💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

MichelleZ2 (Illinois)
Posts: 3
Posted:
The treasurer on our board has been extremely reluctant to provide the rest of the board members with up to date financials.
our bylaws state that the treasurer is required to provide the homeowners with a budget every April and we have not seen
one in more than two years. This individual is the only person on the board that has power of attorney, never attends the
board meetings and has been managing the finances, dues, bids, expenses for the past 4+ years. We are getting very concerned.
The board president has made numerous attempts over the past 5+ weeks to get financial details and continues to get nothing
since he has stressed the need for an audit to take place with the majority of the homeowners wanting to move everything to
a property management firm ASAP.

How concerned should we be?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


Michelle,

VERY!!!
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichelleZ2 on 08/10/2010 1:10 PM

How concerned should we be?

You're kidding right. After the treasurer failed to provide a budget two years ago the Board should have removed the person from that position and appointed someone else. Oh, wait no one else wanted to be bothered to do the work required so the BOD just crossed their fingers and hoped for the best. Remove this person ASAP from treasurer and get an audit.

Note I said remove from the position of treasurer not from the Board. In most cases that would require a vote of the homeowners.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michelle,

I agree with Glen. But, I must caution that you make certain you get all the financial records from this gal. If she won't turn over the financial reconds then have your attorney send her a demand letter. Then I would consider hiring a CPR to preform an audit. Oftentimes when a tresurer doesn't want to provide info it means they have something to hide. I'm just wondering why it's taken the board so long to think something might be wrong.

BTW, what do you mean by saying that the treas is the only board member who has power of attorney? POA for what and to act for whom???
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
Like others say, you should be concerned and should remove the Treasurer.

You might also try going to the bank and getting an account statement. Hopefully, the Board at least knows what bank the HOA uses. Even if you can't get access right away, you can find out from the bank what needs to be done to get access and then do it.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
How concerned? Your bank accounts may be already gone. Good luck.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Michelle,

Yes, as others have said you should be concerned.

Comment: It could be possible that the individual just doesn't know what they are doing and too embarrassed to admit it. It doesn't alleviate the issue but it may alleviate the fear of something else.

Question: Are you still under builders/developers control or is it totally the members who are in charge of the HOA?

Question: Power of attorney? For what (as i have never heard of an officer needing a power of attorney)?
MichelleZ2 (Illinois)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thank you for the feedback. I should share that my boyfriend joined the board as secretary (we live together, but he is the owner) 5 months ago in hopes to get to the bottom of this chaos. The treasurer in question has had too much power for too long with the homeowners finally getting the hint that something might be wrong. Yes ... it is crazy that it has taken this long for everyone to open their eyes to what could potentionally be a BIG problem. However, I think folks simply wanted to think that all was fine since nobody wanted to take on the role for treasurer. As of right now, she has been given till noon this Saturday to provide the financials. If nothing is handed over, this matter will be escalated to the attorney. As of right now, the treasurer is stating that she will not pull everything together until she knows who is doing the audit and how much it would cost and that there would need to be a vote to approve an audit. This is nuts! Fortunately, the president has the access to the bank records, and was hoping that the treasurer would cooperate (obviously not the case). Would the president and secretary have the right to inform homeowners of possible wrong doing by the treasurer "if" she continues to refrain from sharing financials? We do not want to be quick to make false accusations, but something is just not right.

Thank you again for your feedback and support.
MichelleZ2 (Illinois)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thank you for your feedback. Our HOA is just homeowners (no developer or property management firm).
However, it was collectively decided by the homeowners and other board members recently that everything should be moved to a property management firm which is one of reasons why we are trying to get our arms around the financials.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Yes there should be a vote for when to perform an audit. However, that vote should be at the board level.

As others have suggested, and since your mate is on the Board, recommend to President to call a board meeting and at the meeting call a vote to remove the treasurer and to appoint a new one. Officers are typically board members but, unless your governing documents specify this, do not have to be. Therefore, is someone isn't willing to step forward to fill the shoes within the Board, the board may be able to appoint someone from outside the board to fill that position (check your documents and have someone ready to go).

At this same meeting, the board should vote on holding an audit and they should have someone in mind to perform it.

Hope this helps,

Tim
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
As of right now, the treasurer is stating that she will not pull everything together until she knows who is doing the audit and how much it would cost and that there would need to be a vote to approve an audit.


Tell her she doesn't have to worry about that anymore. She is no longer the treasurer.

As far as the audit, I dont know what your docs say about spending money, you may not need to vote. You may want to do your own audit. You know the expenses better than any accountant. Following a money trail isn't hard.

BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
Hi Michelle,

Kudos to your boyfriend for stepping up and getting on the Board and being pro-active about addressing these issues.

Just to clarify (as until you had mentioned this, I and likely several others, mistakenly assumed you are the homeowner, if not actually a Board member, given how much you know about these issues)….you are not a homeowner, not on the Board, and not a part of the HOA.

Is the HOA a condominium association?

In any event, I generally agree with the prior posters. As a comment - I find it hard to believe that the homeowners have continued to pay assessments and not requested a budget nor end of year financial reports for more than 2 years.

Good luck to the Board,
Bonnie

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michelle,

I understand why the BOD is concerned about being provided financial statements, but what is even more important is to be given all the financial records of the assn. The current treasurer should be removed from that position immediately and another board member appointed to replace her. If she is not willing to turn over all the financial records to the board then have your attorney send her a demand letter. The records are much more important than the financial statements. A CPA does not need financial statements to perform an audit; he'll prepare his own financial statements, but he does need to have the financial records. It's apparent to me the treasurer does not want to be cooperative.

At this point you have no proof of any wrong doing on the part of the treasurer. Until an audit is performed you will not know what the state of the finances of the assn is. So, I would not recommend saying anything to the members about the treasurer. If the BOD wants to tell the members something just state that a new treasurer has been appointed and that a CPA is being contacted to perform an audit. I see no need to state why a new treasurer has been appointed. If the audit turns up some wrong doing (meaning embezzlement)on the part of the treasurer only then should the members be informed. In other words if it turns out that the assn would need to press charges against the treasurer only then should the members be informed about what the treasurer has done.

One other important point. Be very forthright with the CPA about why you want an audit performed. Let him know how secretive the treasurer has been and that she would not prepare any financial statements. Ask him to be sure to look for any signs of embezzlement. Also the audit should go back to the year she became treasurer.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
The board as a whole has allowed this sneakiness to persist. The members should be told the truth. It's their money being handled by people they presume to be representing their community investment in their best interest.

Actiing as if this is some sort of personnel issue may further build suspicion as the dues payers learn the story. After all, nothing improper is alleged except the fact that the board isn't getting financial documentation as it has a right to demand.
SteveG4 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
i ask these things:

where are the records kept?
does any other board member have access to the computer?
if you need bank statements, can the board add to the signature card?

i ran for our board on the position of open records and decisions....our homeowners are coming around to this, and are starting to question why things were done differently before.
PattiR1 (Colorado)
Posts: 2
Posted:
If I may put in my two cents' worth...
First of all, I am glad to see so many intelligent, literate responses to the question. I have lived in a Colorado HOA since 1989, but our HOA's sole purpose, as stated in our Articles of Incorporation, is maintenance and snow removal on our road system. We are a ~130-member mountain community in Colorado. Think dirt roads at 7200 ft. elevation. All our HOA does is move dirt and move snow. We have no covenants or restrictions.
I was on our HOA Board back in 1992-1994, and now, through a series of unfortunate events, am back on the Board again, as Secretary.
To the question: YES, you should be worried! Our HOA went through this back in the early 1990s, and a few of us had to go to a lawyer---at our own expense---and obtain a written legal opinion stating that the HOA's records should be open for inspection by ALL menbers " at reasonable times." which the attorney defined in his letter.
What you need to think about is what could happen if some wing-nut decided to file suit against the Board---for example, for breach of fiduciary duty---if there is no oversight by the Board of the HOA's financial management and expenditure of members' dues.
Consult your governing documents: your state statutes usually supersede your bylaws, but states vary on this. If anything in your bylaws allows Board members or HOA members to call for an audit, do it. Our state laws in Colorado allow for members to inspect the HOA's records---have as many members as you can contact call for an immediate inspection of ALL records. Put pressure on your treasurer. Our HOA's treasurer, about 25 years ago, ran off with about $15,000 and burned the HOA's records in a wood stove in her house.
Be afraid--be very afraid.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Patti,

How can you call your org an HOA that is required to abide by CO HOA statutes if you don't have covenants and restrictions (CCRs)? Surely your governing documents consist of more than a set of bylaws.
EverettC (Maryland)
Posts: 90
Posted:
Michelle,

Like Tim, I wonder what why the treasurer would have a power of attorney (and why the BOD or individual board members, would give her one).

In addition to removing her as treasurer, whoever (BOD or individual members) gave her a POA should revoke the POA in writing sent to her - and to anyone that you know that it has been given to.

Everett
KarenW10 (Georgia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Our treasurer did the same and turns out she stole $14,000. We were able to prove it through the bank statements. Hopefully, your treasurer is not the only signer on the account. Get the records and see for yourselves what is going on.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here