Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Monday, August 26, 2019
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: Nuisance Dogs
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
JennyL5
(Florida)

Posts:4


07/05/2019 7:19 AM  
Our CCRs were recently changed to include allowing the HOA to take a dog away from the owner within three days after they become a nuisance. It was not described what kind of nuisance or who would take the dog away. We live in Central America but our HOA is established in Florida. There is no animal control officer here like there would b in the states. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?
AugustinD


Posts:1886


07/05/2019 8:25 AM  
First, the CC&Rs have to be clear about what the grounds are for asking a dog to be removed. Second, I am not sure what you mean by 'take away.' My understanding is that the HOA has to give proper notice to the owner to remove the dog. The owner must be given a chance to appeal. If the HOA still finds that the dog has to go, and the owner refuses, then the HOA is supposed to threaten legal action. If the owner still refuses, the HOA can take the owner to court.

HOAs are not supposed to enter units or directly confiscate property. They have to go through the courts.
JennyL5
(Florida)

Posts:4


07/05/2019 8:41 AM  
Any pets which creates a nuisance or unreasonable disturbance or causes damage to any Common Property may be permanently removed from the property upon three days notice.
This is exactly as it shows in the CCRs.
Yes, they need to define what is an unreasonable disturbance. But remove the dog from the property is outrageous. And I don’t think they are referring to the Common Property in this case.
AugustinD


Posts:1886


07/05/2019 8:52 AM  
On the other hand, the typical CC&Rs do have a clause prohibiting any "nuisance," and I think this is fine and appropriate. City ordinances typically have a prohibition on nuisances as well. I think in particular the concerns are barking and biting.

If a dog has bitten someone on common area property, and a HOA knows about it, the argument is that a HOA's failure to take action can cause the HOA to be liable in the future. The net has a lot of discussion about this.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3135


07/05/2019 1:33 PM  
Posted By JennyL5 on 07/05/2019 8:41 AM
But remove the dog from the property is outrageous.

It's not that outrageous. I'll bet there are other owners there that think it's outrageous that the dog is permitted to stay on the premises after having made a nuisance out of itself.
JohnC46
(South Carolina)

Posts:8563


07/05/2019 1:41 PM  
Posted By GenoS on 07/05/2019 1:33 PM
Posted By JennyL5 on 07/05/2019 8:41 AM
But remove the dog from the property is outrageous.

It's not that outrageous. I'll bet there are other owners there that think it's outrageous that the dog is permitted to stay on the premises after having made a nuisance out of itself.




I agree.
JZ2
(Florida)

Posts:45


07/05/2019 2:12 PM  
JennyL5,

The HOA would have to go to court and obtain an order authorizing it to have the dog removed. Otherwise, the HOA would be trespassing on private property and enforcing a remedy without due process.

If the dog is indeed proven to be a nuisance in a court of law, however, the court CAN order it to be removed.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3303


07/06/2019 6:35 AM  
laws in central america would apply.
JennyL5
(Florida)

Posts:4


07/06/2019 8:04 AM  
I agree that if a dog bites someone, the dog may be removed. But biting is not a nuisance, it’s a danger. I would say a nuisance is barking or destroying other people’s property.
JennyL5
(Florida)

Posts:4


07/06/2019 8:05 AM  
I’ve been told that laws of the state, where the HOA was incorporated, would apply. In our case it’s Florida.
LetA
(Nevada)

Posts:741


07/06/2019 1:06 PM  
What are we talking about here? Condos or single family homes? Condos are an entirely different animal no pun intended. No HOA can take away an owners possessions including dogs. Condos can with limited powers prohibit someone from bringing animals onto the property, BUT there are certain exceptions. As with any animal complaint, just file a complaint with your local animal control office, let the law do your footwork. HOA's can always fine and call to a hearing for continued nuisance complaints, but let AC do your scutt work.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3135


07/06/2019 10:58 PM  
2012 case where a condo unit owner in FL was ordered to permanently remove her dog from her unit. This is an interesting case because the condo association had employees that made reports every time a noise complaint was made by another owner. The paper trail of complaints over time was enough to prove the nuisance. The dog was making at least one other unit owner's life a living hekk.

The owner offered a couple of defenses that were thrown out and the final order of the arbitration proceding can be seen near the end on page 12:

"Within thirty (30) days of the date this, order Respondent shall permanently remove her dog, Buddy, from her unit."

I think the same thing would happen in an HOA. Nobody comes and physically takes the animal. The owner would be ordered to remove it from the property.

FL DBPR Arbitration Ruling in Case No. 2012-01-3706
JZ2
(Florida)

Posts:45


07/08/2019 11:09 AM  
//I agree that if a dog bites someone, the dog may be removed. But biting is not a nuisance, it’s a danger. I would say a nuisance is barking or destroying other people’s property.//

Actually, it is BOTH a danger and a nuisance.
GenoS
(Florida)

Posts:3135


07/08/2019 1:11 PM  
In my county, and I'm sure there are others, there is an official "Dangerous Dog" designation that the Animal Control Division can put on a dog that bites or has bitten people. After that designation has been made, if the dog bites someone else I believe Animal Control can and will come and take possession of the animal. But that's only for a dog already known to injure people, not for merely being a nuiscance.
JoyceR2
(Virginia)

Posts:156


07/09/2019 8:28 AM  
By definition: Nuisance
a person, thing, or circumstance causing inconvenience or annoyance.

What do your rues state about noise, cleaning up behind pet, leashing, damaging property etc. It directly relates to your rules & perhaps some county/state laws. Reasonable relates to "reasonable person" basically.

Normally the owner is the nuisance but what they control becomes the target.

At any rate there should be a process that includes a hearing.

PestY
(South Carolina)

Posts:77


07/09/2019 9:58 AM  
In the unincorporated section(s) of Horry County, South Carolina (OUTSIDE of a 'subdivision') a trespassing dog may be shot on sight.

This is based upon the agrarian history when trespassing animals were assumed to create crop damage.

Many people still 'subsistence farm' in Horry County.

INSIDE a subdivision said dog must present a 'clear and immediate danger' to permit shooting.

Off leash and barking / growling ?

Off leash and running towards a person ?


The above is why we, the taxpayers, fund 'animal control' and have laws re: mutts.
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement