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CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/06/2006 6:08 AM
Many of you have given me advice on my previous posts. I thank you all. I truly appreciate all the responses and advice. I have learned so much from all of you concerning HOA issues, which the BOD is confronted with on a daily basis. This goes alone with my previous post title, “Should your vote count” I still feel the same as I did when I wrote that post. Although, I’m not nearly as angry as I once was. I have educated myself by reading all the previously written posts and responses all of you have wrote in the past. I apologize for the long post. On September 23 at 10:00, my association will attempt to hold another election. I will be running once again for position on the BOD! As many of you know the last election was a “flop”. We couldn’t even attain quorum, which really upset me to say the least. I would like your suggestions as to what I can do to ensure that we meet quorum this time? The current BOD has proxies. So we are going to go door to door with these proxies asking the homeowner if they would fill out the proxy so we can have their permission to vote in their behave. We have 275 homes and our CC&Rs states we need 25% of (eligible) homeowners to meet quorum. Last election we were told by the MC we needed 69 votes, total. We had only 17 proxies and a not enough members attended the meeting to total the 69 needed to hold quorum. I believe it was JulieS that had told me that it is 25% of eligible members, not 25% of total members in the association, like I had originally thought. Many of you had mention reducing the % needed for a vote to take place. I have given it some thought and I’ve decided it wouldn’t be wise of me, if I were to try and change the rule. I have been told by the current board that the PM does have an attorney drawing up, what paper work is needed to become a POA. From what I have read a POA only requires 15% to meet quorum and some other benefits that I feel many of the homeowners will appreciate in years to come. If any of you have information on POA, I would be very interested. I don’t want to reiterate what I had previously written earlier in the post. At some point, there will be a time when a vote is required. I feel it should be a majority of votes accumulated, between proxies and attended members (eligible). I don’t think that all the members that are eligible should count against such a vote. I’ll just say this; once the volunteer is elected to the BOD. All we have is three volunteers for four positions. HMMMMM. I’m not a mathematical genius by any means but this would tell me that someone is going to have to fill two of these positions! That’s not fair to me, the community or the person that has to fill that position. Knowing this, I can see why there aren’t enough volunteers when it comes time for elections. If I didn’t feel I would be a great contributor to my community. I wouldn’t have perused this as much as I have. With that being said, Once the board is established you will have three (in our case) to make decisions for the entire community of 275 homes! How is that fair? Can someone explain to me why this rule shouldn’t be changed and why? I feel like I’m just talking in circles about this. What I have heard throughout my entire life and will never agree with, is “it’s been that way for x number of years it hasn't been a problems thus far” or “if it’s not broken don’t fix it” who came up with these “quote”? Again, I’m sorry for the long post. I always appreciate the advice many of you have given me of the past couple of months. Thanks Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3702

09/06/2006 7:08 AM
Chuck, if you have 4 openings and only 3 candidates I would try to recruit a good 4th candidate while going door to door to get proxies. I would also get extra proxies beyond 25% of the total membership just in case some proxies are disqualified.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/06/2006 7:18 AM
Thank you Roger, I hadn’t thought of that. It wouldn’t hurt. I know from the last meeting. We had to ask the people that were there if they would volunteer. We literally made them feel guilty. I will advisor the other board members to get more than the required as well. Just if case the ones that say they are going to be there aren’t! Thanks for the quick response Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/06/2006 7:21 AM
CharlesW1, In your case, the difference between 15% and 25% of eligable mortgage holders is 28 owners. Only those members in good standing are permitted to vote. What I believe you are advocating is basing the quorum requirement upon the number of owners in good standing? What do your by-laws state specifically regarding quorum. If 250 out of 275 are in good standing, your chances of getting quorum are better. What is interesting about this is that situations may occur where owners get elected to the board by a different set of criteria. If in your current election 275 are members in good standing, then 25% quorum is 69 owners. If in the next election 250 are in good standing, than 25% quorum is 63 owners. The number of BOD's to represent the community is typcially and odd number so to avoid a tie vote amongst board members, and based IN PART upon the reality that you'll never be able to inform, the total eligable mortgage holders the details necessary to run an association. The odds of getting a quorum of 3 out of 5 board members to vote on matters are mathematically better than getting 25% of 275 to vote on everything. 3 out of 5 is 60%, 25% of 275 is 69%. Your logic is interesting to me because it seems on the one hand you are advocating a quorum of less, however you say it's unfair that there aren't more helping? Curious what your real feeling is? There are many things in life that are unfair. What is illogical, but part of politics, is the grief that volunteers get for hard work, and honesty. GeraldT1 NNJ

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/06/2006 10:02 AM
GeraldT1, I apologize, for any confusion. It’s very difficult for me to put my thought into word all of you can understand. What I am saying is we have 275 lots (I believe). The by-laws state that in order for a resident to be eligible to vote they would need to be current of their assessments. I have typed what is stated in the by-laws pertaining to quorum. 2.11 Quorum. The presence, in person or by proxy, of members entitled to cast at least twenty-five percent (25%) of the votes entitled to be cast at the meeting shall constitute a quorum at all meetings of the association. The members present at a duly called or held meeting at which quorum is present may continue to do business until adjournment, notwithstanding the withdrawal of enough members to leave less than a quorum. I feel that in order for your vote to count, you should indeed be current on your assessments. You should be a homeowner in the association. I feel they should be present or submit a proxy if they know they will not be attending the election. It shouldn’t be the total number of eligible residents (275). Out of those only the ones that are current on their assessment count! I agree that the homeowner shouldn’t be given the right to vote if he/or she is delinquent on their dues. What I don’t agree with is that all the members on the community are counted even if they are don't summit a proxy or attend! That makes no sense to me! I hope this helps. I maybe just confused about the whole process. I appreciate as always your advice. Thank you Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/06/2006 10:02 AM
GeraldT1, I apologize, for any confusion. It’s very difficult for me to put my thought into word all of you can understand. What I am saying is we have 275 lots (I believe). The by-laws state that in order for a resident to be eligible to vote they would need to be current of their assessments. I have typed what is stated in the by-laws pertaining to quorum. 2.11 Quorum. The presence, in person or by proxy, of members entitled to cast at least twenty-five percent (25%) of the votes entitled to be cast at the meeting shall constitute a quorum at all meetings of the association. The members present at a duly called or held meeting at which quorum is present may continue to do business until adjournment, notwithstanding the withdrawal of enough members to leave less than a quorum. I feel that in order for your vote to count, you should indeed be current on your assessments. You should be a homeowner in the association. I feel they should be present or submit a proxy if they know they will not be attending the election. It shouldn’t be the total number of eligible residents (275). Out of those only the ones that are current on their assessment count! I agree that the homeowner shouldn’t be given the right to vote if he/or she is delinquent on their dues. What I don’t agree with is that all the members on the community are counted even if they are don't summit a proxy or attend! That makes no sense to me! I hope this helps. I maybe just confused about the whole process. I appreciate as always your advice. Thank you Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/06/2006 11:55 AM
ChuckW, Your feeling "in order for your vote to count...." is justified by the by-law. You can't vote unless you are a member in good standing/current in maintenance. If all members are in good standing than a quorum is 69 owners that must be present in person or by proxy. 25% is the constant. 25% of what, is the question. 25% of a reduced voting pool because some are not in good standing??? Do you believe that some members can get elected to the board based upon different criteria? If so, how then do you refute the owner that may claim unfairness that they had a harder time getting elected than you because more owners were in good standing? Does that sound fair, or logical? Who is then to blame, the owners that are paying on time? You could ask management if the quantity of members who are not in good standing. It sounds to me like all the members in your community are. GeraldT1 NNJ

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

09/06/2006 12:22 PM
Dear George: We have had this same struggle since we first started 21 years ago.Our developer wrote our docs nuff said. Ours state 75 percent of the total homesites (307 sites/305 homes)we have never ever even came near to that but I have learned many things in all this time ( Last surviving board member from 1st board )We have never had a maxium number of BOD members our docs allow for 7 members for the last 5 years we have worked with 3 people period. We open every meeting with the following statement If you dont like what we do get on the board and change the way we do things. Most people quit after they are assigned 1 project to handle. If you have 4 slots available and only 3 are running then everybody is on the BOD whats the problem? Yes we 3 carry the responsibility of 305 families, so what in case nobody has told you yet most BODs have several VP but the USA has only 1. So whats the big deal. You get on the BOD and do things for the beterment of the entire community and thats it period. It aint a bucket of fun getting your chops broken for the lawn crew not doing there job or the painters not useing the right tint or listening to people complain cause we only have 12 colors to choose from on the exterior of their homes, the complainers who take up a half hour complainning about others when you sit and look in your laptop about all the violations on their own homes. After awhile you wanna scream. My favorite is , "Why should we have to sit and wait for you guys to do business before we are allowed to talk?" I guees our time counts as nothing. The times you have to close down your own electrical business to go get quotes cause your mc is on voicemail. Yea its really great being on a BOD..............................

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/06/2006 12:39 PM
GeraldT1 I’m not really following you. I don’t mean to sound ignorant. It really doesn’t matter how difficult/ or how “fair” it was for previous board members to be elected. Let’s say that quorum is still 25%. 25% of what you asked? I say 25% of the members present, or of eligible homeowners that filled out a proxy. It has nothing to do with the total number of eligible voters! Why should their vote count if and when the board is established. They then make decisions for the entire community! Just the three, four or five of them! What percentage would that be? HMMMMM. I told you I was mathematically challenged. What is your definition of being involved? I'm just curious. Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/06/2006 1:45 PM
ChuckW, You don't sound ignorant. It may not matter to you how difficult or how fair it was for previous board members, as you say. I find that comment, and your comment "why should their vote count if and when the board is established" shocking Chuck, but will hold my comments regarding qualifications of a board member in abeyance. Is that really what you meant to say? Doesn't a fair procedure matter to the system, to the ethics of being a fiduciary for a community? Do you know what the word fiduciary means, and the responsibility board members have as volunteers? Isn't fairness, and fiscal responsibility why you wish to join the board? Or do you just wish to get in anyway you can, and decide things without the need to interact with the community? I could see how some might interpret quorum on a sliding scale of 25% of a pool that could fluctuate based upon those in good standing or not. But that is an interpretation. I've always considered quorum to be a fixed percentage. In your case 69 owners by person or proxy. If you wish to amend that to a lower threshold, do so, but until then, it seems you must do as your by-laws prescribe. GeraldT1 NNJ ChuckW, Your feeling "in order for your vote to count...." is justified by the by-law. You can't vote unless you are a member in good standing/current in maintenance. If all members are in good standing than a quorum is 69 owners that must be present in person or by proxy. 25% is the constant. 25% of what, is the question. 25% of a reduced voting pool because some are not in good standing??? Do you believe that some members can get elected to the board based upon different criteria? If so, how then do you refute the owner that may claim unfairness that they had a harder time getting elected than you because more owners were in good standing? Does that sound fair, or logical? Who is then to blame, the owners that are paying on time? You could ask management if the quantity of members who are not in good standing. It sounds to me like all the members in your community are. GeraldT1 NNJ

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/07/2006 6:12 AM
GeraldT1, I believe that is what I meant to say. Maybe I’m going about it or saying it the wrong way. My intentions are good for the entire community, which is why I want to be on the board. I just don’t think it’s fair to ME, my family, my friends or the existing board members. Let me try to explain my thought process concerning this whole thing. It doesn’t make any sense to me why votes are counted even if the members are not present or they haven’t submitted a proxy. We have (as I have stated before) 275 homes. JulieS told me in my previous post (why should your vote count) that the 25% needed to meet quorum is the 25% that our by-laws states as such, Out of these 275 homes 206 where eligible to vote.(leaving 69 homeowners delinquent in their dues). The board had collected 17 proxies and a hand full of couple had made an appearance. (15). The total needed to reach a quorum would need to be 52 eligible votes. Obviously, from my previously written posts we didn’t meet quorum so that meant all the volunteers (me included) didn’t get elected to the board. For all the people that showed up and for all the eligible members that submitted a proxy, in essence “their vote didn’t count”, they could have stayed home and gotten a couple hours of sleep, mow their lawn, spent time with their family. There are hundreds of things, I myself would have rather been doing. This may not be the proper way to express my feelings, and for that I apologize. I would appreciate your opinion on the “flip side” of all of this. Is it fair to all the people who did attend or submitted a proxy? What about the current board members, those who have to continue to serve on the board because the members of their community didn’t attend or didn’t feel they needed to be involved? Now it that “fair”? I can’t change what heart ache was felt when it come to previously volunteered board members. I’m doing what I feel would be right of a homeowner wanted to be involved, like many of you have done or are doing now. We have 10 or 20 different committees that our homeowners could be involved in. I feel the obligated to inform you of just who is involved in those committees, many of the people that made an appearance at the meetings and the board members themselves. Keep in mind, as you may already be aware that this is a “voluntary” HOA. Many of the homeowners that are on these committees are or have previously been on the board. Many of these same “volunteers” have jobs (full or part-time), and a life outside of the associations obligations. It’s just really frustrating to me to want to do what would be best for me and my family, by running for the board Only to have my hopes determined by those who are not involved! COME ON!! You don’t even have to be Pro-HOA to know that it’s not “fair”. How is that fair to anyone? HMMMMM I don’t feel any member of a community should consider them selves “involved” because they pay their assessment, mow their lawn, and follow the rules and regulations set forth in the CC&Rs. That isn’t being “involved” IMO!! When an individual chooses to live in community with an HOA, He/She has made the concuss preference to surround their family with any and all means of security that is available for their family. My intention for being on the board has nothing to do with what I consider to be right or wrong. I don’t agree with a majority of the by-laws but they were written in the best interest of the entire community, and that a respect! I respect your views; I don’t mean to come across as impolite, by any means. Thanks as always, Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

09/07/2006 7:08 AM
Dear CharlesW1: We have this same thing happen every year. What you do not understand is a HOA is a business with business style rules and regs. Fair does not exist in business just rules and regs. You ought to be in construction. I am fighting with a Building Dept in Florida that lives under engineering rules from an engineer in the opposite end of the state. Thats life fair dont exist my friend. You are gonna find that out once you end up on a BOD. In addition you better get a handle on your MC you are the employer and they are your employee never ever let them dictate hoa policy to you listen to their advice and have a private discussion and then tell them how you want things done. You cannot have 2 bosses on any project period. That being said and me not having a set of your docs, heres how I would handle the problem 1. Meeting called to order. 2. Insufficent numbers to qualify for a qorium( My spelling stinks bad computer) 3. Since we cannot have a vote on a new board are there any volunteers to come on the board? 4. Welcome the new members as direct board members to finish the terms of positions not filled, or ever filled. 5. Are there any board members who wish to resign? 6. Are there any additional members who wish to serve? 7. After all the quitting and joining before the President is allowed to resign, quit, or leave he/she is the last to leave the meeting. 8. You then vote for who fills what position! Pres, vp treas, secretary. 9. Or if no one quits the board stays in place and if your docs allow you can add auxiliary board members or alternate board members This what we do every year for the past 5 years. Understand your stuck with members who do not will not and totally refuse to get involved with anything. But they are also the first ones to tell you what you have done wrong. You will also find out its your fault the sun dont shine or there toilet dont flush. You think im kidding ask Laura Bush why its Georges fault that people in supposedly his govt stab him in the back as they will also do to you. Thats part of being in America Good luck the reason for the % on listed members is its a state requirement. Laws are written by lawyers to protect lawyers and to give lawyers jod security. Thats why we need more mommys in as leaders in our country. Down with the lawyers......

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/07/2006 7:37 AM
ChuckW, Your best bet to reach quorum is to get the proxies of 69 owners in your community, a majority of which are in favor of your election. An election meeting on a Saturday is no guarantee of increased participation. Many prefer to sleep in, tune out, clean house, or go shopping. Please understand the definition of quorum. Quorum is the minimum percentage required in person or proxy for a meeting to occur by board members, or vote to be taken by board members and owners. The minimum quorum in your community for an election vote is 69 owners, not 52, check your math. Do not confuse quorum with votes. Regarding your statement, "Out of these 275 homes 206 where eligible to vote.(leaving 69 homeowners delinquent in their dues)", my response is as follows: Take 25% of 275, you get a minimum of 69 owners to achieve quorum, not 69 owners delinquent in their dues. Interestingly, quorum can fluctuate upwards of 69 owners. Because if 80 owners attend, or submit a proxy, quorum is increased to 80, so on and so forth. Once the quorum is achieved, you need a majority of the quorum to achieve a resolution, in your case election of owners to the board. So a majority of 80 owners is 41, a majority of 69 owners is 36. A bit of campaign advise, if your going door to door, I suggest being methodical and consider the total amount of proxies you really wish to collect once you get a quorum of 69 and a majority of those are in favor of your election. Regarding your statement, "It doesn’t make any sense to me why votes are counted even if the members are not present or they haven’t submitted a proxy.", my reply is as follows: Votes are not counted by those that do not submit a proxy or attend a meeting. Do not confuse quorum with votes. Regarding your statement, "What about the current board members, those who have to continue to serve on the board because the members of their community didn’t attend or didn’t feel they needed to be involved? Now it that “fair”?", my reply is as follows: No on is holding a gun to their head to stay on the board, what do your by-laws allow for the occurrence of vacancies on the board? Can the sitting board members fill the vacancy themselves? If your by-laws do allow board members to elect in the event of a vacancy, why didn't one or two of the sitting board members relinquish their spots, and allow the remaining board members to elect you, and or one of the current willing campaigners to the board? If you wish to define quorum as 25% of a number that can fluctuate based upon those current in maintenance, please get it on attorney letterhead. Your future is being ruled by a set of criteria for those that participate. Is that too much to ask? You are not held to get the entire community, just 69 or more to have an outcome. Checks and balances are part of every walk of life. Best of success!! GeraldT1 NNJ

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/07/2006 8:55 AM
I hear what you both are saying. I guess I just need to agree to what the by-laws state. They are as they are. As they say “build a bridge a get over it” It appears that, I don’t know the difference. I apologize! I thought it was when a minimum number of people who must be present (physically or by proxy) in order for a decision to be binding. At least that is the definition I found on- line. Would you please clarify this for me then? We have 275 lots (houses built) out of these 69 are delinquent with their dues. This leaves 206 eligible to vote physically or by proxy. Is it 25% of those eligible or it is 25% of the 275 total. If that is the case then, I was misinformed! Again, I would need to ask for forgiveness to you and everyone else for my misinterpretation of a quorum. We have three volunteers now on the BOD. Two of them want this to be their last year servicing. I had mentioned to the board if they didn’t want to serve any longer then, they should just resign. If they resign could they then elect the volunteers to fill there spots? Because the volunteers are at such a minimum it wouldn’t even be a vote! Voting for whom? There isn’t like there a hundred to choose from. There is literally just enough to fill the positions. I guess there would be two choices 1- the volunteers, and 2- no one the board stays as it is. Right? I appreciate the good advice. I will keep all that you state in mind as I make my rounds her soon enough. Appreciate you educating me as too what a quorum is and what it is not. Thanks, Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/07/2006 9:07 AM
Chuck, I find it coincidental, and next to impossible that the same number your community needs to acheive quorum 69, is the same number of owners that are delinquent 69. Check your facts on how many are delinquent. 1) Ask management the number that are delinquent. 2) Ask management the number you need to achieve quorum. Post management's reply. In the event you are unsuccessful achieving quorum, suggest to management and your board to follow JohnM3's 9 steps: 1. Meeting called to order. 2. Insufficent numbers to qualify for a quorum. 3. Since we cannot have a vote on a new board are there any volunteers to come on the board? 4. Welcome the new members as direct board members to finish the terms of positions not filled, or ever filled. 5. Are there any board members who wish to resign? 6. Are there any additional members who wish to serve? 7. After all the quitting and joining before the President is allowed to resign, quit, or leave he/she is the last to leave the meeting. 8. You then vote for who fills what position! Pres, vp treas, secretary. 9. Or if no one quits the board stays in place and if your docs allow you can add auxiliary board members or alternate board members. GeraldT1 NNJ

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/07/2006 9:59 AM
Gerald, Call it like you see it. The property manager, I and the current BOD all talked about the number of delinquencies. Ironically that number was the exact same as 25% of 275.HMMMM, we too found it to be nearly impossible as well. We were saying “right there is are quorum” LOL I’m not sure if our documents allow us to add auxiliary board members or not. I will have to ask. Again appreciate all the advice. Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/07/2006 10:09 AM
Chuck, Again, coincidental, and next to impossible. And my second question was, 2) Ask management the number you need to achieve quorum. Is it still 69? GeraldT1 NNJ

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/07/2006 11:22 AM
Gerald, You are right about it being “coincidental”, and “next to impossible.” Although it was no longer next to impossible, when I was there and I witnessed the entire process! It happened! I’ll check with the property manager as see what will be required to meet quorum for this election. I know in our by-laws it states in order to be eligible to vote, you must be current on your assessment. 25% of those current on their dues will be eligible to vote. So the more that pay (which is a good thing) the assessment is that much more required to reach quorum. You take 275 lots and, let’s say 220 are current on their dues. Well 25% of 220 is 55 members would be needed to reach quorum! This is the way you would figure it, right? I’ll check with the PM, right now. Thanks again Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/07/2006 11:22 AM
Gerald, You are right about it being “coincidental”, and “next to impossible.” Although it was no longer next to impossible, when I was there and I witnessed the entire process! It happened! I’ll check with the property manager as see what will be required to meet quorum for this election. I know in our by-laws it states in order to be eligible to vote, you must be current on your assessment. 25% of those current on their dues will be eligible to vote. So the more that pay (which is a good thing) the assessment is that much more required to reach quorum. You take 275 lots and, let’s say 220 are current on their dues. Well 25% of 220 is 55 members would be needed to reach quorum! This is the way you would figure it, right? I’ll check with the PM, right now. Thanks again Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/07/2006 11:22 AM
Gerald, You are right about it being “coincidental”, and “next to impossible.” Although it was no longer next to impossible, when I was there and I witnessed the entire process! It happened! I’ll check with the property manager as see what will be required to meet quorum for this election. I know in our by-laws it states in order to be eligible to vote, you must be current on your assessment. 25% of those current on their dues will be eligible to vote. So the more that pay (which is a good thing) the assessment is that much more required to reach quorum. You take 275 lots and, let’s say 220 are current on their dues. Well 25% of 220 is 55 members would be needed to reach quorum! This is the way you would figure it, right? I’ll check with the PM, right now. Thanks again Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/07/2006 11:41 AM
Chuck, All those current on their dues will be eligible to vote, not just 25%. Your statement, "Well 25% of 220 is 55 members would be needed to reach quorum!" is not the way I would figure it, it is not correct!! GeraldT1 NNJ

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3702

09/07/2006 12:04 PM
Chuck, you are correct that 25% of 220 is 55. So if only members in good standing are included in the quorum requirement then 25% of 220 is 55, which would be the minimum required for a quorum. When you get proxies go only to homes which are eligible to vote. I don't believe you meant to say that only 25% of those current on their dues are eligible; all 220 are eligible and can provide a valid proxy.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/07/2006 1:37 PM
RogerB & Chuck, What's interesting about the sliding scale concept of quorum is that it creates a situation where it's easier to achieve quorum for one election than it is for another. Therefore, board members can get elected by different criteria. Think about that, it defies logic. IMO, Chuck needs to go for 69 owners, just in case there's a dispute (say an owner claims they were not in arrears), that's WHY I'm pushing him towards that end of going for 69!!! Best of luck in the races!! GeraldT1 NNJ

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

09/07/2006 2:53 PM
All wrong its 25 percent of the members period. But to be eligible you must be current in your dues. Stop speaking fair your dealing in government law not fair show me where fair is found in any set of docs or by-laws get off that band wagon fair dont count period period period period period,period.......

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

09/07/2006 3:22 PM
Dear CharlesW Sir you are forgiven big time. The only reason I am opening my yap is I have been thru this 19 times. Its 25 percent of the membership. With a caveat which is the only folks allowed to actually vote/ or contribute proxies to vote are eligible members. period Research your docs for associate members etc. What we found was our docs allow our officers Pres, VP,Sec.Treas to hold office but they do not have to be on the BODs just members of the association. Just ask the tired directors to quit ( In a nice way ) Check your docs ours allows us to kick BOD members of the bod if they miss 3 consecutive meetings. Its fairle hard making suggestions w/o your docs in front of me.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/07/2006 3:32 PM
JohnM3, Qualify who you consider "all" in "all wrong". As I've stated, I've always considered quorum to be a fixed percentage. For various reasons. In Chuck's case it's 25%. I think you need to re-read the posts. In my mind, there is only one person that is wrong regarding quorum, and it isn't Chuck because he is not sure himself. GeraldT1 NNJ

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

09/07/2006 4:38 PM
I thought I knew, but I am not all that sure anymore. I am seriously confused. I have given examples of what I think it says and have asked if this is right? I then have asked what a quorum is. I thought one thing and then was told something else. This is what my CC&Rs state regarding- 2.11 Quorum. The presence, in person or by proxy, of members entitled to cast at least twenty-five percent (25%) of the votes entitled to be cast at the meeting shall constitute a quorum at all meetings of the association. The members present at a duly called or held meeting at which quorum is present may continue to do business until adjournment, notwithstanding the withdrawal of enough members to leave less than a quorum. I do appreciate all the advice you all have posted to me and to others who visit this discussion forum. I’m learning from all of you with each post and response you write. I too look forward to reading many of your responses. Your advice is always very professional. Thank you all Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

WilliamT
(Arizona)

Posts:489

09/07/2006 4:53 PM
Our bylaws say a quorum is 1/10 of the Members entitled to vote. If one is delinquent in assessments or other amounts due for 15 days, our CC&R's state tht they are not elegible to vote. Using simple hypothetical numbers, if we have 200 homes and everyone is current in their dues, the quorum requirement is 20 members. If 25 members are in arrears over 15 days, they are not eligible to vote. That makes the quorum lower. 200 - 25 x .10 = 18 required for a quorum.

WilliamT
(Arizona)

Posts:489

09/07/2006 5:09 PM
Posted By CharlesW1 on 09/07/2006 4:38 PM This is what my CC&Rs state regarding- 2.11 Quorum. The presence, in person or by proxy, of members entitled to cast at least twenty-five percent (25%) of the votes entitled to be cast at the meeting shall constitute a quorum at all meetings of the association. The members present at a duly called or held meeting at which quorum is present may continue to do business until adjournment, notwithstanding the withdrawal of enough members to leave less than a quorum.Thank you all Chuck W. I iterpret your CC&R's the same as ours. If members are not entitled to vote, they do not count toward the quorum. You gave the example of 275 lots with 220 eligible to vote, and a requirement of 25% of eligible members for a quorum. Your answer, which is to take 25% of 220 which calls for 55 members for the quorum is correct, the way I interpret the reading of the covenant.

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

09/07/2006 5:16 PM
Are you sure that the major heading does not say Yearly Meeting. Cause if your monthly meetings are being held under thid criteria its impossible to have monthly meetings without 25 percent of the members of the community. Period

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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > How can I make certain we meet quorum?