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Subject: Colorado laws regarding HOA contract
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TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/28/2018 12:58 PM  
I would like to find out what Colorado laws give me the right to request review of the contract between our HOA and the Management Company.
Thank you for your help.
AugustinD


Posts:1208


06/28/2018 2:33 PM  
For HOAs and condominiums, the main Colorado statute appears to be the Colorado Common Interest Ownership Act (CCIOA). The part of this statute pertaining to records viewing appears at https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-38/real-property/article-33.3/part-3/section-38-33.3-317 . It appears that as long as the management contract is not currently under negotiation, you have a right to view the contract under Colorado state law.

Here is a master list of the state laws for HOA's and condos in Colorado: https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/dora/node/92911

A few of the regulars here are Colorado HOA members. They may chime in with more suggestions. Check back.



SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:31


06/28/2018 2:49 PM  
Posted By TutaN on 06/28/2018 12:58 PM
I would like to find out what Colorado laws give me the right to request review of the contract between our HOA and the Management Company.
Thank you for your help.


A followup would be why would you want to see it?
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


06/28/2018 4:07 PM  
Welcome to the Forum, Tuta.

Nice that Augustin gave you so much useful info!

Your own HOA documents like your CC&Rs or Bylaws also might give you the right to review executed contracts. Some states seem to require that you provide a reason for wanting them. If so, I'd just say "I wan t to review this to see what part of my dues is paying for."

Make sure your request is in writing and is addressed to the right person(s).
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/28/2018 6:55 PM  
Augustin, thank you very much. I will check out the information you provided to me. I may contact you if I have additional questions. Thank you again.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/28/2018 6:58 PM  
Augustin, thank you very much for this information. I might have more questions after checking out the information you provided to me. Thank you again.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/28/2018 7:11 PM  
Posted By KerryL1 on 06/28/2018 4:07 PM
Welcome to the Forum, Tuta.

Nice that Augustin gave you so much useful info!

Your own HOA documents like your CC&Rs or Bylaws also might give you the right to review executed contracts. Some states seem to require that you provide a reason for wanting them. If so, I'd just say "I wan t to review this to see what part of my dues is paying for."

Make sure your request is in writing and is addressed to the right person(s).




Kerry, very good idea. Thank you!
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/29/2018 11:26 AM  
Quick update. I received via email a copy of the contract between our HOA and MC. I read it, and I do have some questions. One of the paragraph is confusingly worded.
Here we go:

"Indemnification
The Association agrees to indemnify, defend and hold the Management Agent harmless from all claims, demands, suits, damages, costs and expenses 9 including reasonable attorneys fees) relating directly or indirectly to the property and from liability for damage to property and injuries to or death of any employee or other persons whosoever, other than caused by the willful negligent conduct of Management or its agents. The association also agrees to carry at its own expense public liability insurance naming the Management Agent as an additional insured, and to furnish the management Agent certificates evidencing the existence of such insurance."

Can somebody please explain this to me in plain English?

Does this paragraph from the contract gives the owner of MC the right to act like a dictator and not be held accountable for anything?

If that is the case, does the contract need to be amended or changed?

The situation we are dealing with in our subdivision is this: Some of the common areas are not well kept (mowing, trees growing over fences etc)there is no quality control evidenced. The MC appears to be poorly staffed, there is no transparency. The owner of the MC is insulting and officious. The HOA board members are not getting involved with anything. They just go along, and enjoy their retirement. We are trying to figure out what to do.

Thank you very much for your help. I really appreciate it.

DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1278


06/29/2018 11:52 AM  
My understanding of the indemnification is that they are just trying to deflect responsibility for any bad things that happen, it would be up to a court to determine if that was enforceable or not.

I think your larger problem is the board. The board has various responsibilities and duties as outlined in the governing docs and possibly state law. The role of an MC is to handle day-to-day duties to reduced workload for the board. The board can delegate duties to the MC, but not the responsibilities. If the board is shirking their responsibilities, then you and other like minded owners should work to elect better board members at future elections, or possibly even perform a recall, following the procedures in your governing docs and state law. Note that while the association is not technically a government, it has similarities, including having elected representatives on the board.

If most members don't care and can't be made to care enough to make a change, then you might be stuck. This is not just an HOA problem, it exists at all levels of government. I'll try to avoid getting too political, but there are plenty of elected officials from local all of the way up that I didn't vote for and don't feel are doing a good job.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


06/29/2018 12:21 PM  
We have a very similar indemnification clause with our Mgt. Co. (MC)

But Douglas is right: It's entirely up to the Board to make sure the MC lives up to the terms of the contract. The contract should state what the MC's responsibilities are. Orus for example stats that the General mgr. (GM) who works for the MC supervises all vendors on the premises, e.g., landscapers. So...get a copy of the HOA contract with th landscapers.

If that vendor is not adhering to the contract the Gen. Mgr. should enforce the contract. If the GM just lets the landscaper do whatever they want and not adhere to the contract, it's the Board that should lean on the GM to fulfill their contract--supervising vendors.

Is your manager certified? How many hours do they spend on your premises? What size is your HOA?
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:31


06/29/2018 2:14 PM  
Agree with Douglas and Kerry, the management company put that clause so they would not get sued if stuff goes wrong. These indemnification clauses should not be in management company contract but sneaky attorney's find a way to get them in.

You can complain about all day to the MC but the board is responsible for the MC's actions.

"Does this paragraph from the contract gives the owner of MC the right to act like a dictator and not be held accountable for anything?" < This is exactly what it means especially not being liable for their actions. It's all on the board.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/29/2018 2:21 PM  
Douglas thank you, I am starting to learn so much! What a good thing to discover this HOATalk website. I'll keep bringing on my questions. Thank you in advance!
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/29/2018 2:29 PM  
Kerry, thank you! Wow, this explains why things do not get done. I will go ahead and ask the MC, who is their General mgr, if he is certified, and how many hours their staff spend on our premises.
Our HOA has around 100 residences. Thank you again for all this valuable information.
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:31


06/29/2018 2:40 PM  
This does bring up a good point, if the management company is certified, can that certification be taken away if they have been negligent in their contractual duties?

Or is "certified" just a advertisement gimmick?
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/29/2018 2:45 PM  
Sheila, thank you! I wonder if the Board ever consulted an attorney before signing the contract.
I am thinking to put together a letter and ask the Board about this concern I have, and also cc the MC. Now more questions come to my mind since we have been living in this subdivision for only for years. For example should the board get every year, or just once in awhile bids from other MCs?

Is it legitimate to ask for the bid documents that put this MC in the current position?
Is it legitimate to ask when the board is going to get new bids for finding a more capable MC?

I did some research around , read reviews and the reviews I found were 1 star only with lots of complains, and unhappy people.

Thank you all for your help and time!
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/29/2018 2:48 PM  
I need to clarify, the reviews refer to the MC.
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:31


06/29/2018 3:00 PM  
Most management companies have 1 stars. End of the day its all on the board. If they have a good relationship with the MC, then no reason to try to get other bids from other companies for a new contract but most are 1 year contracts with cancellation at any time. Amending and renegotiating the current one might be one good idea to reduce cost by reducing the management's obligations. Getting rid of the indemnification clause is another.

Is it legitimate to ask for the bid documents that put this MC in the current position? Bids would come under executive privilege. So you may not be able to see that. It doesn't matter the bids are probably years old.

Is it legitimate to ask when the board is going to get new bids for finding a more capable MC? Yes but you must clearly layout the issues with the management company, some are rarely are transparent, some deflect their problems back to the board, its a good deal for MC's.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/29/2018 3:55 PM  
Sheila, I went back and read the contract again. You are right - the board is at fault to begin with. I cannot believe that the President of the board signed the contract. It is so obvious that the contract was written by the MC's attorney, and it has many flaws. The contract does not even have a detailed list of the day-to -day duties that need to be performed by MC. No wonder we are dealing with difficult to address consequences.

I am not giving up, I am doing a little bit more research here on this AWSOME forum, and then prepare a letter for the board.

Thank you again for all this advice. Keep it coming..... I love learning new things!
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


06/29/2018 4:03 PM  
Sorry I wasn't clearer, SheilaJ. Our MC is very large and in three states. Their indemnification clause is very common in such agreements. It does not mean their attorney is sneaky. Our HOA attorney vetted this (and other contracts) that have similar clauses and didn't object. When I have time I'll reread this common clause. Maybe it's different than Tuta's, but I have complete faith in our HOA attorney's ability to vet our contracts.

Such a clause does NOT give the MC dictatorial powers. Note this part of the clause, please: They are responsible if "caused by the willful negligent conduct of Management or its agents."

Property management certification is usually by CAI (Community Association Inst.) a national organization. Certified Property managers must pass certain tests to get the designation, say, of CAM. they do have a Code f Ethics and thy do have ways of disciplining their members.


With 100 homes, Tuta, your property mgr. might only visit your HOA xx times a week. The contract will say how many hours they must be on your premises (if any).

No, you may not see the proposals the board collected to hire the MC. Only the final contract. Of course you can ask th board to seek a new MC, but as others have written starting with Douglas, it's your Board that IS obligated to make sure the PM abides by the contract.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/29/2018 4:33 PM  
Hi Kerry, thank you for your input. Very useful!
That's my concern. How do you prove: "The willful conduct of Management or its agents" if you have to go to court for this? You we'll need to pay a fortune to pay all the fees.

Here is what the contract say about the property inspections:

"Regular Property Inspections - A detailed inspection checklist shall be developed by the board to meet the Association's requirements. MC will officially inspect the property regularly for purposes of reviewing common element upkeep requirements. Other informal inspections will occur more frequently depending on outstanding concerns."

The contract does not say anything about "how many hours" they should be on our premises. Is this a flaw?
Is it possible to contact CAI and ask if this MC and their owner who is also the General manager are certified?

Thank you again for all your help!
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


06/29/2018 4:48 PM  
Please, Tuta, it's your BOARD that's failing to oversee the work of your MC.

You have no reason to go to court against the MC. Does the contract say the MC supervises your vendors (gardeners? maintenance personal, or whomever?). If NOT it's your Board's job to supervise your gardeners. No, it's not a flaw that a hours are specified in the contract with the MC. All they have to do is the duties in the contract.


How many pages is it? How much are your paying them? It could be the MC has very few duties and your HOA is paying them very little. You do get what you pay for.

TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/29/2018 4:52 PM  
Hi Kerry, I have additional questions. Thank you for your time.

What does CAM mean?
Only the Property managers ( I assume the manager that comes out on our premises ) need to be certified, or the MC itself as well?

Thank you again for your help.

TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/29/2018 5:08 PM  
Hi Kerry, I am not planning to go to court. I am trying to avoid court that's the reason I want to figure out how to solve the problems.
It looks to me that the MC has the responsibility to inspect the property regularly. I will quote from the contract again. Here we go:

" Regular Property Inspections - A detailed inspection checklist shall be developed by the board to meet the Association's requirements. MC (the name of the Management Company is listed here) will officially inspect the property regularly for purposes of reviewing common element upkeep requirements. Other informal inspections will occur more frequently depending on outstanding concerns."

The contract has six pages. We are paying around $700 a year.

I will ask the Board for a detailed list of the duties that are assigned to this MC.

Please let me know if you need more details from the contract.
AugustinD


Posts:1208


06/29/2018 6:16 PM  
-- I agree with the others that the indemnification is usual.

-- I agree with the others that it's the board and only the board the OP should address about problems with the management company.

-- I think management certification is an advertising gimmick.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1278


06/29/2018 7:21 PM  
Posted By AugustinD on 06/29/2018 6:16 PM

-- I agree with the others that it's the board and only the board the OP should address about problems with the management company.


Exactly, the MC works for the association, but at the direction of the BOD. Don't be surprised if they are not responsive to your questions.

As far as specifying hours, that is more typical in situations with larger associations or condos where one or more staff of the MC spend significant time on site, possibly even full time. For cases where the MC just does a monthly inspection or something like that, the contract would not contain such level of detail.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


06/29/2018 11:40 PM  
At $700/ann., Tuta, I would expect very, very little.

There might not be any requirement the Manager is certified in CO, but some states, FL, I think, require it. IN CA managers have to tell HOA board if they're certified.
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4166


06/30/2018 1:00 AM  
Posted By TutaN on 06/28/2018 12:58 PM
I would like to find out what Colorado laws give me the right to request review of the contract between our HOA and the Management Company.
Thank you for your help.


Colorado gives you the right to review any and all HOA documents. YOU and your fellow homeowners are paying for their service and have the right to see and review the contract.

TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/30/2018 8:09 AM  

Douglas, thank you for this info. I did ask the Board this question: "Did the Board members provide MC with a detailed list of duties to meet the Association’s requirements? If yes, please provide a copy of that list to us".

I am still waiting for their answer.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/30/2018 8:17 AM  
Janet, thank you for this information.

I requested, and received a copy of the CAM License of the General manager. It just expired this month. The License was issued for only a year. Is it normal for a CAM License to be issued only for a year? What should we do? Thank you for your help.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/30/2018 8:19 AM  
Kerry, thank you for this info.

How can I find out if Co. is one of those states that requires to be certified for this type of business? Thank you.
AugustinD


Posts:1208


06/30/2018 8:30 AM  
From googling, it looks like Colorado has a licensing requirement, but it will sunset (that is, the requirement will no longer exist) about a year from today, after July 1, 2019. See

https://www.caionline.org/Advocacy/StateAdvocacy/PriorityIssues/ManagerLicensing/Pages/CO.aspx

https://www.camicb.org/colorado-manager-licensing

Someone please confirm or refute my research.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/30/2018 12:17 PM  
Augustine, Thank you very much!

I am posting this information here for others to see. It is very useful. Again, thank you very much for your help!

"If one does not renew their CAM license or CAM entity license by the upcoming license renewal deadline of July 1, 2018, one cannot operate as a CAM or CAM entity in the State of Colorado. Also, anyone practicing community association management without the required license can be subject to a Cease & Desist Order, and additional penalties as may be determined by the State. Until July 1, 2019, the Division of Real Estate has jurisdiction and authority to regulate and discipline CAM licensees."​
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


06/30/2018 1:07 PM  
Did you mean $700 a year, Tuta? Or a month? If a year, I can't imagine what service you should expect. but I doubt it includes overseeing the gardeners. How much is your contract with the gardeners/landscapers? If it's as tiny as with the MC, it's not surprising your common areas look bd.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/30/2018 3:29 PM  
Kerry,$700 a year, and the landscape expense for 2017 is almost $50,000.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


06/30/2018 4:18 PM  
So, Tuta. Who supervises the landscapers? That seems to be your main issue, right?
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:47


06/30/2018 4:28 PM  
Posted By TutaN on 06/30/2018 3:29 PM
Kerry,$700 a year, and the landscape expense for 2017 is almost $50,000.




I believe you should be looking at the contract the Board signed with the Landscape company. MC's usually don't sign the contracts for the community.

At $700.00 a year, just what else do they do for you? Violation reviews, ARC requests, dues collections, vendor payments? I'm assuming you're a single family residence HOA. How much common area is the landscape company maintaining?
t
For that money you can't expect much. Day to day duties? That amount represents about 12 hours of work a year. Or an hour per month.

Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/30/2018 5:28 PM  
Kerry, according to the contract the MC should, but it's not happening. That's the main issue. Today we found out something new that the License of the General Manager is expired. We sent an email to the Board with describing our concerns. We'll see...
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/30/2018 5:34 PM  
According to the contract the MC handles all the contracts with the vendors, and the contracts are not available to the HOA members. Yes, we are a single family residence HOA.
I asked the MC and the Board for a detailed list of all the duties. I am still waiting for a reply. I will have to double check about the common area.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:47


06/30/2018 5:58 PM  
Posted By TutaN on 06/30/2018 5:34 PM
According to the contract the MC handles all the contracts with the vendors, and the contracts are not available to the HOA members. Yes, we are a single family residence HOA.
I asked the MC and the Board for a detailed list of all the duties. I am still waiting for a reply. I will have to double check about the common area.




If the contract is between the MC and landscaper, then you wouldn't have access to it. I would think if that were the case then the MC fees would include the landscaping. The HOA is making payment to a vendor when they are not party to the contract. Not a good idea. The landscaper works for the MC, not the HOA.

I'd be interested if all insurance is in place for all parties since the landscaper is on HOA property.

Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


06/30/2018 6:15 PM  
Tuta, your language might be confusing. You wrote: "According to the contract the MC handles all the contracts with the vendors, and the contracts are not available to the HOA members."

This makes it sound like the MC signs contracts for your vendors, but I really doubt that. First, Boards approve contracts, not MCs. And At $700/ann., It seems impossible the MC would "manage" all contracts. But what does that mean??

Please give the exact wording of that language MC "handles contracts" in your contract with the MC.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


06/30/2018 6:16 PM  
Tuta, your language might be confusing. You wrote: "According to the contract the MC handles all the contracts with the vendors, and the contracts are not available to the HOA members."

This makes it sound like the MC signs contracts for your vendors, but I really doubt that. First, Boards approve contracts, not MCs. And At $700/ann., It seems impossible the MC would "manage" all contracts. But what does that mean??

Please give the exact wording of that language MC "handles contracts" in your contract with the MC.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


06/30/2018 7:57 PM  
Here we go:

1 Service Contracting - Shall solicit, analyze and compare bids, and negotiate contracts for any requisite grounds maintenance, landscaping, lighting, security services, audit and legal services and all other services required by the Association. The Agent will be the only authorized point of contact with each of the association vendors.

Contractual and Physical Administration - Agent will supervise the maintenance of the common areas, improvements, and equipment of the Association.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:47


07/01/2018 3:55 AM  
Posted By TutaN on 06/30/2018 7:57 PM
Here we go:

1 Service Contracting - Shall solicit, analyze and compare bids, and negotiate contracts for any requisite grounds maintenance, landscaping, lighting, security services, audit and legal services and all other services required by the Association. The Agent will be the only authorized point of contact with each of the association vendors.

Contractual and Physical Administration - Agent will supervise the maintenance of the common areas, improvements, and equipment of the Association.




Those are not uncommon duties of the MC. MC then presents the contracts to the Board for comparison, approval and signature. Having one point of contact is not unusual either. The vendor doesn't need to be taking direction from every homeowner.

I'd never let them be the only point of contact for audit and legal services.

If vendors are not fulfilling their contracts, then the Board can notify them of default of contract. It seems that both parties in this case may have failed. If the Board does not act on poor performance of vendors, then owners can vote in a new Board at the next annual meeting.







Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


07/01/2018 6:03 AM  
Pat, thank you for this useful information. How can you ask the Board to dissolve to vote a new one? Of course, we can present the issues that are not been properly addressed. The main problem we are dealing with is that some Board members are elderly ( over 80 years old), and they have been in this Board for a long, long time. They are very attached to it, and they are basically good friends with the owner of MC. How can we solve this problem without creating a war?

The other issue we discovered yesterday was that the license of the CAM for this subdivision has expired. We asked questions about this issue, but so far no reply from neither the Board nor the MC. We do not know if the MC or the owner of it are up to date with maintaining their certificates or if they have any. So far, they did not show us anything even though we asked to see their certification. Yesterday I found out that in the state of CO. it is required to have a valid, active CAM certificate in order to do business.

AugustinD


Posts:1208


07/01/2018 6:39 AM  
Check your Declaration and Bylaws for how to remove board members. Typically the Declaration or Bylaws require 2/3rds of members to vote for removal. The latter is often hard to achieve. When is the next election, and are all the board members up for re-election? To minimize a war, sneak around quietly lobbying for proxies, explaining why. Be respectful but firm about the problems. Since the manager will figure out what you and your group are up to, he or she will do everything he or she can to keep you all out of office. You are correct that things could get ugly. Sometimes it is the only way to protect one's property interests.

Most or all states allow every HOA membes to have the contact info for all the other members, as part of records viewing. The main purpose of this law is so that members may communicate with each other about problems. The only caveat is that, as soon as a member says do not contact them, you need to respect this.

At all three of the HOAs where I have lived, inappropriate attachment to the manager was a problem. The manager typically did favors for the board members, especially the elderly ones, while being harsh with other HOA members, including practicing selective enforcement.

Good job figuring out that the manager's legally required credentials have expired.
PatJ1
(North Carolina)

Posts:47


07/01/2018 6:47 AM  
TutaN,

Read your By-Laws. The Board is elected at the Annual Meeting if there is a quorum present. Otherwise they can be appointed and can be unseated by calling a Special Meeting which should also be covered in your By-Laws. It's not an easy task and you'll need enough support from other owners to reach quorum. You'll also need people ready to be voted in.

I am not familiar with Colorado, but to not have proper credentials to operate, the MC may have defaulted on his contract. Not much you can do if the Board won't act. Is there a state agency you can report the lapse to? This is very important if the MC has access to your community funds. The license lapse may void his insurance coverage.

The MC may be friends with the current Board, but for $700 a years he's not raking in big money from you. I'd be looking to see if the MC is getting any monies from the landscape company.

$54,000 a year seems very high for single family in arid CO. We have over 10 acres in NC with lots of grass and our annual is under $30,000. We are a condo community so owner's do not maintain any grounds. Know anyone in the landscape business who can provide you with a general quote to compare?

Unless the member's come forward and cause a ruckus, I'm afraid there's very little that can be done except hire an attorney to bring suit against the HOA which is not recommended because it's like suing yourself.

Board members are volunteers. Many have no idea what they're doing. Educate them. Don't beat them up.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


07/01/2018 7:32 AM  
Augustin, thank you for this information.I know the next HOA meeting is later this fall. As far as elections go, I do not know. I will have to dig into it more. I am getting ready to read the Declaration and Bylaws. Thank you again for your help.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


07/01/2018 7:46 AM  
Pat, thank you for all this information. On Monday I will contact DORA ( https://www.colorado.gov/dora )Colorado Dep. of Regulatory Agencies, and also the Insurance Company.

Your comment about "monies from the landscape company" makes perfect sense.

I need to figure out how to get some quotes from different landscaping companies.

I am not planning an going to court. That's why I am here to learn how to solve the problems without going to court. Thank you again for your time.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:796


07/01/2018 9:03 AM  
Have been watching this thread for a couple of days - getting confused.

My sense is that we still haven't gotten an idea of interaction between the property owner (TutaN) and the Board.

Maybe I missed it, but didn't see summary of discussion at a Board meeting. I also didn't see what Tuta's goal was regarding the inquiries.

Tuta ... lots of posts ... could you summarize what you want to occur and what you have done with regards to Board contact and formal interactions?
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:31


07/01/2018 9:16 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 07/01/2018 9:03 AM
Have been watching this thread for a couple of days - getting confused.

My sense is that we still haven't gotten an idea of interaction between the property owner (TutaN) and the Board.

Maybe I missed it, but didn't see summary of discussion at a Board meeting. I also didn't see what Tuta's goal was regarding the inquiries.

Tuta ... lots of posts ... could you summarize what you want to occur and what you have done with regards to Board contact and formal interactions?


Agree with that, $700. a year seems way too low, for that amount you should be lucky if they put stamps on notices let alone replying to emails and complaints.

I would think $700/month.

Also, George is correct, it seems like TutorN is going from one topic to the next without any sense of what is the goal here. Suggest doing a lot more research and then consolidating everything into one letter. Then also make sure you tell them what solutions you have come up with and what solutions are good for the community.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


07/01/2018 9:30 AM  
I did write emails with all my concerns to MC, and I copied all the Board members. So far, from the Board members I heard nothing back. The MC replied to my emails with a copy of the contract, an expired copy of the MAC certificate. The MC did not bother to reply to my questions whatsoever. They just try to ignore us hoping we will give up.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:5950


07/01/2018 9:38 AM  
Having followed this from the beginning, I think Tuta needs to spend time with someone knowledgeable about HOA matters in CO. If you can afford it, Tuta, spend a hour with an HOA attorney (not some other kind). If you have others who agree with you, you all can chip in for one hour's worth of time. Might be $250-$300. There's just too much to learn all at one time. And you're trying to connect dots that don't connect. That's why you're jumping from one topic to the other.

Here's something you need to learn. You say the next "HOA meeting" is later in the fall. What do you mean by "HOA Meeting?" A meeting of the homeowners, also called members meetings, when they vote on directors for the Board? These usually are just once a year. More important for you are BOARD meetings. How often do your bylaws say they must occur? I think in CO they must be open to members (Owners). I think you can ask questions at these board meetings.

I don't think you should try to get bids on landscaping but your current contract --you need to read it-- sounds s way too high. And the MC contract way too. low,
SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:31


07/01/2018 9:39 AM  
Posted By TutaN on 07/01/2018 9:30 AM
I did write emails with all my concerns to MC, and I copied all the Board members. So far, from the Board members I heard nothing back. The MC replied to my emails with a copy of the contract, an expired copy of the MAC certificate. The MC did not bother to reply to my questions whatsoever. They just try to ignore us hoping we will give up.


I’ll echo George, can you summarize the concerns?

TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


07/01/2018 9:50 AM  
Kerry thank you for your help. I agree, there are so many things that I am not familiar with.

Before I talk with a qualified HOA attorney, I needed to figure out some details.

By HOA meeting, I meant a meeting with all the Board members and owners of this subdivision ( once a year). Board meetings are four times a year.

Thank you for your help. It is much appreciate it.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


07/01/2018 10:01 AM  
Yes, the quality of the services that some current vendors offer is not great. Communication is poor, and not enough transparency.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1278


07/01/2018 2:05 PM  
If you want new board members, I think it is generally best to try to do it through regular elections, with a recall only the last resort.

With the annual meeting this fall, that gives you some time to prepare for the election. It is not uncommon for there to be so much apathy that a quorum is not met, no election is held, and the directors just carry on for another year. The real issue will probably come down to how many owners are concerned about the current situation. If it is only you, don't expect much change. If there are quite a few, identify some who are willing to run for the board and campaign to get them elected. This could include gathering proxies if valid in your state and governing docs.

In some associations, all directors are elected every year, others have 2 or 3 year staggered terms, read your governing docs to see how yours are.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


07/01/2018 6:22 PM  
Douglas, thank you. That is a good point: "How many owners are concerned about the current situation?" I will have to find out.
TutaN
(Colorado)

Posts:32


07/01/2018 6:27 PM  
Augustin,

I went back and reviewed the contract again. One other major flaw I found is the fact that the contract does not include: “ The designated manager’s license number”. This omission is in violation of the Code of Colorado Regulations, Secretary of State, State of Colorado 4 CCR 725-7. Does this omission invalidates the current contract? Thank you again for your help.

SheilaJ1
(South Carolina)

Posts:31


07/01/2018 6:36 PM  
Posted By TutaN on 07/01/2018 6:27 PM
Augustin,

I went back and reviewed the contract again. One other major flaw I found is the fact that the contract does not include: “ The designated manager’s license number”. This omission is in violation of the Code of Colorado Regulations, Secretary of State, State of Colorado 4 CCR 725-7. Does this omission invalidates the current contract? Thank you again for your help.



No it does not invalidate the contract, what exactly are you attempting to do? If you point out a few flaws to board, they will just fix them and all your research will be for nothing, what is your goal, get rid of the board or the contract? Or both?
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:796


07/01/2018 7:06 PM  
Tuta,

You need to answer our questions - this cannot be you vs the MC ...they don’t even work for you, they work for the Board.
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