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Subject: PICKLEBALL NOISE
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Author Messages
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/19/2016 3:35 PM  
Hi All! Does anyone have any experience with complaints or resistance to have pickle ball played on their tennis courts. My HOA is going to stripe the tennis court and purchase nets. Have been on the internet and there is much controversy because of the noise...ping pong on steroids. Any experience? Could my HOA be at risk for not doing due diligence and getting a legal opinion about the noise and as owner's right to peaceful and quiet enjoyment? The homes are as close as 15 feet to the court.
Thanks as always.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6534


04/19/2016 3:48 PM  
Has the Board already voted to approve this change?
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/19/2016 3:53 PM  
Yes and also to construct a hitting wall. There were some questions added at a special meeting called for the purpose of diction of how to proceed with updating a tennis court in bad need of repair. It was a side subject with answers like "to be determined" and of course they never were. I love the sport....play it daily but would not want to disturb my neighbors. Read lots of negatives on the internet but would like some first hand info if possible....
Thanks.
PitA


Posts:0


04/20/2016 10:29 AM  
http://bcpickleball.com/audiologist-tests-noise-level-during-pickleball-play/

Thwack!! Thwack! We LOVE the delightful sound of a pickleball popping off a paddle. Unfortunately, there are some who just don’t understand that this thwacking sound is a happy sound of pure fun. People who live close to outdoor courts sometimes complain about the noise of pickleball and some have even initiated lawsuits to address the issue.

http://www.gvnews.com/news/local/too-loud-pickleball-noise-upsets-neighbors/article_542c2aac-0f91-11e3-acdc-0019bb2963f4.html


While the popularity of Pickleball multiplies exponentially, it’s scoring resistance from neighbors who say the game is simply too loud. Detractors in xyz Valley are so annoyed they’re talking about a lawsuit.


Proponents hype the game’s exercise and social benefits; opponents say the repetitive noise made when wooden paddles strike plastic wiffle balls is just too much too close to home, even from inside with doors and windows closed.


The topic drew ire from several people at Tuesday’s meeting of the xyz Valley Recreation board, which drew about 100 people — about 10 times the normal attendance. But it wasn’t all about Pickleball. That was added to the agenda as the meeting convened, primarily so staff could outline noise-abatement options to acoustical fencing that hasn’t withstood the windy hillside where GVR’s four newest courts were installed about a year ago at xyz Ranch Rec Center.
In xyz Valley, Arizona, a developer has made a remarkable plan to mitigate the noise from the game of pickleball. First the court will be set 8 feet into the ground. Second, there will be 2 levels of walls tilted outward, so that all bounce sounds deflect straight up from the court. Third, there will be up to a six foot mound of dirt on top of the walls, and bushes will be planted on top of the mound! This seems like the perfect plan to allow for pickleball to be played without the noise problem for homeowners nearby.


The pickleball community members in xyz Valley are delighted that their 8 brand new courts will be designed and built with the whole community in mind. Unfortunately, lighting will not be provided for these beautiful, sound-proofed courts. That means the pickleball folks won’t be able to play during peak playing hours in the early evening. {OR AT NIGHT}


IMO: repair the tennis courts or face the (pun intended) music


JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/20/2016 10:54 AM  
PITA...thanks for the information and it is much like what I have reviewed on the internet. I still wonder if my HOA would be on the losing side if litigation were brought against the pickle ball noise. There was no HOA survey or opinion poll to see how the unit owners felt prior to making the decision. Other AZ HOA's are having the same conflicts. One in particular did take a vote a majority of over 200 owners gave pickle ball a thumbs down and I believe that the HOA then conducted some audible noise studies and a decision is suppose to be rendered shortly. Have a great day and thanks again.
Joanne
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16411


04/20/2016 6:41 PM  
Joanne,

Typically a set of a CC&Rs has a section that specifies that no activity that creates a nuisance is to be done on the property. A nuisance is subjective to the individual dealing with the issue. For example: A barking dog may be seen as normal behavior to one person but a nuisance to another.

This section of the CC&Rs should be considered with any complaint about the noise.
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/20/2016 9:25 PM  
Thanks Tim.....wioll re-read but doc leave much to be desired. Have big "Special Meeting " in the am to discuss this. Will let readers know the outcome as this is going to come up in many places throughout the country. Thank you all.
Joanne
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6534


04/20/2016 10:36 PM  
How much $$$ can your board spend without a vote form the Owners, Joanne, ????
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/21/2016 3:54 AM  
Kerry, there is no limit in the documents and I don't think there are any Arizona statutes that apply. I fear that since there was no referendum or survey coupled with lack of any due diligence on the part of the board or the recreation committee, an owner or group of owners could possibly sue the HOA. My property line is 15 feet from the tennis court. I love the game and play it avidly HOWEVER, I do not know that I want to hear the "whacking" of the ball when I am not actually involved in the game. U Tube has many examples of the game complete with audio. Even if there had been vetting, I wonder if someone could still sue. I have a neighbor who has lived here for many years. He sleeps during the day as he works at night. Pickle ball is tennis on steroids. The surface of the paddle is not rubberized as in ping pong and the ball is hard plastic. The court is right next to the swimming pool and I don't know how conducive the noise would be to a sun bather. There is a tennis court resurfacing that is about to begin and striping for pickle ball is part of the renovation. Since the court is used rarely.....once a month and not at all in the heat of summer, there was a hope that pickle ball would make better use of the amenity. That said, there was no referendum on converting the tennis court space into something that might better serve the community.

Thanks again.
Joanne
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/21/2016 4:06 AM  
I failed to mention one more very important consideration, how could the noise affect the resale value of my home?
Joanne
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


04/21/2016 7:22 AM  
Uhm...If you buy a home 15 feet from a tennis court or any other recreational area, then you can not complain about the noise produced. Sorry but if the area is being used for it's intended for (recreation), then tough. If I bought a house and there is a playground out front, I can't complain about the kids using it. I can, but it's what I did.

Former HOA President
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/21/2016 7:36 AM  
Melissa........that's a thought that no one has floated......and if they decide to do anything that disturbs people.....they can do it? Just saying'. Say they decide to operate electric scooters or noisy drones.....that would be ok? People cannot create disturbances so loud that it interferes with a person's right to quiet enjoyment. I will have to check again for what is a nuisance. Thanks.
Joanne
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16411


04/21/2016 7:39 AM  
Posted By JoanneD1 on 04/21/2016 4:06 AM
I failed to mention one more very important consideration, how could the noise affect the resale value of my home?




No different then a pool would.

Some people want to live by the tennis courts, some do not.

If the people visit when nobody is playing, it won't affect anything.

If the people visit when people are playing, it may or may not affect a sale to that buyer. However, the value of the home is not likely to be affected.


BTW - how would you quantify that it was the noise that made the offer lower then you think it should be vs. anything else (not a large enough yard, not enough storage, unable to fit the vehicle in the garage, etc.)?
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/21/2016 7:47 AM  
Good Morning Tim.....because when I bought my home, I weighed the fact that there was a tennis court NOT pickle ball court close to the property. Have you heard the difference between the two sports? Check out the internet if you doubt that there is great discussion and debate about this. I just want my community to go into this with their eyes wide open. I will be happy to use an amenity this close to my home and so will other players that I will invite who don't live here......I just don't want anyone cursing at me if we disturb them. Since it is AZ, we will play early in the morning and after sunset during the summer months. Just asking not accusing. Everyone had a difference tolerance level to noise.
Thanks,
Joanne
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


04/21/2016 7:51 AM  
People can sue for anything anytime... Just realize that and stop the madness of "preventing". Dose of reality. It's best to look at what the "Reality" is if your HOA did get sued. It's most likely cheaper, less work, and easier to just let a suit happen. As long as your HOA is not acting out of line, then best to just say "send the paperwork" if someone says they will sue.

Your spending way too much time, energy and unnecessary worry on the "what ifs"... This is a world of "What IS". Which in a lawsuit allows one to counter sue, make it an insurance claim, or have the case thrown out of court.

Former HOA President
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/21/2016 7:54 AM  
Good thing you are a former board president. A ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!
Make yourself a great day as will I.
Joanne
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


04/21/2016 8:43 AM  
Not in a HOA that does not fly. Too many pounds gained/spent for little ounce... Honestly, if you look at the consequences versus the prevention, you will find one side outweighs the other. Never been sued but threatened a bunch of times. Did I jump and react? Run to the lawyer??? Heck no. Just replied "I will wait on the paperwork. Have a good day". Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. If you can't work within the system for a resolution, then accept the consequences of your own actions.

Former HOA President
NpS
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:3572


04/21/2016 9:14 AM  
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/21/2016 8:43 AM
Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors.

Where have I heard that before? Hmm ...

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/21/2016 9:22 AM  
Pickleball was resoundingly opposed and will be rescinded by the board of directors.
MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:8396


04/21/2016 10:51 AM  
I am sure from me NPS a few thousand times at this point... but does anyone listen? Wait will I get sued for saying that? Better call the lawyer. It may sound like harassment or a threat... LOL!!!

You have any idea how much a HOA would actually saved if they stopped living off the lawyer's teet every time a decision or question was asked? All in the name of NOT of the Or heaven forbid acting irresponsibly for NOT contacting a lawyer. What our board didn't consult a lawyer? Well let's kick them out!

Former HOA President
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16411


04/21/2016 3:52 PM  
Posted By JoanneD1 on 04/21/2016 9:22 AM
Pickleball was resoundingly opposed and will be rescinded by the board of directors.




Joanne,

Thank you for the update.

It's always good to know when things work out.

What was it, if anything, did you do to make make this happen (newsletters, talk to neighbors, etc.)?
JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:447


04/21/2016 5:02 PM  
Tim, No voodoo! Just a simple case of bringing my paddle and hitting a few balls and telling the truth about my love for the sport which is trumped by my respect for my neighbors rights and the rights of those folks relaxing at the pool. This is a hot button issue all over the country and to smuggly say "tough schmit" is not going to fly in this litigious society....and I am not one of them. It would have been totally avoidable had the board done their due diligence.

Thanks for your input. Hope this discussion might help others in the future.
Joanne
TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:16411


04/21/2016 6:00 PM  
Thanks for sharing.

A demonstration is always a good way to get a point across.

Hopefully this discussion will help others with similar issues.

TIm
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