impose restrictions at a later date, then regardless of what document the restriction is in, the restriction might not stand up to a legal challenge. See 2005 article from attorneys on the topic for Associations located in Virginia.



Again, this is why I recommend running the idea through your Association attorney.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/10/2014 8:25 PM  
Melissa,

I understand that it is a private street. I disagree that they need an ordinance for restrictions. I believe I've added enough links to support my belief.

Granted, the ability to restrict public street parking varies from State to State. However, that is not the same as saying you can't restrict or you can only restrict if you have an ordinance for it. Again, I provided some links for anyone that wishes to dive into the topic in more detail.


TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/10/2014 8:32 PM  
here is a legal case supporting such a ban:

Maryland Estates v Puckett Missouri 1996
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


07/10/2014 8:33 PM  
Our city required us to request an ordinace when we had our roads turned over to public and wanted 1 side of the road parking. This was due to narrow roads and emergency vehicles getting stuck. I drove around with the fire marshall and city rep to get it done. However, the city required signs every few hundred feet or so saying no parking. Which looked tacky and caused yard cutting issues. So we went to the CODE people to have our curbs painted instead.

The city then still in charge of enforcing those restrictions NOT us. The city writes tickets. We just restrict people to park in garages or driveways. No abandoned or working on cars in yard or street.

Former HOA President
RichardP13


Posts:0


07/10/2014 8:43 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/10/2014 7:06 PM
Sorry but you can not supercede local, county, or state laws. You can be more restrictive but must conform and meet the laws. That should always be written in your CC&Rs.

Public streets are just that... Public. You can still request parking in garages is preferred but not the streets.



Wondering how you can't supercede local, county or state laws, but be more restrictive.???? How does that work exactly?
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/10/2014 9:08 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/10/2014 8:43 PM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/10/2014 7:06 PM
Sorry but you can not supercede local, county, or state laws. You can be more restrictive but must conform and meet the laws. That should always be written in your CC&Rs.

Public streets are just that... Public. You can still request parking in garages is preferred but not the streets.



Wondering how you can't supercede local, county or state laws, but be more restrictive.???? How does that work exactly?





By preventing members and residents by parking on the street but not the general public (which is what the MO court opinion said)that the CC&Rs were a contract and the Association was simply enforcing the terms of the contract.







NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


07/11/2014 4:56 AM  
Posted By RobT2 on 07/10/2014 6:44 PM


We are rewriting the bylaws and we would like to add a "no parking on public streets from 10 pm- 6 am". or something along those lines.




As a first step, you might want to contact your local streets department and ask whether they would be willing to institute such restrictions or if they have instituted such restrictions in similar situations to yours. You can always offer to pay for the signs if they place those signs at your preferred locations.



Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnB26


Posts:0


07/11/2014 8:13 AM  
CCRs - covenants and restrictions, a/k/a "the contract"

By-Laws - how the CORPORATION is operated

Resolutions - BOD rules governing the use of common elements


Unless restricted in the actual CCRs you may NOT make a rule restricting a public (non HOA owned) element

Such rule, in any event, would NOT be proper for the corporate By-Laws

These are the FACTS of the situation

If you can get the membership to contractually agree with public street parking restrictions (said restrictions would ONLY apply to HOA OWNERS) you may amend the CCRs as per the included procedure

Said restrictions re; public streets would NOT apply to:

Vendors
Contractors
Visitors
Guests
etc.

they would apply ONLY to people who CONTRACTED AMONGST THEMSELVES

then: ? enforcement ? equally against ALL members !


FUH~GED~'BOUT~IT
JohnB26


Posts:0


07/11/2014 8:15 AM  
Posted By TimB4 on 07/10/2014 9:08 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/10/2014 8:43 PM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/10/2014 7:06 PM





By preventing members and residents by parking on the street but not the general public (which is what the MO court opinion said)that the CC&Rs were a contract and the Association was simply enforcing the terms of the contract.











NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


07/11/2014 8:59 AM  
Posted By NpS on 07/11/2014 4:56 AM
Posted By RobT2 on 07/10/2014 6:44 PM


We are rewriting the bylaws and we would like to add a "no parking on public streets from 10 pm- 6 am". or something along those lines.




As a first step, you might want to contact your local streets department and ask whether they would be willing to institute such restrictions or if they have instituted such restrictions in similar situations to yours. You can always offer to pay for the signs if they place those signs at your preferred locations.






John

I was recommending that the OP approach the public authorities to see if the appropriate govt agency would be willing to impose more restrictive measures to these particular streets than are currently in place.

If the public officials respond positively, then the change can be made by the govt and the HOA will not be imposing requirements on anyone.

I believe that this approach would fit within the public/private distinctions that you described.



Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnB26


Posts:0


07/11/2014 10:04 AM  
I sincerely hope the government will do what is best for the ENTIRE public at large and not merely what a vocal HOA would like.

We HOA members are NOT in charge of the public domain other than as tax paying citizens.

NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


07/11/2014 10:56 AM  
Skeptical Remark: Typically government officials are responsive to requests that promote their getting re-elected.

Pragmatic Remark: Offering to pay for the signs that the HOA would like installed makes the official's decision easier.

Common Sense Remark: We work hard to maintain good relations with our local officials. We wouldn't ask for anything inappropriate or that would jeopardize their ability to make independent decisions.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnB26


Posts:0


07/11/2014 1:24 PM  
The decisions have ALREADY been made.

The streets are public with appropriate parking rules ALREADY in place.

Y'all don't like to see vehicles parked out in the open.

Get over it.

The HOA should MYOB and not attempt to control a public street.

If y'all wanted control over the very streets y'all should have built a private enclave with private streets.

Take care of your HOA affairs and then MYOB.
BanksS


Posts:0


07/11/2014 1:41 PM  
Posted By JohnB26 on 07/11/2014 8:13 AM




they would apply ONLY to people who CONTRACTED AMONGST THEMSELVES

then: ? enforcement ? equally against ALL members !


FUH~GED~'BOUT~IT




I agree John. I think enforcement would be a huge challenge. What board member wants to stay up all night and observe where all the neighbors park?
DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:796


07/12/2014 11:30 AM  
I guess I'll be the first to ask.... WHY??

What happens on a public street in an HOA from 10pm to 6am that should preclude anyone from parking there?
JohnB26


Posts:0


07/12/2014 11:54 AM  
because:

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

In other words: Because they think they can control others.

see: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely.html and remember that Adolph Hitler was elected into his position.
KevinK7
(Florida)

Posts:1343


07/12/2014 1:35 PM  
C&Rs are not a typical contract. It is one between properties governing use. To dictate parking on public streets would be very unenforceable. What would be next? Telling members what roads they can drive on or what spots they can use when they park at the grocery store? You can govern the properties with restrictions but not behaviors off of them.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:8592


07/12/2014 2:26 PM  
The OP hasn't replied to anyone's suggestions, etc.

I wonder if his HOA has campers, RVs, etc. of non-residents parking there?
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/12/2014 3:50 PM  
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/12/2014 1:35 PM

To dictate parking on public streets would be very unenforceable.




I'd suggest reading the Missouri case I posted a link to.
KevinK7
(Florida)

Posts:1343


07/12/2014 5:20 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 07/12/2014 3:50 PM
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/12/2014 1:35 PM

To dictate parking on public streets would be very unenforceable.




I'd suggest reading the Missouri case I posted a link to.



I read that. I thought I had read something more Florida specific in the past but I cannot find anything. One Florida site I found mentions there are no Florida case laws to point to but mentions other cases like the one you mention. I suppose it depends on how you argue the case too. I have read a lot where courts upheld such restrictions when the argument was based solely on the fact that the streets were municipally controlled. Now I imagine if a HOA used their by-laws to create such a restriction that would be a huge no-no.

I would still argue against regulating public streets, looking at cases like the one where a HOA attempted to govern the placement of a sign someone placed in their car, or out-of-state cases or laws, like the one in Arizona. Maybe make a FHA claim that the HOA uses such rules to try and restrict family size because such rules are preventing from having multiple adults with their own transportation from residing in the same property. But then again, I guess it depends on how you argue the case in front of a judge.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


07/12/2014 5:21 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 07/12/2014 3:50 PM
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/12/2014 1:35 PM

To dictate parking on public streets would be very unenforceable.




I'd suggest reading the Missouri case I posted a link to.




Tim's case states that the parking restriction in the HOA-HO contract is enforceable on public streets as long as there is no restriction against public use.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


07/12/2014 5:26 PM  
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/12/2014 5:20 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 07/12/2014 3:50 PM
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/12/2014 1:35 PM

To dictate parking on public streets would be very unenforceable.




I'd suggest reading the Missouri case I posted a link to.



I read that. I thought I had read something more Florida specific in the past but I cannot find anything. One Florida site I found mentions there are no Florida case laws to point to but mentions other cases like the one you mention. I suppose it depends on how you argue the case too. I have read a lot where courts upheld such restrictions when the argument was based solely on the fact that the streets were municipally controlled. Now I imagine if a HOA used their by-laws to create such a restriction that would be a huge no-no.

I would still argue against regulating public streets, looking at cases like the one where a HOA attempted to govern the placement of a sign someone placed in their car, or out-of-state cases or laws, like the one in Arizona. Maybe make a FHA claim that the HOA uses such rules to try and restrict family size because such rules are preventing from having multiple adults with their own transportation from residing in the same property. But then again, I guess it depends on how you argue the case in front of a judge.




See article:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/condoblog/2010/08/florida%E2%80%99s-third-district-court-of-appeal-issues-ruling-on-truck-parking-restrictions.html

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


07/12/2014 5:34 PM  
Posted By NpS on 07/12/2014 5:26 PM
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/12/2014 5:20 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 07/12/2014 3:50 PM
Posted By KevinK7 on 07/12/2014 1:35 PM

To dictate parking on public streets would be very unenforceable.




I'd suggest reading the Missouri case I posted a link to.



I read that. I thought I had read something more Florida specific in the past but I cannot find anything. One Florida site I found mentions there are no Florida case laws to point to but mentions other cases like the one you mention. I suppose it depends on how you argue the case too. I have read a lot where courts upheld such restrictions when the argument was based solely on the fact that the streets were municipally controlled. Now I imagine if a HOA used their by-laws to create such a restriction that would be a huge no-no.

I would still argue against regulating public streets, looking at cases like the one where a HOA attempted to govern the placement of a sign someone placed in their car, or out-of-state cases or laws, like the one in Arizona. Maybe make a FHA claim that the HOA uses such rules to try and restrict family size because such rules are preventing from having multiple adults with their own transportation from residing in the same property. But then again, I guess it depends on how you argue the case in front of a judge.




See article:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/condoblog/2010/08/florida%E2%80%99s-third-district-court-of-appeal-issues-ruling-on-truck-parking-restrictions.html




Cool site by vehicle owner who lost case.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13
(Arizona)

Posts:4099


07/13/2014 3:19 PM  
Suppose I live near, but not within, an HOA that has a public street running through it. The HOA has a rule against overnight parking on the street. I need a place to park the work truck I drive for my employer so I park it on that public street overnight. It's against the HOA rules but not against city code. I am not a member of the HOA and my employer is not a member, either. Just what could the HOA do?
JohnB26


Posts:0


07/13/2014 3:26 PM  
I know !

I know !

I know !



NOTHING
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/13/2014 3:31 PM  
Posted By LarryB13 on 07/13/2014 3:19 PM
Suppose I live near, but not within, an HOA that has a public street running through it. The HOA has a rule against overnight parking on the street. I need a place to park the work truck I drive for my employer so I park it on that public street overnight. It's against the HOA rules but not against city code. I am not a member of the HOA and my employer is not a member, either. Just what could the HOA do?





Well, since you asked what the association "could" do, The HOA could possibly tape a warning onto the vehicle or have it towed. The HOA would be wrong, as their ban would be unenforceable upon you (and they would likely have to pay for the tow). However, that doesn't keep them from doing the wrong thing.


Now, had you asked what could the Association legally do, that would be a simple answer - nothing unless the Association, as in Melissa's Association, convinced the city to create a special parking district that prevented any vehicles from parking on the street or created special parking permits. Of course, then similar to Melissa's Association, your issue would be with the city and not the HOA.
JohnB26


Posts:0


07/13/2014 3:39 PM  
The 'parker' could select Messrs. Smith & Wesson to mediate the situation.

An HOA does NOT rule the world and really should try to MYOB.

STAY WITHIN THE COFINES OF THE COVENANTS which apply only to members of the association.

JohnB26


Posts:0


07/13/2014 3:39 PM  
I would.
JohnB26


Posts:0


07/13/2014 3:40 PM  
guess which
RobT2
(Florida)

Posts:3


07/13/2014 4:11 PM  
Thanks everyone.
I appreciate all the replies and advice/ comments.

Our roads are extremely narrow and we're trying to make it as safe as possible, especially after dark. We do not have street lights in our community. We rely solely on post lights that are on everyone's front yard.

This has nothing to do with BOD "dictatorship". We are trying to be good stewards regarding the safety of our community and the egress of safety equipment in case of an emergency. Some neighbors think THEY own the roads and don't have any consideration for safe parking practices.

Keep the replies coming and thanks again.

Rob
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


07/13/2014 5:01 PM  
Rob

The general thinking seems to be that:

1) More restrictive parking Covenants/Bylaws can be upheld if all agreed to such going in. Thus changing such to be more restrictive will not hold up.

2) Even those agreeing to such restrictions going in only applies to them. Not to others.

3) Best bet is to try and get the local government to add some restrictions. I doubt they will add no parking but they might add parking on one side only.

RobT2
(Florida)

Posts:3


07/13/2014 5:21 PM  
Thanks John.
All good points.

I'm still doing my research on this and going to the sheriff's operations office was my first stop. They gave me the number to the county ordinance officer and I have yet to contact him.

The problem I see as you pointed out is the restrictions only applying to the owners. Our community is 10 y.o. and many of the new owners have not received the CC&R's. If they didn't know the restrictions coming it's going to be a challenge holding the accountable to the CCRs. Our county does have parking restrictions on the county website, and that may be another avenue to take.

This week, I'm going to contact the CM attorney and get his take on the issue.

I appreciate it.

Rob
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:4215


07/13/2014 6:06 PM  
Posted By RobT2 on 07/13/2014 4:11 PM
Thanks everyone.

Our roads are extremely narrow and we're trying to make it as safe as possible, especially after dark. We do not have street lights in our community. We rely solely on post lights that are on everyone's front yard.

Rob




Not to change the subject ... but ... we also have narrow streets. Ours are not dedicated. Would be interested in knowing how you were able to get your narrow streets dedicated.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13
(Arizona)

Posts:4099


07/13/2014 7:38 PM  
Rob,

In re-reading your original post, I noticed that you described the streets as "public." This is not a very good description as I can think of several different ways in which a street may be public: Each of these situations (and there may be others) would require a different approach by the HOA if it wishes to prohibit parking.

1. The street is owned by and maintained by a government agency

The association would need to amend it's CC&R's to contractually prohibit members from parking on the street.

2. The street is on easements on private property and dedicated to the public for use as a roadway

This is a tough call but because the land is still owned by members, the association probably could not exercise control over the real estate without an amendment to the CC&R's.

3. The street is on property deeded to the association but dedicated to the public for use as a roadway

The association should be able to control parking by adopting rules but would not otherwise have the authority to prevent owners from using the road for ingress and egress.

DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:796


07/14/2014 1:43 PM  
Narrow street at night? I guess I'm still not seeing the issue with legal parking on the street.
If it's dark, there are cars on the street. Slow down. Seems like a safer alternative than having cars speeding down the street at night.

Personally, I like when the neighbor's have people over and they end up parking on both sides of the street for that very reason. It slows traffic to a crawl.
MarkM29
(Colorado)

Posts:15


07/29/2014 7:32 PM  
I realize there will be differences from state to state but have been dealing with this very issue.

I a the president of my master HOA. There is a sub where the board became non-functioning so we took over enforcement. The issue was that parking was not enforced by the sub even when the board was functioning so now we are dealing with lots of people upset as we are now telling them they are in violation.

Yes, the master covenants indicate it is applicable and the sub covenants also said compliance to master was required but this was not happening. We consulted a lawyer to make sure we were doing the best and legal thing.

It came down to Colorado that yes they are enforceable. Now the issue can be how the streets were annexed at time of development. If they were public access then regardless of what the cc&r says, it is not enforceable. If they were deemed private as part of the community, then it would be enforceable.

My concern with adding this into your cc&r's is since this is something new you are wanting to do, you would need to determine the original filed intent of the roadways (assuming it's similar to my state) do your cc&r's require majority vote to amend or add to? That may be a challenge as I'm sure there will be some not fond of the idea.

While I support the no overnight street parking in my community, it takes up 30% plus of our board meetings in disputes.
DouglasV1
(Maryland)

Posts:1


08/02/2014 12:48 AM  
Here in Maryland, State, County and City laws rule. We had a terrible time with commercial vehicles being parked in our community of 202 single family homes. Trucks of all sizes and even a limo service were parking several of their vehicles in front of others homes. Our by-laws did not allow this and a new Board started to enforce the rules by first sending a warning letter, then towing the vehicle. Many of the local HOA's were doing the same. The City stepped in and changed the law so that only State and local law could be used, but they worked with us by setting limits on vehicle size and type.The city police ticket violators whenever they get a call. It's often easier to work with the system instead of trying to do it yourself.
I have been on the Board for 8 years and have been President for almost 2. We are real big on using warning letters about violations for almost everything. While we have a fine system in place for certain violations, we have rarely had to use it because people here try not to tick off their neighbors. Most parking violations now are usually committed by visitors.We can't fine parking violators, but a repeated problem either responds to the reminder, or the police will hit them with a hefty fine. Members seldom complain and appreciate the warning, but they only get one.

I should mention that we do have a community manager who handles all of our paperwork, leaving the three person Board to do most of our work by phone or e-mail.
DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:796


08/02/2014 9:09 AM  
Posted By MarkM29 on 07/29/2014 7:32 PM


While I support the no overnight street parking in my community, it takes up 30% plus of our board meetings in disputes.




Why do you support no overnight street parking? What is the unique issue presenting itself in your HOA that it's an issue having cars on the street during the period where there is the least amount of traffic or people out & about?
MarkM29
(Colorado)

Posts:15


08/02/2014 7:36 PM  
David, there are 3 main issues with parking overnight; in my opinion and this may not be applicable to everywhere but it is my opinion based on my community.

#1 is the issue of what could become inoperable vehicles sitting within our community. During a recent meeting, a HO was disputing a fine (this is the third notice) because his car has issues and doesn't run so it's their back-up. That is the very reason for this concern as it was admitted the vehicle sits inoperable in the street. At time of wanting to sell my home, I don't want price to be distracted by the negative aesthetics of a neighbor.

#2 crime. To your point, night is the time of least traffic and people not out and about. That makes vehicles an easy target for theft, break-ins and vandalism.

#3 the whole fiduciary duty thing. I am in a large community, over 3 thousand single family homes. While 30% of meetings seem to be capitalized by this issue, the other 98-99% of our members are happy with the covenants and chose to own in our community for it. So not upholding a covenant that others and in the majority want then I feel I would not support my responsibility of upholding the covenants.
DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:796


08/02/2014 11:34 PM  
Thanks Mark.
The entire street parking topic perplexes me, and to be clear, my question was in good faith.

yet I'm still struggling with street parking being an issue.
Presumably, the vehicles that are parked in the street overnight would otherwise be parked in a driveway. If they're in a driveway, they're just as susceptible to nefarious acts as they would be if parked in the street. I live in a small rural association and I've had a vehicle broken into in my driveway. My motion-activated flood lights apparently did little to deter their efforts.

A disabled/inoperative vehicle seems to be another topic entirely. It would be as unattractive and as much a deterrent to future owners regardless as to where it was parked (driveway or street). A rule pertaining to inoperable vehicles should cover that without worrying about street parking.

I understand that a lot of HOAs have regulations pertaining to street parking, but I'm still not seeing how it's worth the battle. When it's dark and the vehicles can't be seen, why does it matter?
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


08/03/2014 3:26 AM  
Dave

First off it is an aesthetics issue. Street parking makes the neighborhood look poorly. The place looks disorganized. Looks like a used car lot.

Secondly due to narrow streets it can be like driving an obstacle course.

Also due to tight streets parking on the opposite side of a driveway can make it difficult to exit the driveway.

Also trash pickup and mail delivery can be affected if service vehicles are unable to get to mail boxes, trash barrels.

When one selects a neighborhood one of the initial criteria is does this place look good when they drive in. If one of the reasons for this appeal is vehicles not parked all over due to parking restrictions, then this is the way it should stay.




JohnB26


Posts:0


08/03/2014 8:54 AM  
the bottom line:


The HOA may enforce CONTRACTURAL restrictions ONLY against a contract signer/member/owner.

A member of the general public may park their vehicle as per municipal regulations on said public street ~ if they are violating a CONTACT, i.e. COVENANT, it is an HOA contractual issue.

If they are city/town streets, the city/town governs them. (but see above for any (private) contractual members restrictions

If county streets, the county governs them. (but see above for any (private) contractual members restrictions

If the streets are PUBLIC then they are open to the public.

The HOA is free to attempt to have the authority having jurisdiction change the street parking rules.

If the streets are 'narrow' it would be common to have parking on one side only or alternate day/side parking for cleaning purposes.

The required vehicle 'labeling' and/or guest parking issue will be your worst nightmare ~ enforcement of CONTRACTUAL parking restrictions on a PUBLIC street against members (only) would be extremely difficult if not impossible.

Be careful what you wish for.
DaveD3
(Michigan)

Posts:796


08/03/2014 2:23 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/03/2014 3:26 AM
Dave

First off it is an aesthetics issue. Street parking makes the neighborhood look poorly. The place looks disorganized. Looks like a used car lot.

Secondly due to narrow streets it can be like driving an obstacle course.

Also due to tight streets parking on the opposite side of a driveway can make it difficult to exit the driveway.

Also trash pickup and mail delivery can be affected if service vehicles are unable to get to mail boxes, trash barrels.

When one selects a neighborhood one of the initial criteria is does this place look good when they drive in. If one of the reasons for this appeal is vehicles not parked all over due to parking restrictions, then this is the way it should stay.








I understand all of those reasons, John. But really, none of them are uniquely present at night.

The OP is talking about a 10PM-6AM restriction which nullifies appearance concerns since it's dark. It may be a personal preference, but I would rather have an obstacle course at night than cars speeding down the street, unable to see people that might be walking around.

A 24-hour restriction, or a daylight hour restriction, I understand. It's the "when it's dark and shouldn't matter" restrictions that I'm struggling with.
JaniceR4
(Florida)

Posts:5


08/05/2014 6:27 PM  
I had this issues just recently with my HOA here in florida. My subdivision is about 9 years old and my HOA decided to enforce the CC&R that says "no parking on the street" this year. Our street is a public/county maintained road. How the HOA was enforcing the "no parking on the street" rule was by having cars towed. That was completely illegal to tow cars from the public street. After many emails, going to meetings and taking my HOA to mediations, they finally stopped the towing. The county police department contacted the towing company and told them to stop. I might end up in court for the reimbursement of the towing fees I had to pay. Several homeowners during a meeting talked about parking on one side of the street from the 1st - 15th of the month then switch to the other side for the rest of the month. Its something that can't be enforced but it is something that can be suggested to the homeowners. My problem was the homeowners are willing to work something out about parking on the street to make it safe but our HOA didn't want to hear it and continued to tow until I was able to stop them. We did have that problem of cars parked on the street making it hard to get through and even an ambulance was not able to make it through during an emergency but towing our cars was to much. I plan on contacting another HOA that seems to not have any parking issues and how do they handle it. It may not be something you can enforce but let homeowners know the safety problem its causing and ask for a solution. You will be surprised how a lot of them are willing to help.


hope this was helpful
AlexF2
(Georgia)

Posts:12


12/16/2017 5:31 AM  
Several have posted in reply that HOA's cannot regulate parking on public streets, and that is both true and false.

It is true that except in rare circumstances, an HOA has no jurisdiction over parking on public streets that would allow for something like towing of an offending vehicle or prohibiting a non-homeowner from parking on the street.

It is false that there must be something in the Covenants that regulate parking specifically in order for an HOA to take action against homeowner members. Covenants will typically give a Board wide latitude to interpret actions that are detrimental to the community, often defined as "nuisance activities" or actions that adversely impact property values.

So, taking on-street parking as an example, if a Board feels that this presents a perception to potential home buyers that would detract from the value of homes in the neighborhood, and have some evidence of this such as feed-back from realtors following house showings, then it would likely be permissible for the HOA to place regulations onto homeowners related to the parking at times when it is likely to be viewed by potential home buyers, such as daily between 7am and 7pm.

Banning parking overnight would not fall into this category, and fines or penalties related to the homeowner's membership in the HOA are all that could be imposed. So actions such as towing a violating vehicle parked on public streets would likely land the HOA in court.

AlexF2
(Georgia)

Posts:12


12/16/2017 5:40 AM  
Concerning the matter of cars parking on both sides of a residential street:

The International Fire Code, Section 503.2 and 503.2.1 states that single-side parking is mandated on streets less than 34 feet wide. Most residential streets are between 25 and 30 feet wide.

The challenge with this lies in:
1. Whether a city or county follows the International Fire Code or has rules of their own
2. Who enforces the fire code for the city or county (Fire Marshall, Police, Code Enforcement, etc.)
3. Who determines which side of each street is where parking is allowed?

I would be interested in how others have addressed this issu.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


12/16/2017 5:42 AM  
Alex,

This is an old thread. It's best not to reactivate old threads.

You are incorrect that public street parking restrictions do not have to be within the covenants.
I provided links within my posts that support such a requirement.
Please look at them.
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:1026


12/16/2017 8:28 AM  
The answer to this is going to be specific to your state. Every state has court precedents that create different rules for HOAs, even when the state law and governing documents are the same or similar. Even under exactly the same circumstances, the courts in two different states may rule in different ways.



AlexF2
(Georgia)

Posts:12


12/16/2017 2:54 PM  
TimB4,

I never said that public street parking restrictions didn't need to be in the covenants. What I said was that there are usually clauses in the covenants that would allow for regulating things like parking under another category, such as "nuisance activity" if the Board has evidence that the activity was detrimental to the property values or safety of the community.

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