AnnieS1
(Florida)
Posts:4
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| 10/31/2006 6:53 PM |
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Hello to all of you reading this.
Below is the reply from the (Associations) Assistant General Manager.
I had asked her what the criteria was for approval of a sign. I did send a letter asking for approval of my sign, however they (BOD)did
not EVER respond, they went ahead and had the fine committee meeting and decided to fine me.
This HOA Board of Directors were "appointed" by the President. We were never given the option to vote these people in. I've been here 8 years and it's always been this way. He(The president&Developer) just appointed his son on the board due to an open seat because of a member resigning.
HE(the president) is a tyrant to work with so said the man who resigned.
I am a little confused on how this president can get away with all this shady stuff he is doing.
Here is the response from the Asst. General Manager.
"The Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions state that except as may be required by legal proceedings, or as otherwise permitted by the Association, no sign, displayed or erected upon any Lot, yard, or other Common Area within the Property, or from any window or tree, unless express prior written approval of the size, shape, content and location has been obtained from the DRB, which approval may be withheld in its discretion. The Design Review Board has not to my knowledge ever approved a sign as it has not wished to set a precedent which may open the door for other signs. I would suggest you apply for the size, shape, content and location of the sign you wish to post so that the
Design Review Board may determine if they wish to set a new precedent."
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AnnieS1
(Florida)
Posts:4
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| 10/31/2006 7:10 PM |
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Roger,
What do you mean?
(Law suits are won by residnts when the HOA does not provide due process.)
My HOA did not reply to my letter asking for "approval of my sign, shape, size and content."
In your opinion, do you think I should just pay my fine, take the sign out of my window and let it end?
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3726
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| 10/31/2006 7:33 PM |
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Annie,
1. Did you apply for approval prior to putting the sign in the window?
2. If you did and it was not approved did the Architectural Committee advise why it was not approved?
3. Has the Committee provided the standards which they will approve to all owners?
4. Were you provided the opportunity for a Hearing before being fined? These are some examples of what I mean by due process.
I might request a Hearing prior to paying the fine if 2, 3, and/or 4 give a good basis for not paying. Otherwise I would pay and forget about it. |
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Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150 
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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AnnieS1
(Florida)
Posts:4
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| 10/31/2006 8:10 PM |
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1. Did you apply for approval prior to putting the sign in the window? No, after the sign was there I stated that our CC&R's give the board the option. That's when she emailed
me saying "If you would like to apply for approval, submit you letter in writing. (Did That) at that time.
2. If you did and it was not approved did the Architectural Committee advise why it was not approved? No, they did not respond.
3. Has the Committee provided the standards which they will approve to all owners? No. I asked what the criteria was for approval, that's when I received the email that I posted, where she stated about the board not wanting to set a precedent.
4. Were you provided the opportunity for a Hearing before being fined? They called a BOD meeting to discuss "me" being in "non-compliance" which I was not notified of until the day before (from a neighbor) I was not able to attend on such short notice. Then after that, they called
an "Fine Committee/Appeals meeting" which they notified me of in writing, but again... I was not able to attend.
Then I got the letter, saying that I was fined.
All I want to do is sell my house and get out of this
Horrible community. I should give you the blog website to read about this "Tyrant" who calls himself "The Man".
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3726
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| 11/01/2006 7:05 AM |
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| Annie, they gave you the opportunity for a Hearing and you chose not to attend so pay the fine. Good luck on selling your property. |
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Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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RonaldW
(South Carolina)
Posts:900
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| 11/02/2006 1:02 PM |
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Posted By SamualJ on 10/31/2006 2:27 PM
............... These things called "CC&R's" are contracts that are not really worth the paper they are written on. ..................
Not so, they are recorded with the deed to the property and except where they conflict with the law, they are fully enforcable.
Don't like it? Don't buy into a community with CC&Rs. |
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Ron
SC |
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 11/03/2006 6:21 AM |
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JohnM3
Posts:89
Posted:10/31/2006 4:59 PM Quote Reply
Dear Brad: Then do not live in a HOA community! Very simple. You sign you obey case closed!
John:
I am not understanding your response? I choose to live in an HOA because I like it. However, our HOA does not forbid you from having for sale signs in your yard. As many have said on here before rules need to be reasonable and in my opinion not allowing someone to place a for sale sign in their yard when they sell is not reasonable. I am sure others feel differently, but that is why I chose to live where I could have one. |
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3726
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| 11/03/2006 7:13 AM |
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| Brad, I believe John was referring to the Declaration of CC&Rs not the Rules. Comments on Rules and Regulations that "rules need to be reasonable" do not apply where the owner has agreed to comply with the CC&Rs. The buyer didn't agree to only comply with those they thought were reasonable. |
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Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 11/03/2006 9:13 AM |
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Roger:
I agree with you...that is why I bought where we can place signs. We all have opinions, I just don't agree with CC&R's or rules that don't allow For Sale Signs. |
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CharlesW1
(Georgia)
Posts:821
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| 11/04/2006 1:45 AM |
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PennyN1 & AnnieS1,
I have just re-read all previously posted responses to your original post. I too can see both sides to this rule.
If I were interested in selling my home, not being able to place a “for sale sign” would hinder the ability to sell my home, although if you use a reputable realtor, the need to display a sign in a yard isn’t needed.IMO (If the realtor is doing their job).
“If” and only “if” the HO decides to sell the house themselves (which I personally wouldn’t recommend). Yes, this will save a considerable amount of money but with “selling by owner” comes the saying “seller beware” you will tend to get increased traffic, and all the risks of left, and vandalism when selling your home without a realtor, will come into play but, it should be your choice. As posted earlier “If someone opts to allow strangers in their home without a realtor, that's their choice.” previously posted by WilliamT
I feel people will tend to drive through communities (not gated) in search of houses for sale, regardless of signs or no signs! They don’t know that the community may or may not allow “for sale” signs, so you will get some increase in traffic regardless of the HOA allowing or not allowing such signs to be posted.
As you previously post informing you of how they came to purchasing their homes, is great. It was definitely an incredibly fortunate business opportunity for them. I have just one question to these previous “posters”. Were these communities gated? I would assume not, which means you drove through these neighborhoods at your own risk. Without the signs you may not have ever known about the house being for sale so in that aspect yes having the “for sale” signs displayed helped you for sure. I do not doubt that one bit.
I hope you both have had success in selling your homes. I can only hope the information you received from this discussion board has helped you sell your home.
Sorry for the long response.
Best of luck
Chuck W.
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Charles E. Wafer Jr. |
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HaroldS
(Arizona)
Posts:904
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| 11/06/2006 9:21 AM |
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| Charles - and all others who cannot put a for sale sign in your HOA yard: Contact the state Realty board or maybe a state legistator who is also a Realtor and request that the Realtors lobby your state legislature to adopt a bill allowing for sale signs in HOAs. Realtors obviously have a vested interest in putting for sale signs on property they have listed for sale. It not only identifies that this home is for sale, but also puts the Realtor's name out there for all to see. A state law would then override any HOA statue. The legislators in our state saw fit to establish a bill allowing THEIR political signs be placed in HOAs. I would think a simple for sale sign would not be any more distracting or ugly. Harold |
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RonaldW
(South Carolina)
Posts:900
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| 11/06/2006 9:33 AM |
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Posted By HaroldS on 11/06/2006 9:21 AM
Charles - and all others who cannot put a for sale sign in your HOA yard: Contact the state Realty board or maybe a state legistator who is also a Realtor and request that the Realtors lobby your state legislature to adopt a bill allowing for sale signs in HOAs................ A state law would then override any HOA statue. .............
Why not lobby the state legislature to override any restriction you don't agree with? Between you and your neighbors, you could eventually get rid of all the CC&Rs.
Of course, your neighborhood will deteriorate and property values and quality of life will go down, but at least you'll get your way.
or -
READ AND UNDERSTAND THE CC&RS BEFORE YOU PURCHASE THE PROPERTY !
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Ron
SC |
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CharlesW1
(Georgia)
Posts:821
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| 11/06/2006 9:36 AM |
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HaroldS,
That is some great advice. That is such a true comparison between political signs and for sale signs. I’ll look into it when the time comes for me to sell. Thanks again,
Chuck W.
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Charles E. Wafer Jr. |
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GeraldT1
Posts:0
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| 11/06/2006 1:30 PM |
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RonaldW,
I believe the appropriate arena to change the rule is amongst the residents by a quorum % petition to the Board President to hold a special meeting to amend. I do not believe it's appropriate to lobby the legislature as the attention will decrease property values by bad press.
I also believe the restriction of for sale signs is an unreasonable rule if there is no alternative. Such as a pre-approved sign, for display on weekends only in a pre-approved location, or one pre-approved sign at the front entrance stating home(s) for sale and ballons then tied to the homes front planter etc.
I agree with you that owners should read and understand the cc&r's before purchase or at least respect what is necessary to accomplish change.
GeraldT1
NNJ |
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JohnM3
(Florida)
Posts:208
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| 11/06/2006 5:10 PM |
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Are you part of a BOD of a Hoa?
Cause that is what this site is supposed to be! |
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HaroldS
(Arizona)
Posts:904
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| 11/06/2006 5:11 PM |
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| Gerald wrote: "I do not believe it's appropriate to lobby the legislature as the attention will decrease property values by bad press." In other words we should keep these dirty little secrets to ourselves? LOL. You're right tho - if buyers hear or read about some of the really goofy restrictions in some HOAs (like no for sale signs) they might start looking elsewhere to buy. Harold |
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JohnM3
(Florida)
Posts:208
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| 11/06/2006 5:15 PM |
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Noot only that do you folks understand something your talking about sueing yourselves?
Where do you think the money comes from for paying the lawyers? The man in the moon?
The members of the association pay for everything that goes on in a HOA except theift. Its funny everybody wants a lawyer until they understand who pays for the lawyers. The members period. Understand that before you waste so much time on a very trivial matter. |
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RonaldW
(South Carolina)
Posts:900
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| 11/06/2006 5:28 PM |
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Posted By HaroldS on 11/06/2006 5:11 PM
............... In other words we should keep these dirty little secrets to ourselves? LOL. You're right tho - if buyers hear or read about some of the really goofy restrictions in some HOAs (like no for sale signs) they might start looking elsewhere to buy. Harold
"Dirty little secrets"? "goofy restrictions"?
Read the CC&Rs before you buy the property. Don't buy if you cannot live with the CC&Rs.
Would you invest in a company without researching it first? Why would you invest several hundred thousand dollars in a property without researching it first?
Now stop and think; If the CC&Rs do not restrict signs, a homeowner could put up signs other than "for sale" signs. Advertising a business or profession, rooms for rent, even a sign protesting the HOA itself!
Again, check before you buy.
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Ron
SC |
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GeraldT1
Posts:0
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| 11/07/2006 7:19 AM |
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Harold S,
I believe that all efforts should be made to resolve issues internally within the HOA of which I am a member of in my community.
GeraldT1
NNJ
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GeraldT1
Posts:0
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| 11/07/2006 7:32 AM |
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RonaldW,
Restricting for sale signs is not the only way to prevent other than "for sale" signs.
How about permitting for sale signs but restricting any sign that advertises a business or profession, rooms for rent, etc.
Something I noted on page 1 of this debate topic is that IMO, I believe the restriction of for sale signs was written into my cc&r's to benefit the developer or builder during construction of homes. I do not believe the restriction was to "improve" our quality of life.
The developer does not want homes to be purchased and sold prior to the developer units being sold. If the constructed and purchased home is sold at a profit but less than the markup of the later phase home that is being constructed, that would hurt the developer sales. You could get the same or similar home for less. Permitting for sale signs during construction attracts prospective buyers to that particular unit.
GeraldT1
NNJ |
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RonaldW
(South Carolina)
Posts:900
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| 11/07/2006 7:46 AM |
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Posted By GeraldT1 on 11/07/2006 7:19 AM
Harold S,
I believe that all efforts should be made to resolve issues internally within the HOA of which I am a member of in my community.
GeraldT1
NNJ
Yes. And you'll have a much easier time of it if you ask permission before you put up the sign, build a deck or fence, etc. rather than asking after the fact.
It also helps if you don't have a history of violations.
Remember, the HOA board is made up of your neighbors. People just like you. Get to know them, get involved , and participate in the meetings, committees, etc. Things will go a lot smoother for you.
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Ron
SC |
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GeraldT1
Posts:0
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| 11/07/2006 8:32 AM |
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RonaldW,
Not sure who you are addressing your post to. However if it's to me, you need to re-read my posts on this subject because I believe you have me confused with someone that would put up a for sale sign even though the cc&r says no. Perhaps one of the other posters, not me.
If your post is addressed to me, it's innapropriate.
GeraldT1
NNJ
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RonaldW
(South Carolina)
Posts:900
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| 11/07/2006 1:43 PM |
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Posted By GeraldT1 on 11/07/2006 8:32 AM
RonaldW,
Not sure who you are addressing your post to. However if it's to me, you need to re-read my posts on this subject because I believe you have me confused with someone that would put up a for sale sign even though the cc&r says no. Perhaps one of the other posters, not me.
If your post is addressed to me, it's innapropriate.
GeraldT1
NNJ
Nope, I am agreeing with you and just adding on to your post.
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Ron
SC |
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 11/09/2006 11:16 AM |
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| I agree wholeheartedly that if no signs are allowed you should follow the rule. That is one reason I looked for an HOA that allowed them. I may be the minority on this issue but I really do think a for sale sign in a yard is a valuable marketing tool. That is how I bought one of the two houses I have owned. People frequently drive neighborhoods just looking. I do agree that the initiative to change should be from the HOA, not your state legislator. As president of my hoa I try to bring up rules that I think are not reasonable and also listen to other ideas. Ultimately it is there decision. |
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GeraldT1
Posts:0
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| 11/09/2006 11:24 AM |
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BradP,
I'm in your minority as well and agree with your entire well written post.
GeraldT1
NNJ |
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BonnieC1
(Texas)
Posts:1
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| 01/24/2008 3:44 PM |
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| Ed - what is your source on the Stste rules for TX? |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1867
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| 01/24/2008 3:58 PM |
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First, I'm really curious how GeraldT has 0 posts?
"GeraldT1
Posts:0"
Second, I find it hard to believe that any HOA would prohibit for sale signs. It's obvious from these posts they do, but it does appear to infringe on one's ability to sell their home.
Wouldn't an HOA WANT as fast a turnover as possible?
Just curious on both statements. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2951
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| 01/24/2008 4:01 PM |
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Michelle,
The date of the post from Gerals is 11/06 Don't know how this one showed up. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2951
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| 01/24/2008 4:02 PM |
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That is GERALD--typo from me |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1867
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| 01/24/2008 7:55 PM |
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Oh.
I didn't pay any attention to the dates!
Sorry!
Nevermind. |
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