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BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:590

04/29/2008 1:17 PM
Tax forms signed by the secretary? I've never heard of that. I'm the secretary of our HOA and I've never signed any. Our treasurer does that. Hey, maybe the treasurer is supposed to sign the minutes in your HOA! Sounds like your board runs a strange ship.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:290

04/29/2008 1:56 PM
In another post I had said that the Board ignored the treasurer because like myself she ask for too many files and questions. That is why she resigned. The four other Board members are attached at the hip..the treasurer didn't even get to do the budget, the President did it w/the PM...Now I am getting the same treatment..lol...maybe I should ask about the minutes...I ask for a copy, told it wasn't done yet, something about not given out until the next Annual meeting..I have to wait a whole year? I got a reply from the MC about my request for the W-9's, 1099's, 1096... from MC "Sidney, The files that you are requesting are located in the office. As always, you can make an appointment during business hours and make copies of what you think you need. If the Board chooses to pay for those copies please advise – otherwise you will be charged. The Board would make the decision for an audit. The Associations financials were given out at the Annual Meeting to all members."... (only to those that attended the meeting, we only have 16 HO's living there, the rest are investors, out of town} Can they charge the treasurer for copies?

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1711

04/29/2008 3:35 PM
Yes. They I suppose they can, if they have to copy them for you. I think they are being petty if you copy them yourself. But hey, it IS their office equipment that they use for more than just your HOA. Why not take them yourself to a kinkos? They are, after all, your files. It is perfectly feasible for you to go to their office, as they indicated you can do, and review any and all docs you feel you need to. This is an excellent way for you to end the tug-of-war power struggle game. I'd stop by Starbucks, pick up a large coffee, make myself at home in their office and copy my little heart out. That way is much easier, too, as there is no long, drawn-out email dialog. Communication goes much more smoothly when you can eyeball each other and provide immediate verbal feedback and clarification. "No, I didn't mean THOSE files, I meant THESE files." Anyway, two more comments on their communication to you: 1) "The Board would make the decision for an audit." {-- This is absolutely correct. I find it odd that people often expect the management companies to be giving direction and advice on how boards should run their own HOAs. But, then again, some do that for free, just for the power trip, I suppose. 2) "The Associations financials were given out at the Annual Meeting to all members." { -- I think they need another reminder that you are not simply an HOA "member," you are an officer of the board and you are a specific officer of the board, the treasurer. As such you would require financial reports on a monthly basis. It should be part of their responsibility to your HOA and I would ask them, in person once I got into the office, exactly what reports they feel the treasurer should NOT have. Anyway, good luck to you. Sounds like there is definitely a power play going on. Hope you can remain above the fray and keep your goal in mind -- providing leadership for and on behalf of your Homeowners.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2248

04/29/2008 3:42 PM
Bruce, These tax returns were prepared and signed by the CPA (sig. of preparer) and should also have been signed by the Pres. (sig. of Officer) The Pres. signs all official docs of the assn. Unless the returns were prepared by the treasurer, IMO, they should not be signed by him/her. I also served as treas. of my assn. and never did sign the tax returns. In fact, I insisted we hire a CPA to prepare the returns as I didn't want the obligation, not that I would have had any problem preparing them. I previously worked as an accountant at a CPA firm where I prepared numerous Corp. tax returns. I just didn't think it was a part of my resp. as the treas of an HOA.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:590

04/29/2008 5:14 PM
Mary, It doesn't work that way here. The president isn't familiar enough with the financial records to sign them, how can he possibly attest to the fact that they are accurate? That's what his signature means. Does someone else sign your tax return? Everybody has a job to do. The president does his, the vice president, secretary, treasurer, etc. each do their own jobs. Nobody messes in somebody elses sandbox. Maybe your bylaws are set up so that is required to be done that way. I've said many times over, each state is different, and each HOA is different. There may be similarities, but there are also a lot of differences and no way is the "right" way. Personally, I would not be happy giving one person so much power and authority. Our government knows better, so should our HOAs. We've all seen on this very forum what happens when a president assumes too much authority. Nothing like good ol' checks and balances.

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

04/29/2008 8:56 PM
Hey Michelle: Tell your MC to xerox the files you want and if they refuse to do it or attempt to force you to pay for them laugh in there face. In Florida they have no choice they have to comply. Reference the audit in Florida if there are more than 200 units in your HOA the MC must have an audit done the minium accepted is called a year end audit. Down here in South Florida we went to American Express and hired them $1500. Read your docs if it says the treas does the budget threaten your President with the fact you will turn him in to the State OmniBudsman for violateing Florida law. If the MC refuses to give you xerox copies find out who is the President and send him or her a registered letter outlining what they have done and continue to do and include at the bottom under the letters cc Stete dept State of Florida Omnibudsman State of Florifa Your Local State Senator Your Local State Representative State Dept of Professional Licensing When he sees you know what your doing the crapola will stop instantaniously. Or he could loose his license. Also ask for copies of your PM required CEUs. They are manditory in Florida. I would love to be a fly on the wall aand watch the looks on these peoples faces. Good Luck and go forth and make me proud of you!!!

CarlosD
(Florida)

Posts:2

05/01/2008 8:49 AM
Hey guys, I'm new to the board. I noticed a wide range of answers to the original 1099 question. I hope you got the correct answer figured out. I have some knowledge on this topic, so feel free to ask. The posting I agree with the most is DeeB's. Always refer to the source when in doubt. Do any of you know any good accounting firms you can recomend? I am interested in getting bids. If you would share some names and numbers I would really appreciate it.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:290

06/06/2008 9:03 AM
I did keep my meeting w/the MC bookkeeper. Everything was going fine, I ask why the taxes were filed late. She told me it was the PM. The PM came in and started in on me about requesting all these things. I told her I was not there to fight w/her and I had nothing to say, my dealings was w/the bookkeeper....I did ask her before she left, "why I was not given the 1099's I had requested", her reply, "we don't have any" so it appears they didn't file them. I had also ask for the business lincense, insurance, et. of the maintenance man she uses. This time I was told, "he's sick and will no longer be doing any work."...right....When she came back into the room again, she stood there over me shaking her finger at me, telling me, "you never did like our company"...this was not true, I had only said, "we can't afford your company"...She then ushered me out of the door. I never got to finish my meeting w/the bookkeeper...So I left there w/the P&L, accounts rec./payable, bank statements and the delinquest list. NO VENDOR information and still have not been supplied this information.. This PM for the second time has cried to the Board President that I was rude to her, it is clearly the other way around. This PM simply doesn't like having anyone ask her questions or someone who is knowledgable about her volunteer job...This prompted a e-mail from the Pres, that I was expected to treat the PM w/ respect or I will request your removal from the Board....What did I do wrong, except request info I am entitled to?..Don't think the MC has ever has a HO so involved in doing her volunteer job to the best of her ability. So if the PM won't give me this information, how do I go about getting it?...I really hate forgetting about last year, I hate seeing vendors possibly not paying taxes, especially our lawn service who makes big bucks...I checked on his LLC, it is no longer because he didn't file. He probably let his insurance expire also.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1742

06/06/2008 11:30 AM
couple things: keep making the requests, very nicely. think about audio recording your dealings with the PM, and keep your cool while you do. Ask the president for specifics on HOW you were rude, exactly. Make the PM put in writing her feelings, what she heard, etc.. Don't judge it, just get it in writing so you can avoid those words in the future. give the president your calm, rational side of the exchange, preferably written out, AFTER he gets one from the PM (prepare it before, but don't give it to him until the PM has done some work).

DeeB
(Arizona)

Posts:18

06/07/2008 6:15 PM
Sidney, I would do as BrianB suggested, keep record of all of your dealings with your MC and PM and with your Board President. Remember all of you are working for your HOA members. Not only do you have the right to ask and see the accounting records, but so does any of the HOA members. Your Board President should know and understand this and should stand beside you in requesting this info from your PM and MC. IT is your HOA members money that is being dealt with here. You and the Board President have been appointed to your positions to safeguard your HOA members interest in the HOA. If your Board President does not hold this as a priority I am sure the other HOA members would love to know this, they have the right to know this. If you have the accounts payable records for the year you can summarize any 1099 info you need from this. It is rather late to file them though and you may be assessed penalties when filing them, but you could also be assessed penalties for not filing them.

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

06/08/2008 11:44 AM
Dear Sydney P : I have been the treasurer of my hoa for over 12 years I went thru everything you are starting to go thru. Here is the easy way out for you on all this nonsense. Keep in mind most Treas are lazy people thats why HOA's are such a mess. The attitude that its not my job man. So you need to make your presence known to 1 and all at the MC When you call state " This is Mr/Mz Blank the Treasurer of Blank HOA. Every time. Find out there system for geting checks cut. Have the accts payable person email you a blank check request. Save it to your desktop. Remember when you email or fax it to your mc insure you have a invoice for every fax Check Request (CR) Does your MC use TOPS Program for cost control and utilization. If not make them use it it will solve all your problems believe me you have no idea how it puts them in a corner with no way out other than what you want. When you call the MC do not use email for everything and save copies into your desktop. I cut and paste to a folder labeled what ever I save them as a word doc and then move them into folders. Why email simple everything is in writing. When you want something specific cc the entire board. If you have BOD members without computers make it manditory by putting it on your agenda item " TREASURER REPORT " I do a monthly copy to all BOD members showing where we spent too little as well as too much. My financial is: OPerateing Account Starting Balance Ending Balance Reserve Account Starting Balance Ending Balance Budget Status: Whats on target whats over target. Make up your own format but make sure you start out the first month with at least that amount of data. Month 2 Make the MC give copies in the BOD Packages a copy of the TOPS Report for the last day of the month. After month 1 contact your banks and demand to have online access to all of your accounts . Get used to checking them every week.On the check rewquest form from your MC add a line for TOPS Codes for the item to be charged to. If you have dummies at your MC Accts Payable send them multiple check requests with each invoice for each seperate item if your vendor gets cute with 1 master invoice for there monthly statements. Inform all your vendors that copies of all invoices are to be emailed to you as well as Faxed to the MC. If they dont like it then start watching there invoices witha fine tooth comb. Cause angry vendors mean shenanigans is going on with them someone is getting paid under the table. After Month 2 and the MC says its too expensive for them to buy TOPS volunteer that your hoa would pay 50 percent of the purchase amount divided among all there HOAS and Condo Boards that they manage. There owner will love that idea. Now he/she becomes your friend THE MAFIA MAY BE CROOKED BUT SOME OF THERE CONCEPTS ARE WORTH EMULATING IE Keep your friends at arms length and your employees against your breast. The same is true with MC they all have an a owner get his / her email address the same for the office manager. Month 3 motion for the BOD to have a Web Site. Thats your free avenue to your members. You have a designated page with your email on it get a email free account from aol or yahoo or msn or from the web site company. Get the web site thru your own MC that way they can link your access to every account in your hoa. If possible you also want access to all parts of the TOPS data on your hoa. If you get that you know control all your finances. If your hoa has a yearly budget of over 300,000 dollars you must have a yearly budget. Contact American Express and use there Accountant till you find one of your own. By the new Florida Law awaiting Gov "Sunshine Man" signature geta copy of it HB 679 it becomes manditory no longer maybe. In using this Blog remember every state has different laws and with the exception of the IRS they do not go over state lines. Next hire a Collection Agency such as LIENCO that specialize in taking members to court and liening there homes for not paying there monthlys or yearlys or how ever you do it. I use a company from North Carolina we email them the data on our 305 members and they print the monthly statements fold them envelope them and mail them out from there office. Next go to your Bank and set up a Lock Box account for all payments to your hoa. If your Bank dont do that move all your money to BANCO POPULAR they are everywhere in Florida and they do online as well as Lock Boxes. They bought out SKYLAKE BANK who were the only Banks in Florida that would oan money to HOAs and Condos. They also bought out Kislak Bank which was the 3rd Bank that loaned money to HOAs. Just in case you ever need a line of credit to build a clubhouse parking lots new pools etc. But they got very strict rules on how much they allow under the heading of Accounts recieveable on your monthly financials. When your ready for more email me at electricjack2003@yahoo.com . PS I dont send out 1099s I wrote an email to the owner of my MC and had him answer in writing that they felt it was not necessary. When the IRS come after us I print a copy of the email and give it to the FEDS. I am not a licensed MC nor a Licensed PM either but I know what works and what don't work. I have attached a copy of the Bill I mentioned you will need acrobat reader version 7.0 its free to open the file. I also sent you a copy of A GOOD BOD from the state of florida select comm on hoas. Join carn its a great organization they will keep you up to date on all the dumb as well as good laws are leaders at the state capital drop on our heads. By having TOPS in use you can build your budget in a matter of 12 to 24 hours. Thats why I love TOPS its a record of every penny where its spent and how much was budgeted by monthlies as well as yearly. Put the major items on a blank spread sheet from EXCEL Program. My co-hort you are about to get a huge edjamakation Good Luck with your uphill battle Tried to send as a attachment no good. Sorry send me a email

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1145

06/13/2008 10:13 AM
Sidney, I would get another board member to go with you anytime you deal with your PM. I would also not hesitate to speak to the PM's supervisor. Quite frankly, that is the easiest recourse. If the board won't support you, then you should resign as treasurer. Possibly you should resign from the board and make a stink of it at the next annual meeting.

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