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CheryleB
(Colorado)

Posts:1


04/29/2009 9:59 AM  
I have a question about adopting a rule to limit number of people in a condo or rental unit. We have experienced too many people occupying an unit. The owner was notified and didn't believe us. The problem usually occurs with rentals over 30 days. Has anyone else adopted rules like this?
Cheryle
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:757


04/29/2009 10:51 AM  
We don't have a rule regarding the number of people in a unit, but your local health or building department may have some rules about that - check and see. If the owner is violating a city or county ordinance, perhaps you can file a complaint that way. You should also put something in your CCRs about this - be sure you follow the rules on how such amendments are to be made.
MaryA1


Posts:0


04/29/2009 1:04 PM  
Cheryl,

The BOD should adopt a rental policy that all property owners renting their units would have to abide by. In the policy it can be stated the number of non-related persons who can occupy a unit.
JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:288


04/29/2009 4:46 PM  
In a HOA when you have more than 10 percent renters the development becomes a mess
AnneH2
(Florida)

Posts:82


04/30/2009 4:43 PM  
Posted By MaryA1 on 04/29/2009 1:04 PM
Cheryl,

The BOD should adopt a rental policy that all property owners renting their units would have to abide by. In the policy it can be stated the number of non-related persons who can occupy a unit.




I agree. Leasing guidelines should be put into place.

Another provision to include is % of renters VS owner-occupied units. There is a tipping point for FHA loans with reference to the percentage of rented VS owner-occupied units, so that should be included in the guidelines. I can't remember what the percentage is- maybe someone on this site would know.
MaryA1


Posts:0


05/01/2009 10:01 AM  
Anne,

It's a HUD rule (Section 234(c) of the National Housing Act) that only applies to condos.

If the Condo is on the approved condominium list, 80% of the HUD-insured mortgages in the condo project must be owner-occupied. If the condo is not on the list, then the lender can go through the "spot approval" process which requires at least 51% of the condos in the project to be owner-occupied.

JaniceM1
(Georgia)

Posts:27


05/07/2009 8:20 AM  
#1- Check your local code.
Municipalities typically have a limit on nonrelated individuals living under one roof.
The county I live in limits the number to 2 nonrelated persons. In addition, our CCRs state the entire property must be leased, this prohibits "room rentals".

Janice
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


05/07/2009 8:46 AM  
Posted By JaniceM1 on 05/07/2009 8:20 AM
#1- Check your local code.
Municipalities typically have a limit on nonrelated individuals living under one roof.
The county I live in limits the number to 2 nonrelated persons. In addition, our CCRs state the entire property must be leased, this prohibits "room rentals".

Janice





Wow. Janice. I find that a little hard to believe! (Not that you are fibbing, but that they are trying to get that intrusive!)

I wonder how they parse that?

For example, if I'm living with my friend, and I have a daughter, but my friend doesn't, well, we already cross that threshold - 3 people, only 2 "related."

Never mind if I had 2 kids!

And, for the record, I did live with two girlfriends (as roommates) for a period of time between my Starter Husband and my Keeper Husband. My daughter lived with me, too. So we would have been SOOO outside the "code"!

We split the rent 3 ways. It was awesome (on the budget).

In our municipality, there is no restriction on "relationship" of boarders to each other.

There are, however, strict living space requirements per person and per child.

Kitchens and eating spaces cannot be used as living space (or sleeping space).

Children of opposite gender cannot occupy (for sleeping space) the same room.

There must be X number of bathrooms per X number of people. That sort of thing.

But to specify a relationship, married, blood or otherwise. Don't think that would fly in most places.

But I could be wrong!
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


05/07/2009 8:58 AM  

I disagree with you John. If you have 10% of bad landlord/owners, then you have a mess. Tenants always get a bum rap when you generalize like that. It ain't so. It is who the landlord rents to, how he monitors his tenants, how he obeys rules himself and if he appreciated his investment.
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


05/07/2009 10:25 AM  
Cheryl,
First, I will assume you are a condo.
In my opinion and you will find differences from state to state.
2. Use the search section at top right of this page, plug in renters, or rental restrictions, something like that. Lot's of stuff there.

3. I doubt you can legally write a rule to do what you want to do. It will require an amendment to your coventants. That will require a vote which will require a certain majority for passage.
I would make sure yoiu ahave all your associations documents and any state statutes.

4. It will take considerable effort, but if you are in a resort area with short term rentals, you need a policy and you need it current and enforceable.

5. I would suggest you look around your area at other condo's similiar and see what they have on books and always pick and choose those requirements that fit your association.

6. Try some of this and see if it helps and get back to us.
MaryA1


Posts:0


05/07/2009 10:43 AM  
Janice,

Are you certain the county code doesn't pertain to rentals?
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


05/07/2009 10:45 AM  

Roger, Oh Roger, where art thou? Roger will know this one for certain.
RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164


05/07/2009 12:49 PM  
For Mary,
I posted that any rental policy would have to be an amendment. I know for sure ours would as we have a rental policy in our by-laws. To add or change that would require an amendment. I am not being critical of your advice or any other, but it feels to me a "policy" would not have the weight of a by-law.

If there was nothing in our docs that address it, I still say look at some example of others that have it on the books, and tweak it from there. I would post our Rental clause but it's not near as strong as it should be. But it is due for an update, which brings up how important it is to update them once in a while, especially now.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:4861


05/07/2009 12:57 PM  
Posted By DonnaS on 05/07/2009 10:45 AM

Roger, Oh Roger, where art thou? Roger will know this one for certain.


Sorry Donna, I don't know for certain. There are several considerations as have been mentioned. I just turned a lease/rental amendment over to an attorney 2 days ago for a townhome association which will try to amend their Declaration after 31 years with no changes. I believe an amendment on this would be one more thing which might cause the amendments to not be approved; and there are more seriously needed amendments which need to be approved. So I believe, for this HOA, it would be better to put lease/rental limitations in the Rules and Regs. Items like: owner required to provide copy of lease agreement; lease agreement to state and agree that owner provided governing docs to renter and is liable for all fines created by renter; and owner shall provide names of all residents, plus their contact info, vehicle info, etc.

In summary, if there is not a high lease/rental problem an amendment which includes lease/rental limitations should be considered. Meanwhile, if there already is a high lease/rental percentage approval of an amendment probably most likely could not be achieved.
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


05/07/2009 1:02 PM  
Posted By MaryA1 on 05/07/2009 10:43 AM
Janice,

Are you certain the county code doesn't pertain to rentals?




Mary, even if it does, our local code does not ever use as a variable "relation."

In other words, it's always about number of people, square footage, gender, etc. But never (and should never) be about whether there is a legal family relationship.

Now that I think about it, my daughter would not be allowed to rent an apartment in that case.

She has 3 children. 2 by her first husband, one by her current significant other. She has not and probably will not marry him.

So that means that there are more than two unrelated people living in her house.

For a while, before they bought their home, they were sharing a 4-bedroom townhouse with one of her coworkers, 2 boys in one room, 1 boy in another, my daughter and her SO in a room, and the coworker in the last bedroom.

They lived in that configuration I think for a little over a year while they were saving up for their deposit.

JaniceM1
(Georgia)

Posts:27


05/07/2009 1:33 PM  
Come on people, can you keep up?
The topic title was "HOA Rules concering limiting number of RENTERS".
Of course my reply pertains to renters.
The county I live in limits the number of UNREALTED people under one roof, who are RENTING/ LEASING to two.
Believe it or not!
This is true for a lot of Metro Atlanta counties. They have this code to prevent multi family living under one roof (big crack down over the past two years).
I did research in one county (in Georgia) and their code specifies a "number of beating hearts per bedroom".
Because I state something, doesn't mean I agree with it (some I do, some I don't). Just providing (factual)infomation.
These codes are usually not for the people who are the "normal come and go people" they are in place to protect us all from the people who abuse them.
Look at your local codes and I bet you will find things you would never believe are there! LexisNexis

Janice
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


05/07/2009 1:45 PM  
Janice, I have looked at local codes. City, metro and statewide.

And the variables that come into play do not dictate whether the people living in any one unite are "related" or not.

As you mentioned, it's restricted on number of heart beats -- not whether those heart beats are blood or legally defined as "family" (related).

In fact, it doesn't matter if "related" or not, only x number of living human beings per x number of square feet is allowed.

They don't allow that number to get higher (denser) JUST because the other human being is a family member.

In fact, most of the abuse comes from family members or relations.

You can get a lot of extended family members (people who are related into one 900-square-foot apartment if one tried hard enough.

But the local codes preventing over-crowding address ONLY the fact that they are human beings, not whether they have a familial relationship.

For the record, I don't have a problem with that.

We had one home here in our subdivision that had two families living in it. There were two complete "households," including 2 sets of parents and 3 kids in one family and 5 in the other.

Guess what happened? Someone contacted our local zoning and code enforcement, they made an inspection and made them come into compliance.

They (zoning) didn't care who lived there, what their relationship to each other was, they only cared that the number of people, young and adult, conformed to their square-footage requirements (per gender).

In other words, they would not be allowed to have siblings of opposite genders reside in a single bedroom under x-number of square feet. If they were same gender, whether they were related or not, it would not be a problem.

The only thing I'm questioning in their code, which could likely be challenged, is the variable "related." Please keep in mind, I'm not questioning you.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:4861


05/08/2009 9:28 AM  
Read the article "WI Right to Rent" on the home page under today's HOA Daily News. I don't know the basis for the judge's decision but I would recommend tha rental restrictions be in the Declaration of CC&Rs rather than the Bylaws. I will be watching to see if this case goes the the WI court of appeals. If so, will it set a precident which other states might follow?
MaryA1


Posts:0


05/08/2009 3:51 PM  
Roger,

I agree that this should be a CCR restriction.

I took a peek at the article and it appeared to me the case has already gone through the Court of Appeals. The article was based on the WI Supreme Ct decision so it should be regarded as case law. The outcome is that the Assn had the right to include the restriction in the bylaws and also the right to adopt the restriction to prohibit rentals.
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