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Subject: Length of time to gather signature approvals?

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KK2
(Arizona)

Posts:4

08/09/2010 2:49 PM
Our HOA is currently trying to collect enough signatures to update our CC&Rs. Is there a length of time that we must get the signatures signed by? Our current CC&Rs state that you must be a member in good standing. Do the signatures have to from members that are in good standing at the time we file the amendments or only when we gather the signatures? (In other words... if we get a signature from a member in good standing then before we are completed, that member goes through foreclosure, is that signature still valid or not?) Thanks for any advice...

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3247

08/09/2010 3:51 PM
KK2, A lot of this will be specific to your CC&Rs. My understanding for AZ is that there may not be voting by proxy (Mary will correct me if I am wrong). Typically, a date must be set to vote on the change, proper notice given and the ballots will have to be cast and counted. If the signatures are to petition the board for a meeting date, then there is no time limit on the gathering. Typically the members must be in good standing at the time the petition is submitted (and a good BOD would check). This is why I had at least 10% more then required when I submitted my petitions. If the signatures are for an actual vote/ballot, my understanding is that the vote must be cast by x date and ballots (if voting is allowed by mail) will have to be sent to all members at the same time with a specific date they must be returned by. Again, all of this will depend on the actual wording of your Associations legal documents, specifically the CC&Rs and how to amend them, your voting procedures (usually found in the bylaws) and State law. Hopefully, Mary can provide more info but it would be helpful if you could provide the exact wording of the CC&Rs where it discusses how to amend them. Tim

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:4647

08/09/2010 5:01 PM
KK2, I doubt there is a time limit unless it is imposed by your association. I know of one HOA which tried unsuccessfully to amend for 3 years and failed because they required 90% of all owners approval. Owners who had approved moved so then the new owners signature was required. All OWNERS should be allowed to vote on amendments to the CC&Rs not just MEMBERS in good standing. MEMBERS in good standing refers to votes of the HOA; but does not apply when OWNERS are voting to amend Covenants which apply to every OWNER.

MaryA1

Posts:0

08/10/2010 7:39 AM
KK2, When you say "collect signatures" I'm thinking you really mean to collect ballots. Instead of going door-to-door, why isn't the board sending a mail-in ballot to vote on the CCR amendments as that is the required procedure in AZ? Even if your CCRs give the BOD the authority to collect ballots this way, you must abide by state law. Members can only vote by mail-in ballot or in person at the meeting. Generally speaking, most CCRs state a meeting must be called and ballots cast. The notice of the meeting should state the date by which the ballots must be returned unless it is to be cast in person. Also, remember proxys are prohibited in AZ. Are you certain that the vote to amend the CCRs is only for members in good standing? Is that what the amendment article states? I would be surprised because usually "all members of the assn" have a right to vote to amend the CCRs and to terminate the HOA. There may be other times when only members in good standing can vote, such as for board elections. On the other hand, if, by saying "collect signatures" you mean collecting signatures for a petition to ask the board to amend the CCRs, then any member should be able to sign. "Members in good standing" only applies to voting not signing a petition. If a member signs a petition then moves or his home is foreclosed and he no longer owns the property then his signature would be voided on the petition.

KK2
(Arizona)

Posts:4

08/10/2010 11:58 AM
TimB4, To be more specific, we have very old CC&R and By Laws (developed in 1980 and never amended). We have gone through an update to current laws and standards and are trying to get owner approval to the amendments. We have held two meetings to gather votes/approval signatures approving the amendments. We did not reach the required 75% (as stated in our CC&Rs). So we have been going door to door trying to gather more votes/approval signatures. We have been doing this for about a year and 6 months and are 3 vote/approval signatures away. Some of the owners that voted their approval are no longer the owner of record. We are trying to understand if that vote/approval is no longer valid or if we have a time limit to gather votes/signatures. Our CC&Rs, By Laws and (to the best of our knowledge) state laws (AZ) do not limit the time to gather the votes/approval signatures. - Ken -

KK2
(Arizona)

Posts:4

08/10/2010 12:04 PM
RogerB, Thanks for the reply. Your example is exactly what we are facing. Are debate is if we have a time limit and if the people that have moved on are still valid signatures. I did misspeak before... you are correct, all Class A members (owners vs original developer) can vote.

KK2
(Arizona)

Posts:4

08/10/2010 12:19 PM
MaryA1, WOW... thanks for that response. That is great information. Can you point me to the AZ laws you are referring to? We interrupted AZS 33-1812 to allow us to go door to door to gather signatures because it was another "form of delivery". Are we all wrong here? Background... ARS 13-1812 A. Notwithstanding any provision in the community documents, after termination of the period of declarant control, votes allocated to a unit may not be cast pursuant to a proxy. The association shall provide for votes to be cast in person and by absentee ballot and may provide for voting by some other form of delivery. Notwithstanding section 10-3708 or the provisions of the community documents, any action taken at an annual, regular or special meeting of the members shall comply with all of the following if absentee ballots are used: 1. The absentee ballot shall set forth each proposed action. 2. The absentee ballot shall provide an opportunity to vote for or against each proposed action. 3. The absentee ballot is valid for only one specified election or meeting of the members and expires automatically after the completion of the election or meeting. 4. The absentee ballot specifies the time and date by which the ballot must be delivered to the board of directors in order to be counted, which shall be at least seven days after the date that the board delivers the unvoted absentee ballot to the member. 5. The absentee ballot does not authorize another person to cast votes on behalf of the member. B. Votes cast by absentee ballot or other form of delivery are valid for the purpose of establishing a quorum. C. Notwithstanding subsection A of this section, an association for a timeshare plan as defined in section 32-2197 may permit votes by a proxy that is duly executed by a unit owner. D. For the purposes of this section, "period of declarant control" means the time during which the declarant or persons designated by the declarant may elect or appoint the members of the board of directors pursuant to the community documents or by virtue of superior voting power.

MaryA1

Posts:0

08/10/2010 3:40 PM
KW, You have the right AZ law. I was told that some HOA's use Co. voting machines and that would be the "other form of delivery". I don't think it was meant to mean going door-to-door to collect ballots.

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