Get 1 year of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Monday, October 18, 2021











HOATalk is a free service of Community123.com:

Easy to use website tools to help your board
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Suing my HOA
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Page 4 of 4 << < 1234
Author Messages
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


07/24/2013 1:37 PM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 07/24/2013 12:31 PM
Give it a rest already you vile little man!




Mike, see, he can't. he is addicted to being a troll. He spends so much time on this site and responding to nearly every thread that there just is not enough time in the day for him to be a 25 year running president of his 130+ unit HOA, or to hold down a job.

Sorry Little Johnny, I have to get back to work at my real job to make enough money to pay the federal Social Security Taxes that currently fund your life.
It is obvious to many of us that you suffer from severe mental deficits and are in need of this disability income.
It is also very obvious that with your attitude that you could never hold on to a real job let alone get one. So, you are most likely getting welfare checks too.

For all we know little johnny, you are living on the couch in your mother's basement playing internet tough guy on this site.

You're just a bully and the more you post the more the others on this site see it.
You lob personal attacks at everyone who has a dissenting opinion or a different view than you hold.

You constantly show how you hold HOA members in contempt. I would have to say that your time (if true) as board president has turned you into a world class asshole and cynic.

In your post about fining, the three examples you gave, what were the rules that these folks violated that results in those fines?
You have rules about playing in the parking area? Seriously?
You have rules about driving on the lawn? it happens so much there that you have a specific fine for it as well?

In my HOA, if you cause damage to the common area's we go after you to pay for the cost to bring it back to pre-damage condition. We don't fine for it because it happens so infrequently there is no need for a fine.

You fined the guy because he broke his own unit's window and made some noise. Gee, first offense is usually a warning letter. You said it yourself, the cops did nothing except issue a warning. So, you as president have the power to fine. Is this so you can teach them all a lesson?

Sounds like your HOA is not very friendly at all. Why would anyone want to live there?

WOW! After reading that post of yours, it is no wonder that HOA's have the bad rep that they have.

A little heavy handed don't you think? I'll bet you in your 25 years on the board had a huge hand in developing these rules and fines.
Sounds like you had a definite agenda for being on the board. And therein lies one of the big problems with HOA Boards. It is people who after too long on the board have lost sight of the original intent of the overall property and then they set out to mold and evolve the HOA into something that "they" want, not the rest of the membership.

We had that happen at my current HOA. The ruling "junta" started to mandate things that were contrary to the written documents. That and the very selective enforcement of the CC&R's. They went off the reservation by violating the "contract". Hence my claims of Breach of contract which brought me to this site.

Well, now after a few years of hard work (talking folks into running for the board, getting others to open their eyes etc) we have kicked the "junta" off the board and replaced them with more stable, fair minded people. Before you go there, yes I ran for the board multiple times on my campaign of pointing out the corruption that I saw. This made me fall on my sword as i realized I would not get elected. Sometimes that happens. But I did work with and still do consult with the new board members. I am frequently sought out for my view on things.

MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


07/24/2013 1:46 PM  
Fred,

Guys like that actually scare me.

I get the impression that he is so unstable, that I could see him going postal and shooting up the place or something.

I too saw his rant on fines and thought wow, what an asshole!

The real crime is that guys like him are often elevated to an art form in these dystopian crazy places!

For that alone we need a body of law, with strict enforcement of the law.

Imagine coming 'home' to a community run by someone like that!

JonD1


Posts:0


07/24/2013 4:40 PM  
Posted By FredO on 07/24/2013 1:37 PM
Posted By MikeR15 on 07/24/2013 12:31 PM
Give it a rest already you vile little man!




Mike, see, he can't. he is addicted to being a troll. He spends so much time on this site and responding to nearly every thread that there just is not enough time in the day for him to be a 25 year running president of his 130+ unit HOA, or to hold down a job.

Sorry Little Johnny, I have to get back to work at my real job to make enough money to pay the federal Social Security Taxes that currently fund your life.
It is obvious to many of us that you suffer from severe mental deficits and are in need of this disability income.
It is also very obvious that with your attitude that you could never hold on to a real job let alone get one. So, you are most likely getting welfare checks too.

For all we know little johnny, you are living on the couch in your mother's basement playing internet tough guy on this site.

You're just a bully and the more you post the more the others on this site see it.
You lob personal attacks at everyone who has a dissenting opinion or a different view than you hold.

You constantly show how you hold HOA members in contempt. I would have to say that your time (if true) as board president has turned you into a world class asshole and cynic.

In your post about fining, the three examples you gave, what were the rules that these folks violated that results in those fines?
You have rules about playing in the parking area? Seriously?
You have rules about driving on the lawn? it happens so much there that you have a specific fine for it as well?

In my HOA, if you cause damage to the common area's we go after you to pay for the cost to bring it back to pre-damage condition. We don't fine for it because it happens so infrequently there is no need for a fine.

You fined the guy because he broke his own unit's window and made some noise. Gee, first offense is usually a warning letter. You said it yourself, the cops did nothing except issue a warning. So, you as president have the power to fine. Is this so you can teach them all a lesson?

Sounds like your HOA is not very friendly at all. Why would anyone want to live there?

WOW! After reading that post of yours, it is no wonder that HOA's have the bad rep that they have.

A little heavy handed don't you think? I'll bet you in your 25 years on the board had a huge hand in developing these rules and fines.
Sounds like you had a definite agenda for being on the board. And therein lies one of the big problems with HOA Boards. It is people who after too long on the board have lost sight of the original intent of the overall property and then they set out to mold and evolve the HOA into something that "they" want, not the rest of the membership.

We had that happen at my current HOA. The ruling "junta" started to mandate things that were contrary to the written documents. That and the very selective enforcement of the CC&R's. They went off the reservation by violating the "contract". Hence my claims of Breach of contract which brought me to this site.

Well, now after a few years of hard work (talking folks into running for the board, getting others to open their eyes etc) we have kicked the "junta" off the board and replaced them with more stable, fair minded people. Before you go there, yes I ran for the board multiple times on my campaign of pointing out the corruption that I saw. This made me fall on my sword as i realized I would not get elected. Sometimes that happens. But I did work with and still do consult with the new board members. I am frequently sought out for my view on things.






Freddy guess you are making it all up again. Yes you seem to know litle about the Social Security system too.

Yes Freddy your version it right. Now you can get a room with Mike your new BroMance and compare your life's accomplishments.

As to explaing to you about what I tried to explain about the property where I live why bother. You are to limited to grasp even simple concepts.

Playing the role of Mike's lap dog is my guess quite an accomplishment in your life.

And just so you know cleaning the rest rooms in a court house doesn't make you a criminal law expert.

Just like your pal Mike who bought a $250 on-line law degree.

Both worth about the same....

You do make a nice couple as you seem to be at equal levels in many ways.

I think you meant you ARE a character rather than you had character

My opinion putz would sum you up rather well....



FredO
(California)

Posts:198


07/24/2013 4:44 PM  
Mike,

Yep! I can imagine it. I am sure there is no rule against those things. Just make up fines as he goes. There is nothing the law can do, but wannabe cop and mayor little-johnny will make his own fines to make those mean people pay. Jeesh, it is amazing he is only the lord and master of 130 unit HOA. An idiot of that magnitude should be in charge of thousands of units in an HOA. can you imagine, he'd blow a gasket in the first few minutes.. (ROFLMAO) We had a guy who was pretty much like that. He was a bully and was the head of the junta on the board. Since they had the majority of votes on the board, they kept him as the President for about 6 years.

In the end, we started recording the board meetings. He said stuff that was going to get him and the HOA sued. He had the backing of the HOA attorney up to that point. Then the HOA attorney had a sudden change of heart (turns out one of our members is also an attorney and had a little talk with the HOA attorney.)

Short story, the HOA attorney advised the neighborhood bully to NOT run for re-election. Now we have a totally new board and the main thing on the agenda this year is to get a new attorney and MC. All our contracts have to be re-bid each year, with the multiple offers. All according to our by-laws and other governing documents. However, the MC and HOA Attorney have been awarded no bid contracts and renewals for over ten years...

New board thinks that isn't fair and no one from the old board is talking or explaining why - It's obvious they have something to hide there so the new board says they're gone. It's supposed to be transparent and that transparency has been lacking for a long time.

There just does not seem to be any sort of check and balances within the HOA boards. That is the root of the problem. There are no criminal laws to deter bad behavior on the part of a board. They hide behind the D&O insurance like that is a license to break from following our own governing documents. Then they tell us not to sue.... that is tantamount to not only tolerating but accepting the bad behavior.

That logic is wrong. And as long as there are no serious consequences then take whatever legal course of action you deem correct.

FredO
(California)

Posts:198


07/24/2013 4:53 PM  
Posted By JonD1 on 07/24/2013 4:40 PM
Posted By FredO on 07/24/2013 1:37 PM


Freddy guess you are making it all up again. Yes you seem to know litle about the Social Security system too.

Yes Freddy your version it right. Now you can get a room with Mike your new BroMance and compare your life's accomplishments.

As to explaing to you about what I tried to explain about the property where I live why bother. You are to limited to grasp even simple concepts.

Playing the role of Mike's lap dog is my guess quite an accomplishment in your life.

And just so you know cleaning the rest rooms in a court house doesn't make you a criminal law expert.

Just like your pal Mike who bought a $250 on-line law degree.

Both worth about the same....

You do make a nice couple as you seem to be at equal levels in many ways.

I think you meant you ARE a character rather than you had character

My opinion putz would sum you up rather well....






Actually little-johnny-boy, I grasp the facts quite nicely. All one has to know is that you are a troll, and a bully who has a huge Napoleon complex. You have significant mental deficits and and spend all day/night playing internet tough guy on a tiny little web forum. What more need one grasp than that.

Most people hate bullies and you are a bully!

I tire of dealing with an insignificant worm like yourself. Be Gone!


TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/24/2013 4:58 PM  
Posted By JonD1 on 07/24/2013 11:23 AM

"A forum for Community Association Boards & Other Volunteers to discuss topics concerning their association duties"

Now to me that seems fairly clear, English, no real BIG words that might require a dictionary to understand for most.

Community Association Boards = HOA Board members
Association Duties = HOA Board member's Duties




To me, I also focus in on where it says other volunteers.
Volunteer duties may include not only Board duties but various committees.

Sometimes, those who volunteer are not allowed to serve (which can be for various reasons).
I was blocked and not allowed to serve until I could gather enough support. Perhaps this is why I focus in more on the words "other volunteers" rather than simply the Board.

Therefore, I'm far more open to hearing from those individuals who were/are willing to volunteer to resolve the issues than those who simply complain and refuse to participate in the process. Perhaps because I was taught to not only point out a problem but bring a possible solution and then volunteer to assist in implement that solution or any other solution that resolves that problem.




MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


07/24/2013 6:10 PM  
Tim,

I think you posted on the wrong thead.

This one is about suing the HOA.

One sues the HOA when the HOA rips you off/violates the law.

Instead of being able to call law enforcement, one must go to the civil courts to deal with the problem.

The HOA attorney is just giddy at this assinine state of affairs, and eggs on the unqualified 'volunteers'

to all sorts of stupidity with this result as the goal.

Now it is your turn....

Instead of acknowledging this immense problem, you will talk about some obtuse thing or other...

like volunteering in the community, planting pansies or something...and that will make everything better.







OutC
(Missouri)

Posts:21


07/24/2013 6:16 PM  
“THE AMOUNT OF SUCH ASSESSMENT SHALL BE FIXED BY THE ASSOCIATION FROM YEAR TO YEAR BUT SHALL NOT EXCEED THE PROPORTION OF ONE MILL PER ANNUM FOR EACH SQUARE FOOT OF ALL OF THE ASSESSABLE LAND AS ABOVE PROVIDED.” [STREETS, PARKS, ENTRANCES, AND COMMON GROUNDS EXCLUDED]
“...DOCUMENT DULY EXECUTED...THE ASSOCIATION MAY BE GIVEN SUCH ADDITIONAL POWERS AS MAY BE DESIRED BY SAID MEMBERS, OR TO OTHERWISE AMEND THIS INSTRUMENT, PROVIDED, HOWEVER, THAT NO RIGHT TO CHANGE THE PROPORTION OF THE ASSESSMENT RATE MAY BE GIVEN.”

Tim, Thank you for issuing a voice of reason. This thread has become so bloated and creepy that I have all but stopped posting, although I have gleaned some small nuggets I hadn't known existed. As Fred has quantified: I asked my question, I gave necessary details, and I returned with the court’s decision and a slightly more detailed explanation.

I have found that no matter the question I try to address, just like Alice, (and my HOA) there is always more tunneling (responding) which must be done to satisfy those lurking “just a little further” inside the rabbit hole. Hopefully the above requested verbiage (written by one of this metropolis’ most brilliant pre-WWII business minds) will satisfy those who have told me I could not possibly win my case.

To these here who are living in million-dollar condos or shared communities, I now begin to understand some of the confusion. It must be quite impossible to understand the "little person" who will toil a decade or more to earn what his HOA budgets in just one year (Jon’s budget of $400K for 130 members=$3100/yr per person). So, as I suspected when I was being accused of suing for the max $5K, annual DUES alone don’t achieve that level unless the homes are spectacularly splendiferous. That annual figure approximates half the dollar amount of the average MORTGAGE payment ($6200/12=$516/mo) of our modest 600-home Midwestern subdivision which broke ground in 1923; produced a deed of restrictions in 1934, and introduced an HOA charter in 1939. It was still unincorporated and unannexed by the nearest big city through 1958. Of course, those who had already purchased lots and/or built homes prior to the 1934 and 1939 dates signed off that they accepted the conditions of both those documents.

Prior to the 1939 charter’s “Duties”, there had been no “security blanket” for the homebuyers for the following items to be provided which would create an enjoyable Community atmosphere: house-to-house postal delivery, street signage, police and fire protection, upkeep of any vacant lots not yet sold, planting and care of street trees, and maintenance of streets including snow clearance, trash removal, laying sewer lines (not laterals), and enforcement of the prior building restriction deed. The dues were tied to the square footage of each property (see above), varying from <6,000 sq ft to >20,000 sq ft. Do the math: at a mill per annum per square foot, knock off three zeros to come up with the annual cost of HOA membership: $6 to $20 each property holder.

The development’s ownership, which, having been hit by and survived the Great Depression, passed through the hands of three developers by 1939. The far-sighted last owner provided a stunning non-amendable dues cap for the Association as a protection to his residents, so that when the City would annex--as surely he knew it would--they would be protected from outrageous dues increases: Services that the City would provide through taxation, that homeowners had been paying for as an HOA.

Somewhere along the way, and after the association had officially incorporated and all lots had been sold, Board members lost their way and began adding services here and there. Years passed, and with them the instructive document outlining the dues restrictions and dues cap, forgotten. Or buried. My goal, in taking the HOA to court was to simply get it to recognize--then follow--the document. And of course it is amendable. Everything in it. Except the rate of assessment.

As difficult to understand with today’s CIDs, PUDs, et.al., it is such a simple concept!

Hopefully, my having won this case as it applies to my own property, will wake up the Board. The 1939 HOA’s requirements having been met, this current Board has 4 options: reduce the fees to the mill per annum and function on $6,000/yr*; work to get enough Community votes to dissolve the document and start a voluntary HOA; force the Court to do it for them under Missouri state law; or keep doing business as usual and hope no one notices. Or protests.

I hope all here can see that this historical account far exceeds “need to know” that I posed in my initial question about contract law. I also hope that this satisfies the curious who are now free to continue their insults to another thread.

*It seems counterproductive, given today's economy, to collect this small amount which will produce just enough income to pay a secretary to file annual tax and Secretary of State forms, and to purchase stamps and stationery to mail out notices so that we can send in our dues so that we can pay the secretary to mail out notices....see the absurdity of that? It would be perfectly legal and would allow our “lifer” Board members to still hang on to their power trip.
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


07/24/2013 6:48 PM  
yes OUT, your lifer board 'memory holed' the governing documents, to satisfy their power trip.

Right out of a George Orwell novel.

You caught them out, and had to take them to court to honor the documents, they would have never done so otherwise. (and

still might not)

This is routine conduct of these organizations across the country, and why I am here on this thread as well.

My HOA board did the same thing to a contract my wife and I had with them, and in order to make this game of "lets pretend

our contract doesn't exist" go away...I too had to go to court.

It is a sorry state of affairs when we have to rise to this level of effort and expense, simply to make some obdurate HOA

honor the law.

And it is happening every day in HOA land.

As far as the nasty attacks, that is also SOP in HOA land.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/24/2013 6:58 PM  
Out,

Thank you for the language. Part of my problem in initially understanding the issue was the terminology used; "ONE MILL PER ANNUM FOR EACH SQUARE FOOT"

Since I wasn't knowledgeable of the Latin term per mil, I didn't have a full understanding until I saw the whole text. I learned something today

Tim

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/24/2013 7:58 PM  
Mike,

You posted:

Posted By MikeR15 on 07/24/2013 6:10 PM

One sues the HOA when the HOA rips you off/violates the law.

Instead of being able to call law enforcement, one must go to the civil courts to deal with the problem.




True statements.
The member must go through the courts when civil laws are broken and contact law enforcement when criminal laws are broken.

This is the way the governments have set it up. The same governments that you want to have more say and regulation in homeowner/condominium associations. Therefore, it would be logical to expect that you support this type of enforcement. Otherwise, one would expect that you would be lobbying your State legislature for changes to the laws.

Posted By MikeR15 on 07/24/2013 6:10 PM

The HOA attorney is just giddy at this assinine state of affairs, and eggs on the unqualified 'volunteers'




Unfortunately, this is also a true statement for some individual attorneys. In my opinion, it would be those individuals who are more interested in making a buck than seeking justice. However, it would be an incorrect statement to say that all attorneys are this way. Similar to it being an incorrect statement to call all Congressmen and Senators crooks. This may be your belief and there certainly are some who are crooks. But that won't make the statement that all are crooks correct.

If I recall correctly, one of your earlier threads even mentioned that one of your Directors supported your position about a vote count. I would expect (well hope) that you don't paint that individual with the same brush you appear to use for all Directors that just because that individual was outvoted.


Posted By MikeR15 on 07/24/2013 6:10 PM

the unqualified 'volunteers'




This statement, in my opinion, deserves some discussion. Perhaps it even deserves it's own topic, but I'll start it in this thread.

Mike, what would you consider to be requirements to make an individual qualified to serve as a Director?

Should there be "professional" or "certification" of Directors and if so, should the membership pay for this certification?

Like I said, perhaps it deserves it's own topic.



Posted By MikeR15 on 07/24/2013 6:10 PM

Now it is your turn....

Instead of acknowledging this immense problem, you will talk about some obtuse thing or other...




It appears you are incorrect. I am realistic and have acknowledge that the comments you made which I commented on in this post were true.

To say that these same problems exist in all Associations would, I believe, be an incorrect statement. However, to deny that they don't exist in some Associations would also be incorrect. Like I said, I try to be realistic.

You and I just differ on what may be the best way to resolve the issues. To say that everything can be resolved if individuals would participate in the process would be an incorrect statement. However, as I've pointed out, if those that don't currently participate did participate, they would (based on my experiences) likely have the voting majority and be able to change many things. Not all, but many. Some things would likely still require a third party (the courts) to intervene.


Posted By MikeR15 on 07/24/2013 6:10 PM

you will talk about some obtuse thing or other...




I've noticed that you love to use the word obtuse when referring to my responses to you. However, as I pointed out on other threads, in the context you are using that word, per merriam-webster's definition, indicates that the responses were "difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expression."

If you can point out specifically what part of my response was difficult for you to understand (not where we differ in opinions but actually difficult to understand) I would be happy to try and rephrase the response so it may be easier for you to comprehend.


Tim




TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/24/2013 8:44 PM  
Posted By TimB4 on 07/24/2013 7:58 PM

Posted By MikeR15 on 07/24/2013 6:10 PM

the unqualified 'volunteers'


This statement, in my opinion, deserves some discussion. Perhaps it even deserves it's own topic, but I'll start it in this thread.
Mike, what would you consider to be requirements to make an individual qualified to serve as a Director?




I actually did start a new topic for this discussion.

See "making unqualified volunteers qualified" by clicking on the following link:
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/158672/view/topic/Default.aspx
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/24/2013 8:53 PM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 07/24/2013 6:48 PM
yes OUT, your lifer board 'memory holed' the governing documents, to satisfy their power trip.




That may be true. Or they were simply misinformed by the Association attorney and acted on this misinformation.

Where some see intentional corruption I sometimes see potential lack of knowledge/understanding. The old is the glass half full or half empty look on the world around us.
JonD1


Posts:0


07/24/2013 10:19 PM  
"Hopefully, my having won this case as it applies to my own property, will wake up the Board. The 1939 HOA’s requirements having been met, this current Board has 4 options: reduce the fees to the mill per annum and function on $6,000/yr*; work to get enough Community votes to dissolve the document and start a voluntary HOA; force the Court to do it for them under Missouri state law; or keep doing business as usual and hope no one notices. Or protests."

So OUT I have to ask since you were the one who brought this all to a head. Of the 4 options you laid out in YOUR perfect world which way do you now go????

1) as you suggest with a few hundred homes $6,000 per year my guess the HOA would cease to function. But your property is set up and sold as an HOA community legally. Do you just pretend it does not exist any longer?
And how do you think the banks might feel when asked to loan money to buy into your community which would be in some form of property "limbo".

2) do you think you would EVER muster enough votes to dissolve the present form of HOA you have and THEN succesfully put together a voluntary HOA? And until such time how does the property function? To do so would cost IMO quite a bit. Just how or where would that money come from? And do you think a voluntary HOA would be more effective? How might you raise funds? And just what do you think all this turmoil might do to YOUR property values?

3)Force the court to do what? Operate on $6,000 per year? Transform into a voluntary HOA? And just wondering who would be covering those costs and how? If the courts become involved they might appoint a reciever who now oversees the property opertions and in many cases guess who covers their cost? The property. Do you understand just how slow the courts move? And just what do you think this process might do to your property values? You know when the word gets out that the HOA is under court control. I have a guess.

4)Now doing business as usual that's not going to happen because you won't let this be. And if not you might expect more claims to be either defended or paid out. And again where does that money come from? Out of one pocket and into the other pocket. And what do you think that might do to YOUR property values?

So please pick one and point out for me the positives you see coming down the road for your community. I'm missing them.....

FredO
(California)

Posts:198


07/24/2013 10:56 PM  
Posted By JonD1 on 07/24/2013 10:19 PM
"Hopefully, my having won this case as it applies to my own property, will wake up the Board. The 1939 HOA’s requirements having been met, this current Board has 4 options: reduce the fees to the mill per annum and function on $6,000/yr*; work to get enough Community votes to dissolve the document and start a voluntary HOA; force the Court to do it for them under Missouri state law; or keep doing business as usual and hope no one notices. Or protests."

So OUT I have to ask since you were the one who brought this all to a head. Of the 4 options you laid out in YOUR perfect world which way do you now go????

1) as you suggest with a few hundred homes $6,000 per year my guess the HOA would cease to function. But your property is set up and sold as an HOA community legally. Do you just pretend it does not exist any longer?
And how do you think the banks might feel when asked to loan money to buy into your community which would be in some form of property "limbo".

2) do you think you would EVER muster enough votes to dissolve the present form of HOA you have and THEN succesfully put together a voluntary HOA? And until such time how does the property function? To do so would cost IMO quite a bit. Just how or where would that money come from? And do you think a voluntary HOA would be more effective? How might you raise funds? And just what do you think all this turmoil might do to YOUR property values?

3)Force the court to do what? Operate on $6,000 per year? Transform into a voluntary HOA? And just wondering who would be covering those costs and how? If the courts become involved they might appoint a reciever who now oversees the property opertions and in many cases guess who covers their cost? The property. Do you understand just how slow the courts move? And just what do you think this process might do to your property values? You know when the word gets out that the HOA is under court control. I have a guess.

4)Now doing business as usual that's not going to happen because you won't let this be. And if not you might expect more claims to be either defended or paid out. And again where does that money come from? Out of one pocket and into the other pocket. And what do you think that might do to YOUR property values?

So please pick one and point out for me the positives you see coming down the road for your community. I'm missing them.....




OUT, Don't pander to this blow hard. As he says he is still missing it....

For starters, what is the point of the HOA are far as running the community? As Out had posted, the city picked up doing many services that had been provided by the HOA. Pretty straight forward in that the HOA no longer has a purpose. Remember, an HOA is set up by the developers mainly as a sales tool.

The property has been fully developed out for what, 70 plus years now? With the property developed and the city assuming the services previously done by the HOA what is the point of the HOA? To protect and preserve property values? How do they do that now? What special things are they doing that really increases or protects property values?

Yes it will be interesting to see how this pans out.

However, it sounds like the governing documents give the HOA membership the option of dissolving if the property was annexed into city limits or something. Sounds like that was the basis for the logic of the charter document limiting the dues. That way, it would not make business sense to continue the HOA if the property was brought into the city for services etc.

Sounds like the originators of the document intended for this option to happen (dissolve the HOA). I doubt this outcome would have any negative impact on property values.

So, if enough of the residents don't want to end the HOA, they would have to try to convince the rest that keeping an HOA and going through the cost of changing the documents so that they can pay more in dues is a good thing. Do you really think that would fly in this economy? Yeah pay more and get less. Unless you can put a definite price on the increase in property value each home gets from being in the HOA versus the ROI on paying dues for however long the residents might plan to live there.... I think it would be a tough sell in this economy.

Dissolve the HOA in this case IMO.
JonD1


Posts:0


07/24/2013 11:15 PM  
Posted By FredO on 07/24/2013 10:56 PM
Posted By JonD1 on 07/24/2013 10:19 PM
"Hopefully, my having won this case as it applies to my own property, will wake up the Board. The 1939 HOA’s requirements having been met, this current Board has 4 options: reduce the fees to the mill per annum and function on $6,000/yr*; work to get enough Community votes to dissolve the document and start a voluntary HOA; force the Court to do it for them under Missouri state law; or keep doing business as usual and hope no one notices. Or protests."

So OUT I have to ask since you were the one who brought this all to a head. Of the 4 options you laid out in YOUR perfect world which way do you now go????

1) as you suggest with a few hundred homes $6,000 per year my guess the HOA would cease to function. But your property is set up and sold as an HOA community legally. Do you just pretend it does not exist any longer?
And how do you think the banks might feel when asked to loan money to buy into your community which would be in some form of property "limbo".

2) do you think you would EVER muster enough votes to dissolve the present form of HOA you have and THEN succesfully put together a voluntary HOA? And until such time how does the property function? To do so would cost IMO quite a bit. Just how or where would that money come from? And do you think a voluntary HOA would be more effective? How might you raise funds? And just what do you think all this turmoil might do to YOUR property values?

3)Force the court to do what? Operate on $6,000 per year? Transform into a voluntary HOA? And just wondering who would be covering those costs and how? If the courts become involved they might appoint a reciever who now oversees the property opertions and in many cases guess who covers their cost? The property. Do you understand just how slow the courts move? And just what do you think this process might do to your property values? You know when the word gets out that the HOA is under court control. I have a guess.

4)Now doing business as usual that's not going to happen because you won't let this be. And if not you might expect more claims to be either defended or paid out. And again where does that money come from? Out of one pocket and into the other pocket. And what do you think that might do to YOUR property values?

So please pick one and point out for me the positives you see coming down the road for your community. I'm missing them.....




OUT, Don't pander to this blow hard. As he says he is still missing it....

For starters, what is the point of the HOA are far as running the community? As Out had posted, the city picked up doing many services that had been provided by the HOA. Pretty straight forward in that the HOA no longer has a purpose. Remember, an HOA is set up by the developers mainly as a sales tool.

The property has been fully developed out for what, 70 plus years now? With the property developed and the city assuming the services previously done by the HOA what is the point of the HOA? To protect and preserve property values? How do they do that now? What special things are they doing that really increases or protects property values?

Yes it will be interesting to see how this pans out.

However, it sounds like the governing documents give the HOA membership the option of dissolving if the property was annexed into city limits or something. Sounds like that was the basis for the logic of the charter document limiting the dues. That way, it would not make business sense to continue the HOA if the property was brought into the city for services etc.

Sounds like the originators of the document intended for this option to happen (dissolve the HOA). I doubt this outcome would have any negative impact on property values.

So, if enough of the residents don't want to end the HOA, they would have to try to convince the rest that keeping an HOA and going through the cost of changing the documents so that they can pay more in dues is a good thing. Do you really think that would fly in this economy? Yeah pay more and get less. Unless you can put a definite price on the increase in property value each home gets from being in the HOA versus the ROI on paying dues for however long the residents might plan to live there.... I think it would be a tough sell in this economy.

Dissolve the HOA in this case IMO.




I would have to believe Freddy OUT does not require you speak for her.

And since you have no first hand knowledge of OUT's property what you think or YOUR opinion matters little.

Now I know you have control issues and like to see yourself as the hub of the wheel but I posed the question to OUT as my desire to exchange with you has dwindled do to my discovery that you are a small minded fool.

So IF and when someone asks a question of you by all means respond. But when someone is speaking to someone else and NOT you the polite thing to do would be to keep your mouth closed. Now as you claim to be overflowing with character and integrity (a condition I seriously doubt) at the least pretend you undertand simple common courtesy. Or allow the loud mouth in you o prove what a limited human being you really are.

Did you look up PUTZ yet? Did you see your picture????
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:17766


07/24/2013 11:19 PM  
Posted By FredO on 07/24/2013 10:56 PM

So, if enough of the residents don't want to end the HOA, they would have to try to convince the rest that keeping an HOA and going through the cost of changing the documents so that they can pay more in dues is a good thing.




Actually that will depend on the wording of the governing documents.

If it takes x% of the membership to adopt a resolution to dissolve and the number of residents that don't want to dissolve the Association prevents x% from being reached, they simply need to adopt Mike's attitude and not participate.

Of course, if it takes x% of the votes cast, than not participating would allow the Association to be dissolved.

As I said, it depends on the language used.
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


07/25/2013 3:46 AM  
If the city has taken over providing the services, why would you want to establish something that would require you to pay

forever...

Seems like a no brainer to me....kill the HOA!
SharonH9


Posts:0


07/25/2013 9:56 AM  
Posted By JonD1 on 07/24/2013 10:19 PM
And what do you think that might do to YOUR property values?


So please pick one and point out for me the positives you see coming down the road for your community. I'm missing them.....





Property values. I am not convinced that dissolving the HOA will have any affect on the property values in Out's neighborhood. I recently spent 2 days in Kansas looking at homes in the metropolitan Kansas City area within the $100,000 to $130,000 range. I am making an assumption that Out's home is in a similar neighborhood although perhaps a little bit older. IMO an HOA would serve no purpose in these neighborhoods.

Out lives in the Midwest. I live in the Midwest. We live in communities very, very different than yours. Open up your mind to the possibility that many neighborhoods can function quite well without an HOA. I have to live in one because the HOA manages the sanitary sewer system. Without that common element, I see no purpose in keeping the HOA. The HOA has no affect on the value of my property.

I understand that you live in a different world than Out and I do. I am aware that your life in New York is very different than my life in Iowa. I can appreciate that you have a different perspective than me or Out for that matter. Please keep that in mind when you post your responses.

Jon you come across as a very angry person with a huge ego. People are not always going to agree with you that post on this site. You don't have to respond with so much sarcasm and intolerance. It serves no purpose. I have posted things on this site that I later regretted having said. I like to think of myself as a reasonable and tolerant person but sometimes what you post puts people on the defensive and they say things that they normally would not say.

MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


07/25/2013 10:50 AM  
Sharon,

I grew up in New York, in a suburb of NYC. We grew up in a nice middle class community neighborhood. We had a broad range of

folks living there from auto garage workers,to a bunch of engineers from NASA that built the LEM (yes I am dating myself).

My folks bought their home for $17K in the early 60's and just recently sold the place for $300K.

NO HOA WAS involved!

This whole HOA thing about doing anything for property values ANYWHERE in the country is a bunch of hooehy....

(that was for you out in the mid-west)
SharonH9


Posts:0


07/25/2013 11:14 AM  
Posted By MikeR15 on 07/25/2013 10:50 AM
Sharon,

I grew up in New York, in a suburb of NYC. We grew up in a nice middle class community neighborhood. We had a broad range of

folks living there from auto garage workers,to a bunch of engineers from NASA that built the LEM (yes I am dating myself).

My folks bought their home for $17K in the early 60's and just recently sold the place for $300K.

NO HOA WAS involved!

This whole HOA thing about doing anything for property values ANYWHERE in the country is a bunch of hooehy....

(that was for you out in the mid-west)




Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Neighborhoods can function quite nicely without an HOA but with that being said I believe Jon lives in a condo where there are common elements to maintain. Perhaps his condo has amenities such as a fitness room, community room, security, etc., etc. There has to be some entity to manage those elements. I do not know what is the culture in New York. I mean if it is widely accepted that HOA's increase one's property values. Here in the Midwest, HOA's are not known to have that much of an affect on property values. Not in my socio economic group anyway.
MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


07/25/2013 11:35 AM  
Yes Condos are another kettle of fish entirely.

In MA the courts have defined them as a "hybrid form of real estate ownership"

You own a unit, but not the entrances and exits to the building, the roof over your head or the foundation or any of the infrastructure.

And you are subject to pay your share of the maintence costs.

Reasonable.

I live in a single family home subdivision, and none of that is true.

We have some common areas that we are responsible for which is also reasonable.

What is not reasonable in the monster that the HOA has become.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:11507


07/25/2013 12:47 PM  
Sharon

The issues are the same all over the country. Be it private standalone homes (such as my HOA is) or multi unit buildings.

The more shared amenities (pools, tennis courts, clubhouse, etc.) there are, the more the need for an association to control and oversee. The more shared elements (lobbies, halls, elevators, roofs, exercise rooms, parking garage, etc.) there are, the more the need for an association to control and oversee.

This is not even touching on trickier/more costly things like private roads, gated entrances, security service, private water supply, private septic or sewage processing, etc. It can get very complicated and costly.

The more complicated "the development" becomes, the less many will understand exactly what they have on their hands. The more complicated the issues and scope are, the more differing opinions you will get on every issue. Many opinions will be from the types that do not know the difference between their pie hole and a hole in the ground but as an owner, they should be heard.

I am in my 5th HOA via OH, IL, MA, SC. I learned as I went. In my last purchase, I specifically looked for things so it would be simpler and less expensive to operate. Things like no amenities, public streets, public water and sewage, private home, landscaping included, external home maintenance included, manageable size (113), etc.

Al associations are far from identical in the good, the bad, and the ugly.




SharonH9


Posts:0


07/25/2013 1:20 PM  
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/25/2013 12:47 PM
Sharon

The issues are the same all over the country. Be it private standalone homes (such as my HOA is) or multi unit buildings.

The more shared amenities (pools, tennis courts, clubhouse, etc.) there are, the more the need for an association to control and oversee. The more shared elements (lobbies, halls, elevators, roofs, exercise rooms, parking garage, etc.) there are, the more the need for an association to control and oversee.

This is not even touching on trickier/more costly things like private roads, gated entrances, security service, private water supply, private septic or sewage processing, etc. It can get very complicated and costly.

The more complicated "the development" becomes, the less many will understand exactly what they have on their hands. The more complicated the issues and scope are, the more differing opinions you will get on every issue. Many opinions will be from the types that do not know the difference between their pie hole and a hole in the ground but as an owner, they should be heard.

I am in my 5th HOA via OH, IL, MA, SC. I learned as I went. In my last purchase, I specifically looked for things so it would be simpler and less expensive to operate. Things like no amenities, public streets, public water and sewage, private home, landscaping included, external home maintenance included, manageable size (113), etc.

Al associations are far from identical in the good, the bad, and the ugly.







I still do not see the purpose in keeping the HOA when no common elements exist and the HOA has no impact on the property values. And I do believe it is a geographical cultural norm in certain parts of the country. And the Midwest is not a geographical area where HOA's are a common part of home ownership. So I have a different perspective than folks who live in large metropolitan areas or in states like California or Florida where HOA's are so common place.

MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


07/25/2013 1:27 PM  
You are absolutely right!

If you can avoid an HOA and the permenant fees, that go out to infinity...by all means do so.

It is also a distinct possiblity that these things will become so unpopular that no one will want to buy into them.

YOu will be living in a home highly sought after because it is NOT in an HOA scheme..


Just Google "no hoa homes for sale"

You will get 10's of thousands of results of people selling their property with that line, or people looking to buy ONLY non

HOA homes.
JonD1


Posts:0


07/25/2013 2:10 PM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 07/25/2013 9:56 AM
Posted By JonD1 on 07/24/2013 10:19 PM
And what do you think that might do to YOUR property values?


So please pick one and point out for me the positives you see coming down the road for your community. I'm missing them.....





Property values. I am not convinced that dissolving the HOA will have any affect on the property values in Out's neighborhood. I recently spent 2 days in Kansas looking at homes in the metropolitan Kansas City area within the $100,000 to $130,000 range. I am making an assumption that Out's home is in a similar neighborhood although perhaps a little bit older. IMO an HOA would serve no purpose in these neighborhoods.

Out lives in the Midwest. I live in the Midwest. We live in communities very, very different than yours. Open up your mind to the possibility that many neighborhoods can function quite well without an HOA. I have to live in one because the HOA manages the sanitary sewer system. Without that common element, I see no purpose in keeping the HOA. The HOA has no affect on the value of my property.

I understand that you live in a different world than Out and I do. I am aware that your life in New York is very different than my life in Iowa. I can appreciate that you have a different perspective than me or Out for that matter. Please keep that in mind when you post your responses.

Jon you come across as a very angry person with a huge ego. People are not always going to agree with you that post on this site. You don't have to respond with so much sarcasm and intolerance. It serves no purpose. I have posted things on this site that I later regretted having said. I like to think of myself as a reasonable and tolerant person but sometimes what you post puts people on the defensive and they say things that they normally would not say.





Sharon:

As you and I have been down this road before in reagrds to dissolving HOAs let me offer some food for thought.

I understand there is quite a difference in living in Iowa and living out on the Island in NY where Mike is from. I got that.

To make this simple, my concern is you, OUT nor even Mike the HOA expert have never gone through the process. You make it seem like all you do is check a box somewhere and BINGO the HOA is gone!

This would not be the case. Depending on the property's documents and state law more than likely this would be a time consuming expensive project. Now my first question would be where would the money come from to fund this effort? How would you get enough votes to approve this?

As to my question in regards to property values. Perhaps it was stated to simply. Let me explain whether in Iowa or NY real estate agents have a network of information about the properties they have to sell. When issues like dissolving the HOA arise, or the news a court now has assumed the role of directing this community in many cases sales and purchases slow or cease. Who would want to buy into a property where the ultimate ownership status would be undetermined? Not me!

And if your property can't sell or that of your neighbor no matter what the value of YOUR home is affected. In a bad way.

If the community you were looking into faced 599 owner lawsuit for the repayment of dues for the last 70+ years and you bothered to take the time to do the math would you be willing to assume that liability as a new owner? Well therein lies the problem.

So in ending this OUT has 600 homes deeded and legally titled as being in an HOA. And my guess would be MIKE, OUT and perhaps even yourself just might not understand the process of dissolving such an entity.

It would require much more than simply posting a sign at the front entrance to the property stating "WE DISSOLVED OUR HOA".

Perhaps you could sit down with your real estate agent or lawyer and run this by them. My guess the process would be nothing like that suggested by Mike. He has never been through the process nor does he have any concern for the cost to this property. His utter disreagrd for ALL HOAs prevents him from doing so.

And in his simple mind everything is simple.

Now let me explain my tone. I have dealt with folks like Mike for many years. Over time I have lost patience with his kind. Mike likes to come into a room or this site and rant and rave about how HE now knows all about HOAs because he has searched the internet. On one site he brags about his multiple suits he has filed against his HOA but NEVER remembers to explain no one has succeded to this point. On one site he brags about defending his neighbors and then later called them ignorant and tells us he wishes to have nothing to do with them. His lawyer drops his case. His own wife suggests he simply let this matter go. However Mike continues on. Telling anyone who will listen he has all the answers.
All you have to do is completly overhaul the entire current US legal system to accommdate Mike. And when the neighbor put up a fence 20' high is becomes a police matter then goes before a court and after 5 years you get it settled. Will that ever happen? Only in Mike's imagination.
Now some folks MIGHT be inclined to swallow Mike's version of life and his idea of perfection. After all many folks don't have the time or ability to actaully ask questions or research the new source of their beliefs. Well Mike says so so it has to be true! And you know where MIke got his information from??? Another yo-yo just like him one level down on the crazy train.

So when people like Mike burst into the scene some folks step back and allow MIKE to have the floor. Some people will sit back and engage Mike in the hopes he in fact has some useful ideas. And some people will sit back, ask some questions, put the pieces together and make a determination that Mike offers little in the way of real positive change.

See I would hate to see someone listen to a blow hard like Mike who suggests everyone sue their HOA when he never explains what this has done for HIM. $50,000+ down the drain. 10 years of battle and having accomplished nothing.

Not once has Mike explained that to those he now seeks to guide.

Sue sue sue..... dissolve the HOA...... slap down the HOA Boards.....take the homes of HOA Board members....... change the state laws..... remove the HOAs ability to fine....... gather a real group that supports your efforts..... require the police handle HOA issues on private property...... change the US legal system....... all the rants of a zealot who has lost their way.

And in the end in reality HE, MIKE, has done NONE of those things.

But if you and others wish to have the likes of Mike to lead you to the Promised Land the Crazy Train has plenty of seats cause right now its Mike, Fred, and ............ that's about it.

Oh and the guy who views Mike as "BraveHeart" he's just a little confused no mater what state you live in. He is sitting in the first car. Lets just see where that train ride takes them all.

My guess right where Mike is endlessly posting on internet sites preaching the world according to Mike.....



FredO
(California)

Posts:198


07/25/2013 9:38 PM  
Posted By SharonH9 on 07/25/2013 9:56 AM


I understand that you live in a different world than Out and I do. I am aware that your life in New York is very different than my life in Iowa. I can appreciate that you have a different perspective than me or Out for that matter. Please keep that in mind when you post your responses.

Jon you come across as a very angry person with a huge ego. People are not always going to agree with you that post on this site. You don't have to respond with so much sarcasm and intolerance. It serves no purpose. I have posted things on this site that I later regretted having said. I like to think of myself as a reasonable and tolerant person but sometimes what you post puts people on the defensive and they say things that they normally would not say.




Sharon,

Thank you, you said it and hit the nail right on the head.

I can appreciate that JonD1's HOA is completely different than yours, mine and many others on this forum. His frame of reference seems to be limited to the experiences he has had over the years in his HOA. Great, Good for him. However, what works there does not always work in every other HOA. About the only thing in common his HOA has with all other HOA's is the words Homeowners Association. The number of people on the Boards is different as is some of the roles and responsibilities. The issues are different in that some have common property or elements and what not. The size is different and the costs to run and maintain are different. Same with the age and maturity of the property.

Thank you for your comments.
OutC
(Missouri)

Posts:21


07/25/2013 9:40 PM  
A 20-ft high fence would violate City regulations. But perhaps there is no "city" where you live, Jon, only the HOA to which you so glowingly refer.

Yes, all deeds to our homes reference the HOA document, on file in the Courthouse along with those deeds. However, once it would be dissolved, the dissolution becomes a matter of public record--just as would any amendment that might change the document (there have been none). Each of the 600 deeds would not require updating, to become the "time consuming expensive project" you state. Since there would no longer be an HOA, nor any responsibility to its terms, the title to the first home sold thereafter, and all following will not mention a document that has been declared null. It is the duty of title companies to search these out.

Jon, maybe you've answered these in other threads, but since I'm coming in late, it will help me to understand why we seem to have such a variance of opinion. One of the first rules of engagement is for each to define his terminology, so in that spirit Jon, please tell me:

How many people are on your Board of directors?
How long is each term...rotating/overlapping?
What has been each current director's length of service?
Do you pay HOA dues, or are you excluded from such while "volunteering?
What is the range of costs of units in your HOA...assuming a condo, or if otherwise, please clarify?
Are you on a golf course, lake, or oceanside?
What, exactly, are the amenities that you pay so dearly for?
Was I pretty close when I determined your annual dues at $3100?
How many times have you been called into court by a resident's suit?
How many times has your Association sued a resident?
How many times did you retain an attorney?
How many times did you win the case...as plaintiff....as defendant?
Have you or any of your Board members ever been sued individually?
How many (or percentage) of residents attend the Community meetings?
Has your association ever been taken to court by the State for non-payment of taxes?
Has your association ever had 'Judicial Dissolution' applied to it by the Secretary of State office?
What are the terms of your CC&Rs regarding dues, percentage increases, and fines for non-payment?
What is done about filing liens? Might that fall into my questions about lawsuits?
Do you follow to the letter what your CC&Rs say about charging assessments and late fees?
Do you follow to the letter of those charges when filing a lien?
How many foreclosures has your HOA experienced in the last 10 years?
How do you determine what figure to provide the title company or federally backed loans when negotiating a bad debt?


Anyone else have questions they would like to ask Jon?
FredO
(California)

Posts:198


07/25/2013 10:29 PM  
Posted By JonD1 on 07/25/2013 2:10 PM
Posted By SharonH9 on 07/25/2013 9:56 AM


Sharon:

As you and I have been down this road before in reagrds to dissolving HOAs let me offer some food for thought.

I understand there is quite a difference in living in Iowa and living out on the Island in NY where Mike is from. I got that.

To make this simple, my concern is you, OUT nor even Mike the HOA expert have never gone through the process. You make it seem like all you do is check a box somewhere and BINGO the HOA is gone!

This would not be the case. Depending on the property's documents and state law more than likely this would be a time consuming expensive project. Now my first question would be where would the money come from to fund this effort? How would you get enough votes to approve this?

As to my question in regards to property values. Perhaps it was stated to simply. Let me explain whether in Iowa or NY real estate agents have a network of information about the properties they have to sell. When issues like dissolving the HOA arise, or the news a court now has assumed the role of directing this community in many cases sales and purchases slow or cease. Who would want to buy into a property where the ultimate ownership status would be undetermined? Not me!

And if your property can't sell or that of your neighbor no matter what the value of YOUR home is affected. In a bad way.

If the community you were looking into faced 599 owner lawsuit for the repayment of dues for the last 70+ years and you bothered to take the time to do the math would you be willing to assume that liability as a new owner? Well therein lies the problem.

So in ending this OUT has 600 homes deeded and legally titled as being in an HOA. And my guess would be MIKE, OUT and perhaps even yourself just might not understand the process of dissolving such an entity.

It would require much more than simply posting a sign at the front entrance to the property stating "WE DISSOLVED OUR HOA".

Perhaps you could sit down with your real estate agent or lawyer and run this by them. My guess the process would be nothing like that suggested by Mike. He has never been through the process nor does he have any concern for the cost to this property. His utter disreagrd for ALL HOAs prevents him from doing so.

And in his simple mind everything is simple.

Now let me explain my tone. I have dealt with folks like Mike for many years. Over time I have lost patience with his kind. Mike likes to come into a room or this site and rant and rave about how HE now knows all about HOAs because he has searched the internet. On one site he brags about his multiple suits he has filed against his HOA but NEVER remembers to explain no one has succeded to this point. On one site he brags about defending his neighbors and then later called them ignorant and tells us he wishes to have nothing to do with them. His lawyer drops his case. His own wife suggests he simply let this matter go. However Mike continues on. Telling anyone who will listen he has all the answers.
All you have to do is completly overhaul the entire current US legal system to accommdate Mike. And when the neighbor put up a fence 20' high is becomes a police matter then goes before a court and after 5 years you get it settled. Will that ever happen? Only in Mike's imagination.
Now some folks MIGHT be inclined to swallow Mike's version of life and his idea of perfection. After all many folks don't have the time or ability to actaully ask questions or research the new source of their beliefs. Well Mike says so so it has to be true! And you know where MIke got his information from??? Another yo-yo just like him one level down on the crazy train.

So when people like Mike burst into the scene some folks step back and allow MIKE to have the floor. Some people will sit back and engage Mike in the hopes he in fact has some useful ideas. And some people will sit back, ask some questions, put the pieces together and make a determination that Mike offers little in the way of real positive change.

See I would hate to see someone listen to a blow hard like Mike who suggests everyone sue their HOA when he never explains what this has done for HIM. $50,000+ down the drain. 10 years of battle and having accomplished nothing.

Not once has Mike explained that to those he now seeks to guide.

Sue sue sue..... dissolve the HOA...... slap down the HOA Boards.....take the homes of HOA Board members....... change the state laws..... remove the HOAs ability to fine....... gather a real group that supports your efforts..... require the police handle HOA issues on private property...... change the US legal system....... all the rants of a zealot who has lost their way.

And in the end in reality HE, MIKE, has done NONE of those things.

But if you and others wish to have the likes of Mike to lead you to the Promised Land the Crazy Train has plenty of seats cause right now its Mike, Fred, and ............ that's about it.

Oh and the guy who views Mike as "BraveHeart" he's just a little confused no mater what state you live in. He is sitting in the first car. Lets just see where that train ride takes them all.

My guess right where Mike is endlessly posting on internet sites preaching the world according to Mike.....




JonD1,

Nicely written but you missed one essential thing in your response. That is, what about when a board goes rogue? When they start deviating from the governing documents and start doing things like selective enforcements or playing favorites with their friends (issuing variance to buy votes)? Or claiming that since they are board members, the rules don't seem to apply to them? Or when they become bullies to try and control you. Yes, There are many merits to HOA's. But there is also a very dark side in that there is ample opportunity for people with egos, anger issues or just plain control freaks who have to ruin a good thing. Yes, some properties are stunningly beautiful. But the overlords that run some of these places put so much needless stress on the homeowners that there is no way to enjoy the largest investment most people will ever make.

We have over 150 households out of 220 that have yet to attend a single board meeting in the 12 years I have lived in my current HOA. When I ask these neighbors why, the answer is usually the same - they just want to be left alone to live in peace. They do not want to make waves or become the next target for outlandish behavior by certain board members.

I have no doubt that you feel you are doing the right thing in your HOA. But you are one of approximately 130 homeowners. Does everyone feel that way, that you are doing such a splendid job? If so, do you get re-elected by a full 130 votes or are there ever any votes against you? You may still win the election but there are those, I'm sure, who want to see some things changed.

I think we all agree, there many types of HOA's and many more types of people who want to run them. They think they know all. So might. But others, not on the board may know the same or more.

Some call the missing faces at meeting apathy, other might say that there might have been too much drama or pettiness and just want to be left alone. These folks comply with the rules and governing documents and just look the other way at petty violations by their neighbors. That is until the sh*t gets too thick, then something has to be done.

This gives plenty of opportunity and time for the less than stellar Board members to run rampant and make living in an HOA absolute hell for many people.

Again, what you say about the process to dissolve an HOA is true. It is a long and expensive prospect. But given the amount of crap a bad board can inflict on the members, sometimes you have to decide if having an HOA is worth it in the long run.

The neighborhood next to ours used to be an open type HOA. They had a clubhouse and pool. I understand that they dissolved their HOA 3 years before I moved in to my current HOA. We have a small pool and no clubhouse. Now that the neighboring HOA dissolved, the city took over their pool and clubhouse. This community pool and clubhouse is now where we hold our monthly open meetings.

The neighborhood has not lost property values because of the lack of the HOA. (That according to a friend who has lived there for 20 years and went through the dissolving process.) It cost each home about a years worth of dues. This was paid for by using the cash reserves to dissolve it since the city took over the costs of the only common properties/elements.

Not saying this is the way to go. But there are times when a member has no choice but to sue the HOA (as in Out's situation).

When these things happen, I think it would be beneficial for us to evaluate what the board did that caused the lawsuit to happen and then a discussion can be had as to what they could have done to avoid it. That would then be a valuable learning experience for the people who come to this forum.

Melissa is factually correct when she states that suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. It is just as factually correct for me to state that it is the Board members (and their legal advisor) who make the decision to go to court and cost that money all members must pay. Instead of killing the messenger (the suing homeowner) we also need to also blame the Boards that have let any situation escalate to the point of a lawsuit. In all those cases there are more people on the board making the decision than there or when a single homeowner has to sue.

It is a double edged sword. Just because this is a site for HOA Board members does not mean that the boards are right in every case (as in Out's situation).



MikeR15
(Massachusetts)

Posts:389


07/31/2013 4:41 AM  
I keep seeing the phrase "suing the HOA is like suing yourself".

This is not true.

This would be like your town saying the same thing when you sue it.

Folks sue the town all the time if they have been aggrieved by a variance or something.

There is even a law (here in MA) that entitles you to do exactly that if the

planning board ignores your objection.

The courts reverse the planning board all the time.

This is due process in action.

Suing your HOA is becoming more and more necessary due to the complete lack of oversight and consumer protections in HOAs.

What we really need to do is sue the board members individually, and make them personally liable when they ignore the law, the governing documents ect.

That would benefit homeowners tremendously.
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Page 4 of 4 << < 1234



Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement