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SusanK5
(Utah)

Posts:22

03/04/2010 2:27 PM
Need to find out what you HOA does about Residents/Renters. Do you allow them to come the the HOA meetings? Do they communicate with the property management company? Do they communicate directly with the board on their issues? Let me know how your HOA handles this.

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:530

03/04/2010 3:40 PM
Susan, Since our meetings are open, renters are allowed to attend. However, most do not. As a resident they get copies of our newsletters, which are delivered door to door. Some renters are potential buyers and desire to become involved with the Association. Those that volunteer are allowed to be appointed to committees but the actual appointment is a decision of the Board. We have also discovered that some renters are identified as proxies for the member. Sometimes a resident renter has more interest in keeping things within compliance than a non-resident member. All of our residents are treated the same for enforcement issues. If the resident is a renter and fails to comply after two attempts (1 verbal and 1 written), the enforcement process is then directed at the member (as the member is ultimately responsible for their guests and residents to obey the covenants/guidelines). I suspect that you are asking your question because there is an issue you need to address. Best advise I can offer is to treat all residents, be they members or not, the same. Use common courtesy and professionalism. Tim

SusanK5
(Utah)

Posts:22

03/04/2010 4:59 PM
Hi Tim Thanks for your reply. We do have an issue. But let me give you some background. Our CC&Rs say it is up to the board whether they will allow the renters/residents to attend or speak at the meetings. So far we haven't done that. We have had issues with renters calling the property management company to have repairs done or other problems they have which are supposed to be addressed by the owner or the management company the owner has designated. They even got annoyed once because our management company would not come out and light their furnace immediately! So on to the problem. I sent an email to a management company of one of the rentals in our complex asking if someone lived in a condo he manages. He said he didn't know and would check. I said thanks and asked if he would please let them know the person who cleans our grounds had found two bags of trash behind the dumpster by their bldg and it had pieces of mail on top with the person whose name I gave him. The management company passed on my home email address, my work email address and now this woman is sending me two or three emails a day saying I had intercepted her mail and she had contacted the postmaster about it and I was going to be prosecuted and she is also going to bring a discrimination suit against us because we discriminate against renters. I emailed the management company and told them not to give out my work email and said I didn't want to recieve any more of their tenants email. The one this morning said that she had the right to email me and wanted me to prove the piece of mail we have came from a garbage bag not her mail box. So far I haven't responded to her emails, only the management companies. I don't feel it was very professional of them to pass on my email address. At this point I am ready to send a letter to the owner and tell him he needs to use a management company that deals with his tenants and doesn't pass them on to us to handle. Maybe we have the worst renters in the world but to date since I have lived here(7 1/2 yrs) we have had 3 police raids on condos that were rented(one looking for a Utah's most wanted, one for a guy who ran over a policeman and then took off, when they blocked the exits I had a police car on the lawn in front of my bldg and another for a person who failed to report to federal prison). I have been told I should watch my back(this was for sending warnings about rule infractions) and they have ridden horses through here and there was a large pile of horse waste in the parking lot. They have also had business's they run out of their condos which is against our CC&Rs and the list goes on. So, I and the other board members feel that we do treat everyone equally and fairly. The difference seems to be that when their is a warning we have to send the owners say sorry it won't happen again and the renters are very beligerant to say the least. I felt like asking the property management company to ask them please to put their garbage in the dumpster was nice. Give me some ideas on how to handle this please and thanks for your help and comments.

HelenK1
(Washington)

Posts:68

03/04/2010 5:17 PM
We have renters address their issue through the unit owners Which is not to say that they don't come to me and complain but I make it clear that I am not their apartment manager I am on the board of the condo association. Your pm should be told the same thing and tell the tenants they need to go through the owner (cases of plumbing emergencies would be exceptions)and the pm in question that gave your email should be told in no uncertain term that since he is managing that unit it is his responsibility to deal with that tenant. Block the emails from the tenant

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5152

03/05/2010 12:26 AM
I could be wrong here because of some state statutes but it seems to be a pretty strong consensus that Helen is pretty much on the money, with maybe a tweak or two built into individsual documents. Primarily, it is the Boards mandate to protect the association. Their mandate is not to manage rental property on private property, their responsibility is to the association. If rental property is allowed that responsibility falls entirely on the homeowner. The renter usually has no vested right in the association. It is a far leap to be civil to someone and assume that means they have a vote in running the association. If a mutual benefit is derived from the renter participating in some activities of the association, all well and good but no where are you going to find that anyone outside an owner (member) of the association has a vested interest, unless it is addressed specifically in your documents. Renters rights should be specified by the lease agreements and approved by the association if they impinge on any common property owner by the association. The Board must settle all renters problems through the homeowner. If any owner, visitors, renter, treaspasser, guest, whoever violates a restriction while on property under control of the associations the association must enforce the rules, laws, whatever equally. The above will, in part, usually fit, it won't always. The members of the association that are paying the frieght (dues) carry the power as the association, not a bunch of individuals serving personal agendas. A good Management company would know this and serve to buffer any problems and serve as a spokeman for the Board and in turn the association documents. It would not act as a rental agency and would direct these issues to the Homeowner. I would take this M/C to task for not easing the disagreements. If your board wants to allow renters at Board meetings, I would have it in the documents and restrictions would be included. Our Board meeting are open and I suspect guests would be welcome and maybe given the same courtesy to speak as owners have. The Board is under no demand to respond and probably wouldn't other than to be civil. Civil disturbances and criminal or suspected criminal attacks on Board Members should be dealt with promptly by the President of the Board with Board approval. Do not allow this harassing conduct by this renter to continue, the board should immediately inform the owner of the property that his renter is violating the safety of a member of the board and it is the Board intention to hire legal council and this owner will be billed for the services.

SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:236

03/05/2010 10:28 AM
Can renters attend our board meetings? Yes, but very few do, unless they have a question or problem (just like the owners). The girlfriend of a renter came to our annual meeting last week – still not quite sure why she was there, but since there have been a few complaints about the renters and their friends parking everywhere and blocking traffic, she did say she’d forward our concerns to her boyfriend and his roommates. Do they call the property manager with questions or complaints? Sometimes, but I suspect most call the owner/landlord, who then contacts the property manager Homeowners can give their proxy to anyone to vote on their behalf in board elections, but it’s interesting that it apparently hasn’t dawned on anyone to give the proxy to the renters so we can make quorum and hold elections. To wit, we need a combination of 16 proxies and homeowners in attendance to hold elections. At the annual meeting I just spoke of, we were short - only three homeowners showed up besides the board (we have 7, but 6 were present and she was running for re-election) and we only received 6 proxies. The newsletter used to go to everyone, but since it contained information that was really aimed at the homeowners (e.g. board meeting minutes), we created another newsletter that would be given to tenants every quarter. We asked for the owner/landlords to provide the tenant’s email (emails in some cases) so it could be sent out or the owner could receive the newsletter and distribute it accordingly. There was virtually no response from the homeowners although we have a lot of renters here (which brings up more issues, as I’m sure you’re already aware of). That said, I agree with Robert and Helen – this is a homeowner’s association, not an apartment complex or vacation timeshare. It’s not the Board or property manager’s job to manage rental property – these homeowners made the decision to rent the place out and it’s up to them to ensure the tenants know the rules because violations will be treated as if the owner lived in the unit. And then some of these owners (many of whom live out of state) have the gall to whine about maintenance fees being too high and the neighborhood looking junky! Maybe if they paid more attention to who they rent to, we wouldn’t have these problems. And since it appears to cost more money to deal with the tenants AND homeowners, perhaps the maintenance fee should reflect that.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5152

03/05/2010 12:24 PM
SheliaH, Let's take a little different look. You are obviously talking a condo. Normally your fees to the owners are pro rata. Some will pay more, some will pay less. These figures were established at birth of the association and reflect any number of criteria what is weighed and a pro rata share is established. The reason for this is because units are valued differently to reflex what percentage of the total each unit would represent. Aside from the space of the units the rest is common property and each unit shares in the maintenance of this property at the pro rata share. When property is rented and the demands on the common property and common assets exceed the pro rata share of each unit because of other than this pro rata share, adjustments should be made. This is seldom done and the whole ends up paying not just the apportioned share. The manager should account for his time spent servicing rental issues, if any renter causes any damage or trouble in the association the owner of that unit is responsible for any outlaw of time or money that this problem inflicts. I don't rent, I live there, if I have a quest I am totally responsible for their conduct and actions and any damages or charges they may perpetrate, no questions asked, it is clearly stated in our documents. This provision makes no special consideration for rental property, even though we have a rental policy, the core is still there..............owners responsibility. Aside from that and after twenty years I am still searching for some explanation of why rentals are permitted when our documents clearly state private businesses are not allowed anywhere on the complex. Why isn't renting property a business, you offer a product, you collect money for that service and you should report it as a business expense. But, to be clear, I am not against renters and renting. I believe it adds to the neighborhood and has value to the association. I just don't believe it should be uncontrolled and upset the apportionment and also place a stigma on the association because too many rental properties restricts the free market value of the units by diminishing the pool of mortgage lenders, such as FHA, fannie mae, and probably others. Whew...INHO

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:530

03/06/2010 5:34 AM
Susan, Perhaps a welcome letter can be drafted and issued to each renter. A simple, welcome to the community type of things. List the things the Association is responsible for and what the Association expects of the residents (quiet hours, parking, trash, etc.). Include the common things that the Association gets called for that is in reality an issue for the Landlord. If the issue boils down to the renters lack of information this can go a long way to minimize the impact to the board and MC. Hope this helps, Tim

SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:236

03/08/2010 10:09 AM
Thanks for your comments, Robert. Actually, we're a townhouse community, so everyone pays the same rate - once upon a time there were different rates for people with one car garages vs. those without vs. thse who lived in one story units, but that changed long before I moved in). I like your idea on having our property manager keep track of the time spent in dealing with rental units and charging people accordingly - maybe the prospect of having to pay more might discourage investor-owners from buying up a bunch of units and renting them out. As you can imagine, we've had trouble getting our CCRs revised because we have a lot of offsite owners who apparently want to make as much money as possible while paying a pittance in costs. It's one reason I'm almost inclined to say 'cry me a river' when they yap about fees being too high - almost because owner-occupants like me have to pay them too! We've also run up on the mortgage pool reduction you mentioned (delinquencies were our downfall and I'm concerned that even if we can get a handle on delinquencies, the rental ratio will still be around to hurt us) I'm not against renters either, but our problem has been homeowners who seem to rent to anyone who can fog a mirror and then leave it to those of us who live here to deal with the mess. To me, one should be able to go down the street and not be able to tell who lives where because everyone's obeying the rules. I expect some drama from the owner-occupants anyway, but it seems for the offsite folks, it's out of sight, out of mind.

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