"Permission" to Violate CC&Rs > HOA Forum

Unanswered

Active Topics

Forums

Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions

Subject: "Permission" to Violate CC&Rs

Prev Next

You are not authorized to post a reply.

Page 1 of 2

Author

Messages

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/17/2007 3:44 PM
Our covenants prohibit placing garbage, trash, etc. out for collection (by the city) until the scheduled day of collection (which is Thursday in our neighborhood). I received this e-mail from a homeowner today (Wednsday): "i am installing new carpet throughout my house today so all the old stuff will be on the curb today. i have no choice but to do it while the men are here installing. i am also contacting the trash people to let them know to make sure they pick it up because on a regular basis they do not come down my street for big trash. thanks, (name witheld)." This was after she already placed a pile of mattresses and debris curbside before 9:00AM Wednesday. I e-mailed her back telling her I could not give her "permission" to violate the covenants and pointing out to her that it would be unfair to other members to treat her differently. This is a person with numerous and various violations and a person who complained that she was being singled out while we were "allowing our friends to violate the covenants" without consequences. She did not move the pile and it's still there Wednesday evening awaiting collection tomorrow. Thoughts?

Ron SC

DanaA
(Florida)

Posts:117

10/17/2007 4:04 PM
It seems to me that you should appreciate the fact that this past violator now had the courtesy to inform you of an out of the ordinary situation of replacing carpet, and explained why there would be trash out early. Sounds like you have made lots of progress and violator is aware and trying to follow therules. I don't think you should expert this person to keep rolls of old heavy carpet and icky old padding in the house and then try to drag it out themselves when the carpet laying men would do it for them. Maybe you are a little sensitive because this person indeed has been a violator in the past and it raises the hair on your neck when anything happens with this owner. My opinion is that you over reacted, and instead should have thanked them sincerely for the notification!

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

10/17/2007 4:39 PM
Ronald, There are times when it becomes a "special occasion" to give permission for a situation like this. After all, we should not dictate like our residents are in a prison. This lady had the courtesy to inform you AND ask permission to place the items at the curb early. But I would inform her that she needs to comply from now on with the covenant. Some people will take advantage of leeway from a Board member. Keep on top of this but be sure that she should have had 1 opportunity to get rid of these major heavy items for a woman to handle.

LarryM3
(California)

Posts:31

10/17/2007 5:36 PM
Ronald, You cannot give permission to violate your CC&R's. BUT, in our HOA the BOD does not respond unless another member writes a complaint (Unless a safety issue). So with due diligence you write her a letter saying she isn't in compliance. If your fine schedule is like ours a warning letter goes out first. She shouldn't be replacing carpet again for 10 years ? problem solved. You really need to try to make everybody happy with a little common sense and a smile on your face. Enjoy ! Larry

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

10/17/2007 6:23 PM
Actually - I thought carpet installers usually haul away the old carpet? But what is your citiy's criteria for placing bulk trash ahead of the pick up? Our city allows bulk trash to begin to be placed on the curb the Thursday before the collection week. (There is no specifc collection day - they can show up any day in that week.) Our documents specify not before the Sunday of collection week. We never enforce it tho because for some it could be a hardship. If you need to do a lot of vegetation trimming, it is unreasonable to expect that it all be done on Sunday, including piled on the curb. If they begin piling on the curb on say Wednesday, then it is a city problem. I am a firm believer in reasonable rules, and so are most judges. Harold

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

10/18/2007 4:21 AM
RonW, I'm with the some of the others in that she did take the time to inform you which means she knows it is a violation but on the other hand she is asking you to do something you can't(don't) feel comfortable doing (ignoring the CCR/selective enforcement). What's to say you didn't 'read' the email until after garbage pickup? You could respond pleasantly (as if she didn't have a history of violations), that you appreciate her contacting you (maybe a breakthough with this homeowner that you don't want to now disencourage), but that you are not allowed to waive enforcement of the CCR's... but since the items are now gone the matter is no longer an issue. You don't know for sure whether the homeowner decided to move them back inside (wink wink) or whether they were actually picked up.

Jadedone4
(Virginia)

Posts:495

10/18/2007 4:44 AM
RonW, as difficult of a decision as this maybe for your community - the CC&R's must be enforced. I understand that owner contacted you, and that is great communication; however the responsibility of the owner to properly remove the carpet was HERS and hers alone. If that required hiring a refuse company to pick-up, having current trash company do a special pick-up, or leaving in her garage, yard or other areas where it is not in violation - then so be it. This may sound "harsh" for some, but the HOA by ignoring, or allowing this, is setting itself up for a claim of "selective enforcement." We on this board "talk" about HOA's as communities when it is convenient (neighbors helping neighbors, etc), but when it comes to violations, the rules are clear. I understand that getting the email from the owner, was a step in the right direction - and will give credit where credit is due. However, sometimes the "confusion" is that you are supposed to get credit for the things you are SUPPOSED, or are REQUIRED to do - as if you have done extra. It is not in the best interest of the overall community to "excuse" or ignore this owner's mistakes (plural) and lower the bar. We have all had "oops" situations, where we (in the words of George Carlin) had "brain farts" and violated a community rule. To me that is what the "safety net" of due process affords us - it allows us to be made aware of the issue, and to cure/remedy it. That is escalation of enforcement - which takes into account that mistakes do occur. When you have an owner who has multiple violations, that is an owner to just does not care. putting on the athletic cup, because I am sure this post ruffles some feathers..

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2525

10/18/2007 5:27 AM
To Postees, Reads like a battle between conservatives and progressives. I don't think we are in the position where we can cast doubt of Ron's motivation. The problem seemed to be what is the opinion on the actions he took. I could also guess that maybe Ron wants to know some sort of consensus of the action but certainly not some assumption of his right to do it or his personal reason. He did state this was a repeat offender but he did not state this is why he took action. The fact is she didn't follow the rules, she was notified and she ignored the notice. Speaking of motivation, the lady that left the carpet could stand a little critisim of her motives, if we are going to make this a guessing game about Ron's motivation. The instance is not earth shaking and maybe it will produce some kind of rule that construction trash and other special trash removal is the responsibility of the contractor and owners of the units. Construction trash must be removed by the contractor daily. Good contractors and workmen don't allow trash to build up on the site, nor should a good carpet company leave behind old carpet, not anymore that an appliance company should leave behind old refrigerators, stoves, washing machines or a/c systems.

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/18/2007 6:16 AM
I thank you for all your opinions. Now first, If I hadn't mentioned her gender or if the owner were a male, would it have made a difference in your answers? Here is the rest of the story: 1. She lied. She sent the e-mail Wednesday afternoon but she had already placed a couple bed mattresses and some other debris out by 9:00AM that morning. This is not "replacing carpet". 2. I did mention in my response to her that first, the carpet company should be removing and hauling away the old carpert amd second, our city ordinance requires contractors to haul away their debris and not place it out for city collection. She replied back that it was not a contractor. She didn't say who it was, but whoever was able to deliver new carpet would have been able to haul away the old. As above it wasn't just carpet it was other junk. 3. The lady has a long list of violations including at least one where the association had to have our attorney send her a letter demanding compliance. 4. On one occasion, she verbally assaulted an ACC member and threatened her with a stick. 5. She has sent me more than one e-mail complaining that the ACC is enforcing the covenants against her while not enforcing the covenants against our "friends". I believe it is very important for an HOA to be fair and even in enforcing its covenants. Giving "permission" to violate the covenants would not be fair and even. This was not an emergency, a tree did not fall on the house, it did not catch fire, she wasn't hospitalized and unable to bring in the trash can, this was a matter of convenience for her and she felt it was too inconvenient to comply with the covenants. She will get a violation letter because she violated the covenants.

Ron SC

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

10/19/2007 6:03 AM
Ronald W: ..."I believe it is very important for an HOA to be fair and even in enforcing its covenants..." I believe you have posted many times prior on the difficulty in enforcing covenants in your community....but, will the violation letter also state a fine may be issued after a hearing? And, if not, what purpose does the violation letter serve other than lining the attorney's pockets?

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/19/2007 6:17 AM
Posted By PaulM on 10/19/2007 6:03 AM Ronald W: ..."I believe it is very important for an HOA to be fair and even in enforcing its covenants..." I believe you have posted many times prior on the difficulty in enforcing covenants in your community....but, will the violation letter also state a fine may be issued after a hearing? And, if not, what purpose does the violation letter serve other than lining the attorney's pockets? Our documents do not provide for fines but they do allow the association or "any aggreived lot owner" to take legal action to force compliance. This certainly presents a hurdle to the HOA, but the threat of legal action and actual legal action have been effective in the past. The first letter is a polite reminder. The second letter is more firm and includes the dates of the previous letter or letters. It includes the phrase "any future violations may result in legal action". The third letter (sent certified mail) is very firm and includes the phrase "any future violations wil result in legal action". If the violation(s) continue, a demand leter is sent by our attorney and the homeowner is charged the legal fees incolved in writing and sending the letter. One or two people in the past ignored the above and ended up being taken to court. The result was a judgement against them and they had to pay the HOA's legal fees as well as court costs and their own legal fees. It's a shame, and it's bad press to take a neighbor to court over improper trash disposal but what else can we do? They agreed to the conditions when they bought the property and their neighbors expect them to abide by them.

Ron SC

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/19/2007 6:22 AM
Posted By RobertR1 on 10/18/2007 5:27 AM To Postees, .............. maybe it will produce some kind of rule that construction trash and other special trash removal is the responsibility of the contractor and owners of the units. Construction trash must be removed by the contractor daily. Good contractors and workmen don't allow trash to build up on the site, nor should a good carpet company leave behind old carpet, not anymore that an appliance company should leave behind old refrigerators, stoves, washing machines or a/c systems. This is, in fact, a city ordinance; contractors may not place refuse out for city collection, they must dispose of it properly. She e-mailed back and claimed that it was not a contractor. I suspect it was a non-licensed carpet layer working out of his truck and the price was based on not having to haul the debris away. In any event, the debris was not only carpet as she claimed, but two mattresses and some othe junk.

Ron SC

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:821

10/19/2007 6:26 AM
Posted By PaulM on 10/19/2007 6:03 AM Ronald W: ..."I believe it is very important for an HOA to be fair and even in enforcing its covenants..." I believe you have posted many times prior on the difficulty in enforcing covenants in your community....but, will the violation letter also state a fine may be issued after a hearing? And, if not, what purpose does the violation letter serve other than lining the attorney's pockets? PaulM I’m more than certain Ronald W will answer your question however I felt compelled to address your comments as well. I particularly don’t like mailing out violation notices, like many however we have anywhere from 35%-85% comply once they receive the violation notice, “warning”. Legally the association must state what happens in the event the issue isn’t resolved, Thus resorting in fines, “self-help”, liens, etc. I too would prefer not to spend the association’s (MY) money, but that way is “easiest” and has proven to be most sufficient. You have any other reasonable suggestion, to achieve compliance within an HOA community? Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2525

10/19/2007 6:51 AM
PaulM I’m more than certain Ronald W will answer your question however I felt compelled to address your comments as well. I particularly don’t like mailing out violation notices, like many however we have anywhere from 35%-85% comply once they receive the violation notice, “warning”. Legally the association must state what happens in the event the issue isn’t resolved, Thus resorting in fines, “self-help”, liens, etc. I too would prefer not to spend the association’s (MY) money, but that way is “easiest” and has proven to be most sufficient. You have any other reasonable suggestion, to achieve compliance within an HOA community? Chuck W. *********************************************8 I wonder if we all agreed on certain facts our reccomendations to posters requesting information could be more standard. #1 We all know there are going to be people that will not follow ruloes for any number of reason. #2 We all know that the large precentage of these people are habitual. #3 We know all associations have special consideration. #4 We know there are going to be times when enforcement of these violations is necessary, after considering each case, but there will be a time, enforcement has to be done. #5 What we don't know, is it possible to have a standard reply that we all could agree on, or those that wanted could use it. Ron and Paul and Joe all have analytical minds, could we reach a consensus or is it just not worth the trouble. If we can, we can stick it in a file and just paste it in our replies. RobertR1

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/19/2007 7:01 AM
Posted By PaulM on 10/19/2007 6:03 AM .........other than lining the attorney's pockets? We are paying the attorney to provide a service, much like we would pay a plumber or electrician for repairing our homes or businesses. We are not "lining the attorney's pockets". Many people will ignore a demand from their HOA, but few will ignore a letter from an attorney. When it gets to this point, it is because of the actions or inactions of the homeowner. We have given them every chance to comply. They have chosen not to.

Ron SC

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/19/2007 8:49 AM
Posted By RobertR1 on 10/19/2007 6:51 AM .............. #5 What we don't know, is it possible to have a standard reply that we all could agree on, or those that wanted could use it. Ron and Paul and Joe all have analytical minds, could we reach a consensus or is it just not worth the trouble. This is the (edited) text of our first violation letter. " (Insert date) Name Street address Any City, SC 99999 Dear Association member, As you know, the properties in Xxxxxx Xxxxxx are governed by covenants and restrictions. Recently, a condition was observed on or near your property at (insert street address here), Any City, SC 99999 that appears to be in violation of these covenants. Specifically: (Insert violation description here) This condition is a violation of the following section(s) of the Xxxxxx Xxxxxx Declaration of Restrictions and Easements dated February 21, 1989 and filed with Court of Xxxxxx County: (Insert covenant here) Our purpose in monitoring our neighborhood conditions is to maintain the property values and quality of life for all members of the Xxxxxx Xxxxxx Homeowners Association. Please see that this violation is corrected immediately on receipt of this letter and that the necessary steps are taken to prevent a repeat violation. Your cooperation in this matter is greatly appreciated. If you feel that you have received this notice in error, or if you have any questions or concerns, please mail a copy of this letter along with your questions or concerns to: Xxxxxx Xxxxxx Homeowners Association, Inc. P.O. Box 99999 Any City, SC 99999 Attention ACC Sincerely, Your Xxxxxx Xxxxxx Board of Directors and Architectural Control Committee " Changes are made as necessary

Ron SC

JakeS
(South Carolina)

Posts:24

10/19/2007 10:03 AM
Ronald W Chill Baby I don't know where you live in SC. So I do not know who you are but CHILL a bit. She is putting money into her property which improves your property. She is not telling you she will not remove the trash. If she says you play favors for your friends likely that is happening. It happens all the time in HOA's. That is why I do not like them but I could not find a home without one. It is time for a new invention because HOA's as they are do not WORK for most homeowners. Anything that cause so much conflict can not be good. Have a bless day Ronald and go enjoy a coffee with a friend. You're ok. Jake

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/19/2007 10:43 AM
Posted By JakeS on 10/19/2007 10:03 AM Ronald W Chill Baby I don't know where you live in SC. So I do not know who you are but CHILL a bit. She is putting money into her property which improves your property. She is not telling you she will not remove the trash. If she says you play favors for your friends likely that is happening. It happens all the time in HOA's. That is why I do not like them but I could not find a home without one. It is time for a new invention because HOA's as they are do not WORK for most homeowners. Anything that cause so much conflict can not be good. Have a bless day Ronald and go enjoy a coffee with a friend. You're ok. Jake Chill? It's my job. It's one of the duties I accepted when I agreed to serve. You don't understand do you? I do not "play favorites". Not sending her a letter when she violates the covenants would be playing favorites. Would you suggest that city police or code enforcement officers "chill"? Don't like HOAs? Don't live in one. It's that simple. Can't find a home you like that doesn't have covenants? Why do you think that is? Perhaps it's because the HOA enforces the covenants. Think about it.

Ron SC

JakeS
(South Carolina)

Posts:24

10/19/2007 10:54 AM
Ronald W If you read the posts most people are telling you to CHILL. I do understand as I am President of an HOA but I still hate them. I think you have control issues and your ego is easily offended. Likely your HOA is not a happy one. Grow up, put away childish things and live. Cancel the coffee, you don't need any more caffine. You need to step back and be reasonable and stop being a ego central person. Write back if you like I love hitting bullies betweend the eyes. OR be a friend YOU store the old carpet in your house for her. Now wouldn't that be a neighborly thing to do? I'm praying for you. Jake

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/19/2007 11:30 AM
Posted By JakeS on 10/19/2007 10:54 AM Ronald W If you read the posts most people are telling you to CHILL. I do understand as I am President of an HOA but I still hate them. I think you have control issues and your ego is easily offended. Likely your HOA is not a happy one. Grow up, put away childish things and live. Cancel the coffee, you don't need any more caffine. You need to step back and be reasonable and stop being a ego central person. Write back if you like I love hitting bullies betweend the eyes. OR be a friend YOU store the old carpet in your house for her. Now wouldn't that be a neighborly thing to do? I'm praying for you. Jake Well, you are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate the prayer. Please tell me, what would you do if a member of your association complained to you about his or her neighbor putting large piles of trash curbside and leaving them there until the collection day and this was a violation of the covenants? Would you ignore the violator or would you ignore the other member?

Ron SC

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/19/2007 11:39 AM
Jake, I often post on this forum to get opinions but I am not taking a vote before I make a decision. There are some people whose opinions I repsect more than others. If anyone ever comes up with an effective way to get the few troublemakers in our communities to stop causing trouble and become good neighbors who respect their fellow members, I will be among the first to try it.

Ron SC

JakeS
(South Carolina)

Posts:24

10/19/2007 12:40 PM
Ronald W Every homeowner who complains is not always right or wrong. It looks like you got thru to this lady because she wrote you an email to keep you informed. In this case, I would explain to the complainers that this is a one time event, ask them would you want the old carpet in your home and tell them it will be taken care of at the next trash time. Tell me what would the complainers say if they had to talk to the lady instead of putting that job on you. I like to get people to work together and look at situations like we all have issues and sometimes we have to overlook and forgive each other. I try to find ways to bring people together and get them to talk it out and most of the time people are reasonable when face to face, hold their tempers and talk it through. Complainers can get you to react, they tend to have agendas sometimes beyond enforcing violations. I have a couple who complain to me all the time about their neighbor. This couple would like me to cause trouble for their neighbor but I am wise enough to know that this couple, even though he is a "big WIG" in a local company, are causing their own problems. He smokes cigs and his wife does not like him smoking in the house. So, he sits outside staring all day and all night at his neighbors yard. The angry starers never go away, they argue with each other all the time and they hate living in South Carolina and can not wait to move out. So they like making trouble and he likes thowing his weight around. Get this. Their neighbors asked this couple for privacy and the couple called the police. Now what kind of person would be offended if you asked them not to stare at them all the time.... This smoke couple are bullies who are caught up in a power trip. Ronald you seem like a reasonable person but others are pushing your buttons, do not let them. The complainers usually have issues they should be sited for also but they only look at the other guy. And after all there emails the trash truck just left. My two cents for what it is worth. Take care. Jake

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

10/19/2007 12:57 PM
Posted By JakeS on 10/19/2007 12:40 PM Ronald W Every homeowner who complains is not always right or wrong. My wife observed the pile of trash on her way out of the development early in the morning. This was well before she asked for "permission" (she didn't ask, she "told" me it would be there) and the pile included mattresses, not just the carpet debris. If she had wanted to, if she respected the HOA's authority, she could have had made arrangements to properly dispose of the debris. And as I pointed out, she has a thick file of violation notices. Once an owner makes it known that he or she has little regard for the covenants, I see no reason to be lenient with that person. This very same person accused us of favoring our friends, then turns around and asks us to do exactly what she was complaining about. It's not somebody staring at another person's house or allowing smoke to drift onto their property, and it's not an unsubstantiated complaint from someone with a grudge, it's a clear cut, objective, not subjective, violation.

Ron SC

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

10/19/2007 2:03 PM
RonaldW: You have posted of your community's trash issues before and it still is rearing its ugly head... IMO, the problem here is not necessarily 'trash' or 'debris' put at the curb on the wrong day. But, it may be a problem with the wording of your covenants or rules & regs. Any rules which a Board/Committee wants the community to follow must be reasonable at the very least, and make sense in the day to day reality of community living. I don't believe you are being reasonable in this situation with the resident's carpet put at the curb NOT ON TRASH DAY!!! C'mon, Ron, now I ask you, what would YOU do with your old carpeting being replaced on a day that was NOT your community's trash pick-up day? As an fyi, usually the old carpeting needs to be cut up in 3' wide strips and placed out for normal trash pick-up. This is a timely process in itself and the ones who are laying the new carpet do not usually do it, but it is the homeowner who is responsible for it. IMO, old carpet, mattresses, and large limbs from tree cutting (as you have noted in the past) placed at the curb not on trash day are also not weekly trash items--they are the result of 'life situations' which sometimes occur. Step back, give yourself a break. You don't have to rule with an iron fist, and hold to the written word as it is. Your community needs to come together Board and Residents alike--review your documents, create changes which work for YOUR COMMUNITY'S residents, and take the common sense approach. You and your community will be much better for it. You also might not have to pay your attorney for so many violation letters if the documents themselves are worded to allow flexibility for "unusual life situations".

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1867

10/19/2007 2:11 PM
Paul: That is an absolutely outstanding response. Regular day-to-day trash that is a routine for everyone, including the day of pick up is one thing. But we all know that during special times, like remodeling, that it is not at all feasible to expect a homeowner to have to shoehorn that sort of debris into "regular trash pick up day." Those are fairly irregular occurrences and not likely to be a regular weekly, monthly or even quarterly event. At any rate, if a homeowner gave me a "heads up" about a situation that would be a temporary "violation," I think the board would be able to deal with the situation, regardless of how many OTHER infractions in the past the homeowner had incurred. In fact, I would consider it a step in the right direction that at least they were even thinking about the HOA and giving the heads up.

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

10/19/2007 2:56 PM
Great post Paul! If you read my post way above, it is indeed UNREASONABLE to expect bulk trash be placed at the curb the day of pick up. Even cities do not require that. And I think a reasonable judge would also find it unreasonable. It sounds like Ron has a vendetta against this homeowner because she is a REPEAT VIOLATOR and by golly she is going to toe the line or else. No one is going to change his mind. I'm not even sure why he asked for "thoughts." He became defensive when we did give our "thoughts." So issue the damn violation and fine, Ron (with due process of course.) That should make your day. I suppose the trash is long gone, so why are we still discussing this? Harold

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

10/19/2007 3:02 PM
MicheleD: Thanks for your kind words. It troubles me to read of posters who believe it is their 'duty' in serving as a Board member to come down hard in situations involving a resident. I strongly abide by the belief that the CC&Rs, and Rules & Regulations were created (by others, not residents) to serve the community residents' needs. It is not and should never be the other way around--for the residents to serve the documents. Therefore, we should all review our documents periodically to decide if they remain reasonable, just and fair to all, and do they fulfill our community's needs at this time. If they don't, change them!!! with the appropriate procedure to do so. But, above all, don't allow a document(paper) to be greater than its people...we want to retain the spirit of the law==no longer the letter of the law.

JakeS
(South Carolina)

Posts:24

10/19/2007 4:12 PM
Ronald I have some information I would like to share with you that will likely help you. I understand that you sincerely care about doing the job you were elected to do. If you are interested in emailing or speaking to me is there someway we can get in touch without putting the info. on the forum for eternity. I sincerely do have some resources that you may not be aware of that you may want to know about. Jake

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

10/19/2007 9:00 PM
RonW, are you sure you mean this? It sounds like a setup for 'selective enforcement'. "Once an owner makes it known that he or she has little regard for the covenants, I see no reason to be lenient with that person.

JakeS
(South Carolina)

Posts:24

10/20/2007 4:11 AM
DJ1 Have you read the posts from all the others and do you understand the issues here. As President of an HOA I have to watch out for the EGO that says rule hard or else. You and I know that turnover of residents due to HOA heavy handed behavior does no good for any property values including mine. DJ1 read all the posts and get all the info before you answer. Jake

You are not authorized to post a reply.

Page 1 of 2

Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > "Permission" to Violate CC&Rs