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PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:32


07/06/2018 5:35 AM  
You may find these forums helpful for the information you are seeking.


https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/forum.php

https://forum.freeadvice.com/

Many of the members are attorneys.

Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
TrishC
(Florida)

Posts:26


07/06/2018 5:47 AM  
Posted By PatJ1 on 07/06/2018 5:35 AM
You may find these forums helpful for the information you are seeking.


https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/forum.php

https://forum.freeadvice.com/

Many of the members are attorneys.




Thank you. I'll give it a try. The second link is about personal injury and that's not an issue I'm interested in. I already spoke to a lawyer about that. Hopefully, I'll find answers at the first link.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:32


07/06/2018 5:52 AM  
Posted By TrishC on 07/06/2018 5:47 AM
Posted By PatJ1 on 07/06/2018 5:35 AM
You may find these forums helpful for the information you are seeking.


https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/forum.php

https://forum.freeadvice.com/

Many of the members are attorneys.




Thank you. I'll give it a try. The second link is about personal injury and that's not an issue I'm interested in. I already spoke to a lawyer about that. Hopefully, I'll find answers at the first link.




You'll need to scroll down the page to locate the "Real Estate" portion of the forum.


Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
TrishC
(Florida)

Posts:26


07/06/2018 5:56 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 07/06/2018 4:14 AM
Posted By TrishC on 07/06/2018 4:03 AM

What are these other non-emergency things they come in for w/o notice?



No one knows. But we know it has been done in the past to others. I've never had a camera in my unit, so I can't prove that it was done to me also, however, when you have 4 out of 20 units proving with a camera they were visited and no reason is given, you have to conclude they are doing it to everyone also.
TrishC
(Florida)

Posts:26


07/06/2018 6:04 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/06/2018 5:14 AM
This is a classic manipulation... Notice when another issue is brought up, the conversation is diverted? What is so illegal of the HOA to provide Pest Control or the other issues the OP keeps bringing up? Don't see it. I don't fall for the old "I have health issues". Find 90 percent of the time that is a manipulation of a person to get what they want. Sounds mean but everyone here has seen it. If not, then you really need to buy my seaside land in Arizona.

The HOA having the alarm code? So what? Really? Guess what IF something is stolen guess who is my FIRST and ONLY suspect? Kind of widdles down the suspects doesn't it? Well only 1 person has the code... Gee then I wonder who the police should question first... I for one am NOT against the HOA having the code. It's 1 person who doesn't even live nearby. It's a silent alarm according the OP.

Guess because I've been on someone's list to respond to the "I've fallen and can't get up" alarms, have a different view. Personally, knowing that if I were to have an emergency, I know someone would respond would be a plus to me. The police charging money for responding is another factor. Overall, someone having my alarm code isn't a big bother to me and gladly give it to someone. Otherwise, I really wonder what the real issue is? It's not because you would not know who to suspect...




I really don't care what you believe. You are not a doctor, you don't have the qualifications needed to render a medical opinion.

PLEASE READ: I HAVE A DOCTOR THAT HAS CONFIRMED MY HEALTH ISSUES. It was my attorney who told me to have my doctor send the Assn, the Assn's atty, and the pest control company a letter. It worked. They stopped. Guess who was right? ME!

To prove theft, you have to prove that something was stolen and when it happened. I'm not in the habit of inventorying the contents of my unit on a daily basis. If someone steals cash or jewelry from a drawer, if someone steals a checkbook I rarely use, or some other thing, it could be weeks or months before I discover it missing. If someone invades my privacy by looking through my personal correspondence, including investment and other financial statements, then that's not stealing, but it's still an invasion of privacy.

The real issues is that I have a right to privacy and to not have my home entered without reason. Maybe you're happy living with an "open door policy", maybe it's because you don't have anything worth stealing or protecting.
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:525


07/06/2018 6:34 AM  
Posted By JenniferG11 on 07/05/2018 10:19 PM
I don't see a discrimination issue. Do you mean refusal to accommodate disability?



Yes, refusing to accommodate a disability, which is discrimination. HUD interprets disability very broadly.

I'm not saying there is discrimination, only that I think that would be the most likely lawsuit if someone sued. I don't think she or the owner could sue because of the demand to provide the alarm code because the demand does not cause any harm.
BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:525


07/06/2018 7:02 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/05/2018 11:32 PM
The HOA isn't involved in Landlord/Tenant issues. They are a 3rd party to that agreement. Their alliance lay with the member/owner. NOT the renters.

Let me ask the question this way... What if your HOA was presented with a lawsuit because an owner's tenant is complaining of health issues due to the agreed upon offering of services of pest control? Which Pest control is done for the health/protection/sanity of the members. Would your rather have pests in your home eating it and/or getting in your food? Which insects or rodents do carry much worse diseases. Isn't your HOA already participating in the health and welfare of their membership by having this service?

Plus most pest companies are very well aware of the health concerns/issues of their customers. Plus the risks of being sued for providing dangerous chemicals. Would they NOT be the one's who should be sued by the HOA/owner/renter for providing a service that causes health issues? Why is it the HOA's fault for providing a service the membership want for their property?

It would be a different story if the majority of owner's don't want the pest control services due to their health concerns for themselves or tenants. However, I am sure if the HOA was to stop this service there would be a HUGE complaint list. Why is the HOA stopping this service if it's something that is providing peace of mind from pests?

I am not being non-empathetic to someone's health issues. It's just that the reality is that the owner should request the HOA not spray their unit if possible. IF it's determined by experts (pest control) that skipping a unit puts all units at risk for pests, then the service is either continued or stopped for everyone.

Sorry but had to deal with some people who claimed "Health issues" when I put down some dog/cat repellent in an area where dogs were not allowed. I put up a sign and temporary fencing. They claimed it bothered their sinuses and threw a fit. (Mind you they were the one's letting their dog in the area). Well I stopped putting the repellent down but kept the sign/fence up to keep sending out the message keep your dogs out. Well guess what? They still complained about the smell and health issues... It had washed away and wasn't even applied. So no I don't bow down to those with "Health concerns" to change what is necessary.



Melissa, the alliance is relevant if the dispute is related to the association between owners. For example, if there is a covenant violation, the HOA should only deal with the owner because the renter is not party to the CC&Rs. However, anyone can sue the HOA if they have cause, such as negligence by the HOA that causes harm or illegal discrimination. As I mentioned before, the Fair Housing Act generally protects the resident, not the owner.
What the majority wants it is irrelevant in a discrimination case. HUD or a court will consider the big picture and how it affects the community as a whole, but if the HOA can reasonably accommodate a disability, they have to do so, even if 100% of the owners disagree.
I don’t think anyone suggested not spraying anywhere for bugs, that would not be reasonable. Reasonable accommodation means coming up with an alternative that prevents pests while not adversely affecting the OPs health issues.
My response was to the person stating that he would basically ignore the issue and try to drive the renter out. I hope you agree that is a very bad idea.
All I’m saying is that the board should communicate with the renter and owner to come up with a solution, not dig in their heels.

BenA2
(Texas)

Posts:525


07/06/2018 7:16 AM  
Trish, you can also contact the Dept. of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). Each state has an office and they are the ones responsible for enforcing the Fair Housing Act.

The same goes for board members who have questions. This forum is good for getting differing opinions but no one should get legal advice from strangers who may, or may not, know what they are talking about.

https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/field_policy_mgt/localoffices
TrishC
(Florida)

Posts:26


07/06/2018 7:28 AM  
Thank you, the pest control issue has been resolved. They stopped spraying a few months ago.

I still have to go back to the allergist to be tested for the chemicals that the pest control company is using. That will be next week. The reason for this last step is to have irrefutable medical proof that I'm allergic to something in the bug spray. Right now all we have is a strong correlation (I have an allergic reaction hours after coming home on days that the unit was sprayed), we don't have causation. I want to have proof of causation in case it ever becomes an issue again, here or elsewhere.
JenniferG11
(Texas)

Posts:386


07/06/2018 7:28 AM  
Posted By BenA2 on 07/06/2018 7:16 AM
Trish, you can also contact the Dept. of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). Each state has an office and they are the ones responsible for enforcing the Fair Housing Act.

The same goes for board members who have questions. This forum is good for getting differing opinions but no one should get legal advice from strangers who may, or may not, know what they are talking about.

https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/field_policy_mgt/localoffices




She has the pest control part solved. I don't think HUD is going to answer about the alarm code, are they?
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4151


07/07/2018 12:08 AM  
Posted By TrishC on 07/03/2018 5:10 PM
I am a renter in an HOA condo in Florida. I have lived here for 10 years in peace and quiet.

However, either property management or the Association have lost keys to my unit twice.

The first time, I replaced the locks and gave them a new key. But this last time, I decided to install a security system instead.

Previous Assn presidents have been entering units in our condo for non-emergency reasons without notice. This caused a huge problem particularly with the past president, and he was voted out.

Additionally, they have been fumigating my apartment despite my allergies. I have ended up in the ER twice in the past 18 mos because of this.

So it seemed like a good idea to get a security system to prevent unauthorized access and stop the fumigation.

Now the HOA is asking that I provide them with an access code, even though the wording doesn't mention them. Seeing as how they have lost my keys in the past, and have also behaved improperly, I no longer trust them.

I have responded back to them that lack of an access code does not create a physical impediment to enter my unit in an emergency, and that the Declaration of Condominium makes no mention of security access codes.

The exact wording is:

In case of any emergency originating in or threatening any units regardless
of whether or not the owner is present at the time of such emergency, the
Board of Directors of the Association, or any other person authorized by it,
shall have the right to enter such unit for the purpose of remedying or abating
the cause of such emergency, and such right of entry shall be immediate, and to
facilitate entry in the event of any such emergency, the owner of each unit,
if required by the Association, shall deposit under control of the Association
a key to such unit.

I am okay with them having keys. But nowhere is an access code listed. Also, I am a renter, I am not the owner of the unit. I am not a member of the HOA.

So, do I really have to? Thanks in advance.


NOPE ... However, when your alarm goes off and you have to potentially start PAYING for the police to show up for any Emergency situation above and beyond what your contract states for your alarm system ... YOU cannot expect the HOA to reimburse you for any such costs if they were deemed a potential “EMERGENCY”. I would contend if they are entering for Non-Emergency and set off the alarm ... it could potentially be the HOA to pay. If you have had in the past non-emergency entries without notification ... I personally would be like you and tell them Bite Me. Potentially there is no reason for them to have the code if they are needing entry for any Emergency situation. I would argue with my alarm company trying to charge for a response when potentially my unit via such as a water leak was flooding other units ... sorry that would be an emergency.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:7535


07/07/2018 6:00 AM  
It is the police here that charges for responding to false alarms. If they show up on scene and there's not a real emergency, then they can charge a fee after a certain # of responses. It's the City that enacted this fining system to cut down on false alarms. So essentially it's a city fine that you can get summoned to court for. Alarm company may also have a similar policy about false alarms and how they treat them. It takes them additional work as well.

Now if the HOA gets hit with the bill for the police responding, they are going to send it to your landlord to pay. IF they don't get paid, then they can lien for this money against the owner. Which raises the amount owed and stays with the home. Most likely they will send the bill to your address to pay up or charge.

So be prepared to pay and face consequences for your actions. It's just how life works.

Former HOA President
TrishC
(Florida)

Posts:26


07/07/2018 6:23 AM  
Yes, the City gives you two free non-emergency responses per calendar year. They begin charging $50 at the third one, $75 at the fourth, $100 at the fifth, and $125 for the sixth and subsequent. ones. They can also charge $75 on top of that if the alarm cannot be turned off, (which is why I made mine silent) and $100 if you don't have a monitoring service (which I do). I can afford to pay the fines.

The monitoring service doesn't charge for false alarms. It's their job to call me before summoning the police. That is what I am paying for.

I've spoken to one of the BSO's and if they find someone in my unit and if they are not able to give a good reason for being there, I can press charges for trespassing against the PERSON(s) trespassing. If the person had a legitimate reason for being there, then they can take it up with the Court.
TrishC
(Florida)

Posts:26


07/07/2018 6:29 AM  
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/07/2018 12:08 AM

... I would contend if they are entering for Non-Emergency and set off the alarm ... it could potentially be the HOA to pay. If you have had in the past non-emergency entries without notification ... I personally would be like you and tell them Bite Me.



Yes, I can pass on false alarm fees to the HOA if they trespass or act against the Declaration, which grants me reasonable notice for non-Emergencies. Were it gets tricky is that I have to get to the third false alarm to be fined, and at that point I have to argue that I was charged because the HOA "wasted" one of my free false alarms. Would I bother for $50 or even $100? Nah. We all have money here.

GlenM4
(Tennessee)

Posts:88


07/11/2018 4:46 AM  
They don't need the code. Nothing says you have to give them the code.. IF they are allowed to enter for emergency, then there is no issue.. they can enter and the alarm will call police to help with the emergency.
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