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JackB8
(Virginia)
Posts:105
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| 09/11/2009 12:31 PM |
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| Js3. I was surprised and pleased to see my post was still getting activity from folks. Your post and the two adjacent to it tell me that my campaign to restrict HOA money to HOA causes is not a waste of time. Many in our community feel that taking on such projects as state/ county maintained street signs and making donations is OK as long as the amount of HOA money spent is kept in the low dollar numbers. I am stressing to them that the law is the law is the law, and in this case the law does not make exceptions for low dollar expenditures. |
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SusanS5
(Florida)
Posts:16
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| 09/12/2009 6:32 AM |
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| What is being done to maintain them? Other than pressure washing, I don't know what else one could do if they are the same metal ones that our state and local government uses. |
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JackB8
(Virginia)
Posts:105
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| 09/12/2009 1:06 PM |
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Susans5. Here's the deal. We live in an average 400,000 dollar home community. The state signs are on metal poles. The county signs are on pressure treated earth tone wooden 4 by 4's with green sign name panels. The developer 15 years ago put white posts with decorative tops at the community entrance and on streets located near the entrance. When you enter the community you see these signs because they are white (not earth tone) and the white color also highlights all the staples and bits of remnants of paper left over from when yard sale/for sale signs were torn off for 14 years after the sales. You don't notice this on the county and state signs further into the community because they are earth tone and do not therefore catch the eye. . We have a group of people in our community who think 400,000 dollar homes deserve better than the state and county standard. They wanted to spend $60,000 last year and years prior to put up all new signs which the state and county will not maintain because we replaced the state and county signs. As far as I'm concerned, if it is such a big deal with these residents, they should be willing to personally get permission from the state and county to replace the signs with their own money and sign a document promising the state and county they will in future be personally responsible for the future maintainance of the signs. We, all the residents, will continue to pay state and county taxes so that when these residents default, the state and county can tear out their signs and put the state and county standard signs back in. I fought this issue last year and this year they decided, since the $60,000 signs are a no-go, that we should ask volunteers to paint all the posts white and pay for the paint, primer, sandpaper, and cold/hot drinks? for the volunteers out of HOA funds. Right now I am trying to make it clear that no funds - not even a dollar- can be used for this purpose. If this idea stands, next we will be putting solar street lights on top of the posts and putting the street names in gold with names of the people who live on the street on little signs below the street name. I am one of only three "vocal" people in the community - the troublemaker if you will. Most of our 600 residents will say nothing until it is too late and then they will just shrug their shoulders. I can live with being labeled a troublemaker.
The other issue is that we have a group of residents, about 15%, who have children/young folks who are involved with the ___________
___________ team. To me that means that 85% of our residents are not involved. They have been pushing the board for years to providve monetary support to their organization, partly, they say in justification, because having the _____________ ___________ team with our community name substantially increases the value of our homes. I'm not sure how. The last request was for $20,000. Such donations are against the law and our declaration and I am steadfastly opposed to using our HOA funds.
I appreciate your reply. |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:4491
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| 09/12/2009 1:39 PM |
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To the issue that is sticking in your craw re: the signs I say, Get Over It.
$400,000 homes and you want the crappy standard street signs?
Well, in our development, and almost every new development that is ever built anymore, the developer erects custom street signs of a design that reflects our meager $250,000-$300,000 homes.
They are black with white letter and hand from a decorative pole.
It costs us $168 per sign to replace.
In 10 years time we've maybe had to repaint a handful of poles.
We could have stayed or reverted to county/state procured and maintained signs, but, guess what? The majority of the community believes these signs far better reflect the appearance and tone of the neighborhood than the run-of-the-mill street signs.
In addition, I don't believe for one minute that it's "illegal" for your board (or any developer in your state) to place and maintain decorative signs. It's your interpretation, but it if truly were "illegal" then it wouldn't even be something that developers do, and they do do it.
Now, regarding the second issue. I don't believe it's against the law, but I do agree that it's likely that your governing documents do not allow for this particular sort of "support." There may be some sort of "discretion" clause, but I would be opposed to the donation as well.
The thing is, if you cannot garner enough of the membership to agree with you, then you have no recourse.
If you can garner enough, then you will have the votes to address a recall, if you all feel that strongly about it.
I, personally, would go door to door and get proxies that would allow me to vote against such an action by the board.
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:4491
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| 09/12/2009 1:40 PM |
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Correction:
hey are black with white lettering and hang from a decorative pole.
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:3622
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| 09/12/2009 2:02 PM |
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I knew what you meant Michele, I speak "Briar" my momma was from Hazard County.  |
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Your board meeting is not held in the Situation Room of the White House. It's not life or death. Let people in, keep it positive, then go home and get a good night's sleep. If you hold off drinking until after the meeting, instead of before or during, you're probably doing OK. JosephW |
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JackB8
(Virginia)
Posts:105
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| 09/12/2009 3:06 PM |
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MicheleD. Reading back over all of your posts makes me wonder about a few things. You seem to be a well informed and highly opinionated person - one who stands by your convictions, and yet you tell me "To the issue that is sticking in your craw re: the signs I say, Get Over It." You do not impress me as the type "Show me I'm from Missouri" who would be receptive to someone who told you to get over an issue you felt strongly about. Our Declaration says it is illegal. It says " The Board of Directors has the authority to assume responsibility for the upkeep of the street, traffic, and directional signage and accessories, including the poles (hereinafter "Street Signs") on the public roads that either the Virginia Department of Transportation or any other governmental authority which is responsible for the upkeep of the signs has not maintained the signs and to the extent that said government authority has extended permission to the association." The county is maintaining the signs. The Virginia Property Owners Association Act says: "Except as expressly authorized in this chapter, in the declaration, or otherwise provided by law, no association may make an assessment or impose a charge against a lot or a lot owner unless the charge is a fee for services provided or related to use of the common area". Not an interpretation Michelle - fact. The signs are not our "common area". The majority of homeowners in our community are not interested in spending 195 (signs) times $168= approximately $40,000 to impress upon people that we do not live in a "Meager (your word) community. As far as your opposition to donations similar to the one I am concerned about, I think if the issue would stick in your craw you need to get over it.
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:5164
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| 09/12/2009 3:29 PM |
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Jack,
You posted on this sight and asked for opinion.
Michele gave you her opinion.
If you don't like her opinion pick one you do like.
She has earned her right and is well respected.
You do not have to agree with her, or me, or anyone else. It is not required and it is out of line to take her to task. I say again this is her considered opinion, take it or leave it, but don't pick a fight over it.
You might also read what she says closely before casting stones. |
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JackB8
(Virginia)
Posts:105
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| 09/12/2009 3:55 PM |
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Robert. The following portion of Michele's post """""To the issue that is sticking in your craw re: the signs I say, Get Over It"""""" goes beyond advice.
Advice is welcome and appreciated. Sarcasm is not helpful to me at all. |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:4491
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| 09/12/2009 6:04 PM |
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It's completely valid advice.
You are obsessing over something that is completely subjective.
Obviously the people involved do not believe for a minute that it's "illegal" for them to put up decorative street signs, and, quite frankly, you've not convinced me that it's "illegal" either.
You are getting majorly hung up on an issue that, according to your own posts, is already resolved.
You said somewhere earlier on that the board decided not to do the decorative signs and just paint the poles instead.
Now you don't like the color of the poles.
I'm sorry if you don't like my "advice," but it's at the stage now where everyone has already given you a variety of differing opinions.
It's time for you to either put your energies into major confrontation or "Get Over It."
In other words, take it to court if you are that convinced it's "illegal."
I'm not buying it. And unless you're ready for that step, then it's time to move on.
PS: once the association "purchases" the signs, guess what? They are common assets, or "common property," and can use association funds to maintain them.
But, hey, you take that up with the next level of authority, m'kay?
That's my opinion.
And you are absolutely correct. If the issue about the donations would stick in my craw, I would just have to get over it, wouldn't I? I can promise you my own husband would be the first to point that out to me, too.
On the other hand, if I did feel "that strongly" about it, I would do a little "grass roots" activism and actually garner the "majority" of the association to stand with me and challenge the board.
In your case, you "claim" that the "majority" does not want to pay to for the street signs is at best speculation. Because if you had their support in hard-and-fast proxies, well, the issue would already be settled, now, wouldn't it.
And for the record, "meager" was included with a touch of sarcasm. We don't consider our homes "meager," but I can assure you that there isn't a subdivision around these days that doesn't have custom street signs.
It's the same thing with the signature entrances. Guess what? Those are just "decoration" too and are they really needed to present an "upscale" image? Maybe. Maybe not. But not having it, when so many other subdivisions do, well, that does sort of stand out, doesn't it?
Same with custom street signs. It's an "amenity" that people may not ask for, but once they are their convey a message.
So if your board is not handling the funds you want, and you are not prepared to either take them on or take it to the next level, then, for your own health, get over it. |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:4491
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| 09/12/2009 6:06 PM |
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Correction: but once they are there they convey a message.
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JackB8
(Virginia)
Posts:105
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| 09/12/2009 7:13 PM |
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Michelle.I am saying this seriously - absolutely without sarcasm. I appreciated your last post. It contained good, sound, common sense advice.
Seriously, thanks.
Jack |
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MaryA1
Posts:0
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| 09/13/2009 7:46 AM |
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Michelle,
You said: "but once they are there they convey a message." (they meaning the classy street signs). IMO, they only convey a message to the "hoity-toity" types who like to flaunt their wealth and think they are better than everyone else. Believe me I know the type as we have a good number who live in my area; an area full of multi-million dollar homes. In fact our zip code contains more millionaires than any other in the whole state (even more than Scottsdale, AZ!). Our street signs are the same ones used throughout the city (even in the public housing communities!) -- all made by our city's sign shop; hardly what you would call fancy and certainly haven't done a thing to bring down our property values.
Jack, as long as the majority of the members of your assn don't care about this issue, is it really worth all your lost sleep? Since the board has shelved the idea of spending over $60,000 for new signs in favor of just painting the poles, it appears you've won most of your case. It appears as though the board is too concerned with trying to make a few people happy instead of doing what's good for the assn as a whole. But, if you are the only member who sees this, there's not much you can do about it and you have to decide if it's really worth all the aggrevation. Sometimes you just have to sit back and let the members get what they deserve. An army of one never won a war!!! |
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JackB8
(Virginia)
Posts:105
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| 09/13/2009 9:03 AM |
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| MaryA1. Your post exactly sums up the way I see this issue. You are absolutely right. Several of my friends and my wife have told me, and now you are telling me that it is not worth all this worry and effort on my part. Given the number of people who are going through foreclosure in our "affluent community" - not my words- and the number of people who are not able to pay their association fees, stopping large and unnecessary expenditures is vital. I have succeeded in doing that. Perhaps it is time to let it go. I will still be able to say, when all this gets out of hand, " I tried". Thanks for your post. |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:4491
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| 09/13/2009 1:34 PM |
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Mary, that's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.
But just as with signature entrances, which have no real function whatsoever, the custom street signs do indicate an upscale community.
You call it "hoity-toity," I call it "elegant."
Tomaytoe, tomahtoe.
The point is, there is not a new development created in my community in the last 10 years that has not opted for custom street signs.
Many of the older communities that are now forming neighborhood associations are installing custom street signs, as well.
They come in all shapes, sizes, colors, finishes and materials and apparently they are looked at favorably by many people.
Granted, as I pointed out, if the custom signs were never there, people probably wouldn't even notice or even think to notice.
But, you'd be hard pressed to get people who have them to revert back to the state/county generic street signs.
Of course, I say that and I just remembered that on my over here this afternoon from my daughter's house, I went through a third-class city. I've gone through that area daily ever since I've lived here. You kind of have to traverse it to get to most anywhere else.
My husband pointed out that all the street signs there have been replaced. They not the same type of custom signs like in our neighborhood, but they are not the traditional green rectangles with white lettering either. They are blue, of all things, with white lettering and are of an odd shape, sort of rectangle with a hump in the middle!
Seems that, at least through this recession, someone in the custom street sign business is doing a heck of a job marketing them!
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MaryA1
Posts:0
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| 09/13/2009 4:15 PM |
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Michele,
Well, when in Rome, do as the Romans. Apparently where you live custom street signs are a sign of affluency. Here, in the upscale neighborhood where I live they haven't caught on. What I meant by "hoity-toity" is the attitude of some people who live in these upscale communities. Because the area is regarded as "upscale" some people walk around with their noses in the air thinking they are the "be all, end all", if you know what I mean. Give some people a little bit of money and they think they own the world. That's the impression I have of some of the people in Jack's community. As an example, a friend pulled into a parking space at a local mall. An elderly woman yelled at him that it was her space. He said, "Well I was there first" and she responded with, "But I'm driving a Lexus!". |
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JackB8
(Virginia)
Posts:105
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| 09/13/2009 5:23 PM |
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| Michelle and Mary. When I moved into this community in late 1995 I owned a 1987 (rusted) plymouth Voyager minivan. I also owned a new 1995 Chrysler Town and Country van. In 1999 I bought a 2000 Chrysler 300m. When I drove the 87 around my community no one waved except people who knew me. Everyone waved when I drove either of the Chryslers. My wife and I used to amuse ourselves by constantly swapping cars and driving around the community. I think the people who didn't wave are the ones who want to give my money away. |
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