JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/07/2009 1:11 PM |
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Our management firms employee took the money out of our HOA account and others to the tune of around $800.000 dollars;
Now our board in it's wisdom has agreed to asses each homeowner a fee to pay our bills; the best part is that they want to give this money to the firm that stole our money.
Management firm says he will give it back someday.
I'll believe that when I see pigs fly.
What do you folks think of this? |
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RobertG
(Arizona)
Posts:505
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| 07/07/2009 1:36 PM |
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| Was there a criminal complaint made against the employee? If not, why not? A bad employee does not make a bad employer (usually). What procedures are in place to prevent this from happening again? |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:5202
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| 07/07/2009 3:15 PM |
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Come on, John.
Your management company should have insurance that covers employee theft. Your board should also file a claim.
Something is missing from your story.
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1665
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| 07/07/2009 5:44 PM |
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| A criminal complaint should be made against the firm and the employee. Further, the management company should have bonded the employee. Now of course this will mean that the employee will be unemployed. |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 6:00 AM |
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Nothing missing; believe it or not what I say is the way it is.
I agree the employee should have been be bonded;
The insurance co should have covered the loss;
This manager is a con artist of the first class; he could talk you out of your underware; he's that good.
The part that realy bugs me is that the directors agreed to give him more money.
He has these folks in his pocket; anyone disagree and he brings out his attorney and threatens to sue; he uses the homeowners money to pay the attorney so he has a bottomless pit of money; it's like sueing yourself. i've been down that road, last time I just quit to save myself lots of money, One poor sole in Tampa lost his home and is $100,000 in debt trying to fight a simaler management firm.
I been in this home most of my life. I've read stories in the papers about things like mine and some guy will go nuts and just start blasting, not me, I won't do that, but sooner or later someone that lives here will brake. and as the story goes (WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND)
The latest I've herd is he has about 20 condo associations on his tail for screwing them. true or not I don't know.
sometime truth is stranger than fiction |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 6:09 AM |
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I have to add:
I once filed a complaint against him to the better business BBB.
didn't take long before I got a letter from an atorney saying I made slanderious remarks about his client.
and I should cease and detest any future complaints. |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 6:11 AM |
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| for obvious reasons I will not mention any name. |
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:2480
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| 07/08/2009 7:05 AM |
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| You can't slander a person with the truth (not yet, in the US, anyway. It's coming, however). |
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RobertG
(Arizona)
Posts:505
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| 07/08/2009 7:15 AM |
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| John, I don't see how you jumped to the conclusion that because an employee of a company took funds the manager is a con artist. I was standing in an office when an employee was taken away in handcuffs and every person in the office was shell shocked. He was the accounts payable person and had been funding his own adventures. |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 7:41 AM |
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RobertG
when a management firm gets the HOA directors to have an assesment for unexpected expenses, then no one will tell you what there for; figure it out for yourself.
I even gave them a self addressed envelope to put the explanation in; never got a reply. does that sound like a management firm you would like to deal with?
there are honest people and there are crooks; The world is full of each. |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 7:47 AM |
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BrianB
there are an army of lawyers that will take you to court for most any reason. win or lose they get paid; you lose no matter if you win. (you always pay).
television is full of them advertizing. |
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RobertG
(Arizona)
Posts:505
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| 07/08/2009 8:00 AM |
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Posted By JohnS25 on 07/08/2009 7:41 AM
RobertG
when a management firm gets the HOA directors to have an assesment for unexpected expenses, then no one will tell you what there for; figure it out for yourself.
I even gave them a self addressed envelope to put the explanation in; never got a reply. does that sound like a management firm you would like to deal with?
there are honest people and there are crooks; The world is full of each.
The rest of the story now comes out. You never explained any of this in your original post and thus we don't seem to have all the facts from you perspective. Again, what you implied was that an employee stole money. Now it sounds like they used money in a way you are not happy with. Big difference. Since you are not a board member you may not be entitled to a reply directly from the management company, they don't report to you. If it were me, I would be working with the board members to see what the situation really is. |
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JohnO6
(Georgia)
Posts:415
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| 07/08/2009 8:07 AM |
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John -
As a follow-up to Robert G's last post, are there one or two incidents you're referring to?
In your first post, you said a management company took $800k of HOA money. Did an individual steal/embezzle it?
And are you saying that the Board of Directors wants to invoke a special assessment to replace this money?
In later posts, you refer to the management company and/or the Board of Directors spending money from a special assessment that you don't know what it was spent on. Is this the same incident or a separate one?
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 9:40 AM |
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John06
sorry for the confusion'
heres a little more detail
The management firm had 20 accounts our account was one of them; total money embezzled, now this is according to the ST Petersburg Times; ( if you give me your e-mail I'll be glad to E-Mail the article to you) $800,000. yes thats eight hundred thousand.
The loss to our HOA was $8000+ dollars; we are a small comunity, no pool no nothing just mow a small strip of grass (about 1/2 acre0 thats it)
again; I will e-mail the letter I received about the special assesment if you have doughts. I keep all records and can prove everything I write; I'm sorry if sometimes I'm not so clear.
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:967
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| 07/08/2009 9:43 AM |
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In addition to JO's Qs:
1. How much money is YOUR HOA missing due to the PM's actions?
2. What actions has YOUR BOD taken as far as recovering it? |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 10:10 AM |
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robertG
you say try working with the board members.
We had a meeting; believe this if you like---a board member got up in the meeting and called me a meddling S.O.B. |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 10:14 AM |
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JohnK3
money missing= a little over $8000
what have the BOD done=had a $35.00 assement payable to the management firm ----to start, (there will be more I'm sure) |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 10:16 AM |
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| As to the recovery of the money; BOD has done nothing |
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TracieS
(Colorado)
Posts:460
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| 07/08/2009 10:17 AM |
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Are we on candid camera?
Your BOD is seriously sending more money to a management firm that "lost" over $8000 of your HOA money? And they want the owners to pay an additional amount over and above annual assessments to replace that lost money? Why isn't the management company being held responsible here?
Are criminal charges pending?
Does your HOA insurance cover theft by employees of a contractor?
Are you really the only person appalled by this in your association?
If we're not on candid camera, I'd say either something's missing, we're not getting the full story, or this association is going to be featured on "How not to run an association".
And I thought my association had problems... |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 11:31 AM |
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TracieS
no were not on candid camera.
to answer your questions
#1 no I'm not the only one thats appaled by this association' last week a lady came by with a patation to get rid of the whole bunch; of course I signed.
#2 criminal charges? noing this bunch the answer is most likley no.
#3 insurance; The HOA paid for some kind of insurance that the management firm sold them.
#4 why isn't the management company held responsible? That's what I'd like to know.
consider yourself lucky; I will never never never buy a home in an HOA again. |
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RobertG
(Arizona)
Posts:505
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| 07/08/2009 11:32 AM |
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Posted By JohnS25 on 07/08/2009 9:40 AM
John06
sorry for the confusion'
heres a little more detail
The management firm had 20 accounts our account was one of them; total money embezzled, now this is according to the ST Petersburg Times; ( if you give me your e-mail I'll be glad to E-Mail the article to you) $800,000. yes thats eight hundred thousand.
The loss to our HOA was $8000+ dollars; we are a small comunity, no pool no nothing just mow a small strip of grass (about 1/2 acre0 thats it)
again; I will e-mail the letter I received about the special assesment if you have doughts. I keep all records and can prove everything I write; I'm sorry if sometimes I'm not so clear.
How about posting the relevant info here? Just mark out names/address info. |
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:967
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| 07/08/2009 11:40 AM |
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$8K missing.
PM sez he'll pay it back someday.
BOD takes no action.
I'd say you need, for starters:
1. New PM.
2. New BOD.
3. Membership uprising.
4. Legal counsel as to:
A) Recovery of funds.
B) Involvement of Gov't agencies regarding criminal activities.
Though with the levels of misfeasance and/or malfeasance demonstrated by PM and BOD, seems this might be beyond salvage.
But good luck. |
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JohnO6
(Georgia)
Posts:415
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| 07/08/2009 11:56 AM |
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John -
I mean absolutely no disrespect in this reply. After reviewing this thread and the one other thread that you started regarding a New Florida law, I'm starting to "get a sense" about how you perceive your surroundings, your HOA, and how you arrive a conclusions - perhaps without a thorough understanding of either the facts of the case or of the complete history of events.
As I said, I mean no disrespect, and I quite honestly don't like drawing my own conclusions based on very limited information, but in this case I just can't seem to help myself .. .. .. ..
From one of your posts in the other thread, you said,
"I bought my property when it was the only home; everyone built around me then formed a HOA. made all kinds of rules; started putting liens on homes; when these folks start paying my taxes; paying insurance and maintaing my home; they can tell me to water my grass."
You're making this sound like you bought a home whose deed was not legally encumbered by any declarations pertaining to an HOA. Then it sounds like you believe that an HOA (which I don't think you like) sort of "formed around you" and suddenly you were absorbed into it? If your property was not originally subject to an HOA, no one could force you into one without your permission and consent. Assuming you are now part of an HOA, either your property was originally part of this HOA when you bought it or you consented to subject your property to the HOA at some later time. There's no other possibility that I am aware of.
If you are, in fact, part of this HOA, the very first thing you need to do is completely read and understand the governing documents of the association. This will typically be both a "Declaration of Protective Covenants" as well as a set of "By-laws" of the Association. Although chock full of legalese and potentially confusing, these documents WILL describe both (a) the obligations and restrictions that your property is subject to in the HOA, and (b) the rules by which the HOA must run.
Included in this will be your rights as a member of the HOA to inspect documents, budgets, and other records of the HOA. You should be able to see the financial records of the HOA and what money was spent for what purpose. You may or may not be able to obtain a copy of the contract between the HOA and management company. However this contract should describe the responsibilities of the mgmt company and likely will contain language regarding their obligations to carry out the fiduciary respsonsibility of the Board of Directors.
It sounds to me like you have some work to do to educate yourself rather than merely drawing conclusions about the intent of the various parties involved.
Once you're familiar with the facts, rules, covenants, etc, the members of this forum can be of much more assistance to you and can offer much more informed advice.
Happy Reading! |
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SteveM9
(Massachusetts)
Posts:1529
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| 07/08/2009 12:08 PM |
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| Sounds like you dont have the whole story. You should dig for more info. |
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JohnS25
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 07/08/2009 1:17 PM |
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John06
You sound just like the association I'm refering to'
believe nothing even if the facts are directly in front of you'
send me your e-mail and I will send you the newspaper articles and the letters I've gotten from the HOA'
your up John06 put your e-mail where your mouth is. |
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TracieS
(Colorado)
Posts:460
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| 07/08/2009 1:18 PM |
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Posted By JohnS25 on 07/08/2009 1:17 PM
John06
You sound just like the association I'm refering to'
believe nothing even if the facts are directly in front of you'
send me your e-mail and I will send you the newspaper articles and the letters I've gotten from the HOA'
your up John06 put your e-mail where your mouth is.
I'll bite...
My internet email is doxiemom75@gmail.com
Send away!
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JohnO6
(Georgia)
Posts:415
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| 07/08/2009 1:22 PM |
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Posted By JohnS25 on 07/08/2009 1:17 PM
John06
You sound just like the association I'm refering to'
believe nothing even if the facts are directly in front of you'
send me your e-mail and I will send you the newspaper articles and the letters I've gotten from the HOA'
your up John06 put your e-mail where your mouth is.
John - Again, I meant no disrespect, but I did notice that you didn't address any of the points I brought up, particularly regarding how your property ended up in the HOA. Either you bought it that way or you gave permission to be added - to my knowledge there is no other possibility.
If you bought it that way, then you should know what you're buying.
If you gave permission, then you should know what you're agreeing to.
Nonetheless, I'm open to receiving the info you'll email.
My email address is:
johnaohman@yahoo.com |
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TracieS
(Colorado)
Posts:460
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| 07/08/2009 1:25 PM |
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Posted By TracieS on 07/08/2009 1:18 PM Posted By JohnS25 on 07/08/2009 1:17 PM
John06
You sound just like the association I'm refering to'
believe nothing even if the facts are directly in front of you'
send me your e-mail and I will send you the newspaper articles and the letters I've gotten from the HOA'
your up John06 put your e-mail where your mouth is. I'll bite... My internet email is doxiemom75@gmail.com Send away!
Oops, I can't remember my own (seldom used) email address!!! Doxiemom@gmail.com (no 75) |
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TracieS
(Colorado)
Posts:460
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| 07/08/2009 1:50 PM |
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Posted By JohnS25 on 07/08/2009 9:40 AM
The management firm had 20 accounts our account was one of them; total money embezzled, now this is according to the ST Petersburg Times; ( if you give me your e-mail I'll be glad to E-Mail the article to you) $800,000. yes thats eight hundred thousand.
I've been ALL over the website for the St Petersburg Times, and I can find no mention of any of this. Was this recent? |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:1148
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| 07/08/2009 2:07 PM |
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John,
If your covenants are like mine the board cannot call for a special assessment nor dip into reserves unless a meeting of owners is called and voted for in the percentage shown in your docs. Check out your docs and if the management company has not adhered to them I would notify the DPR..if serious enough they could lose their license. |
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