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Subject: Waste Removal Programs - Trash Collections
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Jadedone4
(Virginia)

Posts:495


07/15/2007 5:55 AM  
Has anyone here had experience with a "national" HOA M/C using a "Waste Removal Consulting Program" whereas the "national" M/C (not contracted local M/C for HOA) negogiates and manages the trash collection for the HOA. The "agreed" split if the contract produces "savings" is HOA a 2/3's to 1/3's (HOA = 2/3, and the fee for realizing the savings of 1/3 is to the "national" M/C). On issues regarding past overbillings, etc the split changes to 60% to HOA, and 40% to "national" M/C, for review/investigation of previous year's invoices (where an issue of overcharge/billing is found).

This "contract" is a four year (48month) contract an was NOT accompanied by any competitive bids (local or national).

Is the "waste removal" industry this "wrought" with abuses that a local M/C would lack the contract administration and performance review capability to ferret out overcharge/billings?

Isn't this what we pay local M/C to do with any and all HOA contracts...?

I realize that this may be more "rant" than question, but I need to "bounce" this off of the folks here. Maybe there is a "plus" side to this that I am missing.....
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4532


07/15/2007 6:48 AM  
So NOW we know what happened to Tony Soprano AFTER he left the restaruant... He got into HOA management and setup garbage contracts!

I've never heard of a "national" M/C. HOA's are typically local entities. They would deal with local management companies. There can be several developments owned by one builder/developer but they are still local.

This post was confusing to me. Are you saying that some other M/C is trying to talk your HOA's M/C into a contract for waste management? Why would they do that? M/C's are in it for the money, definetely NOT the glamour. So I don't understand where this other M/C has any business setting up contracts for your HOA.

Something is strange here. Need more details than what you provided. There are alot of scam artists out there. I can't judge if this is another one. I would definetely be wary of the situation.

Former HOA President
Jadedone4
(Virginia)

Posts:495


07/15/2007 7:02 AM  
Melissa,

There are "national" HOA M/C's which basically "franchise" out, or purchase local M/C's - the name is still the local M/C's, but it is often list as "a XYZ company" as well. In respecting the etiquette of HOATalk I will not post the name of any national M/C's but they do exist.

It is the "parent" of our local M/C that is offering the four year trash contract, and at the 60/40 split of any savings that the HOA recieves on past and future contracts for trash removal.

The originally posted questions still stand...

Has anyone been in such an contract/arrangement...?

What is the benefit of this, if in fact services are duplicated (the local M/C is supposed to do contract administration, and performance criteria, so why have/pay another company to do the same)?

Isn't 48 months (four years) too long to enter into a contract?

Is the trash removal industry so corrupt that this "spin off" of the industry is necessary to protect HOA's/consumers?

Am I missing something beneficial to this type of agreement?
HaroldS1
(Arizona)

Posts:314


07/15/2007 5:57 PM  
Melissa - where have you been? There is even an international management company - First Service - with HQ in Canada, and about 8 different named units in the US. For instance operating as Rossmar and Graham here in Arizona. Harold
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:4532


07/15/2007 7:19 PM  
I am in the state of Alabama. We haven't gone "National" yet on anything except for banjos and pork rines.

Former HOA President
PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347


07/16/2007 6:32 AM  
Jadedone4: I am not familiar with what a 'national' HOA M/C is, or even what a 'Waste Removal Consulting Program' is.

What would be the advantage or disadvantage to have a national MC do the negotiating and managing (w/commission?) of trash for the HOA, rather than for the Board to contract with a local waste removal company with which you would have direct contact at all times?

Is the national M/C an umbrella company for the local M/C in the area?
Jadedone4
(Virginia)

Posts:495


07/16/2007 6:38 AM  
Paul to answer your question (and still respect the requirement here not to post company names), the "national M/C" services HOA and Condo's and other situated communities.

It is a "parent" company for the local M/C company.

The "parent" company stated the "Waste Removal Program" terms and conditions, however the local M/C stated that they are not part of this program's "management."

I agree that the board can (and should) solicit bids/RFP's from local companies on their own, so that we have competition.

I was just unsure as to what "advantages" existed with this program, and concerned because it was a four year committment.

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347


07/16/2007 6:59 AM  
Jadedone4: Thanks for your reply. It would seem, if the parent company is offering you a Waste program, they should also in their sales pitch present you with the advantages of signing with them as opposed to your direct contract with a local vendor. I take it you have secured bids with local waste vendors in your area or networked with like communities to learn how their waste disposal is being handled.

At the very least for your HOA...the more hands in the pot, the more to be paid out....
Jadedone4
(Virginia)

Posts:495


07/16/2007 7:16 AM  
Paul,

As you have stated "the more hands in pot, more $$ paid out..." No, the parent or local M/C have not presented any "guarantees" of lowered costs. What they have "promoted" is that other communities, nationally, have benefited from involvement in this program (stating that the average monthly savings was about $400). The "benefit" is that that national M/C brings in resources that the local M/C may lack in negogiating, contract administration, and audits. They argue that the "split" (60% to HOA, 40% to them) is enough to motivate the community to use their services. My concern (to dove-tail Melissa's analogy) is has the trash removal industry become so abused that you need to have additional layers of audits to assure/protect against overcharges/billing? Has it become a "Sopranos" type of operation, where you need to have such diligent oversight?

On the separate bids, we were not presented with any from the local M/C - which prompted more questions than answers. This program's package was all that was presented to the board - and when asked the M/C stated that they "could" solicit other bids if we wanted. M/C went so far as to contact current trash collection contractor and advise that contract would not "auto-renew" and that solicitations for bids would take place (but did not report this to board).

The other "advantage" that they offered was that the community would not have to worry about contract during those four years with trash removal. They would contact the collections company with any disputes (actually the wording was such that it was greatly frowned upon for anyone other than them to interact with trash collectors).

As with all types of businesses, you have levels of services... McD's is fast food on the go, Applebee's is sitdown when you don't want to cook, and Ruth Chris' is cloth-napkin, special occasions. So too are HOA contracts, there are some communities which want fast food levels, and other that want cloth-napkin service, but ALl should have the ability to interact (through the board) with contractors.

GloriaM
(North Carolina)

Posts:829


07/16/2007 2:32 PM  
Wow, so you pay the MC and now pay the MC's waste dpet., what's next the MC landscaping dept., the MC's pool management dept., what a way to rake in the money.

Personally, I find it a conflict of interest, IMO.
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