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Subject: Yet another meeting...
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Author Messages
TerryB6
(Oklahoma)

Posts:38


11/27/2012 7:29 AM  
It appears that our current board as yet again failed to meet the notification requirements of the annual meeting to elect directors; this will be the third time. What would be the best course of action to move forward?
LauraR5
(Tennessee)

Posts:216


11/27/2012 7:36 AM  
Has anyone asked either the board members or the management company when the meeting is going to be or why it wasn't held? That is where I would start.

If they still balk at scheduling something, I'd read my governing docs to see what the other homeowners need to do to call a meeting and start working on it. And then at that meeting, decide what your next steps are.

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16704


11/27/2012 8:02 AM  
Terry,

Did they fail to meet the # of days in notification OR Did they fail to hold the meeting OR is this a continuation of your earlier thread about rescheduling the meeting?





TerryB6
(Oklahoma)

Posts:38


11/27/2012 6:47 PM  
They did make the appropriate "days notification" sort of...didn't follow either of the two specified methods of member notification listed in the bylaws, but stuffed fliers in doors and mailboxes. Can't decide if I should press this as a deal-breaker. The thought keeps going through my head that if they can't be trusted to do the simplest of things, can they truly be trusted in anything?
JM10
(California)

Posts:503


11/28/2012 3:14 AM  
Just what do you mean by "sort of"?

In the case of doors and mailboxes, I guess the real issue would be how many of the members/owners live off-site?

When we went to court, it was because they refused to notify us at all (even when we emailed/asked face to face). The second time, we decided we could not rent because they would not email us notification of the meetings (but they could email everyone else the newsletters).

It is not clear to me what your CC&R say about notification. In our case, state law did not require mail/email notification unless requested by the owner..
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16704


11/28/2012 5:20 AM  
Posted By TerryB6 on 11/27/2012 6:47 PM
The thought keeps going through my head that if they can't be trusted to do the simplest of things, can they truly be trusted in anything?




Sounds like someone is ready to toss their hat into the ring at the next election.
TerryB6
(Oklahoma)

Posts:38


11/28/2012 1:38 PM  
The notifications were made three days late, which is why I said "sort of". We had a quorum, but the meeting was called invalid by the VP because of failure to meet the notification requirement. Our bylaws state there are only two options for member notification of meetings; postage paid to address on file, or email/fax if permission is granted in writing by member. The BOD was informed of the proper notification requirements, and of the law regarding non-postal use of the mailboxes, which they publicly stated they will continue to ignore "to benefit the association and save some money".

I guess now notice has been given to them by the Postmaster, as another resident...who's not a member by the way...filed a formal complaint. The BOD President has accused me of this action by email, and plans to publicly point the finger at the next meeting. Here's the email traffice for your purview...

From the BOD President:
Thanks so much for contacting the Post Office. Realize that does not come out of my pocket, it comes out of the homeowners. I have every intention to show this to the residents at the meeting next week. If you had attended meetings, you would know that the homeowners voted to have us deliver newsletters and all notices in this way.

My response:
I appreciate you giving me all the credit, but unfortunately I did not contact the PO as you've referenced. And if you persist with your false accusation, my next communication will be through my attorney, whom now has a copy of this for future reference.
And as I mentioned previously, the meeting was deemed not to be valid at the beginning by your VP. So any business conducted, such as the aforementioned vote, is also not valid.


And yes, my hat's officially in the ring.
CarolR11


Posts:0


11/28/2012 2:34 PM  
Good for you, Terry! do your best to build a support group.
LauraR5
(Tennessee)

Posts:216


11/28/2012 2:42 PM  
Not sure about Oklahoma, but I know in Tennessee there are certain notices that have to go by postal mail. I don't know what all of them are yet, but our property manager mentioned it when we discussed trying to cut our postage costs. I know violation letters have to go by first-class mail (or higher if they escalate), notice of assessment increase, for sure. Not positive on meeting notices, but if it says in your CC&Rs it doesn't matter what the law is. Guess what I was saying (more for your jerky president) was that it's an expense that is expected, so not to try to put it back on homeowners.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9320


11/28/2012 2:44 PM  
Terry

I commend you for running for the BOD.

While not taking a side, I might caution you about one thing. Intent of rules versus the letter of the rules. I think you might need to loosen up some about the differences.








TerryB6
(Oklahoma)

Posts:38


11/28/2012 3:02 PM  
John, I couldn't agree more; as interpreting regulatory guidelines and regulations is what I do for a living on almost a daily basis. However, taking shortcuts on meeting notifications especially when close to 25% of members are not notified because they are absentee landlords I don't believe is an acceptable alternative.
JonD1


Posts:0


11/28/2012 3:30 PM  
So now the method of contact for meeting notification is the battleground.

Sounds just rather silly to me.

So if you have monthly meeting and then an annual and you now require every owner be mailed a notice in a year's time just what does that come to? $$$$ And IMO for some resident to now involve themselves with filing complaints to the Postal Service well my suggestion find something better to do with your time. Just a wanna be junior G-Man. Don't you think the Postal Inspectors might have some drug shipments to foil? Well on second thought this HOA notification issue is a federal matter!

And of course now the threats to contact my lawyer... Please. You would pay a lawyer to adress this nonsense? Wow.

There is the letter of the law versus the meaning of the law. Our documents require Western Union notification for some matters, we have decided to take the risk and use more modern methods. Whatever notices we can e-mail well that saves money. What notices we can, here we go, HAND DELIVER that saves money. Sometimes common sense dictates change in methods. And if you wrap your life around each letter of every word then IMO you are wasting my time.

MY method lighten up and address what is important in the way of managing your property.

My guess this HOA just might have more pressing issues. What type of job is the Board doing? How long have they served? How long has the OP lived on the property? Does the OP bother to attend meetings?

My opinion much to do about nothing.

Gotta go the postal inspectors are here......................



JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9320


11/28/2012 3:57 PM  
Posted By TerryB6 on 11/28/2012 3:02 PM
John, I couldn't agree more; as interpreting regulatory guidelines and regulations is what I do for a living on almost a daily basis. However, taking shortcuts on meeting notifications especially when close to 25% of members are not notified because they are absentee landlords I don't believe is an acceptable alternative.





I have always said do not trust a politician nor a bureaucrat to think past their nose.....where might you fit.......LOL

TerryB6
(Oklahoma)

Posts:38


11/28/2012 4:01 PM  
JD1, thank you for your comments. And no, I didn't make the complaint, and I have no desire to be any level of G-man. Your observations are interesting to say the least. Not sure why it matters, but I've been a resident here since the development was new, and I attend every meeting that I'm able to do so. and I've even volunteered where needed on numerous occasions.

I hope things improve for you, so maybe you can become less of an ass.
TerryB6
(Oklahoma)

Posts:38


11/28/2012 4:04 PM  
Posted By TerryB6 on 11/28/2012 4:01 PM
JD1, thank you for your comments. And no, I didn't make the complaint, and I have no desire to be any level of G-man. Your observations are interesting to say the least. Not sure why it matters, but I've been a resident here since the development was new, and I attend every meeting that I'm able to do so. and I've even volunteered where needed on numerous occasions.

I hope things improve for you, so maybe you can become less of an ass.




I'm neither. I just try to provide guidance in maintaining regulatory compliance to my employer.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:9320


11/28/2012 4:49 PM  
Terry

Early on you said: Our bylaws state there are only two options for member notification of meetings; postage paid to address on file, or email/fax if permission is granted in writing by member.

Now allow me to draw a hypothetical intent that might not meet the above letter.

Several owners go around and leave notices of the meeting in each front door. Others go around and put such a notice on the windshield of every car in the neighborhood. A bulletin board is erected at the entrance(s) with a big letter sign notifying all of the meeting. A group calls and either speaks to someone or leaves a message about the meeting. The community newsletter has a banner headline about such, etc.

Forget about the two bit lawyer that makes a case of the association having the incorrect name/address on file, thus his client never received "proper notice" so the action of the BOD is not valid.

Allow me to ask some tough love questions: Could this present BOD operate in any way shape or form that you would not have issues with what they do? Has it not become personal with you?

Well, you are now in the line of fire. Enjoy it.








TerryB6
(Oklahoma)

Posts:38


11/28/2012 7:10 PM  
JC46, as you mentioned aside from the two-bit lawyer, lot's of valid points. And that is exactly what they used to do; and honestly don't think anyone would have much of an issue. My point was the president got caught bending the rules, and instead of accepting accountability she blames the membership at large for voting for it and me, when I had nothing to do with filing the complaint.

And yes, I'm in the line of fire. Been here before...
JonD1


Posts:0


11/29/2012 6:31 AM  
Over time and if you read between the lines reality can be found despite the onesided views many peoploe provide.

Amazing, when someone takes it upon themselves to file a complaint with a federal agency over HOA notices. To say that person is trying to use the Postal Service to prove their point would be far to kind. And the OP seems to find great satisfacton in that occuring. And is threatening to contact their lawyer if their honor is not restored. Be very worried...

Yes, the documents require this and we can't have the President bending any rules becuase now I am the self appointed rule enforcer for the entire property and each owner. Well I have heard that line of crap many times. "I am just doing what's right." Now the OP sugests they are concerned about the 25% of the non-resident owners who don't get notified. Really, and they have waited for you to address this? My guess they never requested the OP's assistance in protecting them. And if this was such a big problem why haven't they involved themselves? My guess they are all big boys and girls and can speak up for themselves.

AT THE MEETING THE OP HAS ATTENDED HOW MANY OWNERS OUT OF THE TOTAL NUMBER OF OWNERS WERE IN ATTENDANCE??? SIMPLE QUESTION AND IT DOES SERVE A PURPOSE IN KNOWING THE ANSWER.

Like most properties my guess the attendance at meetings on this property is low. When asked, the OP can only provide a vague repsonse to a rather simple question. "I attend the meetings I can." No real answer because that doesn't suit their view.

I have lived here for _____ years there are _____ number of meetings per year comiong to a total of ______ meetings of those I have been present at _______.

But now because the OP can't seem to figure out why such questions are relevant they provide non-answers and then resort to name calling because they now have righteous indignation! How dare you question someone whose 9-5 job is regulatory controls! Perhaps the OP has allowed their day time job to become a lifetime's obsession????? Weeding out those who bend rules. What a noble undertaking!

Even in the reponse from the Board President, this OP provided, they suggest IF the OP attended the meetings they would be aware the members voted to approve the distribution of notices in mailboxes. Must have been a meeting the OP couldn't make......... My guess there have been plenty of them.

And now the OP questions whether these violations they have discovered bring into question as to the Board's ability to be "trusted to handle anything." Now that's a stretch....... They don't notify owners about meeting to my satisfaction therefore what can they possibly do right?

My guess there is lot more to this situation they has been provided. My guess the OP will never seek a Board position and IF they did would never get elected. My guess more than likely the OP will sit by and second guess the actions of the Board while continuing to "attend those meetings I can make". How do you ever serve on a Board when you don't have the ability to attend meetings????

And in most cases when simple minds come up against thoughts they can't process or questions they can't answer it rattles their world to the point they resort to insults and namecalling. Yes, not all that hard to read between these lines............




TerryB6
(Oklahoma)

Posts:38


11/30/2012 5:58 AM  
JD, thanks again for your comments; certainly not substantive in nature but I didn't expect a lot of useful information in your diatribe.
Suffice it to say that I've had extended conversations with the current board president; we've both acknowledged errors and we've made the commitment to work together to assist others who are willing to improve our community. I appreciate all of the helpful comments and suggestions.
JonD1


Posts:0


11/30/2012 11:37 AM  
Isn't it amazing how in just a few days the tone of the OP has changed?

11/27: The OP suggests the Board's failure to notice the owners as they see fit is unacceptable. And this might become a "dealbreaker" whatever that means.

Then we have bits of an exchange in which the OP now has claimed to have made their lawyer aware of accusations and further response it is threatened will be through the lawyer.

Then the OP makes claim they now plan to seek a position on the Board because of the belief the current Board can't be trusted to handle anything.

And now just 2 1/2 days later we are to believe the OP and President have shared extended conversations and plan to walk off into the future hand in hand for the common benefit of their HOA.

Now that's a true conversion.

GOD IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just have to wonder if the OP provided the Board President, other Board members and property owners with the link to this thread?????

Could they be "trusted" to do that?

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