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JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:243

08/16/2010 9:38 AM
Also, if you have bad roofs.....you might have a class action suite that you could file. You need to get in touch with some law firm who would investigate this. Leaky roofs are no small item since you can have mold issues and now you are talking big money. We lived in an HOA that did a class action over something similar and WON! See if there are anyother common defects amongst the owners. That class action in our old community resulted in each owner getting about $15-16K. They also has issues with rust in the sand they used in the stucco mix and so most of the houses looked like they had freckles where they has rust spots.

JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:243

08/16/2010 9:54 AM
I sent a post but it hasn't recorded yet and that is weird.If you have losts of roof problems, you may have a class action suite against the builder!!!! We did this in an HOA we lived in and the owners won! The law firm was based in Tucson and the community was called Terravita in Scottsdale. There were not only bad roof, but bad stucco because there was iron in the sand they used for the stucco mix and so most homes had "freckles" of rust that kept recurring even though painted over. Each owner got about $15-16K on the settlement. Roof leaks can be a big deal because of potential mold issues. See if you can get som law firm that specializes in this kind of stuff to get interest. I would guess the firm will base it's interest on how much money they think they can collect!

JoeO1

Posts:0

08/16/2010 9:57 AM
Joanne, Yes, our group has been looking at a class action lawsuit. We are looking for a lwayer to respresent this coomunity who is a "PRO HOA" and deals with members of the Associations. Any ideas of what kind of lawyer we need and where to find him or her? With so much documented evidence of incompetence and the current condition of the complex would they do the case on contingency? We need to consider a class action lawsuit against the following; Does this look OK? Class Action Lawsuit for the below violations should bring in the needed monies to fix the rest of this place. This will be a long and drawn out process that the community will have to accept. The E&D insurance of Every Board of Director as well as MC will be sought. 1) Violation of the Declaration -"Allowing this complex to fall apart and not fixing the roofs"/ No reserve fund for roof replacement/ increasing dues or issuing emergency assessments without any vote by association members 2) Mismanagement- MC not communicating to association members and no documentation, mismanaging monies 3) Incompetence by the Board of Directors and MC- Allowing Asbestos removal in our homes for years now by "Rip and Skip" and putting the association members at health risks-Not documenting activities. This is how we will save our community: Step One: REPLACE THE ROOFS/Porches- "STOP THE BLEEDING" and "Save Our Complex" Step Two: Start to paint this place and bring up property values. Step Three: Thank our lucky stars! Thanks, Joe

JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:243

08/16/2010 10:06 AM
The Miller Law Firm - Online Press - SCG group sues WebbJan 17, 2002 ... Homeowners file $100 million class action suit ... in two other Webb developments -- Terravita in north Scottsdale and Anthem in New River. ... www.constructiondefects Let the attornies figure out the actionable defects. They did take this without any retainer because it was a community of many homes which translates to many dollars. The attornies hire contractors to come in and evaluate and test and do all kinds of investigating. When I went online, I see there is another suite against Del WEbb at another complex called Anthem. Call the Miller firm for a reference in your area.

JoeO1

Posts:0

08/16/2010 10:10 AM
Joanne, Great information! Thanks so much for your help! All the Best, Joe

JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:243

08/16/2010 10:17 AM
My pleasure Joe. I got great great support and help from this site a couple of years back when 3 of us were fighting a board and it was that help that resulted in getting our community back on track and all three of us are now on the board! We still have a ton more to do and I use this site when we get stuck and it has always been most helpful. Good Luck!

DanielH1
(California)

Posts:481

08/16/2010 11:46 AM
There's a point when you are better off getting out, however you can. HOAs don't always work. Like some companies, some HOAs are too far non-functional to save. It is the same as if a giant meteor hit your complex; the hole may not be worth filling in and rebuilding upon. The HOA system has its flaws: * HOAs are a democracy so majorities will have the power to override/ignore/abuse minorities. * HOAs are essentially companies and, just because you happen to live next door to someone, doesn't mean that you should start a company together. * People usually prefer cheap fees early on in exchange for big special assessments later. So, once a complex is 20 - 25 years old (the typical age were roofs, roads and other items need replacement), it makes business sense to sell out and move on to a more recently built complex before the big special assessments start coming. By allowing people to sell their home and leave the HOA, later owners subsidize earlier owners. There's an incentive have cheap fees early on, underfund reserves and sell before the SHTF.

JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:243

08/16/2010 12:17 PM
Daniel, I could not agree with you more about knowing when to get out. The problem in today's world is some folks are too far upside down to leave. Renting them out is not an option for some either so it is a real dilema. Our complex is over 30 yrs old and if it is not one thing, it is another. Our underground irrigation system is getting rubberbanded together and would be a million dollar nightmare to replace.We are only 79 units so that scares everyone to death. Hoa living is not for all people and when you have a control freak or two in the complex, that is also a nightmare. We have one owner who is so obnoxoius and offensive, that he cannot contact any board member directly because of his abuse. One must really weigh the pluses and minuses before purchasing.

DanielH1
(California)

Posts:481

08/16/2010 1:44 PM
Some people don't have any good choices, maybe through no fault of their own or maybe though some fault of their own. Making a bad investment isn't a sin, anyway, and, sometimes, you have no choice but to buy the less bad of two terrible alternatives (e.g. buying in a poorly run HOA vs high rent). HOAs do seem to be regressive. In every HOA, it seems that there is one group who has enough money to sell and move at any time and another group that is trapped in their houses and can't afford to move. The "rich" group says nothing about HOA fee increases but the "poor" group complains bitterly so HOA fees stay cheap and reserves get underfunded. In time, the "rich" people see what's happening (or just get more rich) so they eventually sell and move out to bigger/newer/nicer places, replaced by more of the "poor" group who cannot afford to move. Then, as the complex ages, fees go up and special assessments are needed and the very large "poor" group really, really can't afford it now. So, sadly, HOAs tend to self-select poor people who can't afford to move and those people often pay higher fees for less service than the rich group. Poor people end up paying for the rich to have cheap fees. It is often said that "HOA living isn't for everybody." But, living in a good HOA is probably for more people, than living in a bad HOA. A few HOAs are in such terrible shape that they really aren't for anybody at all.

JoeO1

Posts:0

08/18/2010 8:55 PM
TMMC Handles Puppet Board by keeping the Strings tied and Controlling the meeting On August 17 at 7:00pm “Some Board Members fly the Coop” On a hot evening as the sun went down the people of Highline Meadows entered the Church to attend the meeting of the Highline Meadows Condo Association. As folks entered, and signed there owner information in, proxies for voting were handed over. One organized group of owners who represents the Highline Meadows Reclamation Project (RC's ) handed in 18 Proxies electing there Board of Director Candidate ( BODC) for an open position on the Board of Directors. Flyer's were handed out by the Reclamation project (RC's) volunteers to the small group of 35 to 40 homeowners present at the meeting. From the start of the meeting, it was clear that the Board of Directors were nervous and sitting quietly, allowing TMMC, to control virtually the whole meeting. She answered most every question, with the exception of two blow ups, by the President and the Newly elected Member at Large. The Usual, shouting at members, from the Secretary was also heard, but for the most part, this board was easily being controlled by TMMC and it showed! “She had the Puppet strings tied”! Only Approx 23 vote proxies and about 40 owners were present as the official meeting was ended and a general meeting opened. We did not reach the 151 required quorum. Hindman Sanchez, the attorney was present for the meeting. A slide show was presented by TMMC, as the question of “why we are paying the Maintenance men executive salary's came up” by a Reclamation Project Member (RC) with proper certifications, and why “almost twice as many jobs where being sent to third part vendors”? “161” of these jobs went to these 3rd party vendors relating to; pool, plumbing, drains, paint, porches, electrical, pond, lift station, Roofs, landscape, HVAC etc. As usual, TMMC explained that the “maintenance personnel cannot be everywhere” and that “they would require special tools”. It was also found that one of the maintenance personnel possesses some sort of “removal certifications” ...most likely dealing with Asbestos's. There was no mention of the Certification's that the other well payed maintenance man has, since he is making well over 60K – 70K per year. Also, it was not discussed that many of these special tools needed could be “cheaply rented” two miles down the road for most jobs the vendors where doing. The President would not answer why we are paying 120K + executive salaries, but the Maintenance man did point out had lived at the complex for 3 years and been on board for 7 years. As the slide show went on, many people in the room had question's relating to the complex. At one point, TMMC questioned “the knowledge “ of the Roof Repair cost for the last 4 years to Reclamation Person (RC) representative. He said “I guess about 40K” as people in the room laughed. Then she explain, that it cost was over 146K from 2006 to the present at which the RC responded “ So you folks wasted 146K on “substandard repairs” and that the roofs were “being fixed incorrectly with tar” and that “they would all leak again” (verified by Mike Dewitt with Owens Coring-Roof Manufacturer) because he has encountered over 13 reoccurring leaks after repairs in his own unit and that they were “throwing there money away!” At this point, The Secretary got up, in a emotional voice, and exclaimed “What were we supposed to do!... We didn't know they were using that to fix the roofs”. As the meeting went on, at one point the Board Member at Large (BMAL) shouted out to the RC member “What proof do you have that this place is going into condemnation”, at which the RC explained ,“he did not know what he was talking about. At this the BMAL held up the handout by the RC representatives (18) at the meeting and said “right here it says we are going into condemnation....How do you know this???” “Is this “Yours”!!, at which the RC said that is a “community group effort” At this, the RC explained that “the structure of the property had not been properly evaluated, and that the board and city had several chances to inspect the roofs, structure and porches to insure the “safety of this community” At this, the BMAL stated the “same thing” at which many of the people including our Candidate for the Board (BODC) firmly stated, “ THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SAYS”, as the Board member (BMAL)was visibly getting upset about the answer and “continued ranting”on... Finally, there was clarification that the questions to the board stated the following; (From Hand Out) 14)Does the Board have any plans for condemnation if the city comes in and declares this complex condemned?” Now as you can see the question relates to “if”, so the Board member got very excited over nothing. Unless “it” happens. The meeting went on, as the financial were presented. TMMC appeared to explain to our Board of Director Candidate (BODC) at the meeting that information had been presented on the budget by person who did not understand it and attempted to convince him that when the budget numbers are sent to the Auditors like, Dix and Barrett, that they use a worksheet to find a difference, and then after that audit those difference are than updated to the old budget numbers presented. At This, the Candidate that served on the Board as Vice president for a year (BODC)and just resigned recently said “ No, that's not true”. He also explained that he had “Significant background working in accounting as a auditor and understood it clearly. At this, the RC got up to showed the actual original numbers report which clearly showed a 376K difference between the budget financial numbers ending June of 2008 to the Approved Budget by the Board dated 2010. The RC explained that these numbers varied as much as 99K in some categorizes, and as much as 2K in others, and all in between, throughout the budget. At This, TMMC explained that “ The numbers you are looking at are for the calender years of 2008”. The RC explained that the monthly Meeting of February 2008 clearly show that the board wanted to start to go to a calender year of budgeting” (recommended by the auditors) Another words...this could start in July of 2008 as the calendar year. It was obvious at this point the Board President was getting heated as the “BOCD” got up and Explained “OK, this is my two minutes, as he explained, that this Budget variance information for 2008 was given to the board prior to this meeting and that he never heard from the board as was discussed with TMMC. He explained that the the Board was supposed to meet with the RC member to review his findings, which never happened, and that the board never went into Mediation with the RC. At this “ The President” Firmly said that “this was incorrect” and that the RC said, He “did want to Mediate”, and sent a letter explaining that. The “BOCD” then said that “does not matter” At this point the “BOCD” costively said to the president, Alan **** “you don't understand ” and got up in disgust and left the meeting. The view point as reviewed “after the meeting” from several owners was that this “It was obvious that this current board of directors has no intentions or concerns about the numbers in the budget and have allowed TMMC to control the books. It is obvious they do not want to discuss any potential errors or omissions” As the meeting went on, other members of community, as well as, RC members, presented question's from everything from the Landscape, grass dying, to the Fences and ground looking ghetto like, to the porches and paint. TMMC mentioned that they had purchased a large amount of split rail for the property and that sprinklers were being worked on. Some community members complemented the Maintenance Personnel, Management company and TMMC and Board for there achievements. Also, it was mentioned that there is a new website for the association at Highline Meadows com.. we could not find it. As the meeting neared ending the question arose form a RC member of to “What the Board was going to do about the Special Assessment issued in 2008 that was 'found to be “illegal in Arapahoe county court for two homeowners who were sued”. At that, there was slight hesitation from the Board and TMMC on how to answer the question, but she (TMMC) did say that “it was true” and that “Members were welcome to “ask for the money back”, but she (TMMC) warned that if those monies where returned that those people would have to repay the monies in the 2010 special assessment since they would be crediting those people who paid the assessment of 2008 and asking for those monies for those who did not pay. The Unofficial meeting was then declared ended.......... as a bewildered feeling was sensed in the room.... as the sheep walked back to there pasture at Highline Meadows. Some significant numbers presented at the meeting; 1st Buildings for roof replacements: 454, 409-411, Building 130 No Loan Available for Roofs- Roof Cost est:60 month loan 2 Million Dollars 3 Bedroom = 9,000 dollars per unit 2 Bedroom = 6,000 dollars per unit Special Assessment- Roads,Fire, porches, garages, paint etc 4,214 .00 per Home Other Notes: Delinquents: 55% on Time, 26% prepay 44% off site, 53% on site 13% collectible 6% delay 114,744.00 in collectibles J&S Lawsuit cost 57,358.00 Disclaimer: This document is being written based on attendance and notes presented at the annual meeting. The author has attempted to present the details of the meeting as he or she see's it and is no way an actual transcription of events or “quotes”of peoples involved. The author has made every attempt to accurately describe the events and spoken word of the meeting. This document is written to inform the community of details mentioned in the meeting any number misquotes are purely based on notes provided by attending members. This publication is copyrighted and may in no way or form be distributed with consent of the author. Any Ideas, view point's, or added items are strictly added to benefit the article and should not be taken as actual fact. Copyright 2010 RC

JoanneD1
(Arizona)

Posts:243

08/18/2010 9:19 PM
Joe, This is way too much information to comprehend. I guess I wonder why the attorney was there and did he have anything to add? Basic stuff I wonder about is do you have two signers on the checks that are written from your operating account? You MUST have some checks and balances. You need a finance committee to preform annual audits. Our state laws require that. The Members of the financial committee CANNOT be current Board members or served on the Board for the prior 12 months. It is all about your governing documents. Your association should have something in the governing documents that make permit your membership to vote on a budget at an Annual Budget Meeting and the Board should stick to that. We have divided our monies into two categories.....one for the operating expenses of the complex and the other is for the reserves/capital improvements. Money is NOT taken out of the reserve to cover operating expense. Special assessments are voted on and must have SPECIFIC purposes....not just for the sake of dumping money into an account. Our membership likes to feel that they are in some control of where the funds go and this practice fullfills that need. your place does sound like it is out of control. Wish I could give you a better first impression.

JoeO1

Posts:0

08/18/2010 9:28 PM
Thanks JoeJoanneD1, I know it's complicated!!!!!!!!!!!!! We will survive...... I just wanted to share the information. Its funny when you know the end is near and you just don't want to accept it. Look, we have a small country here in the US and the people don't have a voice in what happens. In a HOA in Colorado the people don't have a voice....or a vote unless quorum is met... We are Screwed! But....... don't worry because the truth will prevail and justice will come! Thanks Joe

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