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MaryA1

Posts:0

06/11/2009 3:26 PM
Donna & Eva, That was my mistake. I said Karl's assn was a condo when I meant to say planned community (HOA). Sorry!

MaryA1

Posts:0

06/11/2009 3:39 PM
Donna, Here it is: "617.0721(6) Subsections (1), (2), (4), and (5) do not apply to a corporation that is an association as defined in s. 720.301." Subsection (2) deals with proxies. The referenced statute -- 720.301 -- defines homeowners association. From what I understand, a limited proxy only means that the proxy holder is limited on what he can vote on; in other words, the proxy holder can only vote on specific matters. A limited proxy has nothing to do with how long the proxy is in effect. The proxy form itself should state for how long it is valid. I've copied below the proxy subsection from Chapt 720. As you can see, it does not state only a limited proxy can be used. Like most statutes I've seen, and also most bylaws, it only states a proxy can be used. I've never seen a bylaw or state statute which defines the type of proxy that can be used. May I ask who advised you that the wording in this statute means only a limited proxy can be used? 720.306(8) PROXY VOTING.--The members have the right, unless otherwise provided in this subsection or in the governing documents, to vote in person or by proxy. To be valid, a proxy must be dated, must state the date, time, and place of the meeting for which it was given, and must be signed by the authorized person who executed the proxy. A proxy is effective only for the specific meeting for which it was originally given, as the meeting may lawfully be adjourned and reconvened from time to time, and automatically expires 90 days after the date of the meeting for which it was originally given. A proxy is revocable at any time at the pleasure of the person who executes it. If the proxy form expressly so provides, any proxy holder may appoint, in writing, a substitute to act in his or her place.

EvaM1
(Florida)

Posts:190

06/11/2009 4:05 PM
As you can see, it does not state only a limited proxy can be used. Like most statutes I've seen, and also most bylaws, it only states a proxy can be used. I've never seen a bylaw or state statute which defines the type of proxy that can be used. May I ask who advised you that the wording in this statute means only a limited proxy can be used? Mary __ Gee wizz, I hate to bud in again. Mary where did Donna say anything about 'limited proxies'? I may be going blind. But I do agree that most statutes say a 'proxy' can be used. Now, Jeff comes in and says 'directed proxies' are allowed in MD.' Whoa. I'd say proxies are a pain in the 'bud' if you ask me.

MaryA1

Posts:0

06/11/2009 4:12 PM
Eva, From Donna response at 1:35 PM today: "After the year 2000, when the 720 and 718s were written, they had the 90 days proxy time limit added. This is what we use, that is why they are considered as a limited proxy also containing other limitations."

EvaM1
(Florida)

Posts:190

06/11/2009 4:52 PM
From Donna response at 1:35 PM today: "After the year 2000, when the 720 and 718s were written, they had the 90 days proxy time limit added. This is what we use, that is why they are considered as a limited proxy also containing other limitations." MAry. __ Mary, 90 day limit and other limitations? What does that mean? I thought 'limited proxy' means a proxy which means to establish a quorum and other non-substative issues. Yes, it is limited to 90 days because if the quorum is not established the membership has some time to call another meeting. Also see Ann post on the condo laws on 6/8 at 2:24 am. BTW, is there a moderator on this site who steps in when some issue really need clarification?

EvaM1
(Florida)

Posts:190

06/11/2009 5:22 PM
Just to add to my previous msg.. we use general proxies and they are also limited to 90 days.

AnnJ1
(Florida)

Posts:107

06/11/2009 5:47 PM
Hi Eva, Holy cow! This thread is bordering on the "longest thread of the forum award" I was away a couple of days and haven't devoured all of it, but am jumping in to give my understanding of proxies. General and limited proxies - commonalities for proxy validity : 1.) Must be dated 2.) Must be signed 3.) Must state the date, time and place of the meeting for which it is given 4.) Must have an expiration date (limiting the date does NOT make it a "limited" proxy) 5.) Must indicate who the proxy holder is 6.) Is revocable As per Atty Joe Adams of Attys Becker & Poliokoff: A limited proxy is the functional equivalent of an absentee ballot, as it specifically directs the proxy holder how to vote on an issue, and leaves no room for the proxy holder to exercise his own discretion. A general proxy, on the other hand, vests the proxy holder with all of the voting authority of the member as if the member were at the meeting himself. Hope this helps! Ann

EvaM1
(Florida)

Posts:190

06/11/2009 6:37 PM
Ann, I was wondering where you were hiding. Ha. Thanks, I have almost everything I need, I think. We use general proxies and most people just do not like it. Decided to borrow your ‘limited proxy’, hope you do not mind. Other than that, am proposing ‘mail-in ballots’ for the important stuff. The next step is a review by the members (need their votes) and in September am handing the entire package to an attorney. So, we shall see. But, still have a lot of work to do on other issues, including processing of leases, the financial stuff, reviews of insurance policies and if those comply with the covenants, enforcement of covenants , etc. Yak..

AnnJ1
(Florida)

Posts:107

06/11/2009 6:50 PM
Eva, YVW and glad you will find some good use for the proxy form. Good luck with your "ambitious" project.... as the saying goes.."better you than me!" Ann

EvaM1
(Florida)

Posts:190

06/11/2009 8:27 PM
Mary, am very sorry I totally overlooked your message to Donna.. yes, Anna posted Limited Proxie here. This is the best one I have seen so far.

KarlA1
(Florida)

Posts:62

06/12/2009 7:38 PM
Posted By EvaM1 on 06/09/2009 8:43 PM Karl, am glad you renewed the covenants. The By-laws did not have any dates, any signatures and I just was not sure if it was just a draft No quorum? Actually you need 24 people. Are you going to have to have another member's meeting? Proxies do not expire for 90 days. I do not think the old board can continue the way you described it. But hey, anything is possible in Florida. Today I got several books from our library. Guide to Voting ' Joyce Stephens' 'Florida Homeowners Association' by ' Peter M Dunbar' (2005) 'Florida Condominium Concept' Peter M Dunbar' (2008). This is a good book. Since HOAs have adopted some of condo laws, it is not a waste of time to read it. Well, good luck and it was nice meeting you. Eva, yeah our attorney actually informed us that our documents are about to expire, so we renewed them. Regarding the quorum though ... our governing documents don't specify a quorum and therefore according to the F.S. the quorum is 30% 720.306 Meetings of members; voting and election procedures; amendments.-- (1) QUORUM; AMENDMENTS.-- (a) Unless a lower number is provided in the bylaws, the percentage of voting interests required to constitute a quorum at a meeting of the members shall be 30 percent of the total voting interests. so we have 75 members and 30% of that is 22.5 --> 23 ... so we need 23 votes for a quorum. Unless there is a different section somewhere that requires 24 people.

Cheers Karl

EvaM1
(Florida)

Posts:190

06/12/2009 7:51 PM
Hi Karl, I made a mistake, didn’t I? I had 78 members in my notes. Don't ask me why. And how you read the ‘quorum provision’? # of people who attend the meeting in person ? Or, in person and by proxy? Just curious.

KarlA1
(Florida)

Posts:62

06/12/2009 8:21 PM
Posted By DonnaS on 06/11/2009 1:35 PM ... Condo Statutes are 718 which is what Karl uses. DonnaS ... we are an HOA and therefore are governed by Chapter 720 ... not 718.

Cheers Karl

KarlA1
(Florida)

Posts:62

06/12/2009 9:04 PM
Posted By EvaM1 on 06/12/2009 7:51 PM Hi Karl, I made a mistake, didn’t I? I had 78 members in my notes. Don't ask me why. And how you read the ‘quorum provision’? # of people who attend the meeting in person ? Or, in person and by proxy? Just curious. Eva, we always count proxies and members present to determine if we have a quorum or not. Now whether this is the correct way to do it or not ... beats the heck out of me ... HeHe. And quite honestly I don't think the Board really looses sleep about it either, because I pointed out quite a few things already, which are done differently than described in the Bylaws, and one board member always says ... we've done it that way for 20 years already. My answer to this is , doing something for 20 years, doesn't necessarily make it right. If I rob banks for 20 years, does that make it legal? Don't think so ... if you get caught you will be put away. So, but now I am getting off the subject. Karl

Cheers Karl

MaryA1

Posts:0

06/12/2009 9:14 PM
Karl, The quorum should be determined by counting proxies, members present and mail-in ballots. All votes received should be counted for quorum purposes. The next time you get the reply "We've done it that way for 20 years already", you should say "And now it's about time you start doing it the right way!"

JeanK2
(Florida)

Posts:4

01/07/2012 10:32 PM
Ann, In Sept 2010 our HOA President was 6 months behind on his HOA dues on the balance of his lot inventory. The HOA records document and record the status. Based on your reading of 718.111(13)(n) can members press for board member removal by statute?

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3806

01/07/2012 10:54 PM
Jean, It's best to make a new topic rather than reactivate a thread that is over 2 years old. This is because laws change and advice that might have been good in 2009 might not be good advice in 2012. Also, I don't see a 718.111(13)(n). Are you looking at the latest version of the statute? Here is a link to FL 718 - the Condominium Act. and to FL 718.111 Typically, the membership may petition the Board for a special meeting to recall a board member or the whole board with or without cause. Hope this helps. Again, it's best to start a new topic. Tim

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