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BarbaraD6
(Florida)

Posts:347

03/11/2010 3:02 PM
Last night at our board meeting we had a member talk for the entire meeting. The chair didn't ask her to be quiet so at one point the manager asked the person to be quiet, and the person continued to talk and make comments for the rest of the meeting. I talked with the chair and told her if this person acts like that again, you have to say something, you are supposed to be in charge of the meeting. I added if she ignores the request to be quiet kick her out of the meeting, and if she won't leave call the police. The chair said she will ask her to be quiet, but won't kick her out of the meeting, that we should just ignore her. This person talks and makes comments at every meeting she comes to.(she doesn't come to all the meetings) We had important business to discuss and it was a big distraction for the rest of the board and manager. What would you do if you were a board member at this meeting? thanks Barbara

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3229

03/11/2010 3:16 PM
Barbara, At the meetings I run, at the beginning of the meeting I acknowledge any visitor and remind them that they are welcomed to observe and will be given an opportunity to speak at the end of the meeting but that there is business the board needs to conduct. I've never had them continue to interject unrelated comments. However, if they do, I would remind them that an opportunity would be given at the end for comments. If this failed, yes I would ask them to leave or allow it to continue and address it after the meeting so it isn't repeated. It would depend on how interfering the issue is. If the visitor is there for a purpose. That issue is at the top of the meeting. After the issue is discussed, I invite the person to stay or, if they desire they may take the opportunity to depart (actually I say "have a life") while we conduct the rest of the meeting. Usually, the people depart as there issue was addressed. Tim

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

03/11/2010 4:30 PM
Tim, Barbara is in Florida, where every vocal(bigmouth) member is allowed to attend the entire meeting. If a member wishes to address the Board, they are entitled to request IN WRITTING, a chance (3 Minutes) to speak. Now, when you have someone like this woman who just is rude and thoughtless toward the other members and the Board, then she should be put on notice by someone. Be it a Board member or the P.M., she needs to be reminded of meeting etticate and removed from the meeting if she does not comply. No ifs, ands or buts, out she goes. Call a Deputy if nescessary. We did it once and never had any problems after that. Here again, why do we babysit people who act like rotten kids.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/11/2010 5:43 PM
You are right, decorum must be maintained. On both sides of the table Now for the funny. I know some HOA's need money but I never thought they would resort to requiring the homeowner to purchase some kind of a chance on whether they can speak for three minutes. Your: address the Board, they are entitled to request IN WRITTING, a chance (3 Minutes) to speak. I fully expect to be diallowed to ever be able to cross the border into FL

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

03/11/2010 6:07 PM
Robert, I surely hope that you said the above with tongue in cheek. As an ex Naval Officer, did you not have to request to speak to the higher powers? From Fl Statutes 720:303 (b) " Members have the right to attend all meetings of the board and to speak on any matter placed on the agenda by petition of the voting interests for at least 3 minutes. The association may adopt written reasonable rules expanding the right of members to speak and governing the frequency, duration, and other manner of member statements, which rules must be consistent with this paragraph and may include a sign-up sheet for members wishing to speak"

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3229

03/11/2010 6:16 PM
Donna, VA also requires open meetings and common courtesy says the person should be allowed to speak if they have something to add. I read Barbaras' post that the issue is more of the weak will of the person running the meeting. However, I believe in praising in public and reprimanding in private. Anyone who has taught a class or conducted meetings know that side conversations and unrequested comments happen. As we have all agreed, it is the responsibility of the individual presiding over the meeting to address it. It is also their responsibility to know when your beating a dead horse and move the topic along. Barbara hasn't had a chance to respond if the talking was related to the issue or side conversations. Therefore, I don't know if the person was being rude and thoughtless or if she was trying to get a point across about a topic that nobody wanted to listen to. Everyone who responded agrees that the person responsible to address the issue is the Chair. Based on what Barbara said to the chair, it appears that Barbara agrees with this. In my opinion, it should also be the chairs choice on how to address the issue. If the issue continues, perhaps the chair should be replaced. Tim

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/11/2010 7:20 PM
Donna, Yeah, I do tongue in check, foot in mouth, hands over eye, and head up my butt, all equally bad. I have asked for permission to come aborad, to leave the ship and to order too many shots and a beer. The only thing I fear is someday I might meet you face to face and get my a-- kicked. But I never had to take a "chance" if I wanted to speak. Is this take a chance something like the DMV office when you go in they give you anumber. But............I don't think I am ringing any bells so I will swear I didn't write any of this.

MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:431

03/12/2010 5:21 AM
Our current Board offers a Q&A period at the end of meetings. Our meetings have tended to be fairly quick. Everyone gets 3 minutes. (We generally don't actually cut people off, and for the most part they respect the time limit and try to keep it short.) This has worked pretty well. We get a few comments, but responding by asking people to wait for the Q&A usually quiets the audience. I think getting people to speak at the time set by the meeting agenda instead of when they want to react, has the effect of encouraging them think more and speak less (or at least less emotionally).

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/12/2010 5:55 AM
MichaelK, Not a critical observation, just an observation. Our Board operates pretty much along the same lines as yours, and it works pretty well, but only a few of us attend and we actually have two times during the meeting we can speak. At the beginning after meeting is called, we have 3 minutes and at the end of the meeting we get an additional 3 minutes. The later of course is to provide an attendee to comment on any Board action or subject covered that evening. I understand there is concern for out of control emotion at a meeting. I have a little problem with thinking everything should be considered without emotion. Many things bring up emotions, both board members and attendees or other owners. Personally I would rather see someone concerned and be emotionally than just ignoring the association. At a meeting or a chance meeting on the street, we all deal with emotions, and we pretty much can handle it. It does take skill and knowledge to hold a meeting together if things start to get out of hand. There are some that can do this effortlessly, it seems, and some that struggle, and some that just can't do it. Same with owners and their concerns. Our meetings are prefaced with a statement of the rules and I would believe the few regulars that go to these meeting are well aware of the rules and don't need to be reminded each and every time. To me this smacks of a "Boardish Practice." Something a Board will do because...........I don't know, because they are a Board maybe.

MaryA1

Posts:0

03/12/2010 6:14 AM
Barbara, Our board operates pretty much like Tim's. In AZ a member has a right to speak at board meetings and doesn't have to make the request in writing and also has the right to speak b/4 an issue is voted on. Our Pres asks, at the very beginning of the meeting if any member present wishes to speak -- if they are present for a particular reason, if so they can choose to discuss their issue at that time. Our Pres would never allow a member to take control of a meeting as your Pres did. If the Pres is incapable of chairing a meeting, then, IMO, that person should not be the Pres. Regardless of whether a member has a right to speak at a board meeting, they certainly do NOT have the right to take control of the meeting, be obnoxious and overbearing. I would have been kicking the Pres under the table and passing her notes to quiet this disruptive person!!

MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:431

03/12/2010 7:24 AM
RobertR, It sounds like you do the same things we do (except having the opening Q&A in addition to the one at the end). To what are you referring as a "Boardish Practice"? We also read the rules at the beginning. This Board does not generally shut people down or rule them out of order. We don't ask them to be robots. Having them hold their thoughts until the end results in more thoughtful and less emotional content. People still discuss the things they care about, but they have less opportunity to shoot from the hip or react angrily, and they phrase things better. Do you find you get the same result from this practice?

MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:431

03/12/2010 7:26 AM
Perhaps you need a "sergeant-at-arms"?

MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:431

03/12/2010 7:27 AM
To avoid confusion, that is to say: Barbara, Perhaps you need a "sergeant-at-arms"?

FranD
(Georgia)

Posts:100

03/12/2010 7:50 AM
The entire Board has the authority and is held liable for the consequences of the actions and failures to act! The Board has to become the aggressor to keep things in line. Have the President tell the person to straighten up and be warned that he/she will be removed if the action continues. If the board sits idly by and allows a misbehaving member to go unchecked, it could be viewed as an endorsement of the misconduct and it is in the minutes. Any member/visitor/attendee has to be on the Agenda to speak for three minutes, otherwise they are only there to observe the meeting. Our Board has in place rules to pass out to anyone attending the board meeting. If they don't abide by them, they are asked to leave. If on the Agenda, Our President/Chairman who is running the meeting acknowledges who they are and that they know they have 3 minutes on the floor to speak at the end of the Board meeting, otherwise we never get things done on the Agenda we have to discuss.

BarbaraD6
(Florida)

Posts:347

03/12/2010 8:14 AM
Tim, She wasn't speaking on any issue that was being discussed. She received a violation letter so she is claiming she is being "targeted" by the board and the manager. This is completely not true. Barbara

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

03/12/2010 10:28 AM
Barbara, It seems that every association has one of these types. She needs to know that she wil be removed if she continues to be disruptive. Has she paid her fine for the violation yet? My 55+ community had a guy in his 80s with a wife in her 50s, who tagged along with him to the monthly meetings. She was always in a drunken state and thought that we were having a social meeting, talking to everyone as loud a she could. The Board wrote a letter to the guy and point blank said that his wife was no longer allowed at the meetings until she could come and be quiet. Sometimes we have to get plain and simple and just say what needs to be said.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/12/2010 10:31 AM
MichaelK11, Oh sure, I think all Board meetings should be open, (except ES) and include opportunity for members to notice the Board of their concerns. I expect the opportunity to speak at start of meeting is to allow an owner to have his say and leave if so desiring. The one at the end is an opportunity for owner discussion about what came up in the current meeting. I think I coined this "Boardish Practice" term, and to me it appears some boards just feel they must act presidential and sometimes do things because that is the way they have been done in the past, some Boards also like to fall back into a defensive position about some item they take as an attack, and will assume the position, "it's a Boards decision.", or, "well that is what the Board has decided." They could be right, but I like reason better than edicts. No big deal, just a slight "poke" at the Palace Doors.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/12/2010 10:36 AM
Fran, Your: "The Board has to be the aggressor to keep things in line. Proactive yes, responsive yes. Aggressor......not so much, maybe never.

BarbaraD6
(Florida)

Posts:347

03/12/2010 12:25 PM
Hi Donna, She has just received her second notice, she will have a meeting with the fining committee next week.(which she announced at the board meeting that she will not attend) She informed a renter that they were targeted for being renters, so the renter came and complained too. (yes, the chair let the renter talk, for probably 20 minutes) This woman has always complained about everything.(every board,manager,neighbors and vendors)Just one of those trouble makers(she is 67 yrs old and acts like a 2 yr old) thanks for your response Barbara

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

03/12/2010 12:46 PM
Barbara, Two things come to mind. #1 She needs anger management #2, She needs to go volunteer at a kids hospital or a Veterans rehab center, something to make herself seem less important.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:3526

03/12/2010 2:21 PM
Posted By BarbaraD6 on 03/12/2010 12:25 PM This woman has always complained about everything.(every board,manager,neighbors and vendors)Just one of those trouble makers(she is 67 yrs old and acts like a 2 yr old) Old hippies don’t die, they move into HOA’s and continue to fight the “man”.

Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair. - George Burns

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