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Subject: Respectful perspective on why HOA Members revolt against HOAs
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SharonH9


Posts:0


09/10/2013 6:41 PM  
Jon does tend to put himself on that pedastool. And I am 100% certain that all posters on this site agree with me.
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/10/2013 6:41 PM  
Posted By GnomeX on 09/10/2013 6:13 PM
Posted By KevinK7 on 09/10/2013 5:56 PM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/10/2013 5:34 PM
You know Jon gets a bad rap. I admit we did not always see eye to eye but he earned his respect from me and others. He speaks his mind even if he is in it or out of it. :-)



I have to say Jon is spot on concerning some of the people in question.

Some people simply don't deserve respect. Now everyone wants to brow beat Jon because he doesn't pander to people like FredO & Amin when they engage in personal attacks. He is just supposed to sit there and take it? I don't think so...

In fact, if someone like Amin or FredO came into a Board meeting or annual meeting spewing personal attacks like they do, any parliamentarian would cite them for doing so per Robert's Rules, call them into order, and if they continued their behavior they would be removed from the meeting.






Sorry GnomeX,

I don't start personal attacks, but I do finish them. I don't back down because of some keyboard commando who hides behind the internet and launches personal attack after personal attack on visitors to this website.

Yes, a little bit of respect shown towards posters goes a long way. You folks who are on your respective boards must certainly deal with irate homeowners coming to you with their neighborhood complaints on their other neighbors or even on perceived misdeeds by the board. Obviously, a person with an issue has an emotional connection to it and will try every effort and attempt to get a favorable (to them) outcome. Not really hard to understand.

It is a shame that some of the folks, regular posters on this website prefer to attack those that come here seeking advice or answers. Some of you folks are a lot nicer than others. Some are much more mature and don't need to attack somebody just to feel better about themselves or whatever reason they decide to attack.

Robert's rules... that's a funny one. The open meetings at my HOA are supposed to be according to Robert's rules. You would think that the MC (he claims to manage 40 other HOA's) would bring a copy with him. Yet, he doesn't. No one on the current board or the recently ousted (bad) board members can identify Roberts rules when shown them or asked about them. the only people violating Roberts Rules at our meetings are most of the board members themselves and the ex-board members who show up to make trouble and talk out of turn.

We all know there's a difference between sarcasm and outright attacks. (I enjoy your sarcasm, btw)

I just think it is time for some people to be a little more civil (I include myself in this statement).



KevinK7
(Florida)

Posts:1343


09/10/2013 7:23 PM  
Everyone is deserving of respect.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


09/10/2013 7:26 PM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 09/10/2013 6:41 PM
Jon does tend to put himself on that pedastool. And I am 100% certain that all posters on this site agree with me.




I think that everyone places themselves on a pedestal (although heights may vary).

I believe it's human nature to do so.
SharonH9


Posts:0


09/10/2013 7:34 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 09/10/2013 7:26 PM
Posted By SharonH9 on 09/10/2013 6:41 PM
Jon does tend to put himself on that pedastool. And I am 100% certain that all posters on this site agree with me.




I think that everyone places themselves on a pedestal (although heights may vary).

I believe it's human nature to do so.




For sure!! But it was my attempt at some sarcasm and meant to be a joke. You know misspelling pedestal and giving a specific percentage and saying all.
RichardP13


Posts:0


09/10/2013 8:44 PM  
John

Yes I am am owner in my association, Have been the President of the association as well as being on a number of committees. I re-wrote our Bylaws and CCRs and created our election rules as required in California. Probably did more in 5 years than Jon did in 25 years. In 5 years, I have put in my time.
RichardP13


Posts:0


09/10/2013 8:47 PM  
Melissa

Jon gest back a little of what he tries to dish out. Only wish it could be more.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


09/10/2013 8:56 PM  
Posted By KevinK7 on 09/10/2013 7:23 PM
Everyone is deserving of respect.



Respectfully they are until they aren't.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


09/10/2013 9:23 PM  
Tim,

I have great respect for you, so please do not try to remain so political. Leaders are expected to conduct themselves according to a higher standard. The Board leaders that come on here and denigrate the same people every opportunity they get, even when some of those people are not involved in the current discussions, need to be called out for what it is. I think others have done so adequately so I will not pile on.

You are correct about a human weakness of placing ourselves on pedestals. I hope I am not doing so now. But having directed a $300 million dollar portfolio, successfully no less, for a major financial company is a little more difficult than running the simple HOA I am a member of. At that level one learns to easily identify the actual movers versus the keyboard pretenders. I am sure one of the pretenders here will now use this fact multiple times to try and prove nothing other than what a bully he is.

FYI, last night we had our September HOA Board meeting. I was appointed Chair Person of the newly authorized Finance Committee. This was forced upon the Board which is developer controlled, from outside. I am certainly responsible for that. Maybe I do know something and actually am involved?

Within 12 hours an e-mail was sent out to prospective members of the FC with a copy of what the FC was tasked with by the Board. A second e-mail was sent to all committee chair persons with the current budget and to date expenditures and 2012 actual financials attached for their review. They were also asked for their input on the adequacy of their budget and if any adjustments would be asked for with an explanation included. The Board was also asked to advise of any extraordinary items that may be on the radar we needed to be aware of.

Not once did I find it necessary to state I am the chair. Several calls were also made to ask personally for participation from those well qualified with both budget experience and the personality to be recognized as fair and impartial. I am sure this is the first time chairs have been asked for their input. You think they will recognize a difference?

Does this sound to you as if there is a lack of direction or zero understanding in how to make things happen, or rather the individual is just so comfortable undertaking assignments like this because it is routine?

All of this being said, I still come here because I recognize much more remains to be learned by me. Fortunately I learned long ago denigrating people yields low returns so I am forced to sift through much garbage here until the nuggets of wisdom are revealed.
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/10/2013 9:52 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 09/09/2013 11:35 PM
Posted By FredO on 09/09/2013 10:20 PM

If you are tired of repeating yourselves ( quite a few just like to hear themselves talk and be validated for their position by other like minded folks...) then why not create or cause to create a "FAQ" page where you can answer once and for all, the most common elements or issues that appear on this website. Then you can just direct the new poster to that FAQ and come back if it does not cover their specific issues in minute detail for them????




The reason not to do this is the same as the reason not to reactivate old threads. Laws change and what may have previously been good advice may be bad advice today.

Posted By FredO on 09/09/2013 10:20 PM

TimB4,

I can see your point, but I think you missed my point. What is the most common issue found on this website?
Could it be, that HOA members are not familiar or may have never read their governing documents?

As far as FAQ's go, wouldn't this be the best starting place? It is the most common response to every post that I read.
Obviously it is sound advice. The FAQ's could state that if you are having an issue with your HOA in any way, the first thing you should do is read and refresh yourself on your governing documents.....

It may be a calming influence on the HOA members who come here seeking advice.

Wouldn't all you noble and helpful current and past HOA Board members like to have a really nice, calm, maybe even ration exchange with the HOA Member that comes here?

Imagine a post that goes like this: Hi All, First time poster here. Thanks for the FAQ's, I have read my CC&R's and it answered some questions I had but created a few new ones. Here's my issue I would like your advice on.... blah, blah, blah.

A few posts later, this poster would be saying: Thanks for the great advice. Now, can anyone give me any idea's on how exactly to go about implementing that? What did you do, and how did it work out....

Gee, the civility might just cause some folks to blow a gasket in disbelief. Shudder the thought! :-)

Now, contrast that to how "some" people on this website respond to the poster. Does this sound familiar:

"Here we go again, another HOA member who knows nothing and expects the easy way out for no effort... Another poster who has no idea what it takes to run an HOA..." Another poster who has not served or read their governing documents!"

Does that sound about right???

GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/10/2013 10:23 PM  
Posted By KevinK7 on 09/10/2013 5:53 PM


You accuse Fred (and Frank, Amin, Mike, etc.) of being a know-nothing "windbag." It is this attitude that I have seen negatively affect HOAs in my area. Board members had this air of superiority that they knew best for the community. One meeting I attended the board railed against homeowners who didn't agree with them and then went on a rant about how they did this for the community and they did that for the community while everyone were lazy liars. They even completely disregarded the ruling of a judge - stating the judge did not know more then them - and told membership that county property was indeed the HOA's common property because they believed it to be.




FredO is somewhat accusative and engages in personal attacks but at least he is rational. Mike is anti-HOA no matter what any Board does and evidently is losing his shirt in court on fruitless lawsuits. People like Amin are not even mentally stable imho. Jon is right. Some of the people are windbags.

Kevin, in SOME cases you have a point. Some Boards are out of line. I personally removed one bad Board myself by knocking on doors and petitioning people for a recall election. They were engaging in excessive needless spending draining reserves, holding secret meetings, unable to count ballots (or worse rigging elections), one President REFUSED to step down after her term of office expired, and they were illegally withholding financial reports and Board meeting minutes. They were SO out of line it was a cake walk for me to get them removed. It worked they were removed.

However there are also many cases where the body of the people are simply too ignorant to legitimately question the Board as they simply do not have the adequate level of knowledge needed to make rational decisions on matters a Board deals with on a daily basis. So yes in some cases it appears the Board appears to have an air of superiority. But sometimes it is justified.

Case in point for my HOA. Many people are now wanting to remove me because I am against disbanding the HOA. These people assume I am lying when I state the county will not take over our private roads without massive upgrades. They also want to remove me because we are also re-roofing our Clubhouse by going against the member approved budget not to do so. The Clubhouse has already sustained major water damage and has a mold problem. But I have it straight from our attorney, the Board has a fiduciary duty responsibility to protect the assets of the corporation, NOT THE MEMBERS.

So let them remove me. IF the deadbeats succeed, and they elect a Board willing to let a million dollar clubhouse rot to the ground, I and a MINORITY of other members are going to file a lawsuit against such a Board for failure of fiduciary responsibility to maintain our assets. And if I can, I will sue any Board member PERSONALLY if they go along with it.

One of the largest HOAs in Washington state recently had an old Board removed and voted in a new Board that went with the wishes of the MAJORITY and vowed to keep dues low, ignored a dues increase per Washington state law, and are PURPOSEFULLY UNDER FUNDING reserves because that is what the people wanted. Well A MINORITY of homeowners and old Board members sued and WON. Case currently in appeal. I highly expect the HOA to lose the appeal but we will see.

Some people are FLAT OUT WRONG even if they hold a majority.
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/10/2013 11:35 PM  
Posted By JonD1 on 09/10/2013 2:43 PM
Fred:

>>My opinion you are nothing more than a windbag.

Great, I feel the same way about you. But I add a few more adjectives in trying to really describe you accurately.


>> Have you served on any Board in any capacity? That was the question.
>> Now it becomes a state secret. I will take that as a NO. BIG NO.

It's still not relevant but I have lived in three different HOA's for a total of 29 years of my life. I have served on the Board for two of these (6 years total) and been the President at one of them for two years. I have served on many committees and in my current HOA I serve on two committees and have run for the board three times. Does that make you happy now? Oh, and I have served on three Board's for local charities (one with a multi million dollar portfolio to manage, grow and distribute). We won't even get into my profession or my Military duties (48 months of Combat since 2001) and service. So what have you done? Still can't seem to get out of the basement, can you? The most important thing you have achieved in your life, is to be on an HOA board.... Amazing... Wow! I am impressed...and humbled by all your achievements.... you got me there....

>>So what you think about how things should be is based on nothing more than your opinions means little to me.

Actually, I know how things should be run. And while my current HOA is running and paying bills with very few members not paying, we do have the personality issues I have written about and the control freaks who are so busy handing out favors to stay in power that it makes one sick.

>>And please stop making up YOUR facts about things you don't begin to have any understanding of.

I will, when you do the same....


>>You have no clue what takes place on the property where I live but in typical Fred style you make assumptions and speculations
>> about how and when things go which surprisingly support your views.

Well, I am sure even a person of your mental capabilities realizes that there are a lot of basic things common to the running of any Corporate Board. Budgets, various committees, finances, By-laws, legal matters, property and income taxes, state and Federal regulations you must adhere to. Capital improvements and the list goes on. So am I making assumptions on those things or don't these apply to HOA Boards found in New York??

>>And then your group of like minded cheerleaders all follow suit. Cheering each other on as if that makes a difference.

How is that any different than what the banner at the top of the page says about this secret little club where you HOA board members get together and talk rudely about your constituents that you hold in contempt??

>>Now you and others assume that my style of responding to you fools HAS TO BE (because Fred says so) similar to how I deal with people living here.

Actually, a lot of people are of that opinion. There are many books and articles on the subject. Maybe take a walk through the self help section of a bookstore next time you are in one. Or better yet, sign up for anger management classes. You are probably a court order away from having to do just that?


>>Yes, people like Mike, the long gone loud mouth who you thought just might know it all.

There you go again, making more of YOUR baseless accusations! Again, in your little world (and I mean little), it's OK if you do something, but no one else is allowed to do it. You keep making my case for me with your rantings... You really came off as a cyber stalker with Mike. Now it looks like you are looking for new people to stalk??

>>Amin, the Bozo from Texas who like a broken record repeats over and over again the same questions as if he or she whichever it might be,
>>belongs in a mental institution.

You sure can dish it out but you have very thin skin when comments like you make are directed at you.


>>And then we have Frank who was BORN with all he needs to know about HOAs.

Actually, Frank is a really experienced HOA person. You could learn a thing or two from him. As we all could. Oh yeah, I think I read that somewhere on the top of this page?? Go figure?? This is a place to come share.... But not by your actions (in my opinion).


>>Divine intervention no doubt. If you bother to read my first few posts to all knowing Frank I suggested perhaps serving on a
>> might require knowledge that the average person just might not have come across.

One thing obvious to me, is that you are definitely average and have not yet come across this knowledge. If you had, you might have acquired some social and communication skills. (Did mommy not hug you enough as a child? Did they have to hang a ham bone around your neck to get the dog to play with you or what?)


>>Anyone who runs a household was Board material.

You know, I've read and re-read my governing documents and the only requirements for being on the board (in all three of the HOA's I have lived in) is that you are a member in good standing. I guess you have a different opinion that what the laws require? I guess NY HOA's have different requirements than the rest of the United States. Can you refer us all to the public laws in your state that allow for this requirement??

>>And Frank with his clean driving record, his long term marriage, and his work as a manager in some capacity all proved to him beyond
>>the shadow of any doubt he was cut out for being a Board member no doubt. Frank even suggested to qualify all candidates for Board
>>positions should be able to quote, are you ready, wait for it.....three of the Ten Commandments! Now hows that for Board qualifications! Stunning.

Actually, it doesn't surprise me at all. Maybe it surprises you (and I can understand why given.... well... you know.... your condition!) It sounds like this is lost on you, but the United States has some definite regional differences. Lots of places in the South and lower Mid-West/Central states, actually have belief systems in place and phrases like: In God We trust are taken seriously. Things like morals, ethics and being neighborly is a way of life.

>>So Fred folks like you, Amin, Frank, and Frank's hero Mike the fool, should expect some kickback when you come to this site
>>which clearly states its intended purpose in the flyer at the top of the home page.

So, that reason alone is your justification to treat people the way you treat them on this website?? Do you have any idea how egotistical and pathetic you are?Maybe you should wake up and get a clue. Push away from your keyboard and talk a walk outside in the fresh air so you are not breathing in the crap you are dishing out.

>>The words are short and the language is English. Just none of you seemed to have read and comprehended its stated purpose.

Just wear does it say you have to be a current serving president to be allowed to have an opinion???

>>Difficulty following instructions as a kid????

No? However by the things you write, it is very obvious you had these troubles. Again, did mommy not hug you enough?

>>BUT...... that certainly does not stop your group from speaking as if you all KNOW.

Yep! Got us there... We all know when we're dealing with a buffoon and a blowhard windbag (or is that a douche bag in your case?)


>>He lost each case he brought for 10 years. But lets listen o him and remain silent while he rants and raves and makes
>>false claims about every HOA Board member in America.

Actually, if you managed to see through the emotional baggage Mike has, he was able to point out that there are some evil people who sometimes end up on HOA Boards. I found his posts entertaining. Mostly because of the rise he got out of you.... You have some mighty big issues related to the attacks on him and the cyber stalking you did of him...

>>Amin, I won't bother. Pretty clear to me why he has issues. Pretty clear to me he is a ignorant fool.

Something we finally agree on :-)

>>Someone like you Fred who talks and talks and talks but has never done a damn thing.

Go to the top of this post and re-read it then tell me I have done nothing!!

>>Frank knows it all except how to imrpove his own property. Frank has opinions about how things should be except how to get things done on his own >>property. Frank is an expert on everything including what is required of Board service while never having held the position. Frank talks out of his behind.

Gee, you sure do lay it on thick and then you have the gall to say I make baseless accusations??? Frank has easily done tons more than you could ever hope to achieve.

>>But folks like you and them should be welcomed with open arms and allowed to preach your version of reality.

Well to be honest, if the banner at the top of the web page means anything at all, then yes, You should welcome people who have more or better experience than you. You are NOT the HOA God you think you are in your own mind. You're a legend in you're own mind to boot. I am amazed you can type at all with both shoulders being pulled out of your sockets so often from patting yourself on the back.


>>So in closing Fred this site is not intended for you and the like minded folks who group together with you as a place for you to come and bash HOAs and those who actually take the time and make the effort to serve their communities.

Oh really?? This web page is not for us (who bash HOA's) and also not for people who serve their HOA's. You did write that didn't you. Are you sure you have command of the english language? Your sentence makes no sense. But I have certainly become accustomed to you making nonsensical comments.

>>Amin and Mike labled us thieves, liars and law breakers

I certainly don't condone what they did. However, I have seen law breaking in my two of the three HOA's I have lived in.

>>and you and the other simpletons pipe up about how you have been wronged in some pity party.

Hmmm, pity party? Are you sure?? What part of the banner at the top of the page do you not understand? It says this is a forum for Community Association Boards & Other Volunteers to discuss topics concerning their Association duties. So, by your judgement, sharing instances of wrongdoing on the part of Board members so we can all learn from it. maybe help police the image of Boards from these learnings, or do you just sit back and turn a deaf ear and blind eye to any wrongdoing or law breaking you might see? Doing this as a board member my well put the entire HOA in liability if you don't speak up or take action... man... have you got a lot to learn...


>> Let me be clear. I don't give a rat's behind about what Mike, Amin, Frank or you think.

Right back at you with this sentiment. Given your obvious limitations, no one should take anything you write or say with any credence. (Note: Your treatment of others and your social skills and delivery force your credibility factor into negative numbers. You are your own worst enemy in this case - but you're such a smart guy, you already knew this, right? )


>>Mike is an idiot who you and Frank felt the need to protect. Amin should be working in the circus with the other clowns.
>>And all you have Fred is opinions, false claims based on nothing, lies, BS and talk. All rolled into one in my book useless.

Well, you are certainly welcomed to your opinion. Nothing that anyone can do about that. Especially since you are hiding out in mommy's basement playing "keyboard commando". Funny thing is, a windbag-blowhard like you is all tough talk over the internet. But in person, you're a big wussy.

>> And IF you don't like what I post that would fall into the file of to damn bad.
>> I don't like liars, I don't like phonies, I don't like mouths and I don't like frauds. SO I don't like YOU.

WOW, we really do agree on a lot of things after all... 'cus I feel the exact same way about you!!



TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


09/10/2013 11:57 PM  
Posted By FrankS10 on 09/10/2013 9:23 PM


Tim,
I have great respect for you, so please do not try to remain so political.




Frank, thank you for the kind words. I have a great respect for you to.

I'm not trying to remain political. I simply wanted to point out that despite the posting style, the posts themselves typically contain useful information.

I consider the rest of the postings that simply try to give back what is perceived as being given as a waste of time, energy.

Posted By FrankS10 on 09/10/2013 9:23 PM

Leaders are expected to conduct themselves according to a higher standard. The Board leaders that come on here and denigrate the same people every opportunity they get, even when some of those people are not involved in the current discussions, need to be called out for what it is.




I agree that leaders should and are expected to conduct themselves at a higher standard.

I am also very aware that being a leader is part of an individuals character and has absolutely nothing to do with what job or office that the individual is serving in (even if that position is perceived as one of leadership).

The military has a saying, the rank deserves a certain amount of respect (typically limited to how the individual is addressed) but it's up to the individual holding that rank to earn any additional respect from someone.

Personally I think that everyone should simply consider themselves to be the better person and refrain from posting sarcastic remarks, giving back what is given, doing this for that, etc., as I personally see no benefit in it.

Perhaps then, hopefully, this site will get back to it's intended purpose and be a positive place to share ideas and learn about Associations.



Posted By FrankS10 on 09/10/2013 9:23 PM

FYI, last night we had our September HOA Board meeting. I was appointed Chair Person of the newly authorized Finance Committee. This was forced upon the Board which is developer controlled, from outside. I am certainly responsible for that.




I'm glad that you were able to find another way to address the issues you saw in your Association. I know that, unless the decalarant is willing, it is next to impossible to make changes when the Declarant is in control. Your experience in making that happen will certainly be a benefit to others on this site.


Posted By FrankS10 on 09/10/2013 9:23 PM

I still come here because I recognize much more remains to be learned by me. Fortunately I learned long ago denigrating people yields low returns so I am forced to sift through much garbage here until the nuggets of wisdom are revealed.




Ditto.
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/11/2013 12:03 AM  
Posted By GnomeX on 09/10/2013 10:23 PM
Posted By KevinK7 on 09/10/2013 5:53 PM


>>FredO is somewhat accusative and engages in personal attacks but at least he is rational.

GnomeX, thanks for the somewhat compliment. yes, I do engage in personal attacks. I never start them but I will fight back when attacked. I don't care who the person is, they'd better not attack if they don't want it coming right back at them. Plus, I detest bullies. You posited this statement in a previous pst on this thread, where you were defending Jon. You said something to the effect of should you Board members just sit there and take the personal attacks when someone comes along like Mike claiming All HOA's are criminal enterprises..

Do you think we should sit there and take the insults hurled at us?? Don't you think we get enough of that from our own HOA board's (which drives us to this site seeking advice on how to stop these rogue boards???



>>Kevin, in SOME cases you have a point. Some Boards are out of line.

I am glad to see you acknowledge it. I know you and other Board members take pride in what you do. Sometimes, it is even appreciated by the masses.


>>However there are also many cases where the body of the people are simply too ignorant to legitimately question the Board as they simply do
>> not have the adequate level of knowledge needed to make rational decisions on matters a Board deals with on a daily basis.

It's this attitude that is pervasive in my opinion and this is where the problems begin. Really, You think you are smarter than others. So much so, you say it in public. That is generalizing too much for anybody to put up with.

>>So yes in some cases it appears the Board appears to have an air of superiority. But sometimes it is justified.

Sorry GnomeX, putting out an air of superiority is NEVER justified. It is thinking like this, that creates people like Mike, Amin, even me. So, from this statement (and many posting on this website) you and your peer Board members find it OK to talk about your HOA members, but god forbid if one of the pissed on talks trash about the boards. You give justification to the mikes and Amin;'s of the world.

>>Case in point for my HOA. Many people are now wanting to remove me because I am against disbanding the HOA. These people assume I am
>>lying when I state the county will not take over our private roads without massive upgrades.

I am thinking that maybe you might want to try and have a County Representative come to a meeting and explain the situation to them. Sometimes, people will only hear it or believe when it comes from a second or maybe even official source.


>>They also want to remove me because we are also re-roofing our Clubhouse by going against the member approved budget not to do so.

Are you sure that's the real reason they want to remove you and not because of the Air of Superiority vibe that you give off...??? :-)


So let them remove me. IF the deadbeats succeed,

Hmm... see how you refer to your constituents? Calling them deadbeats. Do you call them that to their faces? Do you talk like that to your neighbors? Yeah, I've seen your response to other posts on this thread - but you have a severe attitude problem going on there. Maybe your communication skills and attitude are getting in the way of your constituents and neighbors from understanding what you are telling them. Delivery matters a great deal.

You know, if the people you are talking to don't seem to understand, sometimes, maybe, it might be you that has (or is) the problem..

>>Some people are FLAT OUT WRONG even if they hold a majority.

Well said... bravo!

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


09/11/2013 12:15 AM  
Posted By FredO on 09/10/2013 9:52 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 09/09/2013 11:35 PM
The reason not to do this [have an FAQ section] is the same as the reason not to reactivate old threads. Laws change and what may have previously been good advice may be bad advice today


I can see your point, but I think you missed my point.




I believe I got your point.

I'm not saying an FAQ wouldn't be useful. Depending on what it contained, it could be very useful. However, this is a decision for the moderators and not for us.

Melissa attempted something along those lines with her thread of how we give advice on this forum. The Moderators thought it was a good thread and pinned it at the top.


Posted By FredO on 09/10/2013 9:52 PM

What is the most common issue found on this website?
Could it be, that HOA members are not familiar or may have never read their governing documents?




In my opinion, the most common issue is enforcement issues. These enforcement issues are typically caused by members not reading/understanding their governing documents and/or personality conflicts between a Director and a member (causing selective enforcement).

Those issues, although having commonalities, are typically unique enough that it's usually better to address them individually.


Posted By FredO on 09/10/2013 9:52 PM

Wouldn't all you noble and helpful current and past HOA Board members like to have a really nice, calm, maybe even ration exchange with the HOA Member that comes here?




Indeed it used to be that way when I first joined the site.
Note, many of the individuals I see as being targeted were on this site long before I was.


Posted By FredO on 09/10/2013 9:52 PM

Now, contrast that to how "some" people on this website respond to the poster.




I wish I could identify where the tone and sentiment turned. I really do.

Unfortunately, the only thing we can truly control is how we respond to any situation. We can't control how others will respond. We can try to understand it but we can't control it.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


09/11/2013 5:35 AM  
Often the initial question sets the tone:

Our BOD, like most others, does nothing but cheat, lie, steal, and rig elections. How can I fire them.

I am not satisfied with how our BOD operates. I would like to see several members replaced. Can someone advise me on how a recall works?

Sometimes the only difference is salesmanship.






FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


09/11/2013 11:09 AM  
Thank you Fred for your kind words.
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/11/2013 1:35 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/11/2013 5:35 AM
Often the initial question sets the tone:

Our BOD, like most others, does nothing but cheat, lie, steal, and rig elections. How can I fire them.

I am not satisfied with how our BOD operates. I would like to see several members replaced. Can someone advise me on how a recall works?

Sometimes the only difference is salesmanship.





JohnC46,

I agree. Hence the idea on a FAQ's list or a "read before Posting" instruction (policy) page.

I agree with Tim that some of the specific issues could be subject to changes in times and laws.

However, a "suggestion" that a poster might want to make sure they have read their HOA's governing documents before posting may find that the initial questions by posters may be less emotionally inflamed. Kind of like a cooling off period of sorts.

I know that at times the simple knee-jerk emotional reaction results in the types of statements you wrote above. However, if the OP were to go back, take the time to read their governing documents, it might even resolve the issue without ever having to post on this forum and subject you "nice" people to rash generalizations from those types of initial posts.

I have seen many of you folks respond politely and give the OP great advice as you try to (and in many cases actually do) help the OP with their issue.

Easily, the most common response by you folks has often gone like this: "Well, _____ what do your governing documents say about this issue?"
or, "Can you share the exact language with us from your governing documents so we can better advise you or help you?"

For those who do this, you have my thanks and gratitude. For those that attempt to do this, but the salesmanship (delivery) is a little off the mark, you are still appreciated for the attempt. I know how hard it is and each day is different. Again, you have my thanks.

For the small minority of members of this chat room who use any post as an excuse to attack people and put them in their place, well, those folks help to perpetuate the us & them mentality and adversarial relationship that a great many people feel when dealing with the gov't. Even the little pseudo gov'ts created by an HOA.

Personally, I feel that many of the rules and reasons for an HOA are sound and logical. But, like any gov't, there exist some rules that are just too far overreaching and intrusive that actually detract from the peace and tranquility we should each be allowed to have in our own homes. Some of these types of rules are just too petty and are definitely "the small stuff" that no one should be bothered with.

GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/11/2013 3:18 PM  
Posted By FredO on 09/11/2013

12:03 AM

>>Case in point for my HOA. Many people are now wanting to remove me because I am against disbanding the HOA. These people assume I am lying when I state the county will not take over our private roads without massive upgrades.

I am thinking that maybe you might want to try and have a County Representative come to a meeting and explain the situation to them. Sometimes, people will only hear it or believe when it comes from a second or maybe even official source.





Have a County rep come to a meeting and explain it to the people?!?! Wow why didn't I think of that "Bright idea" guy??? Where have you been all my life?!?! Here take my spot on the Board.

Let's hold a meeting and that will solve everything!!! The people will all show up in droves to this meeting unlike all others, the county rep will explain it to them for the tenth time, and everyone will believe him this time!


The "Bright Idea" guy. The kind of guy that comes in and has all these bright ideas that they want OTHERS to pursue. Even if it has already been done in the past to no avail.

"Bright idea" guy also wants to denigrate others for shooting down his ideas. Even if a Board goes along with "Bright Idea" guy, when it doesn't work, "Bright idea" guy is always there saying you just didn't do it right and follow his advice to the letter.

We all just love "Bright idea" guy. "Bright idea" guy is always big on ideas & opinion while lacking on logistics, implementation, and participation.
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/11/2013 5:04 PM  
Gee GnomeX,

You are making the case for me again. It is exactly that kind of response that gives YOU and other Board members like you on this Chat room a BAD name and Bad reputation.

You posted something with very "limited" information. How am I or anyone else to know what you have done or how many attempts you have made to explain it to your membership.

So, you don't give info and then jump all over my case for it. What the "F" do you want me to do, drive up to Washington and take care of your "F"ed up situation for you. It is precisely this sort of response that justifies people like Amin and Mike and anyone else who bashes HOA's and HOA Board members. You are sure a class act.

You could have written that you had already tried multiple things such as:
1.) newsletter explaining the County Position,
2.) Explaining at meetings the pros and cons of disbanding,
3.) having had the lawyer come and explain
4.) having the county come explain that the neighborhood might very well end up paying more in taxes thru "Special Assessment" by the county to maintain the roads

and on and on.

Instead, you "FAIL" to include this info and when someone gives an idea you slap it down and insult me. Well, "F" you and the horse you rode in on.

Again, it is you who has the problem and can't seem to communicate because you're just another keyboard commando hiding in you basement attacking others because you are incapable of solving a simple problem.

I get the feeling that your HOA membership is correct, maybe it is time to disband your HOA. It certainly sounds like it has existed well beyond its usefulness and the (per your posting) majority wants to see it disbanded.

Your problem is your problem. Looks like you are stuck in a no win situation... But remember, when you sue your HOA, you are actually suing yourself (roflmao).

GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/11/2013 5:30 PM  
Posted By FredO on 09/11/2013 5:04 PM
Gee GnomeX,

You are making the case for me again. It is exactly that kind of response that gives YOU and other Board members like you on this Chat room a BAD name and Bad reputation.

You posted something with very "limited" information. How am I or anyone else to know what you have done or how many attempts you have made to explain it to your membership.




I am sorry and I did not know it was in my job description as a Board member to stroke your minuscule ego and go along with your passive aggressive playing the victim game.
JonD1


Posts:0


09/11/2013 8:39 PM  
Kevin have you been following along?

Mike sued his own property over 10 years and LOST. Tells me his issues were invalid or baseless. Then he attacks EVERY BOD member in America and suggests they are like Nazi supporters. Down there in Florida what would YOU call that?

Amin has made accusations without a shred of evidence as to criminal acts by his Board. Then he refuses to visit the MC to see the records hey are willing to make available and decides not only his or her Board are crooks but ALL HOA Boards are filled with crooks or liars. Would you wish to serve on a Board dealing with such an idiot?
Who assumes you are all crooks while not being able to prove one damn thing?

Frank belittles the efforts and time spent by ANY HOA Board member by concluding ANYONE including him could step into an HOA Board position and do nothing but handle it without any real effort. Tehn he jumps inot the lap of Crazy Mike cheering him on as if this moron have something valuable to say. Then when Mike rides off into the sunset after losing ANOTHER court decision Frank remains silent about that news. His BRAVEHEART his HERO lost again.

And Fred, another of Mike's puppets who has never served on a Board who now claims WE are making changes. That means someone else is doing the work and heavy lifting and Fred is watching. Fred who makes up numbers, makes up facts, makes up his own version of reality about things he simply knows nothing about. And Fred is a liar. Now maybe in the Sunshine state you can find some positive things to say about people like this. I can't.

I would suggest you go back and read some of Mike's early posts.
I would suggest you review the words of Amin the crime fighter. And then you can read the opinions and theories of Frank and Fred the two HOA home schooled savants who have opinions and complaints about
everything just not any first hand knowledge to back any of it up.

JonD1


Posts:0


09/11/2013 8:47 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 09/10/2013 8:44 PM
John

Yes I am am owner in my association, Have been the President of the association as well as being on a number of committees. I re-wrote our Bylaws and CCRs and created our election rules as required in California. Probably did more in 5 years than Jon did in 25 years. In 5 years, I have put in my time.




And you would base those comments on what Dick?

Like Fred nothing.

Must be something in the water out there.

Just make it up as you go along.

Yes, Dick among other things you must be a legend in your own mind.

Time to tkae a rest.............................
RichardP13


Posts:0


09/11/2013 8:56 PM  
Jon

I was replying to JohnC46 you disrespectful asshole!
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


09/11/2013 8:58 PM  
Jon,

I feel bad for you. You don't even recognize that you have become the person you spew the most hatred for-Mike. Your fixation on the same people over and over-you are a broken record and with each post your credibility declines further.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


09/11/2013 9:02 PM  
I lost track of this post awhile back... Seems if your a board member your decisions are wrong/crooked/selfish. If you don't make a decision at all, your a coward and lazy. If you admit you are a board member and the hard work it takes, you a liar because lazy people can do the job. Proof by them not attending a meeting nor reading a single document. We are criticized for what "others" do in HOA's they have heard about in headlines or assumed in their fantasy minds... The fact that each HOA is it's own entity and operates under it's own powers. Suggesting HOA members go to the Federal government or their state asking for more government control in their HOA's is 9 times out of 10 shooting yourself and others in the foot. Just look at the Florida law mess... Plus you have to consider many of your legislators or government officials themselves live in HOA's.

You know what? I am someone who served on their board and as President. I have no shame in that and proud of what I achieved while in office. So stop cramming garbage down my throat about it. Put the garbage where it belongs out on the curb. I will just be there when it's out on a Friday and garbage pickup is on Monday with a violation notice... Which is the very thing you want your board to do, enforcing restrictions.

Former HOA President
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/11/2013 9:56 PM  
Both the Universe and Jon's stupidity are infinite. And, I am not so sure about the Universe!

Jon is now in a place of having ZERO credibility about any subject.

Such a sad thing (but funny as hell in this case).



MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


09/11/2013 10:15 PM  
Who's universe are you talking about? Jon has plenty of credibility and respect in mine and others on this page. Notice the number of posts under his name. You don't stay here with that many posts under your belt without some kind of cred. Jon has "Street cred".

If you don't like how Jon responds to you then don't respond back. Simple as that. The definition of "Crazy" is repeating the same action over and over again expecting a different result. The result here is you and everyone else here knows Jon is going to speak his mind and tell you the way it is. He's not going to make up some fantasy and paint everything/everyone with a broad paint brush.

My suggestion is if you don't like the advice someone is giving you don't take it. Don't like the attitude don't give it back. You get what you put out. Jon is a big boy who can handle himself and take what he puts out.

If you told me that one day I would stand up for JonD, I would have laughed. Now, I have to say it's not so funny and got respect for what he has to say. He's earned it by showing his hard work and hard words of truth.

Former HOA President
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/11/2013 10:16 PM  
Posted By GnomeX on 09/11/2013 5:30 PM




I am sorry and I did not know it was in my job description as a Board member to stroke your minuscule ego and go along with your passive aggressive playing the victim game.





Well Gomer,

You said it! You are sorry. A sorry excuse for a human being. I am surprised that you even know what a job description is. Another of the living legends in his own mind who hides in mommy's basement wishing he were man enough to go out in the big bad world.

I will be looking at the Seattle Post waiting to see the headline about you and your HOA.
Based on your attitude, the headline will probably be along the lines of you blowing a gasket at a monthly meeting because your membership wants you out.

Maybe it's time for you to take a hint. If they are all telling you to leave, you should get a clue and leave. They can't all be wrong when it's all of them against you. You kind of seem to be like Mike in the opposite dilemma. Where as Mike was the only one in his HOA who wanted it disbanded, you are the only one in your HOA that wants to keep it.

Sorry, in the real world, some HOA's decide it is no longer worth it and disband. I don't think your argument of the HOA having a fiduciary responsibility to maintain or protect the assets of the HOA will hold much if any water with the many instances of cities, towns, school districts and such that are going bankrupt. You can try to stop it, but it will be like wearing a dark suit and pissing in your pants. It might give you a warm feeling but no one will care.

You do know how much you sound like "Mike" with your lawsuit talk... (you are hilarious)

It's going to be fun watching you and this train wreck go the distance. You're kinda like a hybrid of JonD1 and Mike.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:10521


09/11/2013 10:25 PM  
Disbanding an HOA is one of the stupidest and expensive ideas ever. Sorry but NOT all HOA's are made equal nor do they need to disband. Let me tell you something. My HOA if it was to disband, would have to be turned over to a Management company. Meaning the MC sets the dues, enforces their rules, and the owners would have not one vote/say. Disbanding your HOA gives up your power and adds to your liabilities.

My dues in the HOA were $50 a month. That covered lawncare, garbage pickup, recycling, pool/clubhouse access, liability insurance protection, and keeping property in good shape. My non-HOA home? I have to mow my own yard, I have no pool/clubhouse, and pay for garbage/recycling. Which means every 2 weeks I pay out $40 for lawncare alone. It's another $15 for garbage pickup. If I had a pool, I'd be responsible for all the care/maintenance costs. My expenses have doubled/tripled by NOT being in a HOA. A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. It is much cheaper to pay $2100 in lawncare expenses by 107 homeowners than just me.

Don't like your HOA, disbanding isn't the answer. The answer is to get involved in it. Share and share alike...or get out.

Former HOA President
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/11/2013 10:48 PM  
Posted By FredO on 09/11/2013 10:16 PM

Sorry, in the real world, some HOA's decide it is no longer worth it and disband. I don't think your argument of the HOA having a fiduciary responsibility to maintain or protect the assets of the HOA will hold much if any water with the many instances of cities, towns, school districts and such that are going bankrupt. You can try to stop it, but it will be like wearing a dark suit and pissing in your pants. It might give you a warm feeling but no one will care.




Da big bad Board member talk meanz ta us so we should disband da HOA...

FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/11/2013 11:28 PM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/11/2013 10:25 PM
Disbanding an HOA is one of the stupidest and expensive ideas ever. Sorry but NOT all HOA's are made equal nor do they need to disband. Let me tell you something. My HOA if it was to disband, would have to be turned over to a Management company. Meaning the MC sets the dues, enforces their rules, and the owners would have not one vote/say. Disbanding your HOA gives up your power and adds to your liabilities.

My dues in the HOA were $50 a month. That covered lawncare, garbage pickup, recycling, pool/clubhouse access, liability insurance protection, and keeping property in good shape. My non-HOA home? I have to mow my own yard, I have no pool/clubhouse, and pay for garbage/recycling. Which means every 2 weeks I pay out $40 for lawncare alone. It's another $15 for garbage pickup. If I had a pool, I'd be responsible for all the care/maintenance costs. My expenses have doubled/tripled by NOT being in a HOA. A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. It is much cheaper to pay $2100 in lawncare expenses by 107 homeowners than just me.

Don't like your HOA, disbanding isn't the answer. The answer is to get involved in it. Share and share alike...or get out.




MelissaP1,

No one is talking about your HOA. Your HOA is not relevant to GnomeX's post. The town I live in had an (open neighborhood) HOA which decided to dis-band.
They had one clubhouse and pool with very little common area. The town was given the pool and clubhouse (deeded over to the town) and the small section of common area that is now a creek side part/park. The town turned it into a community center. The streets were open (not a gated community) so that made things easy on the community property side of the coin. They used their reserve funds to fund the legal costs in relieving the deed restrictions on all the owner plots. They did not need a special MC appointed by the town to run things and the new community center & pool is managed by the parks dept. Turned out to be a win-win for that neighborhood. (My HOA holds our monthly meetings there and we have talked with some of the neighbors from there).

That said, of course every situation is different. My HOA could never disband because of the cost and the amenities we have. We'd end up with an appointed MC and special taxes on us to fund it all. So, that would be a worse situation than we have now. We've done the CBA on this and the discussion was put to bed.

Not the same issue as what GnomeX describes from his HOA. He has stated they have a clubhouse type of structure and private roads. The roads he has already said the County will not take without them (HOA) paying for major improvements. Regardless it sound, from GnomeX's posts that the majority of owners want to disband.

We're just going to have to watch it play out.
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/11/2013 11:53 PM  
Posted By FredO on 09/11/2013 11:28 PM

from GnomeX's posts that the majority of owners want to disband.




Funny thing is. I never said that. That's twice now for those keeping score.
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/12/2013 12:16 AM  
Posted By GnomeX on 09/11/2013 11:53 PM
Posted By FredO on 09/11/2013 11:28 PM

from GnomeX's posts that the majority of owners want to disband.




Funny thing is. I never said that. That's twice now for those keeping score.





On this post of GnomeX earlier in this thread:

GnomeX 09/11/2013 6:22 AM
(Washington)

Posts:118

He states the following:

Case in point for my HOA. Many people are now wanting to remove me because I am against disbanding the HOA.


So let them remove me. IF the deadbeats succeed, and they elect a Board willing to let a million dollar clubhouse rot to the ground, I and a MINORITY of other members are going to file a lawsuit
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yep, he/she states "many people". So he didn't use the word majority... let's get specific.
But then he/she goes on to say , let them remove me.... and they elect a board willing.......

So, it takes a majority to remove someone (by vote, unless they do it differently in WA state) and during Board elections it takes a majority of votes to elect the board members of course it must be different in asshole's HOA.
So, asshole didn't use the word majority - got me there, However the intent of both statements is the same...

You must be JonD1 you are using his writing style. Maybe your multiple personality disorder coming to the surface since you went off your meds?




JonD1


Posts:0


09/12/2013 5:09 AM  
So lets be clear Fred likes to make facts up and misrepresent what people said.

And none of the anti HOA zealots have come to this site to ask questions.

Mike came to preach and praise himself as to all he was doing and advise others to follow suit for HIS cause.

Amin asked a question dozens of times was given answers an equal amoun fo times and then decided to atack everyone and preach the word according to him.

Frank whined like a little girl abou how the developers prevented him from serving on he Board. He was told his is standard operating procedure during their buildout. Afterall they have their money covering the entire cost of the project and it would be in their best interest to retain control. Fairly simple concept. Frank though has an axe to grind with his HOA and all others because he in his mind was wronged. End of questions on to the accusations.

And Fred too. My HOA did his and all the members on this site need to listen and hear me moan about it.

So lets put to rest the explanation Fred is feeling bashed because he and others simply came here to ask questions. Just another lie Fred has made in the hopes some migh fial to see through it.

Fred, Mike, Amin and Frank are all unhappy campers and the rest of us need to acknowledge that each and every day to their satisfaction. Because its the HOAs fault!

At least Mike had the good sense to go away..................

KarenC15
(Florida)

Posts:118


09/12/2013 8:33 AM  
I do agree that there is a fundamental imbalance in the way HOAs are regulated.

Your neighbors on the board have access to the funds, so taking legal action is easy when it's not your own money (or all your own in this example).

Lawyers probably like HOAs because they know they can afford the action, versus an individual who probably cannot (if they had thousands laying around, they would probably just move and be done with it).

Thus, the law probably needs to change to require legal actions are funded personally by the board members unless a magistrate or other official deems it in the interest of the HOA rather than a personal vendetta. Perhaps legal action must require a 75% majority vote too.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


09/12/2013 8:42 AM  
Jon,

I don't whine at all, it is unproductive. I take action. And being very successful I might add. I don't care at all what a bunch of people I don't know think about me. How does what they think even matter?

I can tell you this. When I enrolled in Marine Corps Officer Candidate School I did so because I wanted to find out a little bit about myself. I wasn't sure where I measured up in life at the age of 19, but had to find out. The week before I went down I completed a full marathon. My PFT scores were 27 pullups, 105 sit-ups in 2 minutes and sub 18 minutes in the 3 mile run. Any other Marines on here would tell you that is, well outstanding even by Marine standards.

I was very un-sure of myself still, as most of us are at that age. But, I would rather find out how tough (mentally and physically) I really was than wonder about it like most guys do for the rest of their lives. You see, I would rather try and fail than not try at all. I continue to live my life that way, even with my HOA. When I arrived at boot, there were the "tough" guys who let everyone know how bad they were, every time they had the chance. At first I was a bit intimidated by them. Funny, these were ALWAYS the first guys to DOR-drop on request-something I never even considered. I have no doubt you are cut from the same mold as those pretenders. I have no doubt you can not even comprehend what I am talking about here. In fact, this is the ultimate slam to a man-which you are not.

Attack my views all you want on this thread and any other I participate on. I'm fair game when I express my views. But to keep going after Mike when he is not even around, one of two things explains that. Mike either got under your skin so bad or you have strong feelings of "admiration" for him. You can not even post without bringing his name into the discussion. This is the type of behavior typically shown by a scorned lover.

Melissa,

I don't know how many times I have said this, but please read it again. I believe to my core that most Board members are good decent people trying to give back to their community. I think more than a few Boards though are dominated by a controlling personality that has an agenda. This person is able to make things go there way because in my experience, many, even most, Board members are not familiar with their governing documents and so they are not capable of standing up to the bully because they have no idea how full of manure he is. Further, the bully is great at recruiting people with personalities that do not like conflict, and so will avoid it which allows this person to continue to have his own way.

Things usually have to get bad enough because the bully went too far, which then causes enough other members who normally have more important things going on in their lives to finally pay attention. This is when the conflicts erupt openly and we read about it here or in the news.

There are many posters here who I immediately feel that if they were on my Board I could go back to ignoring what was happening in my community-I would trust them that much. I have already pointed out more than one with open compliments. Many others have mentioned Tim as just one of the people who is respected for not only his knowledge, but his approach.

So please quit looking for pity or compliments for Board members. We do not think they are all bad. We do think some of the obnoxious ones would be terrible to have in our communities. One's personality is not totally different on a blog than it is at home. The Board members that get upset with the discussions here should just not participate in them. Lead by example, show people they will get better feedback if they show some respect.

Thanks, and I do appreciate your passion for the work that Board members provide to their community-usually for free!
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/12/2013 11:16 AM  
Posted By FredO on 09/12/2013 12:16 AM
Posted By GnomeX on 09/11/2013 11:53 PM
Posted By FredO on 09/11/2013 11:28 PM

from GnomeX's posts that the majority of owners want to disband.




Funny thing is. I never said that. That's twice now for those keeping score.





On this post of GnomeX earlier in this thread:

GnomeX 09/11/2013 6:22 AM
(Washington)

Posts:118

He states the following:

Case in point for my HOA. Many people are now wanting to remove me because I am against disbanding the HOA.


So let them remove me. IF the deadbeats succeed, and they elect a Board willing to let a million dollar clubhouse rot to the ground, I and a MINORITY of other members are going to file a lawsuit
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yep, he/she states "many people". So he didn't use the word majority... let's get specific.
But then he/she goes on to say , let them remove me.... and they elect a board willing.......

So, it takes a majority to remove someone (by vote, unless they do it differently in WA state) and during Board elections it takes a majority of votes to elect the board members of course it must be different in asshole's HOA.
So, asshole didn't use the word majority - got me there, However the intent of both statements is the same...

You must be JonD1 you are using his writing style. Maybe your multiple personality disorder coming to the surface since you went off your meds?








Nowhere did I state a majority want to disband. And notice I qualified my statement with IF... IF the deadbeats succeed in removing me. A majority at a meeting is hardly a majority of the owners. But that doesn't stop FredO from using his stunning intellect to assume that means a MAJORITY of the owners want to now disband. *facepalm*

Reading and comprehension. Especially of governing documents. Some people cannot read a post without interjecting their fake facts and bogus logic. So it is no wonder people like FredO are anti-HOA. They are too ignorant of their governing documents and lack the intelligence necessary to understand them.

BTW I just called you an idiot in case it went over your head.
RichardP13


Posts:0


09/12/2013 11:23 AM  
"Reading and comprehension. Especially of governing documents. Some people cannot read a post without interjecting their fake facts and bogus logic. They are too ignorant of their governing documents and lack the intelligence necessary to understand them."

That pretty much sums up the Boards I was asked to manage.
JonD1


Posts:0


09/12/2013 11:56 AM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 09/10/2013 8:44 PM
John

Yes I am am owner in my association, Have been the President of the association as well as being on a number of committees. I re-wrote our Bylaws and CCRs and created our election rules as required in California. Probably did more in 5 years than Jon did in 25 years. In 5 years, I have put in my time.




So Dick from California like Fred just makes claims and assumptions based on zero.

Yes, Dick in his own mind has done more because he says so.

Just how might anyone have an exchange with people like Dick and Fred when facts are never required?

How many times has Fred actually relied on facts
versus his opinions ans lies?

Windbag may have been too kind..............
RichardP13


Posts:0


09/12/2013 12:14 PM  
Jon

Don't EVER call me Dick. My friends don't call me that, and you sure aren't my friend!!

What facts do you want.

I have lived in an HOA for 5+ years. Have been heavily involved from day one. Had to deal with thugs like you. Had a PM and attorney rig an election.

Went out and got support from community and re-wrote the Bylaws. Out of 317 homes, we got 240 yes votes, only stopped collecting ballots because we got tired.

Fired the PM and attorney. Changed the way we did our water billing and saved association $200K in 1 1/2 years.

How long did it take you to make changes, 10 years? We did it in less than two. I am also guessing you have a smaller community with less responsibilities. Our association works on an annual budget over $1M and works in conjunction with another local association.

Am certified by CAI (Community Association Institute) as a CMCA (Certified Manager of Community Association) and AMS (Association Management Specialist. It's the most you can get certified within five years. Belong to two CAI local chapters.

Worked as a property manager for 2 1/2 years and then started my own management company.

Jon, those are facts and are verifiable. Can you verify your [email protected]!!



JonD1


Posts:0


09/12/2013 12:20 PM  
Posted By FrankS10 on 09/12/2013 8:42 AM
Jon,

I don't whine at all, it is unproductive. I take action. And being very successful I might add. I don't care at all what a bunch of people I don't know think about me. How does what they think even matter?

I can tell you this. When I enrolled in Marine Corps Officer Candidate School I did so because I wanted to find out a little bit about myself. I wasn't sure where I measured up in life at the age of 19, but had to find out. The week before I went down I completed a full marathon. My PFT scores were 27 pullups, 105 sit-ups in 2 minutes and sub 18 minutes in the 3 mile run. Any other Marines on here would tell you that is, well outstanding even by Marine standards.

I was very un-sure of myself still, as most of us are at that age. But, I would rather find out how tough (mentally and physically) I really was than wonder about it like most guys do for the rest of their lives. You see, I would rather try and fail than not try at all. I continue to live my life that way, even with my HOA. When I arrived at boot, there were the "tough" guys who let everyone know how bad they were, every time they had the chance. At first I was a bit intimidated by them. Funny, these were ALWAYS the first guys to DOR-drop on request-something I never even considered. I have no doubt you are cut from the same mold as those pretenders. I have no doubt you can not even comprehend what I am talking about here. In fact, this is the ultimate slam to a man-which you are not.

Attack my views all you want on this thread and any other I participate on. I'm fair game when I express my views. But to keep going after Mike when he is not even around, one of two things explains that. Mike either got under your skin so bad or you have strong feelings of "admiration" for him. You can not even post without bringing his name into the discussion. This is the type of behavior typically shown by a scorned lover.

Melissa,

I don't know how many times I have said this, but please read it again. I believe to my core that most Board members are good decent people trying to give back to their community. I think more than a few Boards though are dominated by a controlling personality that has an agenda. This person is able to make things go there way because in my experience, many, even most, Board members are not familiar with their governing documents and so they are not capable of standing up to the bully because they have no idea how full of manure he is. Further, the bully is great at recruiting people with personalities that do not like conflict, and so will avoid it which allows this person to continue to have his own way.

Things usually have to get bad enough because the bully went too far, which then causes enough other members who normally have more important things going on in their lives to finally pay attention. This is when the conflicts erupt openly and we read about it here or in the news.

There are many posters here who I immediately feel that if they were on my Board I could go back to ignoring what was happening in my community-I would trust them that much. I have already pointed out more than one with open compliments. Many others have mentioned Tim as just one of the people who is respected for not only his knowledge, but his approach.

So please quit looking for pity or compliments for Board members. We do not think they are all bad. We do think some of the obnoxious ones would be terrible to have in our communities. One's personality is not totally different on a blog than it is at home. The Board members that get upset with the discussions here should just not participate in them. Lead by example, show people they will get better feedback if they show some respect.

Thanks, and I do appreciate your passion for the work that Board members provide to their community-usually for free!





Again Frank along with your perfect driving record, long-term marriage, and knowledge of the Bible what does this stroll down memory lane have to do with anything? Besides pumping up your ego.

Yes, we get it you ARE special in every way. But that still does not change the fact you did WHINE like a small child about how the developer kept you off the Board. If I were in his place I would have done the same.

And your sit-ups while impressive to yourself gives you little real credibility when it comes to serving or managing an HOA.

And in terms of Mike YOU were the one who ran to his side and jumped up into his lap. You were the one with the BroMance jumping to his defense and defending the indefensible.
You were the one who saw him as a positive fighter for truth, justice and the American way.
Remember Frank your FREEDOM line about you comparing him to Braveheart?

Guess maybe your judgment was a little off...........

Guess Braveheart is taking a powder after his most recent defeat. My how the once mighty have fallen. The smackdown artist, the man's man, the real American who lived to fight for the Constitution well he seems to have folded like a cheap suit. Ten years of failure will do that to you.

Your HERO Frank down the drain. Now who might you cheer-lead for?

But now you would like to forget Mike and turn your back on him as if he never existed.
Just another mis-step, another poor judgment on your part lets sweep that under the rug.

IMO your anti-HOA leanings are just as bad as Mike's but I at least respected Mike because he said what he felt no matter what. You hide behind others and pretend to be someone you are not. A man a principle.

Show me who you walk with and I will tell you who you are.

YOU Frank walked with Mike. Tells me all I need to know no matter how many pull ups you could do at 19.

Dr. Phil wrote all about people like you.............................


JonD1


Posts:0


09/12/2013 12:29 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 09/12/2013 12:14 PM
Jon

Don't EVER call me Dick. My friends don't call me that, and you sure aren't my friend!!

What facts do you want.

I have lived in an HOA for 5+ years. Have been heavily involved from day one. Had to deal with thugs like you. Had a PM and attorney rig an election.

Went out and got support from community and re-wrote the Bylaws. Out of 317 homes, we got 240 yes votes, only stopped collecting ballots because we got tired.

Fired the PM and attorney. Changed the way we did our water billing and saved association $200K in 1 1/2 years.

How long did it take you to make changes, 10 years? We did it in less than two. I am also guessing you have a smaller community with less responsibilities. Our association works on an annual budget over $1M and works in conjunction with another local association.

Am certified by CAI (Community Association Institute) as a CMCA (Certified Manager of Community Association) and AMS (Association Management Specialist. It's the most you can get certified within five years. Belong to two CAI local chapters.

Worked as a property manager for 2 1/2 years and then started my own management company.

Jon, those are facts and are verifiable. Can you verify your [email protected]!!

Dick sounds like you have your shorts in a bunch.

Still doesn't change your claims based on nothing.

You know nothing about what I have done.

But when you are arrogant that allows you to judge without facts.

Like Fred you live in your own world where you have done it all and know all and anyone else can't know as much as you EVER!

To that end you make claims you cannot support.

Because Dick says so................






RichardP13


Posts:0


09/12/2013 12:37 PM  
Jon

"But when you are arrogant that allows you to judge without facts. "

You must be speaking from personal experience.
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/12/2013 1:13 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 09/10/2013 8:44 PM
John

Yes I am am owner in my association, Have been the President of the association as well as being on a number of committees. I re-wrote our Bylaws and CCRs and created our election rules as required in California. Probably did more in 5 years than Jon did in 25 years. In 5 years, I have put in my time.




Are you a practicing attorney RichardP13?
RichardP13


Posts:0


09/12/2013 1:32 PM  
GnoneX

If you are referring to the re-writing of the governing documents, I did that in conjunction with an attorney and at the law firm that owned the management company where I worked. The election rules are now in 40 associations that I managed and at no cost to the HOA.
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/12/2013 1:36 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 09/12/2013 1:32 PM
GnoneX

If you are referring to the re-writing of the governing documents, I did that in conjunction with an attorney and at the law firm that owned the management company where I worked. The election rules are now in 40 associations that I managed and at no cost to the HOA.




Just going to say as long as you run it by an attorney. We've had Boards in our HOA do that and cause serious legal problems after.
RichardP13


Posts:0


09/12/2013 1:39 PM  
The election rules are my work, their blessing.
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


09/12/2013 2:45 PM  
Jon,

I knew you would have the same response as always because you are not bright enough, or man enough to get the point. So I'll spell it out for you.

Most of us learned at an early age who we are and what we are made of. I'm sure Dr. Phil would tell you your keyboard commando tactics are a result of trying to be something you know you are not but want to be and can get away with in an environment where people don't know you. It is a result of an immense inferiority complex, which no doubt you earned.

I just knew you could not make a post without mentioning Mike. Please, ask Dr. Phil for some help with that. Jon what you say does not bother me in the least, but it is obvious what others say about you weighs constantly on your mind. When I first came here, only Mike was on your list, now there are 4 of us. I bet when you are done the entire site membership will be on your hate list, except for Melissa. How many neighbors are on your hate list? Do you think more of them are on yours, or are you on all of theirs? LOL! I guess we know why you have closed meetings now.

Try and respond without mentioning Mike. I bet you can do it if you really try.

I'm just toying with you, you know it is all in fun right? You seem like the type who is not wrapped too tight and can have fun bantering.

Pause......Think.....Remove Mike's name from your response.

There ya go!
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:276


09/12/2013 3:53 PM  
Jon,

Now my honest response to this thread:

The developers have kept me off of the Board because they no longer have a free lunch with the HOA money. Integrity is more important than a title to polish up a resume, at least to me.

The developers relinquished control of the Board over for a two year period. The Chief Legal Counsel for a large national organization, easily name recognized by everyone, was appointed president. I approached the new president with the concerns several of us had. For six months he disagreed with me and sided with the developers. It was easy to convince him to appoint a Finance Committee to look into our allegations as he is a man of integrity, but also understood his fiduciary responsibility to the membership. I also convinced him to let me chair it as the most vocal critic could be silenced once and for all if none of our allegations bore fruit.

Between the 3 members appointed to the FC we had over 75 years combined experience in operations management/budget responsibility. All of us have at least a bachelor's degree in business, with two holding graduate degrees including me. Our allegations were spot on, and we tempered the report just to keep us out of any legal repercussions. The president immediately started to make changes, the ones we recommended, that have remained in place to this day. But at a cost. Board elections took place 2 months after we submitted our report, and although this president reaped the highest number of membership votes, over-whelmingly in fact, the developers took back control of the Board by using their class B votes to place themselves on the Board and prevent him from being re-elected. Two of the remaining 3 Board members resigned, one immediately and a second that was elected that night resigned within 2 months because of ethical concerns he would not be part of. Our attendance at meetings since this occurred in 2010 has been virtually zero as people understand they have no say until the class b voting privileges are removed.

Do you understand it is not just me they keep off the Board, but also one of the most popular people in our neighborhood? I hesitate to say too much on this site, but have shared this so your limited fan club here can realize how little you know about what is going on in other people's neighborhoods but that doesn't stop you from using a bazooka on them. Facts don't matter to people like you. Single-handedly you do more to advance the cause of HOA critics than anyone else on this site. I bet the good Board members, which is the vast majority, would like to have you shut up.

Remember some of this the next time your selective memory starts working. Also remember a friend of theirs employed in law enforcement was also appointed to our Board. He showed up for one meeting, in uniform. Wrong move as I am not easily intimidated which was the intent no doubt. When he did not attend future meetings he received a call from me, and I posted the particulars before, he resigned.

I am not on the Board, but a group of us have accomplished more than the Board has. And it is not "I", but WE. Working with others seems to be a good strategy that people having conflict with their Boards need to remember and rely on.

If you want to know why we revolt, it because of arrogant people like you Jon who feel they can do whatever they want. And they can until someone comes along and calls their bluff.

Now you can really bluster away you little blow-hard
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


09/12/2013 4:38 PM  
Frank

After all the posts and talking, I am disappointed that it is just now coming out that your association is still under Declarant control. Did I miss something along the way?

Did you (and the National Company Great Fubar you reference) not realize that when push came to shove, the Declarant still controls?

Seems you have a lot of "Great Fubars and others with Certification up the Wazoo" that really do not understand when push comes to shove, how a Declarant Association associations really works.

Is this the Peter Principle at work or just some peeing against the tide as it feels good?
RichardP13


Posts:0


09/12/2013 5:03 PM  
JohnC46,

Curious as to who you are referencing by "certification up the wazoo"
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/12/2013 6:06 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 09/12/2013 1:39 PM
The election rules are my work, their blessing.




Careful now...

FredO might start accusing you of crossing into the dark side with that "Air of Superiority".
RichardP13


Posts:0


09/12/2013 6:43 PM  
Through my work, I actually know Fred, and yes, as he says, he got the short end of the stick.
GnomeX
(Washington)

Posts:253


09/12/2013 7:13 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 09/12/2013 6:43 PM
Through my work, I actually know Fred, and yes, as he says, he got the short end of the stick.




From his posts, looks like "the stick" isn't the only thing he is short on.
JonD1


Posts:0


09/12/2013 7:38 PM  
Posted By RichardP13 on 09/12/2013 1:32 PM
GnoneX

If you are referring to the re-writing of the governing documents, I did that in conjunction with an attorney and at the law firm that owned the management company where I worked. The election rules are now in 40 associations that I managed and at no cost to the HOA.




So you begin to notice how Dick like Fred uses words to their advantage. Giving the IMPRESSION THEY did the actual work.

When in fact they presided over an attorney doing the work.

Life in La La Land.

WE did this. And we did that. And I have certificates to prove just how much I know.

Dick rewrote zippo. And no Dick has no law degree. Just a Masters in HOT air.
JonD1


Posts:0


09/12/2013 7:55 PM  
Posted By FrankS10 on 09/12/2013 3:53 PM
Jon,

Now my honest response to this thread:

The developers have kept me off of the Board because they no longer have a free lunch with the HOA money. Integrity is more important than a title to polish up a resume, at least to me.

The developers relinquished control of the Board over for a two year period. The Chief Legal Counsel for a large national organization, easily name recognized by everyone, was appointed president. I approached the new president with the concerns several of us had. For six months he disagreed with me and sided with the developers. It was easy to convince him to appoint a Finance Committee to look into our allegations as he is a man of integrity, but also understood his fiduciary responsibility to the membership. I also convinced him to let me chair it as the most vocal critic could be silenced once and for all if none of our allegations bore fruit.

Between the 3 members appointed to the FC we had over 75 years combined experience in operations management/budget responsibility. All of us have at least a bachelor's degree in business, with two holding graduate degrees including me. Our allegations were spot on, and we tempered the report just to keep us out of any legal repercussions. The president immediately started to make changes, the ones we recommended, that have remained in place to this day. But at a cost. Board elections took place 2 months after we submitted our report, and although this president reaped the highest number of membership votes, over-whelmingly in fact, the developers took back control of the Board by using their class B votes to place themselves on the Board and prevent him from being re-elected. Two of the remaining 3 Board members resigned, one immediately and a second that was elected that night resigned within 2 months because of ethical concerns he would not be part of. Our attendance at meetings since this occurred in 2010 has been virtually zero as people understand they have no say until the class b voting privileges are removed.

Do you understand it is not just me they keep off the Board, but also one of the most popular people in our neighborhood? I hesitate to say too much on this site, but have shared this so your limited fan club here can realize how little you know about what is going on in other people's neighborhoods but that doesn't stop you from using a bazooka on them. Facts don't matter to people like you. Single-handedly you do more to advance the cause of HOA critics than anyone else on this site. I bet the good Board members, which is the vast majority, would like to have you shut up.

Remember some of this the next time your selective memory starts working. Also remember a friend of theirs employed in law enforcement was also appointed to our Board. He showed up for one meeting, in uniform. Wrong move as I am not easily intimidated which was the intent no doubt. When he did not attend future meetings he received a call from me, and I posted the particulars before, he resigned.

I am not on the Board, but a group of us have accomplished more than the Board has. And it is not "I", but WE. Working with others seems to be a good strategy that people having conflict with their Boards need to remember and rely on.

If you want to know why we revolt, it because of arrogant people like you Jon who feel they can do whatever they want. And they can until someone comes along and calls their bluff.

Now you can really bluster away you little blow-hard




Sorry Frank not all that impressed.

Sounds like lots of spinning your wheels and could have beens.

Common trait among you and the like minded group you are so fond of.
Lots of words, promises, and patting yourself on the back. Just not much actually done.

And as you, Fred and Dick all do you make statements about me as if you have some idea.
The truth is and I have pointed this out a number of times but you choose to ignore it you know NOTHING about me, what I have done on this property, and how I behave.

I simply dislike dickheads such as yourself. And no matter how many combined years of who cares you have that won't ever change.

And to be honest I have tired of your whining and complaining. The big bad developer won't allow me to serve on the Board even with my clean driving record! If I were the developer I would do the same.

But this is all in fun right?????????

I'm laughing....................
JonD1


Posts:0


09/12/2013 7:58 PM  
Posted By GnomeX on 09/12/2013 7:13 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 09/12/2013 6:43 PM
Through my work, I actually know Fred, and yes, as he says, he got the short end of the stick.




From his posts, looks like "the stick" isn't the only thing he is short on.





Thanks for a good chuckle GnomeX


JonD1


Posts:0


09/12/2013 8:14 PM  
FrankS10
(Kansas)

Posts:157



07/12/2013 3:12 PM Quote Reply


Mike,

No doubt your perspective is validated by your experience. Again, I am just not a big government type of guy. I would rather encourage replication of properly functioning HOAs voluntarily rather than by force of Big Brother.

But, as of yet you can criticize me for pie in the sky thinking as I have not come up with a solution to accomplish the above. I still think some type of requirement to serve would be worthwhile, and again this could be administered by the "committee" I mentioned earlier that would handle mediations as well and be paid for by assessing a fee to each HOA within the jurisdiction. Certification would include mandatory classes on trustee responsibilities/avoiding conflicts of interest/understanding governing documents etc.. Yet even this would involve government in some capacity.

Maybe you are correct in that a hard line is the only feasible solution. I am not the brightest bulb, but I would think copying what a successfully managed HOA looks like would not be that difficult?

My first question on the certification exam would be to name any three of the Commandments.

Question 2 would be how many Commandments were given to Moses?

I mean we still are a country based on Common Law (Case as well.) right? Smile

Maybe I will have a difficult time getting elected after all!
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


09/12/2013 10:12 PM  
JonD1,

Since you broached the subject, how about you tell us what were your qualifications to run for the Board your first time at your HOA?

I can understand, that now, you have all these years of experience that qualifies you. I would like to know, so please explain, what exactly were:

1. Your actual qualifications
2. the requirements or qualifications outlined in your governing documents.

Same thing with GnomeX. Please tell us the answers as they apply to you?

This post is not attacking you in any way.

How about it?

Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Respectful perspective on why HOA Members revolt against HOAs



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