KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/27/2007 5:24 PM |
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| HEY,I JUST BOUGHT A CONDO IN ORLANDO FL. 2 MONTHES AGO..I'VE NEVER BEEN IN AN H.O.A. BEFORE BUT I LIKE WHAT THEY STAND FOR....MY PROBLEM IS...MY CONDO COMPLEX WAS CONVERTED 2 YEARS AGO FROM APPARTMENTS...THERE ARE 8 GARAGES PER BUILDING AND THERE IS 30 UNITS PER BUIDING AND A TOTAL OF 10 BUILDINGS...80 GARAGES TOTAL...THE GARAGES WERE SOLD TO OWNERS DURING THE CONVERSION .I WAS WONDERING HOW THE GARAGES WERE WIRED BECAUSE SOME ARE OWNED BY 1ST FLOOR 2ND FLOOR AND EVAN 3RD FLOOR UNITS AFTER INVESTIGATING I FOUND THAT THE GARAGES ARE WIRED TO THE CONDO ASSOCIATION HOUSE METER AND THAT THE OWNERS OF THE GARAGES DO NOT PAY AN ELECTRIC BILL ON THE GARAGES..THE ASSOCIATION PAYS THE GARAGE ELECTRIC BILL WITH EVERONES HOA DUES,,BUT WAIT IT GETS WORSE,,I THEN FOUND OUT THAT GARAGES ARE NOT PUT ON CONDO DEEDS AND THAT AN OWNER CAN SELL THERE CONDO AND KEEP THE GARAGE AS A STORAGE UNIT EVAN IF THEY DONT OWN A CONDO IN THE COMPLEX NEVER PAYING DUES OR AN ELECTRIC BILL ..BUT WAIT IT GETS WORSE..I THINK ONE GUY ACTUALY LIVES IN THE GARAGE AND HE SOLD HIS CONDO A FEW MONTHES AGO HE PAYS NO DUES AND GETS FREE ELECTRIC.I BRUNG THIS UP TO THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE HOA..AND I WAS TOLD IT WOULD TAKE FEW MONTHES TO SEE IF SOMETHING COULD BE DONE ( IF ANYTHING)BUT ITS NOT A PRIORITY AT THIS TIME... CAN SOMEONE TELL ME IF THIS IS LEGAL OR GIVE ME ADVICE ON HOW TO HANDLE THIS..THANK YOU..ANY HELP WILL HELP... |
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3726
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| 12/27/2007 7:01 PM |
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Kevin, I recommend letting your Board deal with this. Obviously you did your research after you bought rather than before  |
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Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150 
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/27/2007 7:32 PM |
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| ROGER,THE PROBLEM WITH THE BOARD HANDLING THIS IS 4 OF THE 5 OWN GARAGES AND HAVE KNOWN THAT THE ASSOCIATION WAS PAYING THE ELECTRIC BILL.ALSO WHAT IS AREASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME BEFORE I TAKE THIS TO MEADIATION AND ARE THE OTHER OWNERS DUE BACK COMPINSATION FOR THERE DUES GOING TO PAY ELECTRIC BILLS OF AREA'S THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO.IN FLORIDA I WAS TOLD THAT THE BUILDING DEPT HAS TO INSPECT A CONDO COMPLEX BEFORE IT IS CONVERTED ,AND THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN FOUND DURING THIS SUPPOSIDLY INSPECTION,,, IF ANYONE IN (FLORIDA) KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THIS I WOULD APPRECIATE THEM LETTING ME KNOW... |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1867
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| 12/27/2007 9:25 PM |
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Are you serious that someone is actually LIVING in -- a garage?!
Sorry, I don't really mean to make light of it, but that's just hilarious!!
You've got a Garage Troll!! |
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KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/28/2007 2:53 AM |
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| YES,I BELIEVE THATS THE CASE...I'M NOT 100%SURE BUT SEEMS THAT NOONE BUT THE GARAGE OWNERS KNEW ABOUT THE PROBLEM WITH THE GARAGES..THIS IS MY FIRST TIME LIVING IN A COMPLEX WITH A HOA AND I ASSUMED THAT THIS KINDA THING WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN OR ATLEAST ACTION WOULD BE TAKEN VERY QUICKLY TO RESOLVE AN ISSUE OF THIS MAGNATUDE...I FEEL BAD FOR THE OWNERS THAT HAVE LIVED HERE FOR 2 YAERS AND DID NOT KNOW..ATLEAST I'VE ONLY LIVED HERE 2 MONTHES..THING IS I DON'T WANT THE HOA TO BE SUED OR HAVE TO PAY THE NON GARAGE OWNERS SOME SORT OF BACK DUES OR SOMETHING,SO I'VE ONLY TOLD THE MANAGER AND THE BOARD MEMBERS ABOUT THIS....ONE MEMBER ACTUAL SAID...I THOUGHT YOU WERE LOOKING TO BUY A GARAGE IF SO YOU SHOULD BE QUITE....I DO WANT TO BUY A GARAGE BUT DONT THINK THAT OTHERS HOA FEES SHOULD GO TOWARD MY ELECTRIC BILL AND THATS WHAT I TOLD THE BOARD MEMBERS....EVAN IF ITS NOT ILLEGAL IT SURE IS NOT FARE FOR THE NON GARAGE OWNERS....THANK FOR ANY HELP... |
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RW1
Posts:0
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| 12/28/2007 3:52 AM |
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| Press the "caps lock" key once please! Caps indicate yelling. |
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AnnaD2
(Florida)
Posts:386
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| 12/28/2007 5:05 AM |
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Kevin, so far it doesn't appear that anyone has posted a solution for you. I'm no expert,but I'd recommend the following. I'd have the board, or the management company or SOMEONE contact the power company as soon as possible. It seems that seperate power meters need to be installed and individual (garage owners) need to be billed. Everyone gets their own power bill for their units and all garage owners need to receive a power bill, too. Don't let your board tell you that there may be nothing they can do about it.
Donna, you out there? You seem to be the Florida expert on such things. Good luck Kevin! |
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RW1
Posts:0
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| 12/28/2007 5:33 AM |
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Call code enforcement if you suspect someone is living in the/a garage. It is not legal to reside in a garage.
The power company doesn't care about what "loads" are tied to any specific meter, they only care if it's not being paid, so they will be of no help to you.
If your understanding is true, an electrical contractor will be required to rewire the garages with individual meters and that will run ~$75.00/Hr. plus materials.
The owners of the garages could be made to split the total of the communal meter(s) serving them until rewiring could be done or approved, etc. If they refuse, the meter could be "pulled" to eliminate the cost(s). |
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BugM
(California)
Posts:8
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| 12/28/2007 12:28 PM |
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| Hey,as you can see by my spelling and writing i'm not the smartist guy..but it only took me 10 minuites on the computer to find this forum and help from those that are smarter than i..I think alot of past and present board members have been keeping this from non garage owners. or had no idea of how to fix the problem because they are afraid to ask for help from others..i think the next thing i'm going to do is refer this site to president of my H.O.A. and hope that she takes a look at all the good info that can be obtained on this site .i'm going to call the local building ins. and code compliance dept and see what they tell me and i'll post what i find out....thank you for your help and please if any suggestions dont hesitate to write and let me know....thank you so much.. |
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JC3
Posts:290
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| 12/28/2007 12:51 PM |
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Posted By RogerB on 12/27/2007 7:01 PM Kevin, I recommend letting your Board deal with this. Obviously you did your research after you bought rather than before
I really doubt he could have found this out before purchasing, no matter how much investigation he did. |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1470
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| 12/28/2007 1:17 PM |
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| We have the same situation in our complex and charge each garage owner $6.00 mo to cover the electric, one owner keeps a light burning and a radio playing in his to make sure he gets his monies worth. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2951
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| 12/28/2007 1:35 PM |
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BugM,
None of us are smarter than you, just a whole lot more experienced at this mumble jumble that we call document work.
Asking for help and passing down places to get help is the greatest part of doing this work for others. Research is the answer to all of these posted questions. Do pass this on to your President. Call the city, county and any department to get your local codes as many of these situations could be handled with alot less problems to the association. Let the city and county departments give you the laws and codes to make it easierle for the BOD to enforce. |
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KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/28/2007 4:31 PM |
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| Hey Glen,thanks for the suggestion..i'm an electrical contractor and i suggested to the board that it may be fair to charge a 30 dollar a month fee to the garrage owners rather than pay what it would cost to rewire and install meters to the garages,i know my father inlaw has a condo in Astor FL.and they charge 30 dollars a month for them to have electicity to the boat houses....thats 1 dollar a day...i plan on buying a garage when one comes available and i would pay 1 dollar a day for electric...but there has to be something done about the garages being sold seperate..or not being sold with the condo...any suggestions are appreciated..thanks folks |
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KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/28/2007 4:33 PM |
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| Thanks for settin that feller straight he must be a garrage owner... |
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KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/28/2007 4:35 PM |
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| thanks for settin him straight..he must be a garrage owner...lol |
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KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/28/2007 4:41 PM |
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| Hey,i called the building dept today and talked to a very nice inspecter who said he would have to go over this with his boss,to see what could be done.he said his boss would call me back on monday or wednesday...but he did say,wow i never heard of that happening before... |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2951
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| 12/28/2007 5:06 PM |
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Kevin,
See how easy this is if you get some good advice?
Boards should not and cannot be responsible for everything that some people come up with in order to avoid playing by the rules. I am a firm beliver in going to the best resources first like your County and City government departments , avoiding to have our Boards do the work that has already been established in codes and laws. Good Job on your part! |
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KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/28/2007 5:38 PM |
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| Hey,thanks for your advice ,also i emailed my H.O.A.president and i hope she comes to this web site so she can make her job much easier..i just got the feeling that when i brung this issue up,that i was going to be branded a trouble maker,and like i said 1 member told me to be quite about it if i was planning to get a garrage in the future...so if i can give them some kinda profe its wrong and should be taken care of maybe they will react...i hope so anyway....thank you so much for your suggestions and keep em comin... |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2525
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| 12/29/2007 6:47 AM |
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Kevin.
Now that you are knee deep in condo life, make it a point to read and Understand all you documents. Believe this: the more you know about what is going on the easier your life will be, don't be half safe and only think you know, make sure you know. As an electrical contractor, if your board would turn down an offer of your expertise, you need to get to work on finding out about your Board. You sound like you would be a great resource for the Board and I hope your President does look this site over and reads what I am saying. I am sure we all appreciate all the Board members that post here. This site is also a great resource.
Look at the Discussion Topic page and upper right you will see a "search" option. This covers an awful lot of ground, and unlike a lot of Boards out there, this site allows for free and open dialoge, I don't know how, but it works. |
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KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/29/2007 7:34 AM |
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| HEY ,thanks Robert ..you know i paid 50.00 dollars for condo docs and bylaws and it seems the P.M. puts out memmos once month with rules that are not evan in the bylaws.. when i ask were did that come from i'm told the board voted on that..either they are holding meetings without posting or they don't have the bylaws updated....but is there realy anything that can be done about this type thing or am i just making people mad at me and making enamies...also i know its fl.statute to give condo and bylaws if requested in writing but does everything have to be updated my bylaws and condo docs are from 2 years ago..so the answer i usualy get is the board voted on that ....but they wont tell me when or give me the paper on it....you know i don't know how people can live somewhere and not care what goes on..i've only been here 2 monthes and i'm a trouble maker..atleast thats what the P.M. and board calls me..so i guess what i'm saying is i'm trying to learn everything i can to make things better but sometimes those that are suppose to help are the ones that make it the hardest..but i want to thank you for your help..thank you very much...and once again any help is appreciated.. |
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CharlesW1
(Georgia)
Posts:821
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| 12/29/2007 7:48 AM |
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KevinJ1
You last post sounds similar to what I (and many) have written in the past. Stay strong and continue to “fight” for what you believe will better you and your community!
I’m learning the dos and don’ts of association living, more so every year. It doesn’t get any easier either. We (BOD) are confronted with new problems every month, however I’m seeing a HUGE difference in the appearance alone not to mention the fact that my family and I are MUCH HAPPIER LIVING HERE.
I don’t believe the board can “just vote on something” and just start enforcing the rule, maybe so, but I wouldn't think so.
Perhaps others with much more experience can clarify.
Keep strong
Chuck W.
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Charles E. Wafer Jr. |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2525
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| 12/29/2007 7:57 AM |
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Kevin,
You are just going through culture shock and waking up in the real wonderful maze of condo living. If the Board is mad at you, they are in need of some adjustment. So far, you haven't done anything that they haven't seen many times before. As you move along and begin to understand the bad with the good, you will accept and admire them for doing the job. Notice I did not say agree with them all the time.
Just don't try to do everything at once, have lots of patience, speak well of the Board when you can and if you can't, don't bad mouth them. Work on ways to make things better. We all have been through what you are experiencing, it's no fun but it sure opens up a whole new world. Take baby steps, and go back to board and express your concern and offer to help. If they don't accept, offer to serve on specific committees. You need to be around some supprt right now and you will find it in a few of your members, talk to some of the old timers, be cool and don't shoot yourselve in the foot. You are going to be good for your community in the long run. You care enough to ask questions which puts you in the minority right off the bat, just ignore it. |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2525
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| 12/29/2007 8:12 AM |
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Forgot,
The board has the right to set some rules and regulations, subject to support of the community. They cannot change the State Statute, the Master Deed or your By-laws,(except for rules of conduct) without member approval. The State Statute they can not change and you are also under corporation laws of the state they cannot change. ANY changes must be made in writing and publized, and records kept. Your PM should make these changes available to you and I would insist that I be given an up to date set of Documents, from the date you moved in. If your PM won't do it, go to Board and request they make the PM do it. If they don't, send the board a registered letter asking again and request they respond in writing to your request and provide you with the missing information. If they still won't do it, go to Legal Aid and aske them what to do, maybe they will send a request. Get it all in writing and all else fails, hire a lawyer to get the information, but stick to that one thing. Cost you a little money but it will set the fact in the Boards mind, if you have a legitimate request, the will be better served if they accomodate you. But be nice about it, just like you work on your job with people you disagree with. |
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KevinJ1
(Florida)
Posts:51
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| 12/29/2007 1:40 PM |
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| WOW,thats good advice i'll use every bit of it..you guys are good and make a lot of since ..could you tell me what the difference is between the cond. docs the bylaws and the rules of conduct...wow you would think that the state would require a mandatory class on this...kinda like writing STOP on a sign and putting in a blinde schoole.....does no good.thak you for the very good advice.. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2951
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| 12/29/2007 3:48 PM |
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Kevin,
Class subject Governing Documents 101. This is how the laws and documents are listed as of their importance and
1). All Federal Laws--including Fair Housing Act, Fcc, Disabled American, and any laws that might become involved in HOA documents.
2) State Statutes and Laws
3) County Laws and codes
4) City Codes and regulations.
5) Protective Covenants of your Assoc.
6) Articles of Inc for your Not For Profit Corp( That's your Assoc. Inc.
7) ByLaws
8) Rules and Regulations
Your Protective Covenants are the ruling documents for your assoc. They were drafted by the Developer, you signed for them when you bought your property.That means that you must comply with them. They can be changed ONLY by a vote from the membership by a certain percent of the membership. That number is quoted either in your Articles or ByLaws. These are what control the ByLaws and Rules and Regs. They cannot be in conflict with the Protective covenants.
The ByLaws are also changed by a vote of the entire membership. Only the Rules and Regs may be changed by a vote of the Board of Directors.
This should make it easier to understand what you need to know for basic HOA workings. There is so much more but this will get you started in the process of what governs what.
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2525
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| 12/29/2007 3:58 PM |
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Kevin,
Roughly: Documents usually mean any document that has anything to do with your association. CC&r's: (Covenants conditions and restrictions) documents, usually the State Stature for Condominiums, the Master deed and declaration, and the By-laws, listed from most senior to least (authority). Ruels of conduct decreed by the Board are like rules in an English class, as sooon as you get a new teacher (Board) the rules get changed...not a bad thing really.
It is important to realize these are nopt Laws as you would believe. Somw will be enforceable, some not. All associations documents usually spring from a hired gun paid for by the developer, to cover his butt. When the property is turned over to the associations, the developer makes no effort to rewrite the CC&R's leaving the homeowner in the lurch at times. The CC&R's can and should be changed to reflect good musiness practices. All sounds simple, all becomes very complicated because of the structure of associations, good and bad.
You have heard the expression; "Like trying to coral a bunch of cats." That's it in a nut shell. If each owner works for the good of the association all is well. Unfortunately it works in the association the same way it does in everyday l;ife and personalities bend a push and pull trying for personal gain. Ego's are bad for association and certainly personal ego's get in the way.
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AlexL1
(Florida)
Posts:162
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| 12/29/2007 8:45 PM |
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| I do not understand what the electric charge would be? Are you referring to the electricity used each time the garage door is opened and closed? That would be so negligible in the form of a charge??????? |
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AlexL1
(Florida)
Posts:162
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| 12/29/2007 8:46 PM |
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| I do not understand what the electric charge would be? Are you referring to the electricity used each time the garage door is opened and closed? That would be so negligible in the form of a charge??????? |
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AlexL1
(Florida)
Posts:162
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| 12/29/2007 8:46 PM |
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| I do not understand what the electric charge would be? Are you referring to the electricity used each time the garage door is opened and closed? That would be so negligible in the form of a charge??????? |
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PaulM
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:1347
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| 12/30/2007 6:20 AM |
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KevinJ1: Where are you getting your information on the garages? Hopefully, its not from idle conversation on the street, but directly from your official documents. Because this is the only 'thing' you can use for back-up to anything which the Board may not be doing correctly.
Do your documents state the garages are part of the capital reserve assets and must be considered part of the Capital Reserve Fund which comes out of assn. fees? Are the garages' electricity funding (door, lighting, heat???) listed as part of these assets? Are the condos electricity paid by the association or by each unit owner? If you 'buy' a garage, do your taxes then increase since your property owned is increased?
Until you know the answers, everything is street conversation and speculation at best. If you are serious about wanting to 'buy a garage', then study your documents, go through the established process (either by docs or Board) and see where it takes you.
The single most important thing you can do for yourself and your community is to know what the docs state on any given subject. Then you can proceed effectively and change 'their' perception of you. You will gain respect from knowing the legalities and presenting them with confidence. Good Luck and keep us posted!
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