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MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:432

11/16/2009 9:24 AM
Posted By DavidW5 on 11/16/2009 7:52 AM The point being, we can simply ignore any lawsuit that the developer would file. He cannot successfully sue any one of us as individuals for an action taken by the corporation. Furthermore, the corporation has no assets, so if it is sued and we ignore the suit and lose, there is nothing for the court to award to the developer. We were assured by the attorney who set up the corporation that this is the case. This looks like a bunch of bad advice. I think the first thing to remember about any lawsuit is that it is a crapshoot. I also tend to agree with those who have said anyone can sue anyone for anything. I think it's dangerous to think your are immune or protected. That said, I am not suggesting that people should go around in fear of being sued -- just don't assume that anything you do is protected. Also, don't assume that if the HOA ignores a lawsuit, the homeowners are protected against losses. It may be different in some states, and I've had a difficult time getting a clear read on this, but I think homeowners in a mandatory HOA are generally and ultimately liable for all obligations of the HOA. It's not like a normal commercial or non-profit corporation. I found a couple of cases in Florida that tested this, but the basis for it seems generally applicable based on Deed Restrictions (which predate and take priority over the Corporate entity). I'm not sure most homeowners would really be happy to lose their HOA and common assets, but don't assume that bankruptcy or dissolution of the HOA would not simply transfer any obligations to the Homeowners. (In researching this and other questions, I contacted more than 20 attorneys over several months (many of whom claim some HOA experience) to see what they might say off the cuff (and for free) on several issues. Most were either useless or would not demonstrate any ability before being hired, but I did get some consensus on a few issues.)

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

11/16/2009 10:22 AM
Steve, I think that we have met a mental road block with you on this blog thing. You said that the blog is so widely read by the residents. Well, many people read garbage just to see how garbage is distributed thru mail and other media. That does not mean that they agree with you on what you write and what others write. You do not know what all of the mmebers are thinking about their community but only by the ones who blog. The Board is not responsible for anything on that blog but responsible to your documents only and they told you once what they require of you to fit in with their wants for your site to be considered a legitimate mindset of the community. MICHAEL POSTED THIS- It says it all " Steve, A sarcastic disclaimer is immature and would tend to inflame the situation. Bend over backwards to be cooperative and conciliatory in any way that does not compromise your mission. Appeal to the broad spectrum of homeowners in your neighborhood, including the Board, their friends, and people who are not complaining about them. Put the ball in their court to serve the best interests of the neighborhood or their own comfort, and keep it that way. If they do the same with respect to you, then you may end up working toward a shared goal."

SteveS8
(New York)

Posts:67

11/16/2009 12:14 PM
I have now tweaked it a dozen times. Does anyone feel that the following disclaimer is belittling or demeaning or might sound sarcastic to the HOA: "The --------- On-line Forum is not sanctioned by the --------- Homeowners' Association. This Forum is, instead, supported by those homeowners who are interested in knowing, in a timely fashion, what is happening in their community. Therefore, the opinions expressed herein are solely those of the individuals/homeowners posting. The HOA, --------- On-line Forum, and its administrator are not responsible for its content." I am trying to break down the mental road block and get it done. Steve

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:781

11/16/2009 1:34 PM
Posted By MicheleD on 11/16/2009 8:32 AM Posted By DJ1 on 11/16/2009 3:57 AM Michele and Donna, This wouldn't be an issue is the HOA had done it's job and filled the void that Steve seem so to have. I think it is legitimate to question the HOA motives and while you question Steves, with that little rant Posted:11/15/2009 5:14:12 PM How about a disclaimer, "Please do not confuse this website for the xxx HOA official website, because the HOA has no website." Get into the 21st century and maximize the communication channels HOA. I'm in the 21st century. And to reiterate, I don't give a flying ** about the HOA's "motives." Not a single person here is questioning whether he is justified with his blog or not because we don't care. His motives are crystal clear every time he has to provide "examples" of his blog having won noble and heroic battles over the big bad mean HOA. I don't know why their HOA doesn't have a website and I don't care. All we were doing, and continue to do, is explain how it is in his best interest to provide the disclaimers. It is you who needs to get into the 21st Century if you have no clue how bad not doing so can come back to bite him on the arse. Michele, I was NOT telling you or anyone here to get into the 21st century, I dropped the "'s" from HOA in the last line due to a typo. I was trying to say HOA's should utilize the communication methods available in the 21st century. You obviously do...you post! . I regret if I am causing you to use the "flying **" and "I am in the 21st century" language. Just trying to have a calm discussion.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491

11/16/2009 2:04 PM
No worries. I use that expression all the time. It feels good trippling over the tongue. I usually use it when others use various cliches. It's sort of a fun way of saying, "not something I take too seriously." The thing is, my favorite "I don't give a s*" expression/cliche is usually a mixed one: "I don't give a flying f" combined with "I don't give a rat's a" which comes out "I don't give a flying rat's a." Simply because I love the visual. A rat's bum flapping through the air with bat wings, bumping into stuff as it flitters around. Don't forget, I'm a vet. Our vocabulary is a little more spicy, as a rule. Especially when we're relaxed and having fun. My off-topic point about getting into the 21st Century is this: I've been on the digital Super Highway since the mid-1980s (when it all began, before "www" and "http://" was the standard). That's when phrases like "Information Super Highway" actually seemed cool, instead of creepy, like they do now. I've been advising and consulting with companies and organizations on establishing web presence since way back then. That's when we built the sites from hard code, writing in HTML, and long before CSS was even on the radar. Fun times. But the point is, that not all organizations, either back then or now, are "ready" for a web presence. One of the primary drivers for being "online" is, where are your customers? If your customers are online, then by all means you should be there, too. But if your customers are not online, and have no desire to reach out to you electronically, then it's a waste of time. Now, I still** recommend that most companies and organizations at least establish what I call a "brochure" site, meaning basic About Us and Contact information, JUST in case someone is looking for them. But for many HOAs today, their "customers" just may not be there yet. And this is NOT directed at Steve's HOA, but in general. In our case, for example, we have roughly 20 to 30 people out of 600 residents who are web-active. We tried a full-boat website years ago (yes, I built it and donated my time and, for a time, space on my servers). But it was a failed experiment. We moved our "stuff" to a "freebie" site that basically just provides access to a variety of uploaded documents and gives generic neighborhood information. We still do news flashes on it, meeting notices, election results, etc, but our traffic every month? Avg: 20-25 unique visitors a month. And some of those are us. So, again, not a problem. Didn't arouse me. Have a drink and sit back and envision the fluttering rat's bum. . . . it's really kinda cute. . . .

MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:432

11/16/2009 2:06 PM
My inclination is to point to my disclaimer, although I have no experience with any of this nor any idea about the legal implications. I did mine this way to state clearly that it is for and of the neighborhood and homeowners therein, but is not a vehicle of the HOA organization. Is your site public or private? (Will the public read this disclaimer, or only your neighbors?) I suppose the "not sanctioned" language is fine, since that is what your Board has been using. "instead, ... who are interested ..." could be read to suggest an either/or -- your users are interested in learning what's going on, and the Board (or those who don't use your blog) are not. Why not avoid the possibility that people could read such negatives into it. How about: [Community-name] is a successful, pleasant community of [NNN] single-family homes in the City of [name]. This is not the [HOA Name] web site or blog! This is a privately-owned forum, managed by and for homeowners in [Community-name] to promote interaction and communication among neighbors. or: The [name] On-Line Forum is not sanctioned by the [name] Homeowners Association board. This is a privately-owned forum, managed and supported by homeowners in [Community-name] to promote interaction and communication in their community. The opinions expressed herein are solely those of the individual authors -- the homeowners who post them. The HOA, the [name] On-Line Forum, its supporters, and administrator do not necessarily share these opinions and do not restrict content on that basis. I don't think you can deny responsibility for content that you host, and I think you should take responsibility by removing any profane and offensive posts and to post your own objection to anything derogatory presented as fact without evidence. I would also be interested in comments from others about wording of disclaimer, particularly suggestions to improve my own.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:781

11/16/2009 2:11 PM
As we read more and more I think it would it be fair to say based on Steve's post of the HOA response to his question (11/16/2009 3:35 AM), their skipping the reading of it, and the response blurted out, that the HOA request really isn't the issue. I am all against bashing a board but VALID criticism and concerns should be addressed. Donna, you said "You do not know what all of the mmebers are thinking about their community but only by the ones who blog." The question I would then ask, is does the Board know what all the members are thinking about their community, or only the ones who...? It is their job, not Steve's, to know. Even if they are volunteers.

SteveS8
(New York)

Posts:67

11/16/2009 2:13 PM
Michael, Your comments make a lot of sense. I will tweak once again until it reaches perfection. Steve

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491

11/16/2009 2:19 PM
Posted By DJ1 on 11/16/2009 2:11 PM As we read more and more I think it would it be fair to say based on Steve's post of the HOA response to his question (11/16/2009 3:35 AM), their skipping the reading of it, and the response blurted out, that the HOA request really isn't the issue. I am all against bashing a board but VALID criticism and concerns should be addressed. Donna, you said "You do not know what all of the mmebers are thinking about their community but only by the ones who blog." The question I would then ask, is does the Board know what all the members are thinking about their community, or only the ones who...? It is their job, not Steve's, to know. Even if they are volunteers. They certainly can get a clue if they are re-elected from year-to-year. The point there is that the board is "representative," and they are basically administrators, anyway. So the "thinking" of the community needs to come from the membership to board, if the membership wants change or requires certain things to happen. Anyway, I was just stopping by again to offer an additional line for Steve to consider in his "disclaimer" section: "The information provided on this _______ website is provided on an as-is basis. While we engage in reasonable efforts to ensure all information on our website is accurate and current, such accuracy and currency can not be guaranteed and your reliance thereon is at your own risk. If you discover any information on our pages which you believe to be inaccurate or outdated or for technical inquiries regarding the website or if you have any questions regarding our privacy policy or you would like to review, change, and/or remove your personal information please contact __________."

RichardP13
(California)

Posts:837

11/17/2009 12:40 AM
Steve, I know exactly how you feel. About two months I put up a web site for the community I had moved into 18 months ago. I put the web site up many of the same reason you put your blog up. I got the same grief from the HOA, mainly from the new property management company. I built the site in two days, told the management company what day it was going up and what the purpose was. I also put up a very simple disclaimer, hoping to get some sort of board approval. The main items were: 1. Keep homeowners current on community events (if any) 2. Copies of governing docs 3. Copies of Agendas, Minutes and Annual Budgets 4. BOD and Committees and their members 5. Service Providers for the community 6. Community Resources 7. Discussion Board 8. Blog From that day two months ago, there has been nothing but grief. In the eyes of the BOD, I was the Most Wanted in my community. So, I decided to run for the board, which the elections are being held this Thursday. We have 5 BOD of which 4 have been appointed and not elected. I took extra steps to get a 51% vote from the members to make quorum. I sent mailers and put up an additional web site for myself. Hopefully, it will pay off. I got the feeling that our BOD didn't want anything out in the open. That was confirmed by a meeting I had with one of the BOD. Just like you I wanted a vehicle that homeowners could go to for information and nothing more. If there were issues that needed to be addressed by either a management company or the BOD, communications would have been sent to the correct people. We had no way to communicate with our elected representatives (ha ha ha) When walking my neighborhood while campaigning, I was amazed that almost no one knew who their BOD were. In the two months that the site has been up, I have gotten nothing but praise from the homeowners. I have been able to welcome new homeowners into the community, direct inquiries to the proper source, provide useful information to realtors. All it takes is a couple of minutes each day to maintain. I believe in being completely open to people, especially people who have the same stake in this community as I do. The web site or blog is a great way to head off an issue before it becomes a problem. Steve, I encourage youn to continue what you're doing. I appears that you have the support of the homeowners for which the blog was intended. Frankly, the hell with the BODs if they have their egos so far up in the clouds. Apparently, some BODs on this site think they have the right to act as a god. Shame on them.

MichaelK11
(Texas)

Posts:432

11/17/2009 5:00 AM
Richard & Steve (and anyone else who has one), Please send me a link to your blog or web site. Please email to mikek@ethos.net, if you don't mind. Also, any of you posters or readers in Texas, please send me your email address, if you don't mind staying in touch. I already have this from a few of you, but a reminder would still be helpful.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:781

11/17/2009 6:19 AM
Michele, the problem with your statement "They certainly can get a clue if they are re-elected from year-to-year. The point there is that the board is "representative," and they are basically administrators, anyway. So the "thinking" of the community needs to come from the membership to board, if the membership wants change or requires certain things to happen. " Steve said "I can fully understand why the majority of Board members (the ones appointed by the developer).." so it doesn't really matter what the members say, think or do, it sounds like at this point turnover may not have occurred. On average do you think HOA communication during the development stage is better or worse than post-turnover. I know here, many owners were desperately seeking information during the developer stage and it was sorely lacking. Now that the HOA has been member run for a couple years and a new board was just elected, I saw a survey the new board conducted (asking for feedback - excellent idea imo). ~110 homes. 48 returned survey. preferred method of communication: email (40 provided email addresses), door-to-door hardcopy (20);Town hall meetings (13). -published member directory: 37 in favour, 8 wanted more info. -Website content: All 48 want newsletters, 44 want board contact info/meeting schedules/public minutes, 40 want clubhouse rental calendar. "sheer number of responses indicates that website is high priority item to members." "AREAS NEEDING IMPROVEMENT (figures based on tally of items listed as #1-most needing improved) Communications (17)* Clubhouse Interior (decor/kitchen facilities/etc. (16)* Governance of the Association (9)* Enforcement of Covenants (7) Clubhouse Rentals (6) Common Areas (6) Recognition of Volunteers (6) Architectural Committee (5) Clubhouse Exterior (2) Clubhouse Events & Recreation (2) Coffee Time/Social Activities (0)—(reflects the great job the Social Committee does!)"

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

11/17/2009 6:39 AM
DJ, Thank you for that posted information. It is a pretty on average survey, showing where the Board or Developer need to get better at communicating information to the membership. My Board did surveys annually just to keep in tune with the members but it was after turnover from the Developer. Pre turnover will have numerous problems with physical problems of which the Developer should respond to. It is up to the Board to communicate those items to him. I truely feel that this type of blog is as you say--" My Blog vs The HOA" We have said this a million times--If you don't like the way things are eing run, then get on the Board and change it. Undermining the efforts of the sitting Board is always counterproductive.

SteveS8
(New York)

Posts:67

11/17/2009 7:25 AM
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. We are a relatively new community. The developer is still around and will likely be for another 3 to 5 years. I believe that if all the Board members were homeowners, I probably would never have started a blog because their interests are, generally, my interests. But with the developer holding the majority of the cards, it just seems as if some things are an uphill battle that cannot be won. The blog sort of evens out the playing field a little because the residents who would probably never be told anything about some important issues are told everything (well, at least everything that I can find out). Don't get me wrong... I am apparently not loved by one or two of the Board members who are homeowners, but since they refuse to talk to me, email me, or meet me, there is nothing I can do. I have heard that the attorney for the developer made it clear that I (the blog) am off limits. That might explain everything. I am not interested in running for the board because I am not interested in being on the wrong side of every vote. I believe I can be of much more value to the community as an "outsider". Steve

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491

11/17/2009 7:28 AM
DJ: I'm surprised if there's only one problem with my post. As Donna pointed out, when an HOA is under developer control, it's an entirely different animal, and, since the developer has the leverage during the stage he is in control, it would behoove a person even more to listen to some of his "requests," even if they come through a developer-controlled board. I still stand by my statement that the members need to be more involved, however, and not just one or two. At any rate, for the record, my background is communication. The last 20 years of my career was spent as a senior corporate communication executive for a Fortune 800 company. I can assure you, there isn't a survey that's ever been created whose results don't list "communication" as a primary area of concern (if not the primary area of concern) for ANY selected audience. It's a no brainer. And HOA boards should keep "communication" as a primary element in their priority box. But the fact is that, members of the HOA don't get a free pass either. Most people want others to communicate with them. They don't want to recognize or accept their role or responsibility in the communication process themselves. They want to be passive recipients in the process. But even when a board sends newsletter, post cards, holds open forums, etc etc etc, people will continue to insist communication is poor. There's all sorts of reasons for that, but a lot has to do with "top of mind" -- most HOA communication is not top of mind for the membership. That is, unless there is something that immediately impacts them, such as a violation notice, or a notice of assessment increase, or a vote to support a controversial amendment. For the board to set priorities for the year, or for their terms, it must have input from the membership. And one of the most important things that the membership forgets is the association is THEIRS. THEY, as a group, shape where it goes and what it looks like and what its priorities are. The problem is that they abdicate that responsibility to a board of 3 to 9 people. Granted, the directors are members of the association as well, but for them to speak "for" the association, they must have input from the members. When that input is not forthcoming, then the board is left to shape the direction themselves. If after a sleepy period the membership doesn't like the direction the HOA is heading, then they have a choice: live with it and complain amongst themselves, or vote the directors out and install others who they feel will better reflect their goals. But, again, this requires "communication" -- from the board, for sure, but also from the members TO the board. It's time we stopped laying this whole thing at the board's feet. Now, back to Steve and people who want to have blogs to "communicate" with their community when the board doesn't (or doesn't do it to the standards that these people would like): Go for it. Have at it. Get as "communicative" as you can. But keep in mind, you have some responsibility to the truth, to accuracy, to refrain from your OWN bias, and to consider that a great many in your organization may not prefer the mode of communication YOU are using, either. If ALL you have is a "blog" or website, I can assure you, you are ALSO ignoring a large portion of your community. You are expecting THEM to come to YOU on YOUR preferred platform. You may get some traffic, sure, but if you are not reaching all members, then you are doing the same thing you accuse the board of. Which is why I would -- and do -- encourage people who feel communication is key to run for the board and establish the communication element as your area. That way you have the ability to use the association funds to reach all the residents/members, and not just the ones who happen to be surfing the net and run across your blog. (caveat: talking about after turnover here)

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491

11/17/2009 7:31 AM
Posted By SteveS8 on 11/17/2009 7:25 AM I am not interested in running for the board because I am not interested in being on the wrong side of every vote. I believe I can be of much more value to the community as an "outsider". Steve .... and I would contend, "then you would be wrong." "wrong" side of every vote"?? What does that even mean? If you want to be a voice by and for the membership, then don't do it halfway. Sure, it's more convenient to just push a button to "publish" as opposed to actually drafting a solid, strategic communication plan to reach ALL members (and if you want to communicate with the community, why limit it just to those who happen to be online?) I hope you change your position. It is your association, too. To continue to treat it with an "us against them" mentality only deepens the rift instead of bridging it.

SteveS8
(New York)

Posts:67

11/17/2009 8:12 AM
It is clear that the people who run the Board (the majority assigned by the developer) are not so much interested in communicating with the residents. Board members, as soon as they are elected, are taken into a room and told that they have a "fiduciary" responsibility to not speak to anyone about the business of the Board. Very recently, there was a meeting called by a homeowner about fighting the expansion of a facility across the road from the community. A request was made to hold the meeting at the clubhouse, but since the developer felt that such a meeting would bring attention to the problem of the expansion, the Board indicated that the meeting would have to be held outside the community. Michele, you'll have to take my word for it. This is not in the homeowners' best interests. I stood up at that meeting and asked why everyone (large turnout) had to travel 30 minutes away from home instead of using the clubhouse, and I was told that "the request was turned down". Another resident turned to me and whispered, "the attorney for the developer is sitting three seats away" as if I were a kindergarten student and the principal was watching me. To use your phrase from many posts ago "PULEEZE!" As a Board member, my vote would have meant nothing, and I would not be able to speak about the vote or results to anyone. As an outsider I can question issues like this. I fully understand that there are two sides to every story, and only I am here from my community. It truly is a great place to live, and I highly recommend it to all my friends. But it isn't perfect and some things need adjusting, but they will not get adjusted unless they are in the developer's best interest. That does not always coincide with the homeowner's best interests, and that side happens to be my only concern. Steve

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:781

11/17/2009 8:17 AM
MicheleD, Should there be more than one thing wrong with your post? "If ALL you have is a "blog" or website, I can assure you, you are ALSO ignoring a large portion of your community. You are expecting THEM to come to YOU on YOUR preferred platform. You may get some traffic, sure, but if you are not reaching all members, then you are doing the same thing you accuse the board of. " Steve isn't the Board, so while he may not reach everyone, it also isn't his job to do so. Turn this around. If the BOD is not using a website, then they are ignoring a portion of the community and expecting the members to come to THEM on their preferred platform. If it is bad for Steve to do, then it certainly is far worse for the Board who has the onus to communicate to members, to do so. There are members from all interest levels... none, some, alot. A Board should provide the info for anyone who wants it. Ideally, this need should be filled by the Board, not a home-owner. So when a homeowner who takes an interest in their HOA, takes on the task, I don't have the same high expectation standard for solving the world's woes.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491

11/17/2009 8:32 AM
No, Steve, with all due respect you are restating common cop out excuses. Your "vote" would be recorded as what it is, a dissenting vote. Which oftentimes is just as important. And the residents would feel they had a legitimate representative on the board. And what you have been told that new board members are told doesn't even make sense, and is clearly third hand. It may have been the person's interpretation of what they were told but it rings hollow. It's simply easier to be the one from the "outside" shooting in, from the convenience of your armchair. It's much harder to actually step up to the plate. For every "reason" you can think of to stay an "outsider" (which, again, by your very nomenclature you establish your own mindset over the whole thing), than to work to be involved in the process. oh well. Everyone has their reasons. -------------- DJ: But of course! My posts generally have all sorts of problems! Especially when I just begin typing. I often wonder myself where I will end up and what I will say. . . But to your point, about Steve not being on the board, it makes no difference is Steve is on the board or not. Though to clarify, the "you" in that post is the generic "you" of anyone who sets up an "unofficial" blog for a community for the similar reasons. It makes no difference whatsoever if this person is on the board. If this person (insert name of person who is doing it here) has decided to fill in the communication link for his or her community, and all that person does is, from the comfort of her or his own living room, simply set up a web presence, then he/she is not really filling that communication need for the community is he/she? All that person is doing is satisfying their own ego and need to be perceived as some sort of David against the Goliath. "See? I'm telling you all the things the board won't." Of course, it's not important enough to him/her to actually ensure that all the residents GET that information. The effort ends at the press of the "SUBMIT" button. Yes, it takes a bit more money to actually print things out and distribute them or mail them to the membership. As I said, I have no problem with people setting up such blogs. Just don't try to say that you are filling a gap when you are only reaching a fraction of the people who may need the information. You are still forcing people to actively seek your information out, as opposed to pushing the information to them. Again, don't get me wrong, I happen to think that residents have a certain responsibility to seeking information out to begin with. But, still, websites are generally only communication bandaids. But boy they sure make the creator feel important! Not important enough to try to develop a formal official communication plan for the organization by working to get on the board, but still. . .

RichardP13
(California)

Posts:837

11/17/2009 11:49 AM
This is directed at Michele from KY It is completely irresponsible to say that taking an inititive to create a blog or web site for their community is done to make the creator feel important. I been on this discussion board for just a short period of time, but have found that a few of you defend the actions of a number of misguided board members who really are in it for the power they preceive the office gives them. As I mentioned before, I too built a web site when no one else would. Does it make me feel important. No, but I do feel a sense of pride if I have helped just one person navigate through our community just a little easier. Is a web site the only answer, NO, but look at how many people take the time to cast a ballot at election time and that is sent out US Mail in a BIG envelope, hard to miss. I took the position that if I wanted to see changes in how our BOD/PM communicates to its shareholders, then I better run for a seat. But, the problem is, what if 51% of the shareholders don't vote. No change on the board. How is change effected at local government elections. 50% plus 1 vote and you have a winner. No quorum required. And if you happen to be a pain in the side of the current BOD/PM, it would be in their best interest not to get a full quorum and thus no changed is affected. Don't think I'll get appointed either. What I have come to realize from this discussion board is there are a lot of unqualified and untrained BODs out there, and the regulars here defend their actions. I agree wholeheartly with Steve, I live in a great community, but feel that things, especially communication, can be improved. Any communication we had in the past was always filtered through the PM, so you really weren't sure if it got to the BOD. The BOD puts outs a newsletter, but never put in it who the board is or how they can be contacted. If we have a community event, which has to be approved by the board, maybe one board member shows up. Yes, I realize that BODs are volunteers, but by no means should they put someone down because it hurt their feelings. If what I am doing is strictly providing information to our homeowners without any political agenda, I could care less what my BOD/P thinks.

JohnO6
(Georgia)

Posts:415

11/17/2009 12:01 PM
Richard - I think you've made some pretty rash generalizations here. There are "regulars" who post often and there are regulars (like me) who are more lurkers than posters . . posting when they feel like it, are more interested in the topic at hand, or feel they can contribute incrementally to what's already been done and/or said. Having observed the happenings here for some time, I think you have clearly painted the "regulars" with way too broad a brush. Frankly they quabble with each other about as much as with the occasional visitor and I have yet to find a "common bias" among them except in the areas of logic, order, legality, and common sense.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:781

11/17/2009 12:27 PM
I actually think the BOD members here are the kind of people you want on a board. [disclaimer: I'm not one! ]. While we all have our opinions one way or another, most seem open to at least discuss, and consider opposing opinions, and sometimes change to the opposing view. The scary board members are usually the ones that often get featured in the news stories posted on the main HOA talk page! Gee, I hope none of you have had your issue posted there!

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491

11/17/2009 12:28 PM
Richard, It's not "irresponsible" of me to say that, it's simply my opinion. Do I think it is the only reason why a person does that? No, but it's a much bigger ingredient in the recipe than one might care to admit. You are free to characterize it however you want, though, if it hurt your feelings. But you completely missed my point. You have put up only one leg of a table. I completely agree that you and Steve have every right and motivation to feel free to do what you are doing, and, in case it was overlooked, I encourage it. But don't delude yourselves into thinking you are "informing the community," because you are not. You are only informing pieces and parts of the community. And the pride you take is because it makes you feel better to do that than to just sit home and b**** to your family or one or two neighbors.j Now, granted there are some developments that are much more Internet active than others. But even so, most do not have its membership combing the internet seeking association-related websites to tell them what's going on in their own community. But I do love the way you "gave up" running for the board before you even actually started. If you and others like you feel as strongly as you do about what you are doing, that your communication vehicle is important to the community (and, again, I'm not saying it isn't, simply that it's an incomplete effort), then you can use it as a spring board or jumping off point to grow involvement. It's a start. Everything has to have a starting point. But don't fall into the trap of thinking it is the end to its own means. If improving the community is what you want, and improving communication is a piece of that, then it's going to take more than just being a bleep on the Internet. "Build it and they will come" really is just a cliche. "Build it and SOME of them will come," is really more like it. That may be okay for you. As you said, if even only one person is better informed. . . .but. . .then, that is just only one other person after all. It's like this site. I have no idea how many registered users there are. Probably a lot since a lot of people have come and gone over the years. But I will tell you this, out of the hundreds of HOAs in my own community, I have yet to have met another board member in any of the ones I do know who come here. Why does that matter? Because we tend to think when we are typing something up on here, and pushing the button to send it "out" to the Internet universe, that we have a much larger audience than we really do. I'm just saying, think about that. There should be more legs to your communication table. Take that energy and drive and develop a real, long-term communication plan that incorporates not just you and a handful of others who happen by your site, but broadens to include the homeowners who haven't a clue what's going on. . . and that can sometimes even mean board members too! You may just get your 51%, if you broaden your horizons outside of the digital world.

RichardP13
(California)

Posts:837

11/17/2009 1:07 PM
Michele I don't have feelings that can be hurt. Coomunications is a two-way street. We have homeowners looking foer information, but BODs unwilling to provide in return. You're right, a web site is only one leg of a table. But, for us, its 110% better than what we had. Next step is get on the board. No, Michele, I didn't quit the race. The election is in two days. I mailed flyers, I put up another web site and I walked the neighborhood trying to make sure that they cast their ballot. There is much more responsibility to being a BOD than sitting on a board. It needs to provide leadership. Be consistant and more homeowners will join the party.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491

11/17/2009 1:14 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 11/17/2009 1:07 PM Michele I don't have feelings that can be hurt. Coomunications is a two-way street. We have homeowners looking foer information, but BODs unwilling to provide in return. You're right, a web site is only one leg of a table. But, for us, its 110% better than what we had. Next step is get on the board. No, Michele, I didn't quit the race. The election is in two days. I mailed flyers, I put up another web site and I walked the neighborhood trying to make sure that they cast their ballot. There is much more responsibility to being a BOD than sitting on a board. It needs to provide leadership. Be consistant and more homeowners will join the party. Awesome! Good job, hope you can win your seat. Boards need people who aren't afraid to break a few eggs.

SteveS8
(New York)

Posts:67

11/17/2009 7:17 PM
The torture is over. This thread that I began and has grown geometrically may or may not die now, but I have made my decision, made some changes to the blog, and I have written a letter to the HOA Board of Directors explaining my decision. I took much of what I read here, tossed it around in my head, consulted some folks in my community and came up with something I can live with. For those of you who were not born yet when I started this thread, I spoke about having started a blog in my community and was not appreciated by the Board which was comprised of 4 developer and 3 homeowner folks. Apparently I was the topic of conversation at their meetings for months. It finally came to a head with a letter to me demanding three things: 1) Put a disclaimer on the site that the board is not sanctioned by the HOA and the postings are solely the responsibility of the posters. 2) Remove the photo of the clubhouse (which I photographed myself) from the first page of the blog. 3) Refrain from posting erroneous, misleading and inaccurate items pertaining to the community. My response is below: Yes, I am the originator and administrator of the --------- On-line Forum. I have read the directive of the --------- HOA Board of Directors, and I am herein responding to the three directives as follows: 1) I have placed a disclaimer on the Forum acknowledging that it is not sanctioned by the --------- HOA and that the opinions expressed on said Forum are solely those of the individuals posting. I have done this despite the fact that I do not believe that any reasonable person reading the Forum would come to the conclusion that the HOA was involved in any way. 2) I have changed the photo appearing at the top of the Forum to reflect a winter scene at the community. Since it was taken of buildings that likely have not been trademarked, from my own personal property, and I have no intention of selling the images, I will assume that will put to rest any anxiety you may have about that issue. 3) I have never received any indication, in writing or orally, from any member of the --------- HOA Board of Directors that anything I or anyone else has ever posted on the --------- On-line Forum was erroneous, misleading or inaccurate. Should anything posted from this day forward be, in the opinion of the HOA Board of Directors, erroneous, misleading or inaccurate, please either notify me in writing, via email/post, or place a message on the Forum stating so, along with your reasons behind such an opinion. I will be happy to look into the issue and correct anything that needs correction. I trust all of the above meets with the HOA Board of Directors' approval. The disclaimer I placed on the homepage of the blog reads as follows: The --------- On-line Forum is supported by homeowners who are interested in knowing, in a timely fashion, what is happening in our community. The Forum is not sanctioned by the --------- HOA. Therefore, the opinions expressed herein are solely those of the individuals posting. The --------- On-line Forum, its administrator, and the HOA are not responsible for its content. That's my story. I will continue to check back to see how it wears on you all. Thanks for all your help. Steve

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:781

11/18/2009 5:14 AM
Are you taking bets on how long it is before the next request come in? Good luck, and great job trying for making the effort to keep a least 'a part' of the community informed. Not everyone chooses to do things in the same way (ie. running/getting on a BOD). The broader the focus of the website, the more people you will attract, if you offer things of interest in your community, be it HOA specific, or just businesses members recommend to their friends....like who is a good lawyer! Just kidding about the lawyer....there are no good ones!....ok, ok, I was kidding about that too!

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