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JohnR4
(Arizona)

Posts:29

01/20/2007 6:41 AM
I would like to do a survey of the folks here. My question to the group is; How much are your montly dues and please provide a brief description of whare you are located and the benifits those dues provide homeowners. I am located in Phoenix AZ. our dues are $52.50 per mo we maintain 35 acres of common grounds with 3 pools, 3 sets of tennis cts, 2 basket ball courts, a small rec. center/office and some community activity programs.

JoyceS1
(Indiana)

Posts:107

01/20/2007 7:36 AM
$52.50 a month is amazing. I'm curious....How many units pay that amount? Are there rentals there as well? I'm an HOA president in Indiana. Our fee covers all exterior surfaces of 14 units, i.e. siding, roofing, gutters as well as driveways, landscaping, lawn, trees. We have a little over 3 1/2 acres to maintain. Very small. We do not have any recreational type facilities such as swimming pools or clubhouse. Just the basic home units to maintain. I have to warn you, you will find each and every HOA is unique depending on the services provided. Not one fee amount fits every situation. Having said that,I will share with you the amount that we pay. Our fee currently is $170 per month per unit. 76% for operating expense and the remaining 24% for reserves. Also I want to emphasize it barely provides enough funds to perform maintenance and no funds for improvements. We are forced to go with the cheapest bids whether or not they are quality services. I, too, am interested in seeing how many respond with their fees and what their fees cover....as well as whether they feel their fee is sufficient.

JohnR4
(Arizona)

Posts:29

01/20/2007 7:43 AM
Our HOA consist of a primary and a sub HOA totaling 1300 member households the primary HOA consists of the single family residences which pay the 52.50 as stated prior. they recieve the benifits of membership as described. the sub association consists of condos. thier benifits include the roof, painting and other building maint. they pay substantially more about $100 more than the single family residences do. the 52.50 is alloted to the primary HOA the remainder is collected by and managed by the sub association

TaraR
(Arizona)

Posts:24

01/20/2007 7:52 AM
I live in Gilbert, AZ. The community includes 74 single-family homes. We are a small community that maintains two small common areas, one community pool, surrounding common walls, we pay electricity for our streets, street sweeper and mail box lights and we have to re-do our surface streets approximately every 14 years (the community owns the streets, not the city). Our monthly dues are $44. However, with all listed, we do not have much in reserves and are restricted to projects. Hope that helps.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

01/20/2007 7:52 AM
tempe arizona, $20/month. we maintain two water retention basins, and a strip of sidewalk along a main road.

JohnR4
(Arizona)

Posts:29

01/20/2007 7:56 AM
please specify how many units and single family residence or condo

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

01/20/2007 7:59 AM
SFR, 40 units. don't own the streets, don't have water bills, pay electric for two street lights.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

01/20/2007 7:59 AM
167 single family homes, we maintain one retention pond and two entrances. $10/month

ShariJ
(Arizona)

Posts:7

01/20/2007 8:46 AM
I live in Mesa, AZ. We have 165 single family homes. We have a ramada area with fireplace, 3 metal picnic tables, and two water retention basins on either side of our gated, commmunity pool. We pay for the pool utilities (water, electricity, pool maintenance), electricity at the ramada and to have the grass mowed, trees trimmed and trash taken from ramada area. Our monthly dues just increased this year to $38.50. We currently have about $30,000 in reserves, but the pool needs replastering and the deck needs to be redone which will deplete our reserves which is why we went up the $3.50 from last year.

Shari

BonnieE
(Illinois)

Posts:176

01/20/2007 12:16 PM
Hi! I am also amazed at the low (as compared to IN and IL) monthly assessments, but this is probably an apples to oranges comparison! My HOA is located in IL, ~45 miles NW of Chicago. We are comprised of 12-13 year old town home-style condominiums – 110 units in 20 buildings. I think we might have a couple of acres of property – no pool, etc. – just landscaped areas and grass. Our monthly assessment is based on unit size and ranges from $126 – 186/month. It covers: landscaping, snow removal, building exteriors (roofs, siding, trim, gutters, downspouts), driveways and visitor parking areas, entryway sidewalk, MC, insurance. For 2007, ~22% of our assessment income goes to the reserve fund – which is lower than recommended in our reserve study (recommends ~26%). Before anyone asks, 3 of our 5 BOD members voted for less spending in 2007. In the past we had been doing more regular maintenance – for the past couple of years we are just barely covering the minimum needed. We have done some capital improvements over past 2 years: replaced driveways and visitor parking areas, restored wood decks, will be removing/replacing all caulking. Is our assessment sufficient? I think not - I think we need to increase the assessments for: increased amount to reserve fund, landscaping replacements, mulching, roof inspection (which has been recommended for 2 years now). Also, we are part of a larger Master HOA, which also includes single-family homes (~400 homes) and another condo group (~100 units) similar to ours. Property includes the required open space needed for managing our storm water (retention and detention ponds), 6 aerator fountains, fencing of the perimeter, entry monuments. There is a $165 annual assessment from each HO to maintain these common areas. I would be especially interested in hearing from HOAs who are in or near larger metropolitan areas and who have a higher cost of living. Some of our BOD members are convinced that everyone else pays much less than we do!

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1469

01/20/2007 2:38 PM
OK Bonnie here goes 132 units in ten 12 family buildings (one is double sized) built in 1992 in the Greater Cincinnati area. We have a pool, clubhouse & exercise room and a couple of acres of common elements, two retention ponds with fountains along with parking areas and one road we share with another community. All of the units are not the same size with the smallest paying $146.42 per month and the largest paying $192.58. There are also 68 garages that the owners pay an additional $6.00 month but the owners of the garages are responsible for all garage maintenance. The Association is responsible for insurance, roofs, siding, landscaping, snow removal and water. We just updated the reserve study last year and are fully funded and in a good position for the next 20 years (knock wood). From talks with the reserve study company there are a lot of local complexes with lower fees that are busy playing catch up. Years of low contributions to reserve funds to maintain low fees are costing them now. Ohio changed the law a couple of years ago regarding reserves in order to cut down on special assessments. Now each association must put at least 10% of their annual operating budget into reserves or the majority of the Association must vote each year to allow special assessments.

JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412

01/20/2007 4:05 PM
North metro Atlanta: 137 homes, swim/tennis community...We pay $450/year (started at $350 in 1998). I think the more homes you have the more people to support amenities. A subdivision nearby has 650 homes, two pools, tennis court and clubhouse. They have 325 homes to support each pool. Another subdivision has 1,200 homes, two pools, clubhouse, playground, nature trails and tennis courts. Same thing, 600 homes per pool. They started with a $600 annual assessment and initiation fee but are now up to $750 for both after two years and they are not completed in build-out yet. As we all know, each neighborhood is totally different from all others and you cannot really compare.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:483

01/20/2007 5:42 PM
My HOA has 313 single-family homes in Meridian, ID. We have one small pool and two parks with playground equipment. No clubhouse or office space. Any fence between common area and homeowner property is the responsibility of the homeowner to maintain, but we do have about 200' of fencing that is the responsibility of the HOA. We also have several common-area pathways through the neighborhood that we are responsible for snow removal and de-icing. Not sure of total acreage of common areas, but I would estimate it around 2-3 acres. The HOA does own and maintain the pumps for pressurized irrigation water provided to every lot in the neighborhood. Our dues are $400/yr. We took over from the developer a little over a year ago, and we currently have a little over $50K in the reserve fund.

DanaB1
(Connecticut)

Posts:148

01/20/2007 6:11 PM
Hey Joyce, You seem to be president of a "Condo Association", not an "HOA" in it's truest form. Home Owners Associations are separate homes with the owners responsible for paying for siding and roofing, etc.; with the association responsible only for the costs of roads, and pools, tennis courts, club houses, etc. They vary as to items listed but you get the jist of what I'm saying. Your costs will be much higher. I live in CT. in a 56 unit condo assc. housed in 13 buildings. We have no amenities. Our complex is underfunded and has been for it's 22 year history. We had to have a $5,0000 special assessment in 1995 to replace roofing. It was never put on correctly anyway but we did not have the money to replace it. Our fees are now $290 with $50 of that earmarked for the improvement project, ie siding and paving. We will be hitting owners with an assessment to fund this project with the common fee ending up at $340/unit. We are putting more money in reserves now but by the time we finish the loan in ten years. We still won't have enough to cover the roofs we'll need. I just got back on the board recently. They had they're heads in the sand, so far it has taken them 2 years to just get bids for the upcoming projects. Ouch. So if any of you think that your underfunded? You probably are. And it doesn't make much difference what anybody else pays. This is an area where purchasers get screwed, they are, many times first time buyers and they go with the price of the unit and common fee. They don't really know to look at the condition of the entire complex along with costs and reserve funds, and record of special assessments levied. I'm done preaching, sorry. lol Dana

DanaB1
(Connecticut)

Posts:148

01/20/2007 6:17 PM
Joyce and Bonnie, After rereading your posts, my only advice to the two of you is to kick up the fees. It sounds like your both running out of money quick. When you can't even maintain the place adequately you're in trouble. Just my 2 cents. Dana

DavidW5
(Virginia)

Posts:70

01/20/2007 9:13 PM
Our "55 or better" community of 650 single family homes in Virginia has a 21,000 sq. ft. clubhouse with indoor and outdoor pools, fitness center, ballroom, etc. We also have tennis courts, putting green, golf driving cage, walking trails and extensive landscaped common areas. Our current dues are $215 per month. This also covers snow removal and trash collection. The developer still subsidizes expenses until all 800 homes are occupied. We assume dues will increase once the developer is gone.

JoyceS1
(Indiana)

Posts:107

01/21/2007 5:34 AM
DanaB1 When our community's documents were formed by the developer, the documents listed it as a condominium. However, our community does not fall under the state's definition of a "condominium" but instead is a Planned Unit Development. An amendment to the documents occurred and the only change to the documents was the elimination of the word "condominium" to the declaration. All the other obligations of maintenance remained in the CC&Rs. We are incorporated and operate as a not-for-profit corporation. It has been a source of confusion....most people don't understand the CC&Rs. Realtors don't seem to help matters either by explaining what persons are buying into. As you outlined, people buying into this concept don't understand that the fees have to increase to keep pace with the cost increases. When they purchased their unit, they had the misconception that the fee being paid then would remain the same "forever." Many elderly on fixed incomes want all the maintenance free living, but don't seem to grasp that "someone" has to pay for it......not only with the maintenance fee, but with their time and oversight by serving on the board.

DavidS3
(Maryland)

Posts:36

01/21/2007 7:34 AM
We live in a 503 home "55 and better" community on the Maryland Eastern Shore. About 80% of the units are detached single family dwellings while the others are attached villas. The only community buildings are a clubhouse (with indoor pool, fitness center, billiards room, card room, library, crafts room and a large all-purpose room) and a small mail pavillion. However, there is extensive landscaping over a large common area, multiple entrance and interior monuments, a lake and over 20 retention ponds to be maintained. Residential services include lawn care, pruning and weed removal, gutter cleaning, snow removal and leaf removal, and account for a little over 40% of our budget. Our monthly assessment this year is $172. Reading the responses to this questioned reinforced in my mind the futility of comparing one fee to another. Each communnity is unique and even if you could find two communities with identical amenities, infrastructure and services, their locations would very likely create a difference in costs. Another factor, for newer communities (ours is about 6 years old)is how the developer/builder chose to finance the early operations. In our case the builder/developer team chose to keep the early assessments artificially low to better attract buyers. With less than full buildout and a low assessment the operating budget naturally ran a substantional deficit. This was financed by a no-interest operating loan from the builder to the HOA (which was builder/developer controlled at that point), that reached about $113,000 at it highest point. The builder/developer accepted unrealistic low bids for service contracts (our first lawn service went belly up in mid-summer) and budgeted about one tenth of what it would cost to maintain the level of attractiveness of the ponds that was there when we moved in. After the first resident was elected to the five person board residents started to take control of the budget. A budget and finance committee was created and town meetings were held to explain the situation. The universal resident response was to stop sliding further into debt, find out what the true costs are and set the assessments accordingly. The builder/developer, to their credit, went along with this and over the last three years the situation has stabilized. We started to repay the loan last year and will complete payments in mid-2008. We commissioned a replacement reserve study and budget the recommended contributions. We now have over $130,000 and will continue to update the model annually. This year's assessment was a $10 increase over last year but there was literally no objections from the residents. This is partly because this increase was exactly as predicted in the 5-year plan they received last year and partly because they recognize the need to protect a major investment. I guess the bottom line of this message is that we no longer care what other communities are paying. We know what our costs are and how to control them and that is all that really matters.

PatrickH
(California)

Posts:197

01/21/2007 7:55 AM
We're a 125 unit townhome community in Orange County California built 20 years ago. Probably about 25-27 buildings on a lot of land by California standards. Dues are $ 225 per month, $ 100 for Reserves, 125 for operating expenses. Largest operating expenses are insurance, (buildings are insured for $ 24 Million replacement costs) and landscaping, we have over 300 mature trees and hundreds more smaller bushes, shrubs and trees. We also own and have to maintain the streets, sidewalks, street lights, fencing, etc. Largest reserve deposits are for roof replacement, (we have those Mexican tile type roofs which are very expensive to replace but fortunately last about 40 years) and building painting, we do that about seven to eight years.

JoyceS1
(Indiana)

Posts:107

01/21/2007 9:07 AM
DavidS3 I am so envious of your situation. You certainly were able to turn things around. Getting the homeowners to recognize the situation was a major accomplishment as well. Count me green with envy! Joyce

DanaB1
(Connecticut)

Posts:148

01/21/2007 9:29 AM
I'll second that Joyce. One other thing I wanted to mention to you Joyce is, "how often do we hear of board members wanting to keep fees low or raising them minutly because of those owners on limited income?" They don't realize by doing that these "limited income people" are really screwed; when down the road they now need to come up with several thousand dollars for a "special assessment"?

BonnieE
(Illinois)

Posts:176

01/21/2007 1:46 PM
Hi all – I found this discussion thread to be quite interesting! I wasn’t looking to compare what we pay with everyone else, but it was interesting to see the wide array of types of managed communities out there – and also found that a number of HOAs face similar issues as we face – BOD members who do not want to raise assessments for required maintenance nor maintain adequate reserve funds, HOs who are uninterested in participating, etc. DanaB1 –right on – except in our situation, some of our BOD members claim they do not want to raise the assessments not only due to those HOs who cannot afford the increase, but claim they, too, cannot afford the increase –- And, yes, we do need to raise our assessments! -- And, I also empathize with you with what you have had to go through with your BOD! I “feel” for you having had that special assessment for the roofs, and now have the high assessments. “They had they're heads in the sand” - yep – seems to describe a few (majority) of our BOD members, too! I am working on getting our inadequate Reserve Study update revised and hopefully that will be a start to getting those heads out of the sand!

BobM5
(California)

Posts:34

01/21/2007 4:59 PM
I'm board president of a 55+ attached condo development in Cathedral City, CA (next to Palm Springs). We just raised our monthly assessment by $20 to $290 a month. This covers operating expenses for pool service, gardening service, trash service, water for all units and common areas including pool and spa, insurance, gas for clubhouse, pool and spa, electric for clubhouse, hallways, garden lighting, and lights in carports. We just finished having a new foam roof installed for $88,000 from reserves. The $20 increase is going into our reserve fund.

TomJ
(Arizona)

Posts:42

01/24/2007 6:48 PM
JohnR4, our dues are $81 per month, just increased from $79 last year and we are one of the highest in our area. I think we have too much landscaping and it is our biggest budget item, $53,103 per year. Of course we have to have the "weeds" called mesquite and palo verde that requires thinning annually or lose them in the monsoon winds. We just combined the tree thinning contract with the landscape contact and saved about $5K. We are on a corner so we get landscaping costs for two streets outside the development plus what is inside. One count was about 400 trees ("weeds') I think. We are a gated community so we pay electric for street lights, maintain our private streets, have a pool and spa. The pool is heated by propane so we turn off the heaters from Dec thru Feb. We do not have recycled water for landscape so that is expensive and just got a bill of $2K for cleaning dry wells. If water much higher, it would be cheaper to put in artificial turf and save water and mowing costs. We have spent quite a bit getting the development in better condition than the developer left it. Coded locks on the pool so we know who was in then vandalism happens, re doing landscaping to prevent damage to fences from water, and water into the propane fill station, etc. Our reserves are a bit over $100K

TomJ
(Arizona)

Posts:42

01/24/2007 6:49 PM
JohnR4, I am in South Chandler and our dues are $81 per month, just increased from $79 last year and we are one of the highest in our area. I think we have too much landscaping and it is our biggest budget item, $53,103 per year. Of course we have to have the "weeds" called mesquite and palo verde that requires thinning annually or lose them in the monsoon winds. We just combined the tree thinning contract with the landscape contact and saved about $5K. We are on a corner so we get landscaping costs for two streets outside the development plus what is inside. One count was about 400 trees ("weeds') I think. We are a gated community so we pay electric for street lights, maintain our private streets, have a pool and spa. The pool is heated by propane so we turn off the heaters from Dec thru Feb. We do not have recycled water for landscape so that is expensive and just got a bill of $2K for cleaning dry wells. If water much higher, it would be cheaper to put in artificial turf and save water and mowing costs. We have spent quite a bit getting the development in better condition than the developer left it. Coded locks on the pool so we know who was in then vandalism happens, re doing landscaping to prevent damage to fences from water, and water into the propane fill station, etc. Our reserves are a bit over $100K

MikeS1

Posts:0

01/25/2007 9:15 AM
During a recent budget review, we had to raise the HOA fees significantly, since the previous board didn't raise the fees at all for several years. This increase was prompted primarily because of the Reserve Study. Properly explained in great detail, the members understood the reason for the increase and the HOA met virtually no resistance. Now during all the discussions, we polled neighboring communities about their fees. It really doesn't matter what other communities are charging. Fees will vary with services, amenities and also larger communities may have lower fees, since there are certain fixed expenses that every HOA must incur regardless of whether there are 50 homes or 500 homes. It comparing apples and oranges. Just do what's right for your community and I wouldn't try to make the comparisons. Good luck.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3726

01/25/2007 9:31 AM
Posted By MikeS1 on 01/25/2007 9:15 AM It really doesn't matter what other communities are charging. Fees will vary with services, amenities and also larger communities may have lower fees, since there are certain fixed expenses that every HOA must incur regardless of whether there are 50 homes or 500 homes. It comparing apples and oranges. Amen Mike. To try to compare is rediculus. Two associations within a mile of my home had quarterly assessments of $40 and $396 - apples and oranges

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

JoyceS1
(Indiana)

Posts:107

01/25/2007 11:08 AM
I've been preaching the applies to oranges comparison to homeowners in my community for the past four years. However, since this thread was started, I found it fascinating nonetheless to learn about other communities' operations, locations and amenities. JoyceS1

JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142

01/25/2007 5:32 PM
A little off the subject, but I received a statement from my HOA saying that they are giving us a "military adjustment" meaning that while my husband is deployed, we don't have to pay any dues during the duration of his tour. I thought this was really awesome and a pleasant surprise. Are there any other HOA's doing the same?

MikeS1

Posts:0

01/25/2007 6:12 PM
We would hope that HOA's used a little common sense when it comes to this issue (yes, it's a little off the subject); but there really doesn't seem to be very precedents on the web with the exception of the June 2004 case in Tampa. I'm sure that you can find this Tampa case on the web and I'm sure that an attorney could shed light on this. The 2004 Tampa case is a heart warming story involving a 42-year-old Riverview man who almost lost his home because he forgot to pay his $200 annual homeowner association fee while deployed in Georgia for the Air Force Reserve. In June, the HOA filed a lien against the reservist's home and the association leaders were considering foreclosure. After it hit the papers, the offers started rolling in. The next thing you know, a pro bono attorney is dropping off a check for 1,148.50 to the association attorney courtesy of a local Tampa Consultant/Contractor. Nice work, Tampa!

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