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BenJ
(Florida)

Posts:21


06/11/2008 2:54 PM  
Our CCRs prohibit parking on the street but the streets are not owned by the HOA. Anyone aware of any Florida State statue that provides immunity for law enforcement vehicles--I can't seem to find it? I vaguely recall reading somewhere that they are allowed to park anywhere, if they are on a call. We've been fairly successful enforcing this restriction but have had problems in the past with some vehicles remaining on the street for extended periods of time. Typically, we would called the sheriff's office and they would have the vehicle removed after 48 hours.
AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:935


06/11/2008 3:38 PM  
Ben, I'm in Florida too, and I'll tell you a funny story...not that it will help you; sorry about that. I used to be VERY involved with the Fire Department. The guys at the station take out a fire truck, once per day to do their 24-hour shift grocery shopping. They always park in the "fire lane" while two guys go in to shop. A police officer--from the same city--told them they'll get a ticket for parking their vehicle there...even though they're the ONLY ones allowed to use the curbside "fire lane". The fire guys were still "on-duty" and the guys in the store doing the shopping often left the groceries to respond to a call.....but where do you draw the line?

In one part of your e-mail you state it is a "law enforcement" vehicle...which is it? A police vehicle or a private one?
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2803


06/11/2008 3:40 PM  
I cannot speak for florida law.
i cannot speak to how a covenant can cover an area of public access (we forbid parking on streets that the city allows anyone to park on). there will be others along who know such things far better than I.

I can speak to one aspect: An emergency vehicle, while engaged in a response, can do almost anything. If a police car needs to park in the middle of an intersection during a response, it can, and there is no "ticket" issued. If they need to park on a sidewalk, they can. During a response.

However, in my 25 years of EMS experience, i havent' seen too many "responses" that require a vehicle to sit in one spot for 24 to 48 hours. I suppose a long stand off with hostage might require it, but short of that, i doubt the vehicle is "engaged in a response", or even on-duty that whole time.
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2803


06/11/2008 3:45 PM  
Posted By AnnaD2 on 06/11/2008 3:38 PM
Ben, I'm in Florida too, and I'll tell you a funny story...not that it will help you; sorry about that. I used to be VERY involved with the Fire Department. The guys at the station take out a fire truck, once per day to do their 24-hour shift grocery shopping. They always park in the "fire lane" while two guys go in to shop. A police officer--from the same city--told them they'll get a ticket for parking their vehicle there...even though they're the ONLY ones allowed to use the curbside "fire lane". The fire guys were still "on-duty" and the guys in the store doing the shopping often left the groceries to respond to a call.....but where do you draw the line?




Yup, that happens all the time, everywhere. The reason for it is actually simple: the fire lane is the closest place the fire truck can park and still be free to move FORWARD should they get a call to engage. Yes, they could park at the far edge of the lot, but then their inside partners have farther to run should a call come. And in general, the driver HATES to park where he has to back up, jockey, or work around others with his rig. That fire lane is nice and open and easy to get into and out of, and only a complete idiot would park in front of a fire truck in a fire lane and block them in.

And if your fire guys were like most, had that ticket been issued, the local precinct would have been in for a sudden spate of sprinkler inspections, riser checks, etc., and i am sure a half dozen citable offenses would have been made to the fire marshall about extension cords, coffee makers, etc. in the offices.
AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:935


06/11/2008 3:46 PM  
Thanks Brian for adding your expertise on this topic. A personal THANK YOU for the work you previously did! You're a Godsend for being able to do what you could for this country You're a rare breed and deserve ALL the credit people can give you!!!
BenJ
(Florida)

Posts:21


06/11/2008 4:03 PM  
AnnaD2,

It's a deputy sheriff's official vehicle.

Thanks for the reply.

Ben
AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:935


06/11/2008 4:12 PM  
You're welcome! Now can anyone help the original "poster"? Where is Donna when we need her? Livin the good life in TN I guess.
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


06/11/2008 4:24 PM  
We had a metro police officer parking his take-home vehicle on the street overnight. It is a full-fledge police car with all the markings, lights, etc.

Our CC&Rs do not allow on-street parking in excess of four hours or overnight.

We sent him a notice of violation. We reminded him of the CC&R restricting parking on the street to no more than 4 hours in any 24 hour period and never overnight.

He ignored the initial notice.

We sent him a second one.

Then our president ran into him in the grocery and they talked about it.

The police officer said it was not a private street, it was a public one, taken care of by the county.

The president reminded him of the CC&Rs that apply to all residents and all of the CC&Rs are enforceable, even the parking ones.

He let him know that the next letter would be from the association attorney and that it might be better if he discussed it with him.

He has stopped parking on the street overnight.

We do not have to have police officers enforce our restrictions, especially when they sometime violate them.

Our documents give us the authority to enforce, since they are our restrictions and not city or county ordinances.

BenJ
(Florida)

Posts:21


06/11/2008 6:42 PM  
MicheleD,

I wish we had the same language in our CC&Rs. Below is what we are working with:


Section 5 – Vehicles. Automobiles, boats, campers, trucks, vans, motorbikes, trailers, motorhomes and the like, stored or for any reason left upon the premises or owned or regularly used by the residents must either be completely garaged or stored in such a location so that same is out of view from both the Front Lot line and any adjoining Lots, except for short term parking not exceeding a forty-eight hour duration. The parking or storage of any such items in any other manner (such as in the street, road right-of-way or in any portion of the driveway which is not out of view from both the Front Lot line and any adjoining Lots) is expressly prohibited.


Ben
MaryA1


Posts:0


06/11/2008 6:59 PM  
Posted By BenJ on 06/11/2008 6:42 PM
MicheleD,

I wish we had the same language in our CC&Rs. Below is what we are working with:


Section 5 – Vehicles. Automobiles, boats, campers, trucks, vans, motorbikes, trailers, motorhomes and the like, stored or for any reason left upon the premises or owned or regularly used by the residents must either be completely garaged or stored in such a location so that same is out of view from both the Front Lot line and any adjoining Lots, except for short term parking not exceeding a forty-eight hour duration. The parking or storage of any such items in any other manner (such as in the street, road right-of-way or in any portion of the driveway which is not out of view from both the Front Lot line and any adjoining Lots) is expressly prohibited.


Ben




Ben,

The CCR restriction you posted above DOES give your board the same authority as Michele's board! In fact, your restriction goes one step further by not allowing parking on the driveway! I've never seen that b/4; but I'm never surprised at what sometimes turns up in an assn's gov. docs!!

In answer to your question, I'm not familiar with FL statutes so can't tell you if there is a law addressing public safety vehicles. In AZ we do have a state law which says public safety vehicles cannot be banned from parking on driveways or streets if the vehicle is required to be at the person's residence at designated times and as a condition of his employment. Frankly, I think having a police cruiser parked anywhere in the neighborhood would be a deterrent to crime.
KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1665


06/11/2008 7:17 PM  
Section 5 – Vehicles. Automobiles, boats, campers, trucks, vans, motorbikes, trailers, motorhomes and the like, stored or for any reason left upon the premises or owned or regularly used by the residents must either be completely garaged or stored in such a location so that same is out of view from both the Front Lot line and any adjoining Lots, except for short term parking not exceeding a forty-eight hour duration. The parking or storage of any such items in any other manner (such as in the street, road right-of-way or in any portion of the driveway which is not out of view from both the Front Lot line and any adjoining Lots) is expressly prohibited.



Ben,

Aside from the poor writing I think the effect of this boils down to these words:
except for short term parking not exceeding a forty-eight hour duration

From this exception, I think that anyone and everyone is allowed to park their vehicle that will be moved within the next 48 hours. And this would include emergency vehicles. If you looked to ban all vehicles from regularly stopping on the street then I would agree. But as far I can see there is no violation if the vehicle moves in less then 48 hours and 1 minute.

The rule is poorly written as many will believe it means no parking at all. Or they would explain that occasional parking while loading or unloading is permitted. But at any rate, your rules allow a vehicle to remain on the street if it will be moved within 48 hours.
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2803


06/11/2008 9:00 PM  
i agree with Kirk. MFHOA had a similar clause, with slightly better wording, and it was clearly intended for STORAGE of vehicles, and the reduction of cars parked in lots, driveways, etc. while being repaired, rusting, storage of boats, trailers, campers, etc..

This clause doesn't really every say parking, it seems to be speaking of storage, and like others have said, as long as it gets moved every other day, it seems fine. HEaven forbid you park your car in the driveway over a 3 day weekend though...
LisaB11
(Florida)

Posts:5


06/12/2008 8:49 AM  
Sorry but I did not read all responses so maybe this has already been covered but I refer to my City's Code of Ordinances. Our City prohibits parking on city streets for more than 24 hours. It is very detailed but not relevant to your cause but there is no distinguishing between City Vehicles vs. private ones. So check with your municipality's Code of Ordinances before trying to find something at the State Level.
KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1665


06/12/2008 12:57 PM  
If you allow other cars to sit on the street overnight then you should encourage the sheriff deputy to do so. It will have a deterrent effect. And you might even be able to get him to sit where people think he is patrolling the streets. Believe it or not, law enforcement can be your friend.
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