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Subject: Recall an officer
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BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


01/15/2006 6:16 AM  
Even though I have started legal action against our President and other members of the board (see my other posts),there is a segment of our community who do not want to wait for the wheels of justice to turn. The President(developr) has refused to resign his office or his position on the board (You may recall he got elected by his own 6 votes which were illegal because of nonpayment of assessment fees),this group wants to recall him. There is a sufficient number of owners (1/3) to do this, but we do not know the best way to word the recall document or proceed. Has any one ever done this before or have advice?
SamuelB
(North Carolina)

Posts:83


01/15/2006 6:40 AM  
We were prepared to go through a similar process, however, there is no easy solution. The Board of your HOA is a Corporate entity based in law. You can not just walk up to the President and say "Sir, you are no longer President". It has to be done through legal channels. The laws of your state may be different than those I have been associated with, but I think your next step is to obtain legal advise from an attorney who practices in Condominium law. Once confronted with the fact your group has obtained legal advise, he may chose top step down. Your group and the attorney may need to meet with the Board. You should be able to call a Special Meeting of the Board. If you have the proper number of signatures, the Board can not refuse your request for a Special Meeting. The President does NOT have to be involved in the decision to call a Special Meeting and/or can be voted down by the other Board members (keep in mind, the President only has one vote on the Board, not 6). It will probably take between 10 and 50 days to have the Special Meeting from the time the Board agrees to call it and announces it. If they refuse to call a Special Meeting, it's time to go to court, I'm afraid.

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de St-Exupéry
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/15/2006 6:47 AM  
Hi Becky,

I don't know what state you live in. Great question, and I'm glad you asked it.

Usually it's 2/3 of the homeowner's votes. However, look at your bylaws as to how much of the votes are actually needed for your Association. There's your answer for your Association. The more the better anyway.

I've heard, and I'm not sure how true it is, but the developer has to pick the President, and the developer cannot be President. Again, your Bylaws should tell you about he developer. Another great place to look, is your state statues. There could be some helpful answers conserning the developer being President.

Remember, there are only one vote per household. I do not understand how he can have six votes.

I would try to find all you can in writing to prove that the developer stands to lose his fight to remain President, via certified return receipt, and he/she would have to pay all your attorney fees and court costs. Also, send a copy of your letter, if you have one, to the Association's attorney.

I wish you luck with this situation and let us know on this forum what happens.

Take care,
Audrey
BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


01/15/2006 8:33 AM  
To avoid having to rewrite this I am copying it from my "barter" post. The problems are so many and so intertwined I forget where they begin and end.
Becky

Posted By BeckyV on 01/15/2006 8:27 AM

Thank you all for your input.
Audrey, we find ourselves in this "Developer/Pres of the Board" situation because the developer owns 6 of 31 units (lives in none of them) and because at the first annual meeting (lead by him) he insisted that nominations for officers had to come from the floor and be included on the ballot. Even though several members had the bylaws in front of them stating that the elected board nominates and elects officers, the developer managed to get the members (mostly 75+ year old Sr citizens) to quake and relent when he shouted "This is how my lawyer told me to do it and this is how it will be done". Therefore his name not only went on the ballot for a board position but, if elected, as President. By virtue of his 6 unit votes he won the election and the Pres. position. I was not an owner at that time but was at the meeting. Nothing in our bylaws or State Stautes keep the devloper from sesrving as Pres. they do however state that anyone who is in default of assessments cannot vote and any meeting of the association. thus my poition that his election was illegal.
It is true that he now has only one vote as Pres of the board but he has 2 of the other board members in his pocket most of the time. I have been unable to get them to remove him as Pres.
I have tried to tell them that by virtue of his 6 illegal votes inthe election they too have been illegaly elected and that any decisions or actions taken by them can be considered invalid. I am getting nowhere. Ergo -Enter lawyer.
We only need a simple majority to recall a board member at a special meeting called by 1/3 of the membership. This may not be easy to do in the winter months, as our Michigan Snowbirds fly south leaving only about half of the membership in the area.
I'll keep you posted.


RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


01/15/2006 9:23 AM  
BeckyV stated "we do not know the best way to word the recall document or proceed. Has any one ever done this before or have advice?" Further you said it requires 1/3 of the members to call a special meeting and a simple majority voting at such a meeting to remove.

Bylaws usually indicate this can done by a signed petition. The petition could be in the following format:

We the undersigned member of (name of association) do herein call a special meeting of the members on (date) at (location) starting at (time) for the purpose of voting on whether or not to remove President (name) from the board of directors. And if removed to elect a board member to fill the open position on the board.

Print Name Signature Date Unit Address
__________ _________ ______ _____________


The President has the right to chair the meeting, if present, and speak on their behalf. Those wanting the President also have the right to be heard prior to taking a vote. You can request the vote be taken by secret ballot.

If removed the chair would be occupied by the VP, if present; if not the Secretary, then Treasure, then a selected member. Then a vote can be taken to elect a new director to the board. No other business may be conducted unless specified in the petition.

Read you docs. No attorny is needed unless you think you want one.
Roger
SamuelB
(North Carolina)

Posts:83


01/15/2006 9:30 AM  
.....No attorny is needed unless you think you want one.
Roger


I tend to disagree with this. Based on the length of time involved that this President has abused his/her powers, I tend to think s/he will do anything to avoid the issue and force his/her desires on the community. Having your attorney present will at least keep them honest.

Becky, when we went through a similar situation, we took our attorney and he was needed. The President of the HOA at the time happened to be an Attorney as well. Our Attorney had to get in his face and back him down. It can be done, but if you're serious about this, don't be afraid to bring the big guns with you to the meeting.

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de St-Exupéry
BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


01/15/2006 9:40 AM  
Roger

Our documents do not specifically talk about petetions. The wording is "votes may be cast in person, or by proxy or by writing, duly signed by the designatied voting representative not present at a given meeting in person or by proxy" It goes on to say that "cumulative voting shall not be permitted" I'm not sure what cumuative voting is but I assumed it meant by petition.
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/15/2006 11:37 AM  
Becky,

Please go to Yahoo.com. Type in Michigan Condo state laws.

I've copied and pasted what I found so far. Please read very carefully.

The Developer makes up the bylaws. Once everyone is paying dues he's supposed to step aside.

I'll look for more information.
Audrey

Sunday, January 15, 2006

June 2004

Ask a Question Previous Answers Current By Date By Subject The Developer Controlled Community


Wow! “Developer Controlled Community”– exactly what does that mean? During my many years of community management and working with developer-controlled boards of directors, I have found that the term is often misunderstood both by homeowners and developers serving on the board of directors. This being the case, you can only imagine the struggle new homeowners have with the concept.

Community associations are conceived by the developer who typically forms a non-profit corporation to own the land and amenities, and in the case of condominiums, certain parts of the building exterior. Initially, the developer owns all of the lots or units in the association and has all of the votes; therefore, the developer controls the association. A board of directors typically consisting of the developer and other individuals professionally related to the developer is established to manage the affairs of the association including not only the physical attributes, but also the financial and administrative issues such as collecting owner assessments, holding the annual meeting, and enforcing the deed restrictions.

Early in the development process the developer, acting on behalf of the board of directors, may hire a manager or management firm and delegate much of the day-to-day operation of the association to this third-party manager. This seems to be where things get a bit confusing at times for not only the developer but for the homeowners and the manager as well. The management company often finds itself in a juggling act between meeting the desires of the developer while also acting in the best interest of their employer (the board of directors). The board has a fiduciary responsibility to make decisions and set policies that are in the best interest of the association and the manager is bound by contract to carry out the decisions and policies of the board. Sounds simple, but in the real world of community living and governance, misconceptions about the different parties' roles and responsibilities grow right along with the community.

To clarify the roles that each party plays, you will find below a short list of the most common misconceptions about developer-controlled communities. Please keep in mind that the clarifications are based on typical scenarios and you should always refer to the governing documents for your specific community to obtain the most reliable answers.

The manager works for the developer. Wrong! Managers act at the direction of the entire board of directors, not the developer, one individual director or committee member (unless the board grants a particular individual the authority to deal with a specific matter). The management agreement between an association and a management company usually stipulates that the board should identify one person to act as liaison to the manager.


The developer pays the manager. Not so! Typically, the developer will subsidize or deficit fund the association until there are homeowners paying in sufficient assessments to cover the expenses. The association, whether funded by developer subsidy or owner assessments, pays the manager and all other contractors that perform work for the association. The board collectively decides on all such transactions.


The manager/management company determines the assessment rate. No. The manager instead assists the developer in the creation of the initial budget for the association. The board of directors adopts the annual budget and sets the rate of the assessments.


>>>The developer does not pay assessments. In some cases, the developer drafts the documents in such a way that it is exempt from paying regular assessments. With that “get out of jail free card” exemption, the developer assumes the responsibility for funding the budget until there are enough homeowners paying assessments to cover all of the expenses of the association. The board of directors (including the developer members) must set the rate of the assessment based on what each lot should pay - - assuming the community is complete and all lots were assessed.


The manager is the homeowners' advocate. Well, not exactly. Although the manager is responsible for implementing the decisions and policies of the board, homeowners should have enough interest in their community to present their concerns to the board either in person or in writing. The best way to be heard is to submit to the management company in writing anything you would like passed on to the board. The manager does not vote on any board issues. Owners should attend board meetings to learn what's happening in the association. Those who can't attend meetings should read the newsletter, visit your community website or contact board or committee members for updates. If you are unaware of whether or not your association maintains a website, you should contact the manager or management firm.


The manager is responsible for choosing contractors. Keeping in mind that the management company itself is a contractor of the association, the board (with occasional recommendations made by the management company) tries to choose the best contractors for the association. The manager does not have direct control over the contractors' actions and they are not responsible for poor performance. The manager is responsible for monitoring contractors' performance and reporting problems to the board. The board is responsible for any subsequent actions. The developer is responsible for the quality and quantity of the amenities, replacement of defective components and addition of amenities during the development period. Once amenities are completed, they are “turned over” to the association for the purpose of upkeep, insuring, and use.


>>>>The developer is responsible for construction defects in individual homes. Only if the developer built the home is he responsible for defects or poor construction. The homebuilder is responsible for problems that arise relating to construction of the home, lot drainage and other issues involving an individual home within a community. In a single family development, this distinction is very clear; however, in a condominium project, the governing documents will detail those items that become the individual owner's responsibility versus association responsibility.
To summarize, the management duties of a developer-controlled community should not differ significantly from a homeowner-controlled community. In each case, the manager works at the direction of the board of directors. The developer board just happens to be comprised of the same person(s) wearing several hats – developer, director, committee member and association member. Both the manager and the board must work together and in the appropriate capacity that best serves the association and its entire membership. When these interests work in harmony, the community as a whole is strengthened.

Sherrill Schafer, PCAM
Vice President, Alliance Association Management




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AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/15/2006 11:54 AM  
Becky, in Michigan:
Contact: Office of Policy and Legislative Affairs - Boundary Commission
Agency: Labor & Economic Growth


Complaints Regarding Developers

The Office of Policy & Legislative Affairs acts as a clearinghouse for the Condominium Act. We send out copies of the Condominium Act and Rules. If this office receives a complaint regarding a condominium developer, it forwards that complaint to the developer and sends a Notice of Available Remedies Under the Condominium Act to both the complainant and the developer. This office has no authority to investigate a complaint further or take any enforcement action concerning any condominium project.

MAYBE THESE PEOPLE CAN HELP IF THEY KNOW WHAT YOUR DEVELOPER IS DONING AND CONTINUES TO DO SINCE EVERYONE IS PAYING DUES, AND HE REMAINS PRESIDENT.
==================================
Transition, to community Associations, represents a time and series of processes when the developer passes ownership, governance and responsibility to the Association. Transition is a time when the Association has the opportunity to uncover potential deficiencies before they become the complete responsibility of the Association, SO BEFORE YOU GET RID OF THE DEVELOPER MAKE SURE EVERYTHING HE HAD DONE WRONG IS CORRECTED BEFORE YOUR ASSOCIATION FULLY TAKES OVER.
=============================================

Transition: From Developer to You. The Basics.

Transition n 1. a) a passing from one condition, form, stage, activity, place, etc. To another b) the period of such passing.

Transition, to community Associations, represents a time and series of processes when the developer passes ownership, governance and responsibility to the Association. Transition is a time when the Association has the opportunity to uncover potential deficiencies before they become the complete responsibility of the Association. Transition is a time for the Association to assure that it is getting an acceptable product and that they are on the right track for funding of capital replacements required in the future. Transition is a time for discovery and a time for resolution. After an association has transitioned, if thoroughly and adequately executed and resolved, the association should become independent of the developer’s support, and be allowed to mature into ongoing governance by the unit owners.

The transition process deals with the transfer of general common elements and limited common elements. The general common elements and limited common elements are prescribed in the governing documents for each community. These are the components of the community the Association is generally responsible for maintaining and replacing. Other items that do not fall into one of the two above categories may be the responsibility of the individual unit owner. These issues must be addressed through individual pursuit of the developer and the homeowner warranty. Examples of such issues are generally interior finishes, squeaks small (cosmetic) cracks, HVAC systems, etc. However, every community is different, and the common elements and limited common elements will vary based upon the governing documents. All problems should be brought to the attention of the transition engineer, via the engineer’s resident questionnaire or otherwise, so that possibly large deficiencies may be identified while still minor.

The Board of Directors
The composition of the board of directors of the community is established in different ways. The developer initially appoints the board of directors. Through the transition process, the board of directors becomes composed of the unit owners. These new board members are challenged with the duty of representing the best interests of the Association. (See CAI-GAP Report #3 Transition from Developer Control, Second Addition for further information and process of board establishment).

Professional Assistance
To assure that your community is properly represented and that the proper tools and knowledge are available to the Association, the Association should retain the services of a qualified and experienced management company, accountant, attorney and engineer. With the assistance of the Association’s manager, the public offering statement, governing documents, site plans, architectural plans, municipal resolutions, bond release information, operational policies, financial information, repair information and everyday occurrences of complaints, problems and events should be collected and available for review by the professionals. Through the review and reporting by each individual professional, the Association will be guided towards proper transition processes.

The next step of the process, once all information has been gathered, is to have the engineer begin to review the documents, conduct inspections of the common elements and prepare an engineering report. The engineering report should identify the "typical" deviations from the proposed construction and any construction deficiencies as may be visible, and suggest additional investigative work or evaluation, depending on the existing conditions. The engineering report should also provide recommendations for the Association, as a guide to remedy the discovered deficiencies.

The accountant’s report will address issues such as whether the developer has paid all required maintenance assessments. The accountant will review the capital reserve study (discussed below) provided by the engineer regarding whether all funds were properly collected at closing and accounted for and evaluate the operating balances and expenses. Again, the developer and attorney will review the reports and seek resolution of any deficient circumstances.

Another portion of the engineering reporting should be the preparation of a Capital Reserve Study. "Reserves" are the "fuel" to keep a Community in prime condition. Proper reserve funding not only increases a Community’s value by allowing for timely replacement and repair of the common elements, but it also avoids large, untimely assessments to the residents. The developer is responsible for projecting the initial funding for the community when the community is under the developer’s control. A capital reserve study prepared by an engineer is a means to assess the adequacy of the initial funding projection to the actual funding required, provided by the developer.

Every development has specific aspects associated with it and the reconstruction of repair efforts of common elements of that development should be equally specific. There are no "typical" costs associated with the replacement of common elements. Every project is unique and should be treated as such. Current replacement costs for each reserved item should be provided in the Capital Reserve Fund Analysis.

After review of the reports by the Association and its attorney, the issues are presented to the developer for remedy. The steps to follow include reviewing the potential problems that can occur from deficient construction, reviewing the costs to correct the issues, and discussing the means, methods and solutions with the developer. On-site meetings and correspondence between the developer, the attorney and the engineer are generally utilized to solve the problems identified. Continued communication and cooperation are paramount in resolving the transitional issues.

Summary
Transition is a process. When properly completed it will benefit the homeowners and community. When shortcuts are taken or issues are not properly pursued, the community will be faced with hardship in the future. Cooperative efforts of both parties can result in a well-run Association, with well-planned finances, and a community that is prepared for the future.


MORE COMING:






AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/15/2006 12:00 PM  
Becky,

There is more information about this on Yahoo.com type in Michigan State Codominium Laws and click on the links you feel might help you.

Good luck,
Audrey

Realty Times is the one-stop shop for real estate information. That's why over 10,000 real estate professionals have turned to us for their publicity needs.

Real Estate News and Advice
January 13, 2006

Search Realty Times

News & Advice > Columnist Benny L. Kass

Taking Over Control From Your Developer
by Benny L. Kass

Q. I recently purchased a condominium unit from a developer. There are 175 units, and most of the units have been sold. As I understand it, the Developer currently controls the Board of Directors, but we understand that he intends to give the Board to the owners in the very near future. What exactly does this mean? Do we, as owners, have any rights with regard to this turnover? Are there any steps we should begin taking now?

A. You are correct. When a builder develops a community association, whether it is a condominium or a home owner association, until a certain percentage of the units are sold, the developer retains control of the association. This means that the developer’s representatives are on the Board of Directors of the Association. All fees and assessments are (or should be) deposited into your association’s bank account, but the developer -- through the Board -- controls the funds, sets the budget and makes the rules. At some point in time, however, the developer is obligated to turn over control of the association to the owners. Some states have laws spelling out when control must be turned over; and most association legal documents also spell out this requirement.

You are, however, not correct when you state that the developer intends to “give” the Board to the owners. In reality, Board members are elected by the owners, in the same way as our Congressmen and Senators are elected to serve in the United State Congress.

Transition between developer control and owner control of an association is perhaps the most important aspect of any community association. If done properly, your association will be off to a good start; if done poorly, it will take you a long time to get back on track.

A community is generally governed by an association , through a board of directors. Although many owners do not understand this, when the very first home in a complex is sold, the association is already in existence. The developer usually selects the first board of directors, which controls the association until turnover of control is accomplished. In general, the laws in the surrounding jurisdictions require that control be turned over to the owners within so many years after the first sale, or when a certain percent of the homes have been sold, whichever comes first. The turnover requirement should also be spelled out in your association’s governing documents.

Unfortunately, many developers do not understand the importance of working with owners so that they will be prepared to manage the association themselves. It is not good practice, in my opinion, for a developer merely to announce one day that a meeting will be held, at which time the owners will elect a new board of directors to govern and manage the association. Owners are new to the complex and do not know one another. They are reluctant to vote someone into office without knowing who that person is or what that person stands for.

You can take the lead and arrange for a meeting of the owners. Have it in the social hall, a nearby church or school, or even in someone's home. Once you learn who is interested in taking an active role in the association, contact the developer and ask for a preliminary meeting for the purpose of asking your questions and raising any of your concerns. You and your group should try to pin the developer down as to when control will be turned over. You should also discuss the level of cooperation which the developer will give you during transition. Find out whether the developer intends to be helpful, or will just “wash his hands” and walk away. Some developers have even agreed to front some seed money so that the “rump” association will be able to hire an attorney to assist them at the earliest possible time.

>>>>> At some point in time, the developer will have to schedule a meeting of owners. The purpose of the meeting will be for the owners to elect a new board of directors. I find it curious that owners are often asked to vote for members of a board that will control their own destiny without having any information on who these prospective members are or what they stand for. If possible, a notice should be circulated to all of the owners advising them that there will be a meeting before the election, at which time people can campaign for seats on the board. In my opinion, a community association is a mini-democracy. We have political campaigns for government officials; we should also have campaigns for directors of community associations.

Once the owners are in control, there are four mandatory steps that must be taken by the new Board:

1. Audit the books: An independent auditor or a certified public accountant must examine the association's books. It is important for members of the new board to satisfy themselves (and the owners they represent) that during the time the developer was in control of the association, all moneys collected and all expenses paid have been properly accounted for. Keep in mind that while the developer is in control of the association, the developer also has access to the association funds. Often, this access is unlimited. You want to make sure that funds which should have been paid by the developer are not inadvertently (or purposely) paid out of association proceeds.

Developers handle the question of payment of fees for the homes they still own in different ways, but under any circumstances, the developer must be held accountable for all its legitimate obligations. Additionally, in many instances the developer, while serving as a board member, may have allowed many owners to become seriously delinquent in paying their association fees. The new board must establish a careful and comprehensive collection policy that will be applied uniformly. I am a strong believer in a "zero tolerance" policy when it comes to delinquencies.

2. Select a management company: The new board must decide whether to retain the existing management company -- which had been selected by the developer -- or select a totally independent management company. The association may decide to forego hiring such a company and become "self-managed", but I personally do not recommend this. An association containing a large number of homes needs formal and professional management.

3. Retain Legal Counsel: The association should retain a lawyer knowledgeable about community association laws. The lawyer will have to handle a wide variety of issues, ranging from developer problems -- such as warranty and other transition issues -- to assisting the association in its day-to-day activities. A community association is not only a mini-democracy, it is also a business, and must function in that capacity as well. Your association has many owners; your annual budget may very well be as large -- if not larger -- than many commercial businesses in the Washington metropolitan area.

4. Physical Inspection of the Property: The board should consider hiring an engineer to inspect the complex as soon as possible. The engineer should determine whether there are any warranty defects or problem areas which should be called to the attention of the developer. The engineer can also help the board determine the proper level of reserves that are needed for future repairs. This is known as a “reserve analysis study”. The professional engineer determines the useful life of the major components in the complex (eg. the roof, elevator, and other common areas), and the projected cost to replace at the end of its life. On an annual basis, sufficient funds should be placed in reserve, so that when the component wears out, there will be enough money in reserve to pay for its replacement. Otherwise, each owner will be faced with a large special assessment.

Turnover of developer control is the most important aspect in determining the future success of a community association. It is not often understood by developers. Indeed, some developers do not want to encourage active participation by the new board for fear that this new board will be too conscientious in reviewing the developer's activities.

Good dialogue among unit owners, the developer and board goes a long way toward creating a successful association. It’s hard work to be on a Board of Directors, and the hours are long and there is no pay. But, the unit you own is your investment and you certainly want to protect it as best you can.

Published: March 25, 2002


Related Articles:


HOA Board Operations Manual

How To Collect Correctly With HOAs

How To Solve Grinding HOA Disputes

Author of the weekly Housing Counsel column with The Washington Post for nearly 30 years, Benny Kass is the senior partner with the Washington, DC law firm of Kass, Mitek & Kass, PLLC and a specialist in such real estate legal areas as commercial and residential financing, closings, foreclosures and workouts.
Mr. Kass is a Charter Member of the College of Community Association Attorneys, and has written extensively about community association issues. In addition, he is a life member of the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws. In this capacity, he has been involved in the development of almost all of the Commission’s real estate laws, including the Uniform Common Interest Ownership Act which has been adopted in many states.


Copyright © 2002 Realty Times®. All Rights Reserved.


Columnist Benny L. Kass

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BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


01/15/2006 12:16 PM  
Audrey, WOW, you really have gone the extra mile for us.I have read the Michigan Statutes for both Condo and non-profits as well as the administrative rules for those public acts. That is why I am so sure I need to continue on with this process.
In the past, two co-owners did send a complaint to the Attorney General who is the administrator in our state. Unfortuately their complaints centered around incomplete landscaping, reserve fund balance and personal complaints. They were not aware of the many other issues that exist. The attorney general did respond to the developer with rememdies. I am not aware of the contents of that letter.
My biggest problem with the board is that I can not seem to get through to them that the association was created when the Articles of Incorporation were filed. (July 31, 1995) and not at transition (Sept 1, 2005). They feel that the developer controlled every aspect of the condominium up until the 2005 date and was within his right to not pay fees and simply provide oversight and "payment" to himself until transiton. There were no documented board meetings, financial statements or budgets available to owners during the 10 year period developer controlled period (because they didn't exsist). Even when I show the new co-owner board the relavent statutes and sections of our bylaws, they are unable to make themselves take corrective action.
So - Here comes the judge!
Thanks for your help.


RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


01/15/2006 6:33 PM  
If your bylaws state "1/3 of the members can can call a meeting" then to call a meeting the petition is the means by which it can be done. I guess you could collect proxies, present them to the board, and ask if they would call a meeting. However, this does not call a meeting and they can ignore you. Make sure the petition identifies the meeting date otherwise they can decide when to do so (such as in a few years). The other info is needed so they can advise all members of the special meeting, as is required.

Your note refers to voting at a meeting; not to the procedure for calling a meeting. An example of cumulative voting is - when you are voting to elect 2 directors and rather than voting for 2 different candidates, you vote twice for one candidate.

Roger
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/15/2006 9:17 PM  
Hey Judge, how do you know as much as I do? Were you a Board member from another Association like myself? I do not know of any other person besides myself, that when I find something out that wrong with the Association, I will not let go until I have righted the wrong, like yourself. I don't care about retaliation when I'm right and they are wrong either.

Anyone can write the law officals within your state capital. Only this time, YOU write the Attorney General's office in the order of events as they occured, and also write your state divisions not-for-profit corporations the same letter with the same enclosures, only change the name and addresses, sending them both certified letters, and whatever you have in writing that shows the developer has six units, (copy his/her property tax bill off of your local Tax Collector's web site) and inform them that he still does not pay dues, and is President of your Association still after our Articles of Incorporation has been filed, and everything else that should be going on and being done that has never happened or been done. Copy and Paste that list the developer is supposed to do when the majority of the homeowner's are paying dues I sent you too. How about how the Board meetings are handled? Agenda for Board meetings being posted 72 hours in advanced and placed in places where everyone can see? Minutes of the meetings? What are they doing with the money from the homeowner's? If there aren't any of these things happeing, you have to prove it somehow. Send all your proof to back up everything you say. Include some notarized affidavits from other homeowner's if you can too, backing everything you say and whatever else they know.

Discribe in full detail, about how your Association is being mismanaged and is out of control and that someone needs to straighten this mess out, and now!

Here in Florida we have a statute 617.2003 for our Attorney General to either revolk or keep from it's use of our Articles of Incorporation, and get the money reimbursed to the Association too. Everything I sent was sent to be department for mediation.

If you happen to get a negative response, take the letters and with everything you have, and find a real estate attorney well verse in these matters. Get other homeowner's to split the cost of the attorney. The more homeowner's the better.

Your developer is on one very long, and too long of an ego trip.

Go get'em girl! I mean, Judge.

Audrey

AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/15/2006 9:17 PM  
Hey Judge, how do you know as much as I do? Were you a Board member from another Association like myself? I do not know of any other person besides myself, that when I find something out that wrong with the Association, I will not let go until I have righted the wrong, like yourself. I don't care about retaliation when I'm right and they are wrong either.

Anyone can write the law officals within your state capital. Only this time, YOU write the Attorney General's office in the order of events as they occured, and also write your state divisions not-for-profit corporations the same letter with the same enclosures, only change the name and addresses, sending them both certified letters, and whatever you have in writing that shows the developer has six units, (copy his/her property tax bill off of your local Tax Collector's web site) and inform them that he still does not pay dues, and is President of your Association still after our Articles of Incorporation has been filed, and everything else that should be going on and being done that has never happened or been done. Copy and Paste that list the developer is supposed to do when the majority of the homeowner's are paying dues I sent you too. How about how the Board meetings are handled? Agenda for Board meetings being posted 72 hours in advanced and placed in places where everyone can see? Minutes of the meetings? What are they doing with the money from the homeowner's? If there aren't any of these things happeing, you have to prove it somehow. Send all your proof to back up everything you say. Include some notarized affidavits from other homeowner's if you can too, backing everything you say and whatever else they know.

Discribe in full detail, about how your Association is being mismanaged and is out of control and that someone needs to straighten this mess out, and now!

Here in Florida we have a statute 617.2003 for our Attorney General to either revolk or keep from it's use of our Articles of Incorporation, and get the money reimbursed to the Association too. Everything I sent was sent to be department for mediation.

If you happen to get a negative response, take the letters and with everything you have, and find a real estate attorney well verse in these matters. Get other homeowner's to split the cost of the attorney. The more homeowner's the better.

Your developer is on one very long, and too long of an ego trip.

Go get'em girl! I mean, Judge.

Audrey

BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


01/16/2006 6:27 AM  
Audrey, I did serve on a condo board in FL for six years. My husband and I recently purchased a condo in Michigan for ourselves and I now serve on that board. A few months ago I purchased a condo for my father and it is this association that is troublesome.
I too, when I know I am right will not let go. I am very distressed about what is happeneing at the association where my father lives, as most residents are over the age of 75 (most in their 80's) and are either physically unable or just not interested. Many of them pretty much believe whatever the developer tells them.
Board Meetings - Interesting you should ask. After transtion in Sept 05, the president of the board (the developer) said that board meetings did not need an agenda, would be closed, with no notification of location, time or place and minutes not distributed. The bylaws do not specifically address any of the above issues, nor do MI statues or non-profit act. I have been able to get the board to notify the membership, by newsletter, of the actions of the board, the date of the next meeting and methods for co-owners to address the board. The board now uses an agenda for meetings. Some small successes.
Thanks for your help.
Becky
BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


01/16/2006 6:35 AM  
Thanks Roger.
I have written one final letter to the board outlining my position and informing them that several owners are strongly inclined to take legal action. In the interim we will forge on using your suggestion for a special meeting and attempt a recall. We will continue our efforts to make the developer accountable for the 10 years of mismanagement. As he never created associaton accounts but rather put associaton fees into his business account, I think we have a very strong case for fraud and misuse of funds.
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/16/2006 7:41 AM  
Becky, you are most welcome. I am glad there is a Floridian, a twin, so to speak, living in Michigan.

Unless the homeowner has severed on a board and has learned the proper way as to how a board is run, they do not have a clue, and believe whatever they are told. If they do happen to know, they are scared for rocking the boat, and being retaliated against.

The trick for you during all of the stress corrrecting the wrong: Remain consistant within you quest, remain calm and remain prorfessional at all times. Remember, you are right, the developer and the rest of the Board is wrong.

I applaud all of your efforts, and I look forward to hear you have received postitive results.

Use those Newsletters as proof. I did against my President of my Association. Did you know the President wrote we don't collect income, we collect dues? I sware, she wrote that!

Rock their world in Lansing!

I wish you good luck.

Remain in good health,
Audrey
SamuelB
(North Carolina)

Posts:83


01/16/2006 7:51 AM  
Posted By BeckyV on 01/16/2006 6:27 AM
...... The bylaws do not specifically address any of the above issues, nor do MI statues or non-profit act. .....


Becky, do any of your CC&R's require the board meetings (and/o annual meeting)to be run in accordance of RROR (hopefully, Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised)? If so, then announcement of meetings, the agenda, and open Annual meeting should be covered. However, you would still need one of the documents to dictate that an Annual meeting is required (and I bet it's somewhere in the state documents).

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de St-Exupéry
BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


01/16/2006 9:15 AM  
Samuel, thank for the reminder about Roberts rules. Our documents do require that Roberts Rules or "some other authority" be used in conducting meetings. The ccr's don't specifically talk about board meetings but are quite specific about Annual meetings.
Becky
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


01/16/2006 3:23 PM  
keep in mind, the President only has one vote on the Board, not 6...this is what I am trying to discover with our board. If this developer owns six properties, shouldn't he get six votes? I need to know this as well as our president and mate are both on the board and both voting. If they own another property doesn't that give them 2 votes?
SamuelB
(North Carolina)

Posts:83


01/16/2006 3:58 PM  
Posted By SharonD on 01/16/2006 3:23 PM

keep in mind, the President only has one vote on the Board, not 6...this is what I am trying to discover with our board. If this developer owns six properties, shouldn't he get six votes? I need to know this as well as our president and mate are both on the board and both voting. If they own another property doesn't that give them 2 votes?


If they own 6 units, that gives them 6 votes for things that require an association vote (re; electing board members). However when voting on board issues as a board member, they only have one (1) vote.

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de St-Exupéry
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/17/2006 10:39 AM  
Hi Becky,

Please go to flsenate.gov. Click Real Esate then find chapter 720 for HOA's. Even though you are in Michigan this information as well as ideas and may be some help for your situation.

I couldn't hurt.

Have a great one,
Audrey
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/17/2006 10:41 AM  
Becky, that was flsenate.gov FS 720.30 is the statute to look at.

Sorry about that.

Audrey
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/17/2006 10:47 AM  
Hi Sharon,

I asked someone who knows all about these kinds of things, and he is well known advicate throughout Florida
He says:

"On the board every board member has only one vote! Period!
At a members' meeting anybody has as many votes as he/she owns lots, but only one vote for husband/wife!
There is a big difference!"

I hope this helps you.

Take Care,
Tobi
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/17/2006 10:50 AM  
Hi Becky,

I asked someone who knows all about these kinds of things, and he is well known advicate throughout Florida
He says:

"On the board every board member has only one vote! Period!
At a members' meeting anybody has as many votes as he/she owns lots, but only one vote for husband/wife!
There is a big difference!"

I hope this helps you.

Take Care,
Tobi
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


01/19/2006 12:26 PM  
I reviewed our bylaws. It states a minimum of seven on the board: maximum of 12. As we have a president, vice president, sceretary and treasurer ...they came up with this new term:directors at large as they are directors of no units....we have 5 units only
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


01/19/2006 12:33 PM  
I reviewed our bylaws. It statesone vote per property..but if multiple properties they get multiple votes
BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


01/20/2006 7:08 AM  
"Curses, foiled again!"
For follow-up. I had convinced 3 board members to vote to remove the president from his office at this week's meeting. When I got back in town last night, I found out that the meeting had to be cancelled because of an ice storm. Next meeting is not until 2Feb. So the saga continues. I'll keep you posted.
I have signed a retainer with a lawyer who helped author the Michigan stautes so I feel well represented in my quest for justice.
Becky
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/21/2006 11:50 AM  
Hi Becky,

Sorry to hear the ice storm keep the meeting from taking place.

Good to know you found an attorney to help you. Hope this ends quickly so the cost to you stays down until you win this case, and get reimbursed.

Hang in there. You are doing a fine job.

Audrey
BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


01/25/2006 12:06 PM  
Audrey,
Just thought you might like to know that progress is being made. The developer has antied up the last 6 months worth of assessment fees (not nearly enough for the 10 years he didn't, but it's a start). Seventeen of 31 owners have verbally agreed to support my legal action against him and the developer controlled board. I hear he may be checking out his D&O coverage for the time the association was under developr control. It may be a short battle. Will keep you posted.
Becky
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


01/27/2006 2:42 AM  
Hi Becky,

Thank you for the up date! Sounds like the Developer found out he's in trouble.

I'm glad you got some homeonwer's to be with you through your process.

I look forward to hear more about your progress.

Keep up the good work, and it's on ward and up ward from here.

Great job!

Audrey
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/09/2006 11:15 AM  
Our president and her girlfriend both resigned after 8 years of ruling.....(2 votes one house)then the following meeting had themselves voted back on as "directors at large...
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/09/2006 11:15 AM  
Our president and her girlfriend both resigned after 8 years of ruling.....(2 votes one house)then the following meeting had themselves voted back on as "directors at large...
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/09/2006 11:17 AM  
hwere can I find this to show them at the next board meeting?
BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


02/09/2006 1:48 PM  
Sharon,
How did they manage to get themselves back on the board? If it wasn't by regular election, were they appointed by the remaining board members? I also don't understand how they get 2 votes in one household. Usually your bylaws will state, in the area under voting or under membership, how many votes a household has. The only time it could be more than one is if the "percentage of value" gives them more than one. I'm not sure what you want "to show them at the next board meeting".
Becky
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


02/10/2006 8:36 PM  
Hi Becky,

I understand everything you've said.

Here in Florida, it is written in our state law as well as our articles of incorporation, when the developer is ready to turn over the property to the homeowner's, he picks a board w/o him on it. No matter how many homes(6) whether he lives in them or not, he has one vote, and he cannot be put on the ballot to be President. That's Florida.

If I may suggest, maybe you need to copy and paste your quote, and send it to your state Legislator's, a certified letter about your situation. I would also try to get a dozen or so homeowner's to sign your letter, with their names, and addresses attached too. The Legislator's seem to listen more with more homeowner's involved, however, if I couldn't get a dozen or so signatures, I still would rock their world and shake up the capital, and tell them, "there ought to be a law against the developer being on the ballot and become President, and owes the Association money (tell the amount he owes) for assessments." Your Legistor's like in Florida, are the ones who make the laws for your articles of incorporation, and bylaws. They need to know this is happening, and that there are other states who do not allow the developer become a member in any capacity on the board of director's. Even if he does own property, even if he does owe the Association back assessments, he picks the Board and he pays his assessments to the Association, and he can own a dozen properties, he still gets one vote. No exceptions and no excuses. Nothing ventured nothing gained. This would be a nice way to put a period after you're finished.

I look foward to hear more about how your situtation is going. You are doing a great job, just hang in there.

Take care,
Audrey

BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


02/11/2006 5:52 AM  
Audrey,
I have emailed you under your email address.
Please respond if you like.
Becky
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/13/2006 8:46 PM  
I have no clue. They decided they would be "directors at large" and a vote was taken and the remaining board people approved their coming back on. I think the board members are so entalled by her b.s. that they are afraid to run the board without her. As I understand it, it is one vote per household but if they own two homes: 2 votes. I need to find out if they own two properties. Fact is though even though president has resigned and now is:"director at large" SHE is still running meetings with no agendas! NAD no one says anything to the contrary..our board is so poorly run and no one can see it!
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


02/15/2006 2:03 AM  
Hi Sharon,

Please find your local tax collector's web site and click on property search and type in either their names or addressess and see for yourself what property or properties they own.

Also, your state capital main operator should have a phone number or maybe even a toll free number, for homeowner's either condo or deed restricted questions regarding your situation, and if you own more than one home do you get a second or thrid vote? Keep in mind some condo laws also apply to single home associations.

I believe, you should continue to ask questions.

I wish you luck.

Take Care,
Audrey
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/17/2006 7:11 PM  
question: we have a similar siytuation: residential not condo. A couple owns two houses in the areas. They both are on the board. I have objected to the two getting two voted at board meetings. I asked them to disclose how many properties they own in the project and was told: none of my business.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


02/17/2006 8:09 PM  
SharonD, usually there is one vote per lot, if so they have two votes if they own two properties. Did the owners elect both to the Board? If so, was this discussed at the time? IMHO it is too late to object after they are elected. If you want to know how many properties they own check the property ownership records in your county.

RogerB
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/18/2006 1:28 PM  
I am responding to your email to me as I do not know where to respond to my inquiry.
I am confused. I understood it was one vote per property for association votings. For board voting: onky one vote. Otherwise, if I owned 2 properties, as a board member does that mean I GOT 2 votes? Doesn't seem correct as they way I would have a controlling interest over the board. Both these people have resigned from the board effective 2 mos ago but theney have never left and are still running our meetings!
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


02/18/2006 1:29 PM  
Hi Sharon,

REF: How many properties they own in the project:
Go to your local tax collector's web site to find out how many properties they own. If you know their names real well type in their name or their address of this couple. The tax collector's web site should answer your question.

Take Care,
Audrey
BeckyV
(Michigan)

Posts:43


02/18/2006 2:10 PM  
Sharon,
You are right that each board member only gets one vote on board business. I think you are saying that there are two people from the same household on the board. Usually the only way this could happen is if there is ownership of two properties. I also think yu are saying that these members resigned from the board but that the board reappointed them to fill the vacant positons. Is this correct?
Unfortunately, there is probably nothing in your governing documents to prevent this from happening unless they specifically state that two members of the same household cannot serve on the board simulateously.
Apathy of the other owners will probably let the situation continue unless you and other interested owners can head a campaign to remove them or vote them out.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


02/18/2006 2:19 PM  
SharonD stated "I am confused. I understood it was one vote per property for association votings. For board voting: onky one vote. Otherwise, if I owned 2 properties, as a board member does that mean I GOT 2 votes? Doesn't seem correct as they way I would have a controlling interest over the board."

One member of the board never gets over 1 vote at a board meeting no matter how many properties they own. At a board meeting each board member gets one vote. If both are directors they each gets one vote (unless the bylaws state that only one member in a home can serve on the board, in which case one of the two should never have been elected by the members and must resign).

If you own two properties you get two votes at a members meeting. If two owners own two properties each could elect to have one vote, or they can elect to have one have two votes.

Does that make it clearer?

RogerB
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/18/2006 10:30 PM  
going to the county records requires assessment numbers. Fact is these women stated it was none of my business what they owned; WRONG...THEY ARE BOTH ON THE BOARD BECAUSE??????? Husband and wife are not allowed so why should same sex be allowed?
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/18/2006 10:36 PM  
with regards to my dilemna: both women resigned...then they had te members vote them back as directors at large..New title.. but fact is they are still running the board and the other members who are ?"in control or should be are shriveled like some flower without water...these women are controlling the board and no one wants to go against them.......i have tried for years but results are like a mastiff attacking a cat.
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/19/2006 8:49 AM  
Yes these people live in the same home. When asked what properties they owned the one stated: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. They refuse to state what they own so I will have to go to a title company and get a profile of all the owners in the association. Our association calls for unit directors : 5 and they are to be the treasurer, secretary, president etc. Our bylaws state there can be up to 7 directors. After they resigned I approached the other members to elect new president etc upon which a "special" meeting was xalled and these tw women had themslves voted back onto the board as "directors at large" however they are still running the meetings and we have no president, the treasurer resigned but still is handling the monies and none of the unit sirectors want to take the vacant positions. I said I would but the two women stated they didn't want me running anything.....
SharonD
(California)

Posts:39


02/19/2006 8:51 AM  
what web site? The one i looked at asks for property addresses or assessment numbers: neither of which I have
AudreyB
(Florida)

Posts:104


02/19/2006 1:41 PM  
Sharon, Your local tax collecor's web site. If the owner's live in your subdivision, their address should be easy enough to obtain shouldn't it? When you type in their address, if they own two or five properties in your county, the tax collector should list all the properties they own in their names. Also, all owner's are entitled to a directory (names, addresses, and phone numbers) of all the owners, including the Board of Director's in your subdivision/association.

Take care,
Audrey
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