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LisaM9
(Georgia)

Posts:1

06/25/2008 9:27 AM
i been taking to court for not paying my association dues, i send them a letter to make payment arrengements and they refused, what you think will happen in court, can anybody help me with question. thanks..

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2248

06/25/2008 9:40 AM
Posted By LisaM9 on 06/25/2008 9:27 AM i been taking to court for not paying my association dues, i send them a letter to make payment arrengements and they refused, what you think will happen in court, can anybody help me with question. thanks.. Lisa, Since you mentioned asking for a payment plan, I assume you are not contesting the delinquency. In which case, the judge will review the info presented by the assn and issue a ruling. Most likely the ruling will state you must pay the delinquent assessments together with any associated collection costs, court costs and attorney fees. Whether you can afford to have an attorney represent you or not, make an effort to be at the hearing. I would suggest presenting a copy of the letter you sent requesting payment arrangements together with the HOAs negative reply. Let the judge know you are willing to pay what you owe but just don't have the full amount at this time. Hopefully the judge will be more accommodating than the HOA has been. Perhaps he won't award attorney fees! Delinquent assessments which continue to amount can result in foreclosure. Some assn's jump on this rather quickly, others take their time.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2178

06/25/2008 10:19 AM
Don't assume the judge will give you any slack. Sounds like this has been a multi-step attempt to collect your assessments, and so off to court you go . . . the Board is not any happier about having to do this than you are. Sounds like a last attempt from them. Best thing is to have the $$$ there, and ask for a waiver for the penalties and be ready to tell the judge why you did not make your payments on time. The burden of proof is on you to be sympathetic. The judge will not have any sympathy for you if you don't show a real hardship.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2248

06/25/2008 10:26 AM
Posted By SusanW1 on 06/25/2008 10:19 AM Don't assume the judge will give you any slack. Sounds like this has been a multi-step attempt to collect your assessments, and so off to court you go . . . the Board is not any happier about having to do this than you are. Sounds like a last attempt from them. Best thing is to have the $$$ there, and ask for a waiver for the penalties and be ready to tell the judge why you did not make your payments on time. The burden of proof is on you to be sympathetic. The judge will not have any sympathy for you if you don't show a real hardship. Susan, How can you say: "the Board is not any happier about having to do this than you are."? Sounds to me like the board couldn't wait to go to court, otherwise they would have accepted partial payments.

TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:131

06/25/2008 11:05 AM
Posted By LisaM9 on 06/25/2008 9:27 AM what you think will happen in court You'll be ordered to pay much more than you can afford. Maybe your bank account will be seized or wages will be garnished. Possibly you're upside down on the property that's why the HOA is suing you personally instead of going after the equity in the property?

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3702

06/25/2008 11:42 AM
Lisa, it would be very unwise for you to go to court. You will lose much more than you currently owe. If the Board will not accept a gracious payment plan then get a loan and payoff your balance before the Board turns this matter over to an attorney.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

06/25/2008 12:10 PM
Posted By MaryA1 on 06/25/2008 10:26 AM Posted By SusanW1 on 06/25/2008 10:19 AM Don't assume the judge will give you any slack. Sounds like this has been a multi-step attempt to collect your assessments, and so off to court you go . . . the Board is not any happier about having to do this than you are. Sounds like a last attempt from them. Best thing is to have the $$$ there, and ask for a waiver for the penalties and be ready to tell the judge why you did not make your payments on time. The burden of proof is on you to be sympathetic. The judge will not have any sympathy for you if you don't show a real hardship. Susan, How can you say: "the Board is not any happier about having to do this than you are."? Sounds to me like the board couldn't wait to go to court, otherwise they would have accepted partial payments. Without specifics on how many letters were sent, the course of communication and the guidelines the association has it is premature for any of us to praise or condemn the board for their actions. My assumption is that they tried to collect assessments and finally without any luck went to court and didn't want to deal with payment plans. If that is the case I can't blame them. If they were quick to jump the gun and weren't willing to work with the homeowner I say shame on them. At any rate I would avoid court at all costs and offer to settle with them.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1710

06/25/2008 12:56 PM
I can relate. We've worked with some residents in the past. However, there are one or two that we would not likely work with again in the future. It would depend on how much they were behind, and what type of partial payment plan they offered. We would like to be fair, but once burned, twice shy. I agree that it might be worth your while to obtain a loan and try to pay the outstanding amount before going to court.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1145

06/25/2008 1:03 PM
Wow, a lot of snap judgments here. To be honest, nobody here can tell you what will happen because none of us know enough details. Further, I doubt any of us are experts in the laws of Georgia. It was good advice to be at the hearing especially if you can't afford representation. It is also a very good idea to have a copy of the request to make payment arrangements. A must is the reply that none would be made. I would also take information about your income level and your bills and be prepared to explain how you got into the situation you are in. Personally, I would resign from the board should we decide we won't take payments. And then I would start a recall effort since I think it is deplorable. Then again I take my duty to my neighbor very seriously. And I don't consider not working with a neighbor to be neighborly. The worst case scenario is that you will lose your house to the HOA. In Texas you would have a 6 month right to redeem your property for what is owed. IF you don't have that and/or you can't come up with the money in that time frame, then you will certainly need to make other housing arrangements. The fact of the matter is that most HOAs going toward foreclosure are playing chicken. If you really can't afford it, then you need to figure what is the best you can do. If they foreclose your house and you stop payment on the house then they will have to pay the bank or lose the house to the bank. Then they will have to wait for the bank to sell the house and hope there is enough money for them after said sale. I would call the HOA attorney today though and ask if there is any way to avoid going into court. Tell the attorney you want to pay it off over time. The tune may well have changed now that losing their money altogether is a real possibility.

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:353

06/25/2008 1:28 PM
LisaM9, I don't see how anyone can make a judgment or give advice without knowing all the details. How delinquent are you?..how many months or quarters past due? has this been chronic and ongoing,etc.? Have you ignored the Associations notices until you learned they would take you to court? Our board would like to avoid going to court and would work with someone who is in a financial bind temporarily but we have a few owners who let their assessments slide until we file a lien against them. Not too smart of them because they now not only owe the past assessments but the cost of the attorney who writes them and files the lien, with interest running. This usually solves the situation.

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:353

06/25/2008 1:43 PM
MaryA1, It sounds like you may be a board hater to make such a comment without any facts. I know all boards are not the same but our board has enough on our plate without having to deal with owners that do not pay their assessments. Filing liens or going to court are the last things we want to do.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2248

06/25/2008 2:04 PM
Ellen, I'm not a board hater -- far from it! However, I do feel if a delinquent member makes an attempt to pay part of the delinquency the board should accept it. Isn't a little better than nothing? Of course, we don't always know the whole story. I only responded to the initial message.

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:353

06/25/2008 2:09 PM
MaryA1, It looks like we both jumped to a conclusion..me thinking you were a board hater and you giving advice without knowing the whole story.

NicoleO4

Posts:0

06/25/2008 6:36 PM
Seriously this does not have enough details for much of any advice to be given. I know that our board does everything NOT to go to court, but our current situation shows a total of $13k in past non collected dues! We have place liens on property here and with foreclosures and money issues with people. The original poster did give enough details. Can't answer this without jumping to conclusions.

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

06/26/2008 6:01 AM
Posted By LisaM9 on 06/25/2008 9:27 AM i been taking to court for not paying my association dues, i send them a letter to make payment arrengements and they refused, what you think will happen in court, can anybody help me with question. thanks.. LisaM9, Being a homeowner myself,(a Georgian) and now a board member. I can relate to your current predicament. Like others, I would need additional information as well. Although, I will educate you with how our association proceeds in such matters. I can’t speak on behalf of other HOA. However, here in my association our board will ALWAYS (prior to being turned over to the collections attorney) consider a payment plan before being turned over to a collections attorney. Many times such requests are presented after the homeowner receives a letter from the collections attorney and has already received numerous letters from the property manager notifying them of the balance due. Now, the amount owed has increased substantially, and the homeowner is in jeopardy of losing h/her home. Unfortunately, by this time the board has NO say. It’s out of their hands entirely! Generally, all communication ceases between the homeowner and the board. All communication/negotiations are entirely between the defendant and the collections attorney. I would contact the collections attorney and ask him or her, if a payment arrangement can be made on the amount you’re being taking to court for? Notify him or her that you don’t have the full amount requested, presently! However, by writing a check for the assessments, interest and late fees (which was initially owed prior to the attorney fees) will show good faith and will likely encourage h/her to make a payment arrangement. Taking out a loan for the full amount, will also resolve the issue immediately. Unfortunately, many times the collections attorney won’t consider a payment plan and will dismiss your request almost immediately. NOT ALWAYS! I’m certain you can negotiate some sort of arrangement where ALL parties are silicified. Too reiterate, the above advice. I would highly encourage contacting the collections attorney and asking “IF” he or she will make a payment arrangement for the entire amount you owe. Suggesting a reasonable payment plan will more than likely keep you from losing your home and accrue additional legal expenses. At this stage of the collections process you are at the mercy of the collections attorney. SORRY: 0 Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:136

06/26/2008 7:25 AM
Being a BOD member, I can understand why we try NOT to take partial payments. When the budget is set, it is with the understanding that everyone will pay ALL their dues on time. When you start accepting partials, then everyone in the community should also be given that opportunity to pay what ever they feel like. How do you prove a real need, when the person who is living in the biggest home, driving the biggest Cadillac truck, is asking for special "arrangements"..... You have a disaster when you can't stick to the budget. We are now living with a deficit of over $90,000, and we don't have enough money to run the association. Those who suffer the most....the ones paying their dues on time.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2838

06/26/2008 7:35 AM
Right on, Pat. We are not a bank or lending institution. Bills must be paid on time by the association otherwise we end up doing exacyly what the delinquent homeowner is trying to do. I am sorry for the folks that get themselves in this situation but business is business. That is what the Board is elected to do, the business of running the HOA, nothing else.

SteveC4
(Florida)

Posts:66

06/26/2008 8:17 AM
LisaM9: If you cannot make any of the association rearage payments at all and you dont want to lose you house then you probably would need to file chapter 13- this will save your home from the association to forclose on you...since the association will not work with you a payment plan...the chapter 13 will save you! Once you file chapter 13 then the association will only received very little payments from the trustee and they will have to deal with that. I been down that road....also you need to make sure that the assocaiton is following what your by-laws state in the book....some oif these associations dont go by what the by-laws are and they need to .

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:136

06/26/2008 9:34 AM
Great idea...Let's all file for bankruptcy!!!! Woohoo!!! Screw contacts and your neighbors!

SteveC4
(Florida)

Posts:66

06/26/2008 9:54 AM
PatR: No I dont suggest everyone no to pay there association and to file chapter-13...but sometimes you have no choice to to do what you have to do to save your home and if your in a rearage of Association pay,ents to avoid forclosure from the association is to file chapter-13 it would put a stop on the florclosure....espacially if the association does not want to woirk out a payment plan. Dont get me worng yes we all need to be paying our bills and being responible for our debts...but sometimes you get in a finacial situation .

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1145

06/26/2008 9:56 AM
...When you start accepting partials, then everyone in the community should also be given that opportunity to pay what ever they feel like. ... Wow, I pray that I NEVER feel so smug in my entire life. This isn't about someone paying "what they feel like." It is about realizing that people have problems and sometimes the problems involve money. I surely hope you treat your family right since you clearly don't care for your neighbor. I don't advocate that you let people "pay whatever they feel like." But I think it is a huge mistake to not take what is available and continue to pursue the matter. Some money is better then none. And for the smug budget people, you are flat wrong, wrong wrong. I suggest you put the HOA back where it should be with some room in the budget for those who fail to pay. If a payment plan for a few people puts your association at risk, you should be recalled. The only reason to not accept a partial payment is arrogance. It is that plain and simple. If you get something it is ALWAYS better then nothing. And if you can get the money faster, it is ALWAYS better then waiting until you can turn it over to the lawyer. And if you can help someone out, it is ALWAYS better then ignoring them in their misery. If I ever hear anything like the crap some say here I will throw said individual under a bus so fast their head will spin. I would resign from a board that voted against taking partial payment and then start an immediate recall effort.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1375

06/26/2008 10:19 AM
Kirk most BOD's take partial payments and work with H/O's all the time when asked. But the sad fact is most people use the ostrich approach until it is simply too late to do anything but take them to court. If someone doesn't pay their Association fee it's not the Boards responsibility to go to them and ask why, it's their responsibility to come to the BOD. It takes three months before we get an attorney involved. That's three months worth of letters asking them to pay up and telling them exactly what will happen if they don't. Once it gets to the attorney additional fees are attached and it's too late now, the H/O must deal with the attorney. Also we have had H/O's that make payment plans and fail to follow through with them, the second time they ask the answer is generally no.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1145

06/26/2008 10:25 AM
Kirk most BOD's take partial payments and work with H/O's all the time when asked. But the sad fact is most people use the ostrich approach until it is simply too late to do anything but take them to court. ... I realize that, and am glad that most BODs have people who understand they are neighbors. But evidently there are some people here who don't know what is means to be a neighbor.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:588

06/26/2008 10:55 AM
I detect what I believe to be some short-sighted thinking going on here. Not accepting partial payments and taking a person to court to attempt to get the full amount just may not always be wise. Consider the following: By accepting partial payments, you have money today to help meet bills. It may not be all you need, but it's something. By accepting partial payments, there's the hope that, within a reasonbly short period of time, perhaps a few months, the homeowner will get caught up and payments will be up to date. At least, that's what you try to arrange with the homeowner. But, if you refuse partial payments and attempt to go to court, here are some things to consider: 1. You won't get your money today. It may be months, maybe even close to a year before you can get the case heard and get even a penney. So, if you need money today to pay bills, this won't do that for you. 2. Even if you are successful in getting a judgement, you may not get all the money at once. The court may force you to accept a payment plan anyway. Meanwhile, you've already gone months without even the first payment. You could have had it sooner if you had settled out of court and accepted partial payments to begin with. 3. Even if you get a judgement, you may not get anything at all. You can't get blood from a stone. Consider the O.J Simpson case. How much of that judgement have the Goldmans actually received? Certain income and assets may be protected. When making awards, courts do not take 100% of a person's future income or their assets. They are allowed to keep a certain amount for living expenses. The court can attach certain forms of future income, but who knows when you will actually get all of your money? IMO, going to court is only a smart move if you have a good reason to suspect the person is really just a deadbeat; that is, the person has the money but simply chooses not to pay the association dues. If the person really is financially strapped, whether the problem is of their own making or not, going to court is not likely to be a smart move. I would think that if a person is honest about wanting to set up a payment plan, they are probably not a deadbeat, and playing hardball is not likely to accomplish the real objective of getting some money in the association's checking account anytime soon. Board decisions need to be practical and realistic.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

06/26/2008 11:01 AM
Donna and Pat...with all due respect I disagree with your stance on not accepting partials. No reputable business in America is going to turn away someone who has a partial payment and I have a hard time believing a judge will throw the book at a homeowner when it is proven they tried to pay some and work with the association and were rebuffed. The argument of how you are not a bank and business is business does not hold water. Businesses work out payment plans with customers who can't pay everything up front all the time. If your association is that hard up that a couple people on payment plans is affecting your operating budget then you need to take a hard look at management because every association should have enough operating reserve to survive these types of things. In this scenario we don't know when the person approached the board about making a partial payment, if they waited until after the lawsuit was filed and after the board made repeated attempts then maybe I can understand the unwillingness to accept. However, I firmly believe we should all avoid litigation whenever possible. At this point taking her to court is just going to add more fees and lawyer costs to her bill, the question has to be asked, is the board just wanting to pile on now out of spite or are they truly interested in helping one of their members?

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2248

06/26/2008 11:37 AM
Bruce & Brad, I agree with you wholeheartedly! Remember, great minds think alike. :-)

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2838

06/26/2008 11:53 AM
Bruce, Brad and Mary, Usually we agree on most of this stuff so here is my take to perhaps soften my hard aproach on this. This is going to court? HMMMM, I think that there is more to this than we know. I cannot imagine an association decided that they should go to court for just someone not paying dues, even after they(the owner) have offered to make partial payments. YA THINK??? there is more to this than we know? I do. Okay, so maybe she is a special case. This is number one and maybe they can function without her dues. But X Y and now cannot pay and they want to pay partial. Word is out and Q, R, and S want to partial pay. Now what?

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:136

06/26/2008 12:30 PM
I am far from smug, but I am responsible for 340 homes. Out of 340 home owners, only 1 asked for "help". But the HOA BOD should not be the ones to determine need. The Home owner needs to go to a non profit counselor, who will help them, free of charge. If you determine need, we will work with you. I have heard over and over, that this "bill" is not a priority" and it is put at the bottom of the pile. Those that I know, are still driving the big cars, eating out, and sending the kiddies to camp....needy...not in my world. While 280 pay, those who don't have caused a horrible situation for the rest of the community.

TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:131

06/26/2008 1:24 PM
We certainly don't have any desire to be a creditor but- in theory interest and penalties can be beneficial to a budget and actually reduce the long term burden to on-time paying members.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1710

06/26/2008 2:42 PM
Posted By KirkW1 on 06/26/2008 10:25 AM Kirk most BOD's take partial payments and work with H/O's all the time when asked. But the sad fact is most people use the ostrich approach until it is simply too late to do anything but take them to court. ... I realize that, and am glad that most BODs have people who understand they are neighbors. But evidently there are some people here who don't know what is means to be a neighbor. Kirk, it has nothing to do with "being a neighbor" or not. It's a non-emotional thing, like your electric bill. You owe it, you pay it. If you can't pay it, then don't ignore it. What Glen said is absolutely on target. We will work with people who contact us immediately when they realize they can't make the full payment. Just like any other business would. On the other hand, when they IGNORE repeated notices, and notices that CLEARLY inform them of the additional fees that will will apply/accrue, then I have little sympathy, even being a "neighbor," when it gets to the stage where it's turned over for collection. A "good neighbor" would try to to "stick" their other neighbors will all the costs associated with running the neighborhood to which they belong.

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