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KlydeM
(Virginia)

Posts:3


09/19/2010 10:46 AM  
Over the past couple of months, I have received a couple e-mails from the HOA in regards to the behavior of my tenants' kids. Apparently the kids run around the neighborhood and are generally just causing trouble. I am the owner and have just received these letters/emails from the HOA president, but never a fine.

However, yesterday I got a letter once again through email summarizing the issues and as well as "recommending" termination of their lease and calling for their eviction.

I know the kids misbehave, but the thing that gets me is that I haven't received any fines. I would think I'd start getting fines and then finally a letter calling for eviction.

Can the HOA force me to evict my tenants? I read over the HOA rules and there isn't anything about forcing eviction, but it does say the usual stuff such as if the covenants are broken, the owner will get find.

I want to help the community, but at the same time I feel I can't evict my tenants without some sort of proof that they are breaking the rules.

Thanks.

JonD1
(New York)

Posts:1638


09/19/2010 12:23 PM  

Klyde:
Are you kidding?

The HOA has sent you "several" e-mails and still you have done nothing?

Perhaps the President is hoping you get the message and take some action?
Perhaps HOA thinks you have enough common sense to do the right thing for the other residents on the property where your rental is located?

Perhaps the HOA thinks if YOU were in that position you would hope the owner of the unit would act to resolve the problem mentioned in "several" e-mails.

And if you continue to do nothing maybe your concern over not being fined will take care of itself too. Then you can complain about the fines.

"I want to help the community, but at the same time I feel I can't evict my tenants without some sort of proof that they are breaking the rules."

This statement makes no sense. You want to help the community but have done nothing. And then the old "BUT" which suggests you can't act because you need some sort of proof about their behavior. Guess the "several" e-mails don't fit your requirement.

Really amazing folks like you decide that the neighbors should be subjected to this sort of behavior and when the HOA or Board President takes the time to contact you, you don't have the ability to see what needs to be done.

Maybe if this sort of behavior was going on next to you, you might get it. Or maybe you would feel right at home.

Guess those living on the property deserve no consideration as long as the checks keep coming in.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


09/19/2010 12:38 PM  

Klyde,

Are you an absentee landlord or do you live within a reasonable distance to your property. You need to take some action- NOW!!! Get over there, talk to the tenants. Tell them exactly what the complaints are. Tell them that they are put on notice that the association is not happy and will force an eviction if the kids continue to be a problem.

There are probably noise, peace and enjoyment rules or restrictions some place in your HOA documents. The Board will have the right to enforce this. WHY ARE YOU WAITING TO BE FINED? That one makes no sense to me.

This is a perfect exaple of why some communities want a NO RENTAL policy. It isn't the renters, it is the lack of responsibility of the owner in allowing tenant bad behavior. You need to take action before the Hoa does.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


09/19/2010 2:09 PM  

Snake,

You make a good point but I would like to assume that if the Board has gotten complaints about the kids, they should have or hopefully did look into the validity of the complaints. Because they have sent out multiple letters, let us assume that they have looked into the complaints.

If they had not and the landlord goes to the unit, he will most likely see the kids sitting in chairs with their halos all aglow. All States have tennant eviction laws and these also do come into play but tenants do not have the rights to be breaking laws, even if they are HOA rules. In the end, the owner is resonsible for complying to the rules, be it him or anyone within his unit.
JonD1
(New York)

Posts:1638


09/19/2010 2:54 PM  
"I know the kids misbehave, but the thing that gets me is that I haven't received any fines. I would think I'd start getting fines and then finally a letter calling for eviction."

So we can take the HOA's actions as confirmation OR the quote from the unit owner as it appeared in the original post. Both seem to suugest the HOA has the correct unit or isn't making false accusations.

Seems they know themsleves there is a problem but would rather dwell on the reason why they have not been fined or working on how to best serve the members of the community.

Does their lease list kids? Then maybe it's time for the property OWNER to be pro-active and respond. Or spend more time coming to0 webistes such as this and looking for direction.

Serving on the Board does have its moments.

KlydeM
(Virginia)

Posts:3


09/19/2010 5:39 PM  
Thank you guys for the replies, they are helpful.

I do live very close to the property and have told my tenants since the first time I was contacted by the HOA about the violations they have been accused of as well as the consequences (I told them that if I get fined, they will pay and they are aware of this scenario). Since the day they moved in, they have copies of the HOA documents and rules.

The kids are basically running around the neighborhood when the parents aren't home with another group of kids from another unit and doing thinks like trampling gardens, staying out late at night at the park, littering, etc.

When I spoke to my tenants (I have done so each time I have been contacted), I told them about the consequences and their response to me is that yes their kids are bad, but other kids also join in. The HOA President also received this response from them, but he said that my tenants' kids are pretty much the loudest so that's why other kids follow them.

I do agree that if these statements are true, then they should be evicted. However, I have no proof other than 2 letters from the HOA President. This is why I mentioned the fines. If I was to get a fine, then that would be a formal charge and I would approach my tenants with it as a reason for them to be evicted. I don't have anything like this except the letters.

I would definitely like to discipline the kids, but that's probably not even legal.

What should I do? I want my tenants to stay at least until their lease is over at the end of March, but I also don't want their kids to continue.

Thanks for the help.
SureshD


Posts:0


09/19/2010 6:15 PM  
Good Job Snake,

I read the first several posts prior to yours and began having the same thoughts.

Unless he has an agreement with the HOA, e-mail is not an appropriate means of communication on such matters.

Klyde, ask to see the complaints filed so you can evaluate the situation and then YOU decide what to do with your tenants.

Unless they can produce documentation indicating they can suggest let alone force eviction just ignote that. But be advised depending on your documents they do have the ability to cause you stress. As others have said... you are responsible to the HOA for you property.
JonD1
(New York)

Posts:1638


09/19/2010 6:18 PM  
Klyde:

Thanks for taking the action of speaking with your tenants.

That was certainly a first step.

But it seems to have little affect on the behavior of their kids.

So I would suggest it is time for plan B.

Getting involved with the upbringing of these kids would not be my plan B.

More than likely they have had no guidance in their lives and as you suggest are allowed to run wild.

I would suggest YOU contact the Board or Board President and explain to them your need for some concrete proof that your tenant needs to be evicted due to the behavior of their kids.

Perhaps they can work out some scenario that would work for you and get the action they would hope solves this problem.

In any event I would not hold out hope to allow these folks to remain till March as your units neighbors may have had enough of this already. If their behavior did not change then IMO it is time for them to change their address.


Good luck.

KlydeM
(Virginia)

Posts:3


09/19/2010 6:28 PM  
Thanks for the reply,

I've looked over my documents last night and the HOA Rules document doesn't mention anything about how the HOA has the right to force eviction (or suggest it). It just says that all residents must abide by the rules of the HOA or be subjected to fines and parking suspensions. My tenants are aware that if I receive a fine, they must pay me back for it.

I just spoke with my tenants on the phone and also forwarded the recent letter to them. They basically said that they feel their kids have been quiet the last couple of weeks ever since the last letter and that when they are outside, it's with a group of kids.

See the thing is that I don't know whether the entire community feels the same way about the kids or maybe it's just the person writing the letter from the HOA that has something against them.

Thanks again guys for the continued advice.

MaryA1


Posts:0


09/19/2010 7:04 PM  
Klyde,

You say your tenants kids are running around with other kids in the neighborhood; trampling gardens and making noise. (Don't all kid make noise????) I wonder what the BOD is doing about those other kids. If their parents own their homes they certainly can't make them move. So, I don't think they have the right to request that your tenants be evicted. If the kids are vandalizing assn property they should be made to pay for the damages. I, too,find it strange that if the tenant's kids are such a big problem you haven't received a violation notice and a fine. For whatever reason, many people just don't like renters and this may be the problem with your board. It's just easier to require you to evict them than to deal with the situation.
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2803


09/20/2010 12:17 PM  
i read this and saw several things, some already mentioned, which i won't repeat.

One thing i see is a board that MIGHT have no enforcement power, no fine ability, or no real rule that the people are breaking.. thus, a couple letters to the owner about being a good neighbor, doing the right thing, fixing the problem, etc.. But if the board can't cite a rule being broken, or the board has no right to fine, then letters of suggestion are their only recourse.

I suggest the poster reply to the board with a clarifying request: what CC&R's exactly are being violated, can the board provide examples and details of what is being done to violate them, and even better, dates/times/actions. He should indicate a willingness to work with the board, to be a good neighbor, but not committ himself to evicting anyone, or taking any specific action (other than the generic "i will look into it, or i will talk to them").

IF the board can provide the regulation and evidence, that will help the landlord when the decision to evict comes up. If there is no evidence or no regulation being violated, then the landlord's hands are tied... so the tenants have brats for kids.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:4879


09/20/2010 1:04 PM  
Klyde, we suggest owners need to get rid of renters but have no authority to initiate eviction. Under the HOA's governing documents we can fine the owner until the fine amount is sufficient to encourage the owner to act.
RZ
(Arizona)

Posts:51


09/21/2010 5:37 PM  
The board has no business suggesting evection, espessially when no other measures have been taken. This is a great example of the board overstepping it authority.

In short, as stated by others, the board has no standing the matter of evection. In fact, I would think this opens the board up to some liability. It is really no different than the HOA suggesting an owner sell their home and move because of the kids.

No one here knows if the board’s accusation has merit or not. That is not the issue. The issue is this; does an HOA have the standing to suggest in writing that an owner evict his tenants (solely because a member of the board has made a personal determination that the kids are ill behaved)? Not an appropriate way for the HOA to handle the situation.

It actually seems like one lone board member is having inappropriate communications with the owner.


That's my opinion anyway.





JonD1
(New York)

Posts:1638


09/21/2010 8:03 PM  
"The kids are basically running around the neighborhood when the parents aren't home with another group of kids from another unit and doing thinks like trampling gardens, staying out late at night at the park, littering, etc.

When I spoke to my tenants (I have done so each time I have been contacted), I told them about the consequences and their response to me is that yes their kids are bad, but other kids also join in. The HOA President also received this response from them, but he said that my tenants' kids are pretty much the loudest so that's why other kids follow them."

What part of this did you miss????????????????

Maybe the Board President is trying to "guide" this owner in the right direction and save them the fines. Gee who would have thought of that.

But maybe the owner can wait till the fines start and when they become larger than the monthly rent the message might become more clear as Roger suggested.

Some people learn quickly some take a little longer.


DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


09/22/2010 5:43 AM  

I don't understand all of the posters who are suggesting that maybe it isn't the kids but a Board who is acting irresponsibly in enforcing a rule against bad behavior and disturbing the peace and quiet of the neighborhood.

As a landlord (4 rentals)if I get just a hint or any tennant having an issue with the rules, I am on their doorstep before the ink is dry on the letter. IT IS IN THE LEASE!!! that any written complaints from the association will be looked into and the Landlord has the right to enforce the HOA rules including the right to remove. Kids can be disruptive and most times, I friendly sit-down with the parents will ease the problem but as the landlord, it is your job to handle all issues with your tennants. The buck stops there.

The Board has the responsibility to take all complaints into their scope and investigate them. If they do their job, they will have documentation as to what is being complained about and what steps they have taken to resolve this. It seems that they have by sending letters. Klyde, why would you want to wait for a fine? If you get fined, then your chance of resolving this becomes harder because the Board now has the upper hand.
SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


09/22/2010 6:47 AM  
Like Donna said, there should be something in the lease that explains the consequences of any violations against the owner for the actions of the renter. This is an issue between those two.

However, the HOA should have put violatons in written form and even noted that action in the minutes. Emails just don't get it.

If fact, to evict, you have to prove the reason why, so written violations will be needed for the court.

The original question was if the HOA can force eviction. The answer is no. The only pressure would be on the owner.
SureshD


Posts:0


09/22/2010 7:06 AM  
The discussions have drifted away from the question posed by the OP:...

..."Can the HOA force me to evict my tenants?"

The HOA has not been proven thus far to have such authority so the answer is NO (at least not directly).

They can fine, sue, etc. making eviction tempting but cannot dictate how the owner gets his tennants to comply.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


09/22/2010 9:35 AM  

Klyde,

"Follow the terms of the lease
You and the landlord must follow the terms of the lease. The only way you can be evicted before your lease is up is if you do not obey the terms of the lease.

See VRLTA Section 55-248.8

"Obey the rules and regulations
A landlord may from time to time, adopt rules or regulations about your use and occupancy of the apartment. Only rules that meet the standards in Section 55-248.17 of the Virginia Landlord Tenant Act are enforceable against you.

I would reccomend that you look up Section 55-248.17 of the VRLTA act.
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