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DjG
(California)

Posts:3

03/01/2010 4:18 PM
I'm curious who takes and prepares your Association monthly minutes? Secretary, Manager, or other? We have a full time on staff Manager who attends all meetings. It seems like no one wants to do this duty. I really just wanted to take a survey of what others do. I'd also love to compare manager salaries & duties.

DanielH1
(California)

Posts:481

03/01/2010 4:39 PM
Our management company takes and prepares the minutes. In my old self-managed HOA, I was the Secretary so I took and prepared the minutes. Taking and preparing minutes is a dull job. You don't need to be a lawyer or a rocket scientist. If you are already paying for a manager, it is easy to punt it to them and save some of your personal time. We pay $12,000 or so a year. Our management company duties mostly relate to keeping the HOA legal but the contract is such that they are given quite a bit of latitude. They usually (but not always) narrowly construe the contract: they could take on more but choose not to. As people, they are gluttons for mindless, repetitive work and wiggle out of the tough, personal, community-building work. They are sort of like an not-so-good 1950's secretary: they just want to answer phones and take letters, not really solve HOA problems or show initiative. If you insist, they will do as you ask but, as soon as you let up the pressure, they will return to routine tasks and any ones that require initiative will grind to a halt. If the HOA starts to go downhill, they'll raise an faint objection but, if you argue with them, they'll fall silent and let the HOA fall apart.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/01/2010 4:53 PM
DjG, Ideally, preferably, by far is the secretary as a member of the Board. If no board member steps up, try and set a time each member should do it. As Glen says: A Wild a-- guess, your board is going to farm this out to the manager, then your board will not pay any attention to what goes in the minutes and by next year at this time, your manager is going to be leading you down the street, just a guess. Other people do it but you all have a problem, who do you think is out of step? Comparing salaries of managers is apples and oranges, for the most part and if you would find someone comparable, who would he/she be compared to. Can't be your manager because you don't know is they are earning their money or not. Don't take this as if I am jumping all over you, I understand you have questions about your job, why not use the search feature on this page and also look around on the links on this page. You will find out how to do this but not much on how not to do things. There is also different size HOA's to be considered but my remarks are for anything small up to a couple hundred, and that is a guess. If larger consider full time management, the the Boards task becomes see that the job is done right by everyone working for the Board.

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3229

03/01/2010 5:37 PM
Secretary takes the minutes. Self-managed. 1 bookkeeper @ 350/month

JackB8
(Virginia)

Posts:105

03/01/2010 5:52 PM
Our property management company get about $95 per year per home.I've researched this issue to the four winds and if you have a really active management company, which we do, you can expect to pay about that amount. Our property manager is awesome. Do share your findings on property management costs and duties with us please.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/01/2010 5:56 PM
DjB, You will notice the two reples recieved about salaries and duties probably will not fit your situation as you don't know what their situation is. How large is the HOA, what are their fees, how many board members, what are you amenities, do you have a pool, own the roads, even the question are you condo or HOA is not answered.

RichardP13
(California)

Posts:824

03/01/2010 7:38 PM
Daniel How many homes do you have in your Association. We have 317 and pay about over $60,000 a year.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/02/2010 8:44 AM
Now we have gone from "Who takes the minutes at the HOA meeting to" a question about what a manager gets, so far we have ranged from $95.00/unit to double that $189.00. How about another thread, if you want to try and compare apples and oranges.

MaryA1

Posts:0

03/02/2010 8:45 AM
DjG, Most assn's that are self-managed will, naturally, have the sec. take and prepare the minutes; assn's that contract with a mgmt co most often have the mgr perform this task as it most likely is part of the contract. My assn, which contracts with a mgmt co, pays a professional to take and prepare the minutes. She signs the minutes as "Jane Doe, Guest Recording Secretary for Ms. Susie Q, Board Secretary". She is also the recording sec for our City Council and various city Commissions and does a wonderfully professional job. I'm not sure how much the assn pays for her services.

DanielH1
(California)

Posts:481

03/02/2010 10:27 AM
We have around 45 homes for an out-sized $267/unit/year. Yee-haw!

FranD
(Georgia)

Posts:100

03/02/2010 11:05 AM
I am our HOA secretary and take minutes for the board and all HOA meetings. Anyone can request a copy of the minutes. HOA will not pay for these voluntary positions. For those who request a copy via email, I send it - for those who don't have email, they pay for a copy. I tend to leave he said she said out of it and stick to details because I am a detail person. Some say I take too many copious notes. Some get upset cause you leave their name out of the report so you can't win for losing. Throughout the meeting you will go back over all your notes and end up grouping things together. Your notes become owned by the HOA for any future audits if needed. Our management company doesn't offer taking minutes and do not attend any board meeting unless requested. You are right, hard to get people to volunteer for board positions but when we do, they criticize. Our management company gets $124 per month and do all financials, taxes, liens, letters, attend meetings, banking, proposals, drive through our neighborhood for violations, send out reports to board members, answers all HOA Covenant questions, in charge of contracts, pay all bills, have their own lawyers for lawsuits etc... lot involved so an HOA doesn't want to tackle this position.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5028

03/02/2010 4:25 PM
You have a job description for the manager, right? It should be stated there as to whether he/she takes the minutes. The Secretary is usually reponsible to make sure there are minutes of the meetings, no matter who takes them.

FranD
(Georgia)

Posts:100

03/03/2010 5:12 AM
Our manager is our management company - we have a President, Secretary, Treasurer, Advisor to Board (Pres from last yr) Social Chairman, and two other members at large with no titles plus we are bringing on board an ACC (architectural committee). Our paperwork and most everyones states the Secretary always takes the minutes at every meeting. We do have a board member who will take notes while I am gone, then I will compile them into minutes and talk with others that attended to finalize them.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/03/2010 5:53 AM
Does anyone record meetings and then transcribe minutes? If you could work something out about editing you could hire a professional to do it, and the tape could be preserved, which might be good or maybe bad.

FranD
(Georgia)

Posts:100

03/03/2010 6:05 AM
No one records anything. We would have to ask for approval due to it being called wire tapping. We are volunteers and no one cares about hiring someone to do it, let alone a professional. My real job gives me enough training to take the minutes.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/03/2010 6:29 AM
Fran, Are you saying recording a public meeting in Georgia is considered wire tapping? Suppose I am hard of hearing and wish to record the meeting, or want to record something I said? How do you know someone is not recording the minutes. Does your documents forbid it?

JamesC
(Maryland)

Posts:282

03/03/2010 10:53 AM
We pay our Recording Secretary (professional) $100.00 per meeting, and $1300.00 per year. The Annual Meeting is considered "two" meetings, since the regular Board Meeting is held after the Annual Meeting in May. We have a Secretary, and Treasurer who virtually have no functions. The MC handles all financial transactions. We pay $25,000.00 per year to the MC, and based on where our community is located, and what we have to offer, I have found out within the past few months we are being overcharged, by several thousand dollars a year. I have solicited three other MC's, and we will decide at this months board meeting about changing over to one who is more reasonable. Jim

FranD
(Georgia)

Posts:100

03/03/2010 11:03 AM
Wow, this would be nice but our members are too cheap to pay any volunteer. They don't realize this to me is the most important position from a legal standpoint. Why isn't your Recording Secretary the same as the Secretary and why doesn't your Treasurer do anything. Ours is busy. We have a management company but our Treasurer makes sure their financial records match up. I used to do it. I always found discrepancies and came up with many questions. Oh yes, your MC is way over charging your HOA. Just make sure if you get rid of the MC you have, you don't make them mad so if you have to fall back on them, you can. This is what we are having trouble with our landscape company because some want to change and probably shouldn't. Some do more behind the scenes that is very helpful and the new one might not. Depends on how many on staff they have and how much overhead they have.

JamesC
(Maryland)

Posts:282

03/04/2010 12:43 PM
We have found in Maryland, there are more then enough Management Companies who desperately want the money. Everyone I checked into kept calling, and calling to see if we had made any decisions. Since we were only required to have three bids, it was decided to only call the references (HOA's) given by the three with the best prices. One submitted a bid of only $9,018.00 per year, and comes with a very long list of communities they represent. Our current company has raised their fees over a thousand dollars a year, and wanted a 5% increase this year. No one had ever thought before about seeking other bids, but since I did not know of anyone getting a 5% raise, I decided to check around. Same exact services (guess the services provided by MCs are pretty standard) and almost two, and a half times cheaper. Our Scretary, and Treasurer feel if they volunteer their two hours attending a monthly board meeting they don't have the time to dedicate to anything else. Nothing against them, because I have lived in the community for over twelve years, and those two post were never active. Only to fill a position on the board. We have nine board members. Jim

FranD
(Georgia)

Posts:100

03/05/2010 5:43 AM
Sounds like your management companies want way too much for doing their job. Big bite out of budget. Hope your neighborhood is big. We have found whenever the company knows you are out quoting for bids, they will keep their original costs or match what you come up with. If your Secretary and Treasurer aren't doing anything, give them tasks or remove them. You don't need nine members especially when they don't care to help. You have this option in your covenant to remove them.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/05/2010 6:03 AM
Fran, Are you saying that Georgia Law allows for the Board to remove any other member of the Board that was elected by popular vote? The Board could change the documents by amending them with a special meeting, or if your documents specify there can be from (say) 5 to 9 members, then the board can probably set the Board members at a different number, but I suspect you would have to let the terms expire, I'm not sure. On the other hand I could be far off here as Georgia seems to have some different wordings in their state requirements, and I have been been shown wrong before in Georgia, in fact I have been proven wrong in nearly every state that has posted here.

FranD
(Georgia)

Posts:100

03/05/2010 6:31 AM
Yes, our Covenant states how to remove them. You can ask them to resign first but then if they don't, you can do this. Don't have info in front of me but I can get info for you Monday if you'd like to know more. I was just saying any given board doesn't need 9 members - seems too high. You can have others for certain tasks like different committees but that is different. Those committee members aren't on the board. Most HOA Boards tend to have exactly what they need plus couple extra for those who leave the board then they have a replacement.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

03/05/2010 6:44 AM
Fran, If you can find that reference I would like to see it. I agree, all boards have to tweak and adjust the operation of the association as they feel makes the best fit. Of course we all know covenants and restrictions have to be adhered to. I sort of suspect most boards figure out what they think will work and then try and find a legal way to allow them to do what they think is necessary. I believe that is why we have Boards instead of dictators. Keep in mind a five member board may work in a condo and maybe a seven man board might be required if it was an HOA. In any case these numbers are usually set by the declarant and adjustments might have to be made when the association is built out.

DonaldM3
(South Carolina)

Posts:132

03/06/2010 7:39 AM
When I used to be Secretary, I used to record every meeting to transcribe later. I found when you hand write minutes it is hard to participate in the meeting which is also your responsibility. I only had about 8 to 10 tapes so I was usually taping over board meetings of several months ago. The written version, once approved by the board is, after all, the legal record of what happened at a given meeting. I tried (not always successfully) to have the minutes transcribed within a week after the meeting. I then emailed them to the other board members for potential corrections and posted them on our web site as “UNAPPROVED MINUTES”. This procedure worked just fine for us. Our management company usually does not attend out board meetings but approved minutes are sent to them for safe keeping.

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