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SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/03/2010 10:31 AM
Hi All, My question is in our CCR's it states we have 4 Board Members. 1 comercial, 1 multi family , and 2 residental owners. We also have 3 Arch. Control Commitee members. Our problem is the Pres. has stated the A.C.C. members are also on the board and he's letting them vote as such. I felt that it would be a conflict of intrest in making major decisions. Help?!?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

02/03/2010 11:01 AM
Sally, From your brief statement "in our CCR's it states we have 4 Board Members. 1 comercial, 1 multi family , and 2 residental owners." there is no provision for other Board members. The architectural Control Committe are not Board members but should work under the Boards direction and control so IMHO--NO, they are not voting members of the Board.

SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/03/2010 1:39 PM
THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. AS YOU SEE THEY MENTION 7 BUT ONLY DECIDE HOW 4 ARE ELECTED. WE'VE ALWAYS HAD 4 UNTIL THIS PRES. THIS ISN'T THE ONLY LIBERTY HE'S TAKING. COULD THE A.C.C. BE ON THE BOARD TOO/ 3.04 Board of Directors. (a) Generally. The Association shall act through the Board. Prior to the Turnover Meeting, Declarant shall select all Directors. During the period when Declarant is selecting the Directors, Declarant may also determine the number of Directors, which may be different than the number set forth in subsection 3.04(b). From and after the Turnover Meeting, the number of Directors shall be as set forth in subsection 3.04(b), and the Owners shall select or elect the Directors in the manner provided in subsections 3.04(c) through (e), inclusive. (b) Number and Classification of Directors. From and after the Turnover Meeting, the Board shall be comprised of seven Directors, as follows: (i) There shall be one Commercial Director, selected or elected in the manner provided in subsection 3.04(c). (ii) There shall be one Multi-Family Director, selected in the manner and subject to the exception, provided in Subsection 3.04(d). (iii) There shall be two Single-Family Directors, elected in the manner provided in Subsection 3.04(e). Each Single-Family Director shall be an Owner of at least one Single-Family Lot.

DanielH1
(California)

Posts:481

02/03/2010 1:42 PM
Your best bet is to convince the President that he is misinterpreting the CC&Rs, either by yourself or with the support of other Board Members. But, if that doesn't work, it turns into that conundrum that lots of HOAs have. You know that a mistake is being made but it is NOT an issue worth launching a legal lawsuit over. Regrettably, persuasive argument and lawsuits are your only two ways to a solution. In theory, HOAs would be run in perfect alignment with rules but, in practice, sometimes results and action are more important than rule following. If you are ok with the current decisions being made, you might just let it go and let somebody else carry the fight. If this misinterpretation is causing poor decisions to be made, then wearing him down with insistent and friendly persuasion over the course of a few months is your best course.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5028

02/03/2010 1:56 PM
What does your subsection 304 say about the size of the board, after the delarant hands over?

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

02/03/2010 2:26 PM
For Mary, Donna and Michele. Care to comment about what the documents say about the number of Board members and according to documents who these Board members represent? There seems to be some differences as to who these members represent, It has been stated many times that the Board members don't represent collections of individual parts of the whole, the BOD can only represent the whole. You would think then that this structure is not the same. I would expect the President can not make a ruling that the ACC can be classified as Board members. That would require some amendments to the documents and they would have to conform to any applicable laws, state of official documents. The president does not control the Board, the Board controls the President and any decisions made by the board has to be exactly that, not a presidents decision. The president of an HOA/condo does not act unilatteral and the Board can replace him by a simple vote of the majority of the Board. If the Board members do not accept their responsibility, they can be replace for cause by a simple vote of the majority, if a reason is even required. If the president insists, I would make a motion at a board member that the president be censored by the board for cause. I would make sure that a vote was taken, it was recorded and a roll call vote is conducted. Get it in the minutes then seek legal advice from your association lawyer by making a motion that a formal legal be proposed by your legal advisor.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

02/03/2010 3:21 PM
Robert, Very confusing but Sally also did not quote her 304 which seems to hold the clue as to how the 3 extra BOD are selected, elected or appear. So until we hear back from her, we only have 1/2 of the information needed. I still see only 4 bODs from 303. You are right in that the President cannot make the 3 ARC committee people into Board members

SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/03/2010 3:32 PM
THIS IS 3.04 IN IT'S ENTIRITY. THAN IT GOES INTO TERMS OF DIRECTORS, BY THE WAY YOU ALL ARE AWSSOME AND THANKS FOR YOUR IMPUT. THIS IS HELPING.(c) Selection of Commercial Director. The Commercial Director shall be selected by the Owner of the Commercial Lot. If there is more than one Owner of the Commercial Lot, such Owners shall together be considered a single Owner with respect to such Lot for purpose of this Subsection 3.04(c). If the commercial Lot is divided into two or more separate Lots, each one becoming a separate commercial Lot, then the Commercial Director shall be elected by a majority vote of the Owners of such Commercial Lots. (d) Selection of Multi-Family Director. For so long as there remains one Multi-Family Lot within the property, the Owner of such Lot shall select the Multi-Family Director. If there is more than one Owner of the Multi-family Lot, such Owners shall together be considered a single Owner with respect to such Lot for purposes of the Subsection 3.04(d). If the Multi-Family Lot (or any portion thereof) and the Improvements thereon are a Condominium and if a condominium owners' association has been formed with respect to such Lot, such association shall act as its Owner for purposes of this Subsection. If the Multi-Family Lot is divided into two or more Lots, each one becoming a separate Multi-Family Lot, then the Multi-Family Director shall be elected by a majority vote of the Owners of such Multi-Family Lots. If all or any portion of the Multi-Family Lot is subdivided into Single-Family Lots, then the Owner(s) of such Single-Family Lots shall have the same rights to participate in the election of the Single-Family Director as have the Owner of other Single-Family Lots. If all of the Multi-Family Lot is subdivided into Single-Family Lots, then the Multi-Family Director position shall be eliminated from the Board, and the Board shall consist of one Commercial Director and two Single-Family Directors. (e) Election of Single-Family Directors. Each Single-Family Director shall be elected by majority vote of the Owners of the Single-Family Lots, with each such Owner having one vote for each Single-Family Lot owner. If there is more than one Owner of any Single-Family Lot, such Owners shall together be considered a single Owner with respect to such Lot for purposes of this Subsection. The election of Single-Family Directors pursuant to this Subsection shall take place at a meeting of the Owners of the Single-Family Lots conducted pursuant to Subsection 3.04(f). (f) Meetings of Owners. Any meeting of Owners for the purpose of electing Directors pursuant to this Subsection 3.04 shall be conducted in accordance with the following procedures: (i) The first such meeting shall be held at least 30 days prior to the Turnover Meeting, on a date selected by the Secretary. Subsequent meetings shall be held at least 30 days prior to the expiration of the term of any Director or, in the case of a vacancy pursuant to Section 3.06, within 30 days after such vacancy occurs. (ii) Any such meeting shall be held at a place within Multnomah County, Oregon, designated by the Secretary. The Secretary shall give written notice of any such meeting to each Owner entitled to vote at the meeting at least ten but not more than 30 days prior to the date of the meeting. The notice shall state the purpose, time and place of the meeting. The Secretary shall be required to notify an Owner of a meeting only if such Owner has previously given written notice to the Secretary setting forth such Owner's name and address. Notice of any meeting may be waived by an Owner at any time. No Owner who is present at a meeting may object to the adequacy or timeliness of the notice given. (iii) Any Owner may give a proxy to any Person, so long as the proxy is in writing, signed by such Owner, and filed with the Secretary. A proxy shall expire on the earlier of (A) eleven months after the date of the proxy, or (B) the date of sale of the Owner's Lot by its Owner.

SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/03/2010 3:42 PM
THIS MIGHT HELP ALSO 3.14 Officers of the Association. (a) Designation. The officers of the Association shall be the President and the Secretary, both of whom shall be elected by the Board. The same person shall not concurrently hold the offices of President and Secretary. The Board may designate such additional officers as it deems appropriate. (b) Election. The officers of the Association shall be elected annually by the Board and shall hold office at the pleasure of the Board and until their successors are elected. If any office becomes vacant, the Board shall elect a successor to fill the unexpired term. (c) Removal. The Board may remove any officer, at anytime with or without cause. (d) President. The President shall be a Director and shall be the chief executive office of the Association. The President shall preside at all meetings of the Board and, unless otherwise provided in this Declaration, shall have all of the general powers and duties normally incident to the office of the chief executive officer of an association. (e) Secretary. The Secretary may, but shall not be required to be, a Director or an Owner. The Secretary shall keep the minutes of all proceedings of the Board and all other Association records and shall attend to the giving of all notices pursuant to this Declaration or required by law. The Secretary shall be responsible for the collection, deposit, and disbursement of Association funds and shall keep full and accurate financial records and books of account showing all receipts and disbursements of the Association. The Secretary shall perform all other duties incident to the office of secretary of an association or as may be directed by the Board. The Secretary shall perform all of the foregoing duties at the expense of the Association. (f) Compensation of Officers. Other than reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenses incurred on behalf of the Association, neither the President, the Secretary, nor any other officer of the Association shall receive any compensation from the Association for acting as an officer

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

02/03/2010 4:50 PM
Sally, This whole thing has got so much wrong with it I don't know where to start. It gives the president the same powers as the Executive Officer of an association. The president is the officer of this association, what are his powers? Why ,they are the same powers he has as executive officer of an association. Beam me up Scottie. In any event it will end up the President has no power, the power is in the board, they elected him, not to run the board but to represent the Board. In other words do what the Board tell him. He should provide leadership, knowledge and guidence and advice or suggestions. He should serve as the spokesman of the association if the Board decrees. Then we have all this complicated arrangments of how to select representatives of the various fractions, single family, commercial and multi family. Very specific rules are spelled out in how the selectees are picked and then voted on by the appropriate membership groups. But let one of them drop out of the picture through design or recall for cause and the Board ups and selects a member of the association for a replacement. No mention of what pool this selection is made. That means you have the specific members voting for their specific representatives and if that don't work out for what ever reason the board steps in and supercedes the requirements of the documents and picks Board members. Dollars to doughnuts this whole process was designed by the developer to whatever reason, but it probably had something to do with control and/or the bottom line...money. How big is this place anyway, how old, how solvent, is your reserve funded. what do you do if a commercial unit goes belly up, what if they all go belly up. Is there a club or other amenities involved with this, golf course, tennis courts, common properties. I am sure there are lots of things I am missing here, but I would want some real unbaised evaluation of the the overall financial picture of the whole, and some qualified resource (lawyer) to serve the Board until some report is made referencing the general well being of the whole, and a critical report of the governing documents. I would imagine, as is the case in most states, all that is required to be an association is to register at the court house, file your documents, meet all state or county requirements and, there you go , you are one. No one really vets these documents as to legality. The associations stumble around for years ignoring the documents because they don't work, then one day they are forced to amend the discrepancies. Some never get around to it, and some of this group, over a period of time do a pretty good job.............some don't.

SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/03/2010 8:39 PM
Thanks the scariest thing is we attended a meeting last Sat. after 1 3/4 hrs of the Pres. patting himself on the back over some sidewalk repair he finally let the owners speak for 3 min. I earlier posted on this web site issues on fences. He is misrepresenting a CCR that has many owners angry, enough as to get a special meeting of owners and a Quorum and hopefully kick him out. He has fined us $250. and when I asked him if the fine would be held until the special meeting ,He and his wife informed me , The board had already decided and, they can and will come on our property and cut our '20'- 7yr.old-23 excelsior cedar trees that line our back yard inside our fences. In the meeting he also told everyone any solid row plantings would also be a lot line barrier and can't be over 6' .So you according to him could have three or more lot lines, one owner made him repeat it cause we all were dumbfounded. He has taken a small sentence in the fence CCR and made a new hedge violation. The only ones running and making decisions for all of us are the Pres. and the secretary, the other 2 have admitted to me they don't get involved in residental stuff. I'm really scared and will be moving if he isn't stopped. I mean whats next??. He's also stated we have $100.000 in our accounts and is comming up with some stipid ideas as to spend it.Here is the fence CCR. tell me what you think is means? 5.06 Fence. No fence shall exceed six (6) feet in height from the finished lot grade on the highest side. In no event shall side yard fences project beyond the front walls of any Residential Unit or other dwellings or any garage, except as allowed by the Architectural Control Committee. Prior to construction designs of all fences must be approved in writing by the Architectural Control Committee. Fences along Cherry Park Road that have been installed by Declarant must be keep in good repair, and the design of the fences may not be changed. Lots affected are Lots 23-39 and Lots 10-22. Hedges or other solid screen planting may be sued as lot line barriers subject to the same height restrictions as fences. No building wall, fence, paving, landscaping or construction of any type shall be erected or maintained by any Owner of a Lot so as to trespass or encroach upon the Common Areas.

HB
(Oregon)

Posts:143

02/03/2010 9:41 PM
Posted By SallyS2 on 02/03/2010 8:39 PM The board had already decided and, they can and will come on our property and cut our '20'- 7yr.old-23 excelsior cedar trees that line our back yard inside our fences. In the meeting he also told everyone any solid row plantings would also be a lot line barrier and can't be over 6' . Hedges or other solid screen planting may be sued as lot line barriers subject to the same height restrictions as fences. No building wall, fence, paving, landscaping or construction of any type shall be erected or maintained by any Owner of a Lot so as to trespass or encroach upon the Common Areas. I wouldn't rule out that he is interpreting that last paragraph correctly. Without seeing what they look like, if the trees in your backyard are a "solid screen planting used as a barrier", then I would have to agree that they should not exceed 6' in height. Were they planted prior to the HOA? Did the prior Board just look the other way? As for the # of Board members, I only read that 4 must be elected from specific types of owners. Unless there are restrictions on the other 3 Board members, they could be from any of the owners. Also, unless your documents say otherwise there may not be any restrictions about Board members also participating on the Architectural Committee. It isn't ideal, but also not necessarily wrong.

SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/03/2010 10:51 PM
If you'll notice the 5.06 refers to fences and the materials one can use to determend the property line. If hedges were to also be a restriction wouldn't the hedge sentence been assigned a number like all the other CCR's? The next one is 5.07 Offensive Actitives? 5.06 Fence. No fence shall exceed six (6) feet in height from the finished lot grade on the highest side. In no event shall side yard fences project beyond the front walls of any Residential Unit or other dwellings or any garage, except as allowed by the Architectural Control Committee. Prior to construction designs of all fences must be approved in writing by the Architectural Control Committee. Fences along Cherry Park Road that have been installed by Declarant must be keep in good repair, and the design of the fences may not be changed. Lots affected are Lots 23-39 and Lots 10-22. Hedges or other solid screen planting may be sued as lot line barriers subject to the same height restrictions as fences. No building wall, fence, paving, landscaping or construction of any type shall be erected or maintained by any Owner of a Lot so as to trespass or encroach upon the Common Areas.

SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/03/2010 10:54 PM
He also leaves out words TO Prove his point such as- used as A LOT LINE BARRIER !

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3229

02/04/2010 1:23 AM
Sally, Based on what you posted it sounds like your documents are treating the Association as any other corporation. A Board of Directors is elected by the members. The Board appoints the officers (on an annual basis). The President, per your documents, is runs the Association as the office has the same powers as the CEO of a corporation (on behalf of the Association, they may sign contracts, hire/fire employees, perhaps take out a loan) The President also serves at the pleasure of the Board and may be removed by the board at any time. Although, many may not agree with this methodology (I don't) it doesn't change the fact that this is what your documents say. This goes back to a previous topic where I said what is legal to do is not always the right thing to do. What are the choices of the Board? 1. Remove the person from the office and replace them with someone else (perhaps you will volunteer). 2. Change your governing documents that limit the power of the office. 3. Do both (which is my suggestion) As for the specifics of who is a voting member of the Board: Only those directors who have been elected or appointed (to fill a vacant seat) should have any vote in a action requiring a vote at the Board meeting. Since, I expect, your board meetings are open - anyone may attend and, if invited to do so, join in on the discussion and recommend policies on any topic. However, only the Board may vote on the issue. Hope this helps, Tim

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

02/04/2010 3:15 AM
Tim, Let us all be cautious when we start extrapolating what we think is real and what is real where the issue is being addressed. Certainly, we All are guilty of this, and some times the best way to provide help is to flood the thread with a whole array of answers and let the OP pick and select what fits. The assumption that the President of an association has specific duties based on some non-comittal remarks and declaring these duties are spelled out in the documents or apply in all circumstances is best approached cautiously. My documents say the President of our association shall serve in the same capacity as the CEO of a corporation, much the same as this thread. In my case this Corporation is referring to a non-profit corporation and it turns out, if effect, the President of our association has little or no power to act, unilaterally. This may or may not be true in Oregon or Virginia. The concept that an elected by the Board president carries some sort of unequal power on the individual, that allow this person to do what ever they want is just not justified. Particularly in a condo the Board answers to the members, considered to be the whole of the association. The president has one vote on the Board, that's all. It is an equal vote. The president can and should speak for the Board, not in place of the Board. The president can not be recalled by the members, he can only be recalled as a member of the Board. The Board can not assign the responsibility of their position to any other member or any other member of the Board. We see examples of the President playing dictator all the time. I would have to see this kind of action verified by some state statute or in the documents of the association. I seriously doubt the black and white is there. If anyone has any authoritative state law that applies to HOA's or any authoritative references in their documents, they should post them. The power of the president in HOA's and in non-profit is to advise and suggest direction to the Board. In effect the power to conduct meeting is not a whim of the president, the meeting are conducted by the president under mandates of the membership evidenced only by the vote of the members. Any Board member can be elected President by the members of the Board, the Board has no authority to bestow power, only elect the officers of the Board. The duties of the officers are detailed, or should be detailed by the governing documents and the suggestion that the president is omnipotent is just not substaniated. There will be differences from state to state and association to association, but none that I have seen that conveys some unequal authority to individual Board members. Let me add this. If you wanted to sue the association for misuse of association funds, evidence by poor bookkeeping, who would you sue? The President, the Board, the Treasuer, the M/C. I think you will find you have to sue the association and prove your intent to lay blame by specific evidence. Look at all the foreclosures appearing in the papers, it is always the holder of the Mortgage (Plaintiff) sues the individual mortgagee and the Association............not the Board and not the President. or the M/C.

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3229

02/04/2010 6:09 AM
Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM Tim, Let us all be cautious when we start extrapolating what we think is real and what is real where the issue is being addressed. Certainly, we All are guilty of this, and some times the best way to provide help is to flood the thread with a whole array of answers and let the OP pick and select what fits. Point taken. Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM The assumption that the President of an association has specific duties based on some non-comittal remarks and declaring these duties are spelled out in the documents or apply in all circumstances is best approached cautiously. I did stipulate that I based the comment on the posting. I should have included that it also depends on State/Federal laws. Again, Point taken. Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM My documents say the President of our association shall serve in the same capacity as the CEO of a corporation, much the same as this thread. In my case this Corporation is referring to a non-profit corporation and it turns out, if effect, the President of our association has little or no power to act, unilaterally. This may or may not be true in Oregon or Virginia. The concept that an elected by the Board president carries some sort of unequal power on the individual, that allow this person to do what ever they want is just not justified. Particularly in a condo the Board answers to the members, considered to be the whole of the association. True. However, depending on State Law and Association Documents they might also be able to perform the functions I mentioned without board approval and/or if done without board approval - because they have authority to speak/act for the Board - any contract signed might be binding. I don't know. I am not a lawyer. However, I do see the potential harm if there is no limitations set on the President or any other officer. Based on your posting, your State law for non-profit corporations places limitations. I hope your Association documents do as well. I'm in the process of trying to address these type of issues in my association. Again, your initial point is still taken. Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM The president has one vote on the Board, that's all. It is an equal vote. The president can and should speak for the Board, not in place of the Board. This is true. It doesn't always happen but should. Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM The president can not be recalled by the members, he can only be recalled as a member of the Board. This is also true. Although I did not specify that the members could not recall the position of the president, I did specify that the Board had choices. Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM The Board can not assign the responsibility of their position to any other member or any other member of the Board. Except that in the absence of the President, the Vice-President can (and should) perform those duties. Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM We see examples of the President playing dictator all the time. I would have to see this kind of action verified by some state statute or in the documents of the association. I seriously doubt the black and white is there. If anyone has any authoritative state law that applies to HOA's or any authoritative references in their documents, they should post them. The power of the president in HOA's and in non-profit is to advise and suggest direction to the Board. Virginia's non-stock Corporations Act, § 13.1-852.1 provides the authority for the Association to " Transfers to one or more members, directors or other persons all or part of the authority to exercise the corporate powers or to manage the business and affairs of the corporation, including the resolution of any issue about which there exists a deadlock among directors or members" Granted, if one reads the full act, it must be unanimous and set forth in the Governing documents (which isn't likely to happen unless it is established when the HOA is being developed). However, based on my interpretation of VA law, it is possible! Goes to the mantra "know your governing documents and applicable laws" Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM In effect the power to conduct meeting is not a whim of the president, the meeting are conducted by the president under mandates of the membership evidenced only by the vote of the members. True. However, depending on the Associations governing documents and/or State law - any office may or may not be limited in what is mandated by the members. Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM Any Board member can be elected President by the members of the Board, the Board has no authority to bestow power, only elect the officers of the Board. The duties of the officers are detailed, or should be detailed by the governing documents and the suggestion that the president is omnipotent is just not substantiated. I agree with this statement because you said the powers "should" be detailed. As you know, this is not always the case. I believe everyone here has seen badly written documents that don't clearly state what can and can't happen. I believe that everyone that posted has commented on how poorly it appears Sally's Association documents may be written. Badly written documents create gray area. It's usually within this gray area that someone with a strong personality steps in (probably for the good, at least in their mind) to address it or interpret it. If this person is not challenged it gives the impression of omnipotent. In my experience, the person might not be the President but just someone who has served on the board for longer than any of the other board members. If not challenged and done long enough, these duties/powers [although not specified] becomes part of the position. That is to say until someone actually does question them. Once questioned - the individual may give them up or fight tooth and nail to keep them. Posted By RobertR1 on 02/04/2010 3:15 AM There will be differences from state to state and association to association, but none that I have seen that conveys some unequal authority to individual Board members. Truthfully, I haven't seen that either. It may be possible that Sally's might but that would depend on the actual wording of all of her documents and applicable State law. Again, your original point taken. However, this non-challenged interpretation or addressing of gray area I have seen and, unfortunately, seen a lot. I hope no-one else has. Tim

SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/04/2010 12:46 PM
I'm confused are you saying the owners can't remove any one? We have 203 homes and have over 60+ owners signed on a petition to resolve this fence issue and remove the Pres. and possible the A.C.C too. One of the A.C.C. had the nerve to get on the committee to pass and install a 2ND drive way for his R.V. using the wheel chair ramp.He's been turned into the city which is going after him and another owner doing the same thing As I've stated a few times only 2 board members are running this assoc. The Pres. and the Sec. (the pres. is also her handyman- she's elderly) Please Help me ! 3.14 Officers of the Association. (a) Designation. The officers of the Association shall be the President and the Secretary, both of whom shall be elected by the Board. The same person shall not concurrently hold the offices of President and Secretary. The Board may designate such additional officers as it deems appropriate. (b) Election. The officers of the Association shall be elected annually by the Board and shall hold office at the pleasure of the Board and until their successors are elected. If any office becomes vacant, the Board shall elect a successor to fill the unexpired term. (c) Removal. The Board may remove any officer, at anytime with or without cause. (d) President. The President shall be a Director and shall be the chief executive office of the Association. The President shall preside at all meetings of the Board and, unless otherwise provided in this Declaration, shall have all of the general powers and duties normally incident to the office of the chief executive officer of an association. (e) Secretary. The Secretary may, but shall not be required to be, a Director or an Owner. The Secretary shall keep the minutes of all proceedings of the Board and all other Association records and shall attend to the giving of all notices pursuant to this Declaration or required by law. The Secretary shall be responsible for the collection, deposit, and disbursement of Association funds and shall keep full and accurate financial records and books of account showing all receipts and disbursements of the Association. The Secretary shall perform all other duties incident to the office of secretary of an association or as may be directed by the Board. The Secretary shall perform all of the foregoing duties at the expense of the Association. (f) Compensation of Officers. Other than reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenses incurred on behalf of the Association, neither the President, the Secretary, nor any other officer of the Association shall receive any compensation from the Association for acting as an officer

SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/04/2010 12:55 PM
We have also tossed around having an outside company to run the Assoc, we as owners can't seem to find anyone who can't handle power or is only to pass their agendas on. As for the A.C.C. member being in the board wouldn't it be a conflict of interest if they wanted their drive way passed and a member said no then this A.C.C. wouldn't come back to over ride as being a board member and get their way ??

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

02/04/2010 1:06 PM
Sally, To answer your question about a Board member also being on the ACC. The correct policy would be for a Board member requesting a decision from the ACC on his personal item, would be for him to abstain from voting. I also think that having any ACC decision being made for any committee member is a tough call for others who may not want to upset or decide against one of their own members. But as adults, wouldn't you think that a decision could be made because it is the right decision? It's the nature of the beast to get all in a huff if we don't get our way so we have that always in the back of our heads. Having personal agendas is something most of us all have in one way or the other but keeping the community's best interest in mind will be the people that we should be seeking out, be they paid contractors or members on the Board. My own HOA has a Board member as liaison to the ACC committee, who does not have voting powers but acts as the Board's eyes and ears. In a larger community, this helps to bridge the usual communications gap.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

02/04/2010 3:42 PM
Salley, I can't see where you are confused if you just take a small enough bite of the apple. Don't load your plate down with such a load you can't lift it. Take a small step at a time. Get your support to recall the Board and take charge of the association. Then start the long process of making you association better. How long is your mortgage, how about your neighbors and his neighbors? You have time, you need resolve, and you need organization. Don't do this if you can't be better and that goes for all your supports. No doubt it can be done, no doubt it will be hard, and long, and frustrating, and no doubt this is just another of those life things that are worth it after all is said and done. Can you all do it? Who knows? But the real question is? Can you not do it? Only do it if you must.

SallyS2
(Oregon)

Posts:36

02/04/2010 5:19 PM
Thanks Donna,Daniel,Susan,Tim,H.B.,and Robert All the info will help us a lot and Robert your right one step at a time. We are lucky in the fact we have so many neighbors getting involved although it's bitter sweet to have so many owners upset and down right angry at what's happened to this assoc. Hopefully we can get the gray areas cleared up and a more mature group of owners in these important positions. We still don't know if we should go ahead and pay the fine on this made up hedge violation or take the late fee until the meeting and hopefully removal of these people. We've never be notified of your right to vote being taken away. What a mess Thank You All I'll keep you posted

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

02/04/2010 7:13 PM
Sally, Rgards any pressure your group feels about the hedge thing, at this point I would write the Board a certified letter and be nice about it and request a hearing before the full Board to discuss the charges. Suggest a time within a ten day period that hearing be granted. Ask that theyu notify you when it would be convient to schedule the meeting. Propose agenda for the meeting and list who your representative would be and include everyone that suports your effort to recall the Board, although I would not bring the subject up. One other approach is to get a laywer to write the lettrer on their stationary and request the same thing. You just pay the lawyer to write the letter and get it mailed and signed for. This is also good business, shows honest intent, the request is reasonable and it won't break your bank. It will put anyone interested on notice you are willing to try and resolve any misunderstanding. Pose your letter to include you all have questions about the Boards intentions and need clarification of the letter you received. Tell them you look forward to a hearing before the Board. I would not be surprised that your documents don't refer to requesting a hearing before the board, but no matter, the request is reasonable, and if properly worded, shows your intention to cooperate.

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