Noise and Mediation

Hi Everyone,
I live in Colorado and we are having more and more noise complaints. Generally, it is the middle or top floor causing noise to the bottom floor. Stomping, yelling, kids play, etc. You've heard it all before. Our covenants state there cannot be any offensive or excessive loud noise. It's ambiguous. How do you define that in order to enforce the rules? We added that they need to have verification which is great but now we find that certain people gain up against, say a renter, and complain. Can a visitor verify the complaint? I live on the bottom floor so I have empathy but you know on the bottom floor it's loud sometimes. I try to be patient in my own situation and if it's too much I talk to my neighbor.

So we have these little wars going on where one person complains about noise, then the other and all are mad and nothing is done. Now they are saying the manager is siding and while they got a notice the other didn't for their complaint, etc.

We are going to have to change our rules about this. One thing is we are going to have to use a noise complaint form so it is all in writing.

So my questions are:
1. Who is able to verify the noise? Do you need more than one to verify? Can it be a friend, family member, etc?
2. How do you define what is excessive noise to even substantiate it or enforce it?
3. How does your HOA handle mediation? If it is within your community how many people make up the panel? Who appoints them? Do you seek outside non court mediation and how does that work? What happens if homeowners will not be on the panel to hear a complaint?

4. If 2 neighbors are fighting with eachother how do you handle it? I do not want our BOD to be involved in neighbor disputes but I'm not sure where to draw the line. Everyone wants the board to handle these situations but as far as I know it is not the boards responsibility. Do your documents have a neighbor dispute resolution? Do you tell them to go to civil court?

We are redoing our documents and I want to make sure in the new set we can get some of these grey areas out so it's easier for the BOD and so homeowners know what to expect.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

I cannot find the do-over key on my keyboard. That was supposed to be "belligerent" and not "belligent."

Amy

Is this a duty/responsibility of the owners association or is a civil issue?

Yes an association should acknowledge when a member complains about a fellow member but often the proper response might well be that it is not an association issue. It is a civil matter and they should call the police.

We had such a situation (noise problem) but we knew it was a fellow that was away on an extended business trip and his son was staying there. We called the fellow. The problem went away. That was as far as we would go and only because we knew the situation. If it happened again, we would have said call the police.

How about a noise meter and a video?

Check out this web page: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/noisemeter.html

My friend has this happen to her and she got someone out with a noise meter. In her case, the noise was so minor, but put the complainant in the cranky neighbor category. You'd have to see what level your local authorities consider a nuisance. That's here, but see if your community (city, county or state) have specific noise guidelines or noise codes. That would be the best starting point.

Sometimes the solution is very simple. I had a neighbor upstairs who had her speakers on the floor so it sounded like my walls were amplifiers. You couldn't really hear the music outside of her apartment. Lifting the speakers off the ground would have helped. Rugs, etc. would have helped. Sometimes, you just have to ask.

Let the board send out a message to all owners that says the noise rule as it is currently written is not enforceable by the HOA as it lacks any definite standards. Then ask the members for suggestions as to how the rule can be re-written so it will have an unambiguous standard that can be measured. Then when someone complains, remind them that you are still waiting on their suggestion.

I love that a Larry! Thanks!

The city does have an ordinance. However, the police told me if you call and they send someone out the noise has to be occurring at that exact time or they cannot do anything about it. Alot of these complaints are from kids above falling down or running, and yelling, etc. By the time even I get over to verify it the noise has stopped. So in this regard the police sure won't do anything.

The homeowner because of the way it is written in the covenants says the board has to enforce it. We initially told them they needed to have it verified. That idea has one fatal flaw, if someone who knows the person violates it then it could be that they are ganging up to get, say, a renter out. So that is not going to fly.

The way our decs are written our noise complaint is pretty worthless. We cannot enforce it so that's exactly what I need to tell people. The HOA really cannot do a thing about it. Which believe me doesn't bother me because in most circumstances it is an upper unit and a lower unit fighting. These neighbor disputes I'd rather just stay out of. People want the HOA to be the police.

Start with the ordinance. The state/county/city ordinance regarding noise is where to begin. usually you have to think of:

1. Time of day/night
2. Frequency (e.g. every night, every Tuesday at 9 a.m., etc.)
3. Duration
4. Actual decibels.

Kids falling down and running sounds more like normal neighborhood activity. You can't expect children to be absolutely quiet. You can't expect your neighbors not to make noise at all, particularly if you're living with neighbors above/beside you.

If the noise doesn't persist long enough, then it might not fall under nuisance. Instead, the actual nuisance may be the person complaining.

I think what Carol has written makes a lot of sense.

DECIBELS! Many municipalities have noise regulations, measured in decibels. I have no idea what measure of proof might be required.

I AM SO HAPPY I LIVE IN A TOWNHOUSE (NOT A CONDO), in a HOA where most of the residents are over 50 and/or hard of hearing! We Boomers sometimes like our music loud, but I've never "heard" of a noise complaint. ;-)

my opinion is the dog and cats you will be able to do something about. the kids issue will be a little tougher. have you ever tried to tell a house full of kids to quiet down? good luck. and if you discipline your kids these days you get hauled into court for child abuse and the kids deliberately disobey their parents these days knowing this.

i'm afraid fining / enforcing a noise ordinance on children via parents will be a futile effort. tyhe courts know it, law enforcement knows it and most likely won't do anything about it.

if they were vandalizing property blasting loud electronic devices then you might have recourse, but just kids yelling and running. good luck.

the dog/cats ammend ccr's to disallow them or require animals be small quiet type animals.

really the best you can do.

i have law enforcement in the family and this is what i was told about noise ordinances.