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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:463
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| 07/08/2008 9:17 AM |
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Posted By BradP on 07/07/2008 12:13 PM Posted By JohnK3 on 07/07/2008 10:05 AM
Hmmm. Our ByLaws state that the Board shall have the power from time to time to adopt Rules and Regulations deemed necessary for the benefit and enjoyment of the Community. If we have a similar ByLaw here, I'd guess the Board COULD (not SHOULD, but COULD) decide barking issues will be handed off to the local Federales or Humane Societies.
BTW - did I miss this point: Do you have an outside property manager? If so, at the Board's direction, it COULD hand off the problem to the PM for resoulution. Unless the Board just isn't interested in enforcement, for whatever reasons.
John: I would disagree with your logic, if there is a covenant that speaks specifically to this the board in my opinion can not make rules up to circumvent it. That has to be done by the membership through a change in covenants. The board needs to enforce the rules, and if this rule is specfic about barking and the punishments for it that leaves little to interpretation. My other question would be how does pawning this off on the local municipality benefit the community, it does not. All it benefits are the board members who are too lazy, scared or don't want to tangle with friends or neighbors.
Brad,
One man's circumvention is another man's enforcement, eh? And IF such pawning resulted in the resolution of the problem, that would be a benefit to the community, yes?
I take on board your "don't want to tangle with friends or neighbors" possibility. Most of us serving on HOA Boards would probably agree this is the worst part of our duties; screwing with their children or dogs probably the worst of the worst. All I'm saying, based on (our) ByLaw I mentioned, is that a Board COULD (not SHOULD), with such broad language, adopt that as an option. If the HOs don't like it, they have their own options to remedy their dislike.
Try this: in a worst case scenario, if all options were exhausted, would YOU volunteer to play your Board's Miss Gulch and show up at the offending homestead with a basket and a note from the Sheriff to take away poor Toto (see The Wizard Of Oz)? Not to over-dramatize this (nah, I will), if you showed up at my door, you'd be met by me and my two friends, Smith and Wesson (see The Enforcer, #2 in the Dirty Harry series).
Anyway, good discussion, as always.
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1710
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| 07/08/2008 11:27 AM |
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John, we did just that. We drove up to the offender's house with a sheriff and an Animal Control officer and removed his three dogs.
For about 2 weeks he tried to hide them whenever the animal control officer was with us.
That's when we found out that he had a friend in animal control who was calling and tipping him off to when we were coming.
So the director of Animal Control hand-picked one of his officers, then, with the sheriff in tow with the court order, the four of us went to the resident's house and retrieved his animals.
If he had simply maintained appropriate control of his animals at the very FIRST sign of trouble, he and his family would still have the dogs.
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 07/08/2008 11:31 AM |
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Posted By JohnK3 on 07/08/2008 9:17 AM Posted By BradP on 07/07/2008 12:13 PM Posted By JohnK3 on 07/07/2008 10:05 AM
Hmmm. Our ByLaws state that the Board shall have the power from time to time to adopt Rules and Regulations deemed necessary for the benefit and enjoyment of the Community. If we have a similar ByLaw here, I'd guess the Board COULD (not SHOULD, but COULD) decide barking issues will be handed off to the local Federales or Humane Societies.
BTW - did I miss this point: Do you have an outside property manager? If so, at the Board's direction, it COULD hand off the problem to the PM for resoulution. Unless the Board just isn't interested in enforcement, for whatever reasons.
John: I would disagree with your logic, if there is a covenant that speaks specifically to this the board in my opinion can not make rules up to circumvent it. That has to be done by the membership through a change in covenants. The board needs to enforce the rules, and if this rule is specfic about barking and the punishments for it that leaves little to interpretation. My other question would be how does pawning this off on the local municipality benefit the community, it does not. All it benefits are the board members who are too lazy, scared or don't want to tangle with friends or neighbors. Brad, One man's circumvention is another man's enforcement, eh? And IF such pawning resulted in the resolution of the problem, that would be a benefit to the community, yes? I take on board your "don't want to tangle with friends or neighbors" possibility. Most of us serving on HOA Boards would probably agree this is the worst part of our duties; screwing with their children or dogs probably the worst of the worst. All I'm saying, based on (our) ByLaw I mentioned, is that a Board COULD (not SHOULD), with such broad language, adopt that as an option. If the HOs don't like it, they have their own options to remedy their dislike. Try this: in a worst case scenario, if all options were exhausted, would YOU volunteer to play your Board's Miss Gulch and show up at the offending homestead with a basket and a note from the Sheriff to take away poor Toto (see The Wizard Of Oz)? Not to over-dramatize this (nah, I will), if you showed up at my door, you'd be met by me and my two friends, Smith and Wesson (see The Enforcer, #2 in the Dirty Harry series). Anyway, good discussion, as always.
John:
No offense...but if I was on the board and it was my job to enforce yes I would show up at your door to take away Toto. The only difference is I would have a court order and the local police with me so your two friends would be rendered useless. I have been around the block long enough to know that people who decide not to follow the rules are just bullies looking to exhert their "toughness" through intimidation, lack of cooperation, and a feeling that they are above the law and any rules.
Any way you slice it by referring them to the local authorities and not following remedies allotted to them in their documents is not enforcement and in this situation you can't honestly believe it is. No one likes to do it, but everyone likes to have a harmonious neighborhood, you can't have your cake and eat it too. |
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:463
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| 07/08/2008 11:42 AM |
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Brad & Michele,
You're a better man (and woman)(or at least braver ones) than me. And certainly, no offense taken. These debates are very helpful in assisting me (and no doubt others) to refine what it is we do, and/or should do, as (mostly) thankless volunteers in the Wide World of HOAs. |
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