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Subject: Put it on the Ballot?
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Author Messages
PeterB1
(Florida)

Posts:257


10/25/2009 4:01 PM  
We have had a request from an association member to add an item to the Annual Meeting Agenda. He has the right to do that and the Board will OK that request.

He also requested that the item (a request to modify the HOA Covenants) be placed on the ballot (same meeting). This becomes problematic. Is the Board required to put any requested item on the ballot? Suppose someone says he want a vote on painting all the roofs pink or to close the roads at lunch. We would like to not put frivolous items on the ballot. But, who would decide that?

The ballot issue is not covered by our governing documents. Nor does it seem to be covered by FL statute. Would it be acceptable to have the Board 'screen' items before they are placed on the ballot?

Do you allow any and all items to be place on the ballot? How do you handle?

Thanks!!!
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


10/25/2009 4:43 PM  
Our documents require either the board of directors to put forth an item on the ballot (say, a proposed amendment), with our without membership input . .

OR if a member has secured a petition for a ballot items with signatures of 25% of all members (all those signing must be eligible to vote as of the date of their signatures -- members not in good standing are not allowed to vote).

The ballot item must be mailed to the membership 30 days prior to the meeting at which the votes will be counted.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


10/25/2009 4:44 PM  
The point of my above post is to indicate that your documents probably do specify.

It would be covered in the section that discusses the process for amending your documents.
PeterB1
(Florida)

Posts:257


10/25/2009 5:03 PM  
Michele,

Been thru the docs. It is for sure, not there.

Appreciate your input.

peter
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


10/25/2009 5:16 PM  
So your documents give absolutely no process for amending the CC&Rs?

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


10/25/2009 5:31 PM  
Our documents say that a PROPOSED bylaw coming from a member be submitteed 90 days before the Annual Meeting to the Board. The board then investigates the item to see if it is conflict with any other document or law, if it is feasible and legal. The board can then give its "blessing" or recommend defeat. But it is put before the membership as a motion at the meeting.
MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:432


10/25/2009 5:50 PM  
For comparison, our governing documents have a process for amendment (as I'm sure most do), but that only specifies voter percentage (90% for Covenants/Deed Restrictions and 50% for Bylaws). I suspect this is fairly standard.

There are also provisions for calling and noticing meetings of the Membership. Meetings must have at least ten days notice and no more than 30 days, and the notice must specify the purpose of the meeting. The rest is left to the Board, who sets the agenda. There is no requirement to put any particular item on the agenda or on a ballot. Notices usually don't provide an agenda, but specify if it is an Annual Meeting and if Directors are to be elected.

I believe a responsible Board would give pretty much any Member a few minutes on the agenda to speak on any topic that may be legitimate HOA business. At that time, the Member could make a motion before the Members present for a vote. A Board could also refuse time for anything they did not want to hear (wisely if inappropriate and improperly if just contrary to their preference) and could call any motion out of Order. Usually the President of the Association chairs the meetings and would make such calls during the meeting at own discretion.

If amending your Covenants entails a process that cannot be accomplished at meeting (90% of eligible votes usually cannot be obtained at any meeting); then the Member could move at the meeting for a vote to send a ballot on his amendment, and the Members would then pass or fail that decision. If the Members pass it, then the Board would be obligated to send another ballot for the amendment. If the amendment process requires the vote but not the meeting, then the Board would not be obligated to call another meeting -- just to mail the ballot and to tally and abide by the results. But if that's the case, it may be simpler for the Member to just send his own ballot and/or canvass the neighborhood for signatures.

My opinion is that it's generally better to allow items on the general HOA ballot, if they are legitimate HOA business (even if the Board believes they are frivolous or silly). An additional item shouldn't cost much, and homeowners can make up their own minds. If the Board thinks it is foolish and does not wish to appear responsible for presenting it, you can ask the Member to agree to a note that it is presented at his request. The Board could even indicate a recommendation against the amendment. You can try to talk the Member out of it. Please tell us if you perceive any potential harm from this amendment. What is it, anyway?
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


10/25/2009 5:57 PM  

Peter,
If your governing docs do not state how to place an item on the agenda, then you need to refer to the Statutes. I copied 3 sections on getting items placed on the agenda.

NOTE; ANNUAL MEETING "(meeting of its members annually for the transaction of any and all proper business)" THIS MEANS ANY BUSINESS!!!

720;306 (2) ANNUAL MEETING.--The association shall hold a meeting of its members annually for the transaction of any and all proper business at a time, date, and place stated in, or fixed in accordance with, the bylaws. The election of directors, if one is required to be held, must be held at, or in conjunction with, the annual meeting or as provided in the governing documents.

NOTE: BOARD MEETINGS:"(to speak on any matter placed on the agenda by petition of the voting interests for at least 3 minutes. The association may adopt written )

b) Members have the right to attend all meetings of the board and to speak on any matter placed on the agenda by petition of the voting interests for at least 3 minutes. The association may adopt written reasonable rules expanding the right of members to speak and governing the frequency, duration, and other manner of member statements, which rules must be consistent with this paragraph and may include a sign-up sheet for members wishing to speak.

NOTE: Board Meetings; d) " (If 20 percent of the total voting interests petition the board to address an item of business, the board shall at its next regular board meeting or at a special meeting of the board, but not later than 60 days after the receipt of the petition, take the petitioned item up on an agenda. for at least 3 minutes )

(d) If 20 percent of the total voting interests petition the board to address an item of business, the board shall at its next regular board meeting or at a special meeting of the board, but not later than 60 days after the receipt of the petition, take the petitioned item up on an agenda. The board shall give all members notice of the meeting at which the petitioned item shall be addressed in accordance with the 14-day notice requirement pursuant to subparagraph (c)2. Each member shall have the right to speak for at least 3 minutes on each matter placed on the agenda by petition, provided that the member signs the sign-up sheet, if one is provided, or submits a written request to speak prior
PeterB1
(Florida)

Posts:257


10/25/2009 6:13 PM  
MichaelK11:

Good thought process. The 'proposal' is not frivolous, but it would affect the lot setbacks and lot layouts (too complex to explain). The issue is one of precedent. This proposal would never meet the 75% approval of the community. We are reluctant to see it get to the ballot - for fear that others will feel they can put things on the ballot also. BUT, we also don't want to appear that we are rejecting proposals out of hand.

I do like the idea of putting it on the floor at the Annual Meeting. If a motion for a ballot does not pass at that meeting, it would be dead.


Donna:

I have been thru 720 and as you note, it addresses only how to get an item on the agenda - we have no problem there.

But, note that the statute does not address getting an item on the ballot - that is the dilemma we currently face.


DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


10/25/2009 6:31 PM  

NO NO NO NO!!!. Items don't get put on the ballots. Names get put there. Amendments are a whole different ball game. To have an amendment to your documents, 20% of the membership must sign a request and present it to the Board. Then the Board prepares an amendment, usually with legal help. It goes up for a vote to the members and must pass by an amount which is stated in your Bylaws. (usually 2/3rds or any prestated number)

You must have how to amend your documents written some where. Look in your Articles Of Inc because that is where your Bylaws are written from to coincide with the Incorporation papers. If you don't have them, then you follow the below Statute

720;306 b) " Unless otherwise provided in the governing documents or required by law, and other than those matters set forth in paragraph (c), any governing document of an association may be amended by the affirmative vote of two-thirds of the voting interests of the association"


MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:432


10/25/2009 7:42 PM  
Posted By PeterB1 on 10/25/2009 6:13 PM
The issue is one of precedent. This proposal would never meet the 75% approval of the community. We are reluctant to see it get to the ballot - for fear that others will feel they can put things on the ballot also. BUT, we also don't want to appear that we are rejecting proposals out of hand.

I do like the idea of putting it on the floor at the Annual Meeting. If a motion for a ballot does not pass at that meeting, it would be dead.

But, note that the statute does not address getting an item on the ballot - that is the dilemma we currently face.
I did not expect to see anything in statue or documents requiring the BoD to place measure on ballot. I'm not familiar with the FL statutes, but the 720 provisions we have seen in this thread only require that you listen to the Member at your Board meeting and make a decision. Unless there are other relevant provisions, it looks to me like you have authority to decide yes or no as to placing this on your ballot for the Annual Meeting.

The amendment is clearly legitimate business for the HOA Membership ballot. You are sure it would not pass. What harm?

Why not let anyone who wants to amend your documents request a ballot item. What harm? Are you worried that people will propose things that they could get passed, but would not be in your HOA's best interests? What has been presented here does not appear to restrict the Board from noting who requested a ballot item (a homeowner, not the Board) to show lack of support, or to even include a recommendation from the Board to vote against. Do you think adding ballot items may get expensive? That there could be a large number? You could always limit such items to a few per year.

Your posts don't suggest that you are worried about such things -- just that this seems out of the ordinary and you don't know what it might lead to. It is most likely to lead to people thinking that they and their neighbors got their say and were treated fairly by their neighbors on the Board, and maybe in retrospect what they proposed was not of much interest to everyone else. And if they do get the amendment, what harm then?

Your alternatives may lead to people thinking their neighbors on the Board are controlling little people with a little power. As volunteers making an effort to help out the HOA, who needs such attitudes and stress when they can be avoided. This could also lead to people sending their own ballots or trying to call their own meetings, if your documents allow for that. That sounds like more effort for them and for you to deal with, than just adding a ballot measure for the Annual Meeting. (If you think a separate ballot would be a more appropriate mechanism, then just suggest it outright, but I think opening up the Corporate Ballot would serve everyone better.)

It sounds like you are trying to find a reason to reject this without appearing to do so. From what you have said, I don't see the reason for going to that trouble. It could reduce your credibility and create unnecessary tension and schism.
SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


10/25/2009 7:51 PM  
Any vote on a motion that has a threash-hold requirement needs Notice to the Members, i.e. CCRs and bylaws.

Other than that, motions can be made and passed at the Annual Meetings, with a majority of those in attendance.
MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:432


10/25/2009 7:54 PM  
Posted By DonnaS on 10/25/2009 6:31 PM
To have an amendment to your documents, 20% of the membership must sign a request and present it to the Board. Then the Board prepares an amendment, usually with legal help. It goes up for a vote to the members and must pass by an amount which is stated in your Bylaws. (usually 2/3rds or any prestated number)
Donna, it's clear that the Membership must vote on an amendment (probably by a supermajority, depending on whether their Covenants specify this or leave it to statue). Doesn't that amendment need to be on the ballot to be voted on?

As to initiating and preparing it, I read the statute you quoted to mean that the Board is required to consider any business (including a proposed amendment) if petitioned by 20% of the Membership, but they are not required to pass such a measure -- just to consider it and allow the Members to speak. Also, they can decide to consider any business (including a proposed amendment) without such a petition.

I believe, depending on the nature and complexity of a desired amendment, the Board or homeowner(s) could write it themselves. They may also be well-served by having a lawyer draft it, depending.

Are there no provisions in 720 for the Members to pass a measure by written ballot without a meeting (and without Board involvement)? I would be surprised if that is not in there. Why could an amendment to Covenants or Bylaws not be presented, voted and passed or failed in this manner? Why would Members not do this if they thought they could raise the necessary support and if their Board chose to obstruct them?
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:4869


10/25/2009 8:36 PM  
Peter, I wouldn't allow any one person to add an amendment to the Covenants to the ballot. I would tell him he can make a motion at the Annual Meeting that the BOD will hold a meeting to amend the Covenant and if it passes the BOD will hold such a meeting.

If they complain I would point them to the Special Meeting clause in your CC&R's which if similar to ours allows a Special Meeting to be called to consider a specific matter of Association business. Ours says: Special meetings of the members of the Association may be held on any business day when called by the President of the Association or by the Board of Trustees of the Association or by members entitled to cast at least forty percent (40%) of the votes of the Association.

I would use whatever % your CC&R's or Florida law require for a Special Meeting to be the threshold for a member initiated change to the Covenants.

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." - Mark Twain
MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:432


10/25/2009 9:03 PM  
Posted By GlenL on 10/25/2009 8:36 PM
Peter, I wouldn't allow any one person to add an amendment to the Covenants to the ballot.Why? Glen, please walk me through your thinking on this.
Posted By GlenL on 10/25/2009 8:36 PM
If they complain I would point them to the Special Meeting clause in your CC&R's which if similar to ours allows a Special Meeting to be called to consider a specific matter of Association business.
Also, if not on the ballot for a regular (Annual) Meeting, why call another meeting, if this can be done by written ballot without a meeting? (IF -- I'm not suggesting all HOA's allow this in their governing documents.)

I think a Board should review the text for any amendment (with legal advice if necessary) to see if it does what is intended and is consistent with the rest of the governing document(s). I think this is another reason to just bring proposed amendments into the regular Corporate ballots, rather than tell Members to just do it themselves.
MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:432


10/25/2009 9:05 PM  
Rats! I did it, again.
Posted By GlenL on 10/25/2009 8:36 PM
Peter, I wouldn't allow any one person to add an amendment to the Covenants to the ballot.
Why? Glen, please walk me through your thinking on this.
Posted By GlenL on 10/25/2009 8:36 PM
If they complain I would point them to the Special Meeting clause in your CC&R's which if similar to ours allows a Special Meeting to be called to consider a specific matter of Association business.
Also, if not on the ballot for a regular (Annual) Meeting, why call another meeting, if this can be done by written ballot without a meeting? (IF -- I'm not suggesting all HOA's allow this in their governing documents.)

I think a Board should review the text for any amendment (with legal advice if necessary) to see if it does what is intended and is consistent with the rest of the governing document(s). I think this is another reason to just bring proposed amendments into the regular Corporate ballots, rather than tell Members to just do it themselves.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:4869


10/26/2009 1:53 AM  
Posted By MichaelK11 on 10/25/2009 9:05 PM
Rats! I did it, again.
Posted By GlenL on 10/25/2009 8:36 PM
Peter, I wouldn't allow any one person to add an amendment to the Covenants to the ballot.
Why? Glen, please walk me through your thinking on this.



Because if you do it for one then you need to do it for all no matter how far out the proposed amendment may be.

Posted By GlenL on 10/25/2009 8:36 PM
If they complain I would point them to the Special Meeting clause in your CC&R's which if similar to ours allows a Special Meeting to be called to consider a specific matter of Association business.
Also, if not on the ballot for a regular (Annual) Meeting, why call another meeting, if this can be done by written ballot without a meeting? (IF -- I'm not suggesting all HOA's allow this in their governing documents.)

I think a Board should review the text for any amendment (with legal advice if necessary) to see if it does what is intended and is consistent with the rest of the governing document(s). I think this is another reason to just bring proposed amendments into the regular Corporate ballots, rather than tell Members to just do it themselves.



Quite frankly in most Associations the turnout for the Annual Meeting is often so low the meeting cannot be held or they have to rely on alternate quorum requirements as to make the meeting possible but far, far short of enough to pass an amendment. By putting the onus on the person wanting the amendment to prove there is enough interest, you save the time and expense of the BOD doing it.

To use a topic that has been active recently: A few members of DeeS's HOA want the Covenant prohibiting aboveground pools rescinded. The BOD sent out a questionnaire asking the membership if they wanted the Covenant changed and got a lackluster response. Now why should the BOD invest time and money to hold a vote for something that is obviously not wanted at this time? Now they could be dictatorial about it and just say no or they can tell the people wanting the change that if they can bring them a petition signed by X% of the voting membership they will have the HOA attorney prepare the amendment and schedule it for a vote.

Also IMHO the ballots for an amendment should be treated different than the regular ballots which can be disposed of after a year or two. Votes on any matter concerning changing the CC&R's should be kept FOREVER. If ten years down the pike someone challenges a matter, you had better be able to prove that 75% of the homeowners did indeed amend the CC&R's to ban left handed people with red hair that were born in April.

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." - Mark Twain
MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:432


10/26/2009 5:08 AM  
Posted By GlenL on 10/26/2009 1:53 AM
Because if you do it for one then you need to do it for all no matter how far out the proposed amendment may be.
OK, but again, why? The Board has the authority to set such boundaries -- to determine "too far out" on a case by case basis, but why bother? The real and intangible costs for adding a ballot item to a ballot/proxy and notice that will be mailed anyway must be minimal. The real and intangible costs for telling people to deal with it themselves could easily be greater.

I think it is more likely the Board and the Membership would see problems arise from the latter than from the former. I think it is unlikely that Members would see one ballot measure and start using it as a comedy routine or dump a huge number of items on a future ballot; but if there are Members like that, they might do worse with a Special Meeting and such.

What's wrong with telling the Member he won't get anywhere by adding a ballot measure to the usual meeting notice, and then showing him if he insists. What's wrong with adding amendments as ballot measures and adding a note that this was requested by homeowner XXX and/or that the Board recommends against this.

I don't even see the Board's time to review and decide as a differential. The only issue I see is if requires some effort and possibly expense to word correctly, and I still think that would usually not amount to much. If an amendment actually conflicts with other provisions or documents not included in the proposal, then that's a good reason to tell the Member to re-think the proposal and spend no more time on it.
Posted By GlenL on 10/26/2009 1:53 AM
Also IMHO the ballots for an amendment should be treated different than the regular ballots which can be disposed of after a year or two. Votes on any matter concerning changing the CC&R's should be kept FOREVER. If ten years down the pike someone challenges a matter, you had better be able to prove that 75% of the homeowners did indeed amend the CC&R's to ban left handed people with red hair that were born in April.
This makes sense.

However, my other question was, why call a meeting at all for an amendment, if that can be handled by written ballot without a meeting? I don't feel you responded to that. I think it's easier to get Members to execute a ballot than to attend a meeting (or commit to something that will be discussed at a meeting they may not attend).

I wish Governance Don would weigh in on this, too. I would have expected him to have something to say.
PeterB1
(Florida)

Posts:257


10/26/2009 5:49 AM  
Donna said: "To have an amendment to your documents, 20% of the membership must sign a request and present it to the Board."

This sounds good, but I can't find a documented source. As I read FL720, it says a petition of 20% requires an item to be added to an agenda. It does not address any requirement for an amendment.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


10/26/2009 7:16 AM  


Peter,

The reason that you cannot find a 20% statement from the membership to have something put up for amendment is because there is no such thing. 20% petition is for an item to be added to an agenda IF and only IF the Board so desires to add it.

Amendments are determined to be brought to the membership only by the Board. The membership can petition for an amendment, then it is the responsibility of the Board to procede or to ignore the request. A smart Board will NOT ignore any item that has proper petition requirements.

" d) If 20 percent of the total voting interests petition the board to address an item of business, the board shall at its next regular board meeting or at a special meeting of the board, but not later than 60 days after the receipt of the petition, take the petitioned item up on an agenda. The board shall give all members notice of the meeting at which the petitioned item shall be addressed in accordance with the 14-day notice requirement pursuant to subparagraph (c)2."

Also from (d)". ""Other than addressing the petitioned item at the meeting, the board is not obligated to take any other action requested by the petition.""

This can be a petition for an amendment or just a general addressing of an item.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:4835


10/26/2009 8:07 AM  
Peter, adding an item to the agenda for the annual meeting can be considered by the Board (or often the President alone). Amending the covenants can be time consuming and expensive; and is often extremely difficult to achieve. Therefore I would not place amending the covenants on the agenda until after careful consideration by the Board at a Board meeting. The Board could invite the member to a Board meeting to discuss their proposed amendment. If it seems reasonable the President could then assign a committee to develop this amendment and any other amendments which may be needed to update the Covenants (CC&Rs). To simply add it to the agenda and provide a ballot is not a good way of conducting the association's business IMO.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


10/26/2009 8:18 AM  

Roger,
That would be my best advice as well. In Florida, all Board meetings are open to the membership so whoever wants to listen in and address the Board, does have the right to do so. All they need to do is to send in a written request. It is so simple and people make such hard work of this.

I get the impression from Peter that this is some rogue person who wants changes on something
and does not have a clue that there are rules, documents and Statutes that must be followed.

Amendments ARE big deals, not cheap and require a lot of research, input and proper procedures to follow. These are recorded changes that affect everyone in the HOA, not just the guy with the big mouth.They are filed with the State and the County , therefore this is important alterating of the governing documents. (written for Peter to take to a member who wants to do this his way)
PeterB1
(Florida)

Posts:257


10/26/2009 8:24 AM  
Thank you all for your input.

I will suggest to our Board that the member initiating this request be given the opportunity to speak at a monthly BOD meeting. If the BOD sees his request as well thought out and documented, then he should be given the opportunity to proceed. In this case, 'proceed' will mean he must obtain a petition signed by 20% of the HOA members requesting a change in the Covenants.

If he should succeed with the petition, we will develop a change to the Covenants and allow the membership to vote.

FYI: This affects the use of FL waterways. In all likelihood, he would need permission from the County government as well as the Corps of Engineers.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


10/26/2009 9:04 AM  

Peter,

Is the waterway question about HOA docks or are they member owned docks. This is a whole other ballgame when it comes to any decisions within a designated footage to the waterways. Usually the HOA has very little to say about what goes on in that area.

What water? A canal, intercoastal or what? That is a certain that the water district in your area will need to be approached as well as the Army COE. They make the rules and the fines for non compliance are so huge that you need not think of beating them.

But I am glad that you took our advice as correct and will inform your Board. If all else fails, you could ask a HOA lawyer.
PeterB1
(Florida)

Posts:257


10/26/2009 1:43 PM  
Donna,

The whole waterway issue is why I didn't bring it out up front of our discussion. Our homeowner is looking to get the Covenants changed and then plans to go to the other governing authorities. He wants to build his own boat ramp...

Having been here a few years, I know he (not the Association) will end up with the County zoning people, the Water management district, Federal Wildlife (manatees are present) and finally the Army Corps of Engineers.

Maybe this resident will make a career of getting permits. The HOA should only be concerned with doing the right thing for the community. And I'm pretty sure that the vote (if it gets to a vote) will be against this Covenant change.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


10/26/2009 1:52 PM  

Peter,
Does your HOA have boat docks? If so, are they rented by the H.Os or assigned as part of the deed?
PeterB1
(Florida)

Posts:257


10/26/2009 2:13 PM  
Private lifts on a canal. These are homeowner owned lifts & docks (on their property). The HOA owns one 'common area' boat ramp.

Nothing is rented, all facilities are HOA members only.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


10/26/2009 3:40 PM  

Okay Peter,

If there already are H.O. docks, then what does this guy want to do. Change the docs thru an amendment to do what.
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:8084


10/26/2009 10:13 PM  
Peter,

I expect that your Association is required to follow Roberts Rules of Order (usually stated or implied somewhere within State Corporate laws or Homeowner laws). Even if your State doesn't specify this, standard protocol for meetings is Roberts Rules.

Per Roberts Rules of Order:

"Where assemblies meet regularly only once a year, the constitution, etc., should provide for copies of the amendment to be sent with the notices to the members or the constituency, instead of requiring amendments to be submitted at the previous annual meeting. The requirements should vary to suit the needs of each assembly, always providing for ample notice to the members or the constituency."

Here is the complete link: http://www.rulesonline.com/rror-11.htm#68

Hope it helps,

Tim
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


10/27/2009 4:49 AM  

Tim,

Florida is a different animal when it comes to what rules it follows for HOA meetings. We have Statutes 720 to follow. Some HOA documents state that a HOA should follow RRoO for it's meeting but that is just for procedure.
SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


10/27/2009 5:28 AM  
Like I said before, the proposed amendment would be required to be included in the Notice of the Meeting, which would also state the agenda and announcement of the election, or other business.

But even before that, it is the Board's responsiblity to check out any proposed amendment to see if it is legal, feasible and in the best interest of the HOA. The board can declare the proposed amendment improper and not allow it to be placed on the agenda. The chair would declare it out of order. It would never get to the annual meeting for a vote.

HOWEVER, a 2/3 vote of the assembly can bring the motion to consideration. This would be a way for a general member to get something before the members for a vote. Long process, but a way for it to at least become a motion. Probably could be done with petition and special meetings.
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