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Subject: Petition Sample
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Author Messages
JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/04/2009 7:23 AM  
Hello all,

Excuse me for hijacking a prior thread. I thought my problems were along the same lines as the original poster of that thread, that's why I posted in that thread.

I have unsuccessfully performed a search on this site (and the internet) to find a sample of a petition to have a BOD director (redundant?) removed. The director happens to be the president and we have many grievances against him. First and foremost he illegally removed a fellow director by stating he resigned. This director never resigned, nor did he produce a written resignation which is required for resignation per our bylaws. The president has also illegally levied fines against certain individuals without following proper protocols. Also, the latest minutes just received from the last meeting 3 months ago has some false and fraudulent information. He has also harassed tenants in the building, one of which has a restraining order filed against the president. The list goes on and on with this idiot...

I would imagine that the petition should list our grievances against said director. I have never been part of a petition, so I am asking if someone can provide a generic sample. I have found lots of info regarding starting a petition, but not one which provides an actual sample of one. Your help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


06/04/2009 7:45 AM  
I don't have a sample for you, but, are you sure you guys don't live in Indiana?

There was a condo association there (just across the river from me) that had a similar problem with their board president! He was eventually arrested for tampering with the election (he was "caught on tape" stealing ballots and destroying them!)

JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/04/2009 8:37 AM  
From what I gather on this site, I have a feeling this junk goes on all over.

The board member, who was illegally removed by the president, was present at the last meeting. However, the minutes do not state him as being a present member. Is this fraud is your eyes?
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5156


06/04/2009 8:45 AM  
Joe, somewhere in your CC&R's (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions) there should be a section on how to re-call a Board member and how to call for a special meeting including who to and how to deliver it. Since I don't have your documents I'll wing it with mine (be sure to change the sections cited to match your CC&R's)

We the undersigned homeowners in good standing constituting 40% of the members entitled to cast ballots as required in Section 1.5 (B) Special Meetings of the By-Laws request that a Special Meeting be called to remove Joe Blow from his position as a Board Member of Pie in the Sky HOA and if successful; to elect his replacement.

Then have a spot for the H/O to print his name and unit/parcel number and a place to sign it. If you can, get more than the required number of signatures in case some are declared void and make sure you make copies of everything before you submit it.



No it's not fraud IMHO but it should be rectified in the minutes. Where are the other BOD members, the president is only one person; entitled to one vote. While he has specified duties relevant to his position, chair meetings, sign contracts, etc. When it comes to Board matters he has but one vote and can be overturned by the other members if they are a majority.

"Common sense is like deodorant--the people who need it most never use it."
JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/04/2009 8:57 AM  
The minutes will need to be approved at the next meeting, which should be interesting. The secretary and the pres. are cronies. They pretty much run the association together with no transparency. The 3rd member was illegally removed. The fourth member is against the cronies. The fifth member was just approved to be on the board at the last meeting by the board, because no one ran at the last election due to not wanting to be any part of this circus.
JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/04/2009 9:15 AM  
ps... I am the illegally removed director.
JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:967


06/04/2009 9:23 AM  
Joe,

I'll bite. How were you illegally removed?
SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


06/04/2009 9:27 AM  
Joe - I am ASSUMING there was a motion to remove this board member (now you tell us this is you) and that there was a vote. All this needs to be in the minutes. Since the minutes don't have you down as present, this can be fixed when these minutes are "approved."

The president, alone, cannot "remove" a director, (unless he had power to appoint this board member, he MAY have the power to un-appoint). Your bylaws should outline the procedures for removing a board member.

With so many things wrong here, why are you even accepting this forced removal? What do the other board members say?


JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/04/2009 9:36 AM  
Posted By JohnK3 on 06/04/2009 9:23 AM
Joe,

I'll bite. How were you illegally removed?





Two meetings ago the president gave a spiel as to how he has the authority to reduce the board from 5 members to 3 members... which is complete BS in my eyes. He knows I do not like him and his bully ways, and I will stand up for what is fair. After he went on and on about how he can do this legally, I stated "If you are looking to get rid of me, then just say so". He said "you're gone". I stood up and left the meeting. The next day he had the audacity to say he thanked me for being on the board and resigning peacefully. I told him to go suck an egg (in so many words) and that I did not resign, but was fired. He said by my actions, I resigned. I pointed out that our bylaws state a resignation needs to be in writing, which never happened. I showed up to the next meeting and the president and secretary said they would not recognize me as a board member (nor did they recognize me in the minutes as being a present association member). I have asked numerous times in writing, though our management company (who has provided me in writing that my request was received by the president), for the president to provide me with a written statement as to why I am not listed as an active board member. This request continues to go unanswered.
JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:967


06/04/2009 10:05 AM  
Joe,

I will guess most of our frequent correspondents will agree with me that:

1. Your prez should be relieved of his Boardship.
2. Your PM should be relieved of his/her/their duties.
3. Those board members who support this BS should also be sent packing

assuming your docs don't afford prez these supposed powers and your docs provided for a recall process.

I agree that you did not resign (but also see your docs for that procedure, too).

JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/04/2009 10:17 AM  
Posted By SusanW1 on 06/04/2009 9:27 AM
Joe - I am ASSUMING there was a motion to remove this board member (now you tell us this is you) and that there was a vote. All this needs to be in the minutes. Since the minutes don't have you down as present, this can be fixed when these minutes are "approved."

The president, alone, cannot "remove" a director, (unless he had power to appoint this board member, he MAY have the power to un-appoint). Your bylaws should outline the procedures for removing a board member.

With so many things wrong here, why are you even accepting this forced removal? What do the other board members say?






Thanks Susan.
JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/04/2009 10:18 AM  
Posted By GlenL on 06/04/2009 8:45 AM
Joe, somewhere in your CC&R's (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions) there should be a section on how to re-call a Board member and how to call for a special meeting including who to and how to deliver it. Since I don't have your documents I'll wing it with mine (be sure to change the sections cited to match your CC&R's)

We the undersigned homeowners in good standing constituting 40% of the members entitled to cast ballots as required in Section 1.5 (B) Special Meetings of the By-Laws request that a Special Meeting be called to remove Joe Blow from his position as a Board Member of Pie in the Sky HOA and if successful; to elect his replacement.

Then have a spot for the H/O to print his name and unit/parcel number and a place to sign it. If you can, get more than the required number of signatures in case some are declared void and make sure you make copies of everything before you submit it.



No it's not fraud IMHO but it should be rectified in the minutes. Where are the other BOD members, the president is only one person; entitled to one vote. While he has specified duties relevant to his position, chair meetings, sign contracts, etc. When it comes to Board matters he has but one vote and can be overturned by the other members if they are a majority.




Thanks Glen... and everyone else who has responded. Life is way to short (and complicated) to have to put up with this nonsense.
MaryA1


Posts:0


06/04/2009 1:27 PM  
Joe,

Normally a board member can only be removed by the membership, unless he was appointed by the BOD or Pres. The BOD only has the power to remove an officer from his position but he will remain a director.

From where I sit, IMO, the only way you can right this wrong (short of legal action) is if you have a majority of the board members in your favor. They could welcome you back as a board member and have this guy removed as Pres. If that is not a possibility then I would try to find enough people to for a recall committee and proceed to have this guy recalled. He doesn't deserve to be on the board, much less be president. Don't the other members of the board know that the president doesn't make decisions on his own or are they a bunch of fraidy-cats who bow down to his every command? To quote from an old commercial, it just "chaps my hide" when I hear stories like this.
EverettC
(Maryland)

Posts:90


06/04/2009 6:27 PM  
Joe,

Others have commented on the procedures to remove the president. I agree with what has already been said on that topic. I would like to focus on your status as director.

As you have suggested, a resignation usually must be in writing (but check your documents). Since you didn't resign in writing, I would take the position that you simply left the meeting.

Furthermore, reducing the size of the board probably requires an action by the board; it doesn't sound like that happened. Have they tried to appoint someone to fill your position? Or have they "officially" (even if the action is not effective) reduced the size of the board?

However, make sure that the documents don't allow the board to declare your board position vacant if you are absent for X number of consecutive meetings. Our documents give the board the right to "declare the office of a member of the Board of Directors to be vacant in the event such member shall be absent from three (3) consecutive regular meetings of the Board of Directors." That may be the reason they don't show you as present in the minutes.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


06/04/2009 6:39 PM  
To be "offically" resigned, the board would have had to motion to accept the resignation - and that needs to be in the minutes of the meeting. So if it ain't in the minutes, it didn't happen.

You say that resignations must be in writing and presented to the board for acceptance. SOMETIMES a verbal resignation will be accepted by the board, but only after being quickly accepted by the board.

If you really want to stay on the board, then continue to attend meetings.

Otherwise, consider yourself a member only, and work from the outside to remove the president.

JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/04/2009 8:46 PM  
Thanks for everyone's input. Our bylaws blatantly state a resignation must be in writing. And thankfully so, or else this guy would say any board member who does not agree with him has given him a verbal resignation.

Mary, Yes I am afraid there are too many "fraidy-cats" in our building who may not want to stir the water to have this guy removed. He is an original owner (25+ years) and people are afraid of this czar-wanna-be. He has accepted many written resignations over the years from members who became fed up with him and his antics.

Everett asked "Have they tried to appoint someone to fill your position?" - No they have not. They have posted a list of board members in our lobby, and of course I am not on it. The 5th board position was approved by the board (even me - although the minutes do not reflect my presence at the meeting) at our last meeting because no one else (who was eligible) ran for the board. Which brings up another issue... After we had our annual meeting/election this year, there was suppose to be a meeting for board member for the purpose of electing officers (per our bylaws). This meeting never took place. Bozo somehow decided he would remain president. This by itself is complete fraud...in my book, and probably another issue which could be added to the petition.

Getting the number of signatures required for the petition that will call for a special meeting to remove the bad apple will be easy. Getting the 51% of members (who are in good standing - i.e. are not past due on HOA dues) may not be so easy - too many feeble people. Do you think we would be better off keeping the petition basic, or should we hammer every known violation against him? Thanks again...


JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/04/2009 8:53 PM  
Susan, No - there is nothing in the minutes about my resignation, nor a vote on it. Our board does not vote anyway. An issue comes up and someone makes a motion and then someone else will second it, and that is the extent of the vote. Although I have brought this to the attention of the board, there remains no official vote on issues. Robert's Rules do not apply here. Another complete joke.
EverettC
(Maryland)

Posts:90


06/05/2009 9:32 AM  
Joe -

GlenL provided an excellent sample of a petition for a special meeting. Check your documents, in many cases the documents provide that a director may be removed "with or without cause". In other words, no reason must be given.

If you give a reason in the petition, he may be able to convince enough people that the specific is wrong and that he should not be removed. Also, the other members may be unconfortable signing a petition with specific charges if they have no personal knowledge of the situation. IMHO, it is better not to put specifics into the petition.

If you can't get the fraidy-cats to the special meeting, maybe you should try getting proxies from them (assuming that your documents and state law permit them).

Sounds like there may be a cadre of former board members who might be willing to support you, if not join you in throwing out the bad apples.

It appears that under Illinois law meetings of the board are open to all members - see, http://www.keaycostello.com/omoa.htm for a discussion. If I were you, I would record the board meetings and take copious notes (to disprove any attempts by the prez to claim that you were not attending). (The article refers to HB 4763, which was not enacted into law).


JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/05/2009 10:21 AM  
Thanks for the advice Everett. Our bylaws do state "with or without cause". Sounds like not giving a reason might be the best way to go.
JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/06/2009 5:55 AM  
I have a couple more questions...


Is it best to submit our petition to the management company?

Who will choose when the special meeting is to take place? (By-Laws do not specify.) Is it up to the board, or can we (those signing the petition) request a date and time for the special meeting when we submit the petition?

I'm afraid certain members of the board may stonewall the meeting date and time.

We are thinking of sending out a letter to all unit owners (especially the non-resident owners) about the special meeting in order to gather as many proxies as possible. Also to advise them to get their account is "good standing" if it is not already in order for their vote to count. Do you think this is a good idea?
MaryA1


Posts:0


06/06/2009 6:50 AM  
Joe,

You asked about the wording of the petition. I would keep it as simple as possible. State a few of the more blatant violations this guy has committed and leave it at that. I'm sure the members will get the message.

Since you have a management co, YES, I would submit the petition to your mgr. Considering the mindset of this Pres, he probably would just ignore it. Once the BOD receives the petition the ball is in their court. They are resp. for sending out the notice of a special meeting and choosing the date. Check out the IL state laws (I hope you're in a condo as I don't think there are any pertaining to planned communities (single family homes)!). AZ has a separate statute pertaining to recalls. If there's nothing in the state statutes then you're at the mercy of the BOD. Sorry, but that's the way it is. It can't hurt to send your own letter to the members asking for proxies, etc. I certainly hope the official meeting notice will be sent to all members, even those who are non-residents! Even the non-resident members have a right to be informed of all member meetings so they can exercise their right to vote.

Somewhere in this thread it was asked if the board has reduced the number of board members. Remember, they cannot state the size of the board has been reduced because of your resignation. First of all, you didn't resign; and secondly they did not officially take this action. It's time the BOD was called on their misguidance in not voting on issues they've discussed. IMO, if no vote is taken then the action is not legal or binding.
JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/06/2009 12:47 PM  
Thanks for your advice Mary!

I have one advisement to not state a reason (also Glen's example seems to be in agreement of not stating a reason), and another to state a few blatant violations.

Any other opinions would be very appreciated!

I am worried about the president playing games with a time and date (although if you read my earlier comments, I believe there are no official officer positions for our board). We are suppose to be having an open meeting very soon. Do you think it might be best to present the petition at our next meeting with the management company rep. present?
MaryA1


Posts:0


06/06/2009 3:24 PM  
Joe,

I've always thought it best to include a reason for the recall in the petition. As a member, I wouldn't sign a recall petition w/o knowing why the individual was being recalled. Putting it on the petition saves you from having to explain it over and over again at each door you knock on.

But, before you do anything, I took a quick look at the IL Condo Property Act -- 765 ILCS 605. Section 18 states what must be in the bylaws: (a)(4) states: the method of removal from office of the members of the board. So your bylaws should state what procedure is to be followed to recall a board member. Read this and following the instructions exactly.
JoeB8
(Illinois)

Posts:48


06/08/2009 10:11 AM  
Thanks Mary, I was thinking of having reasons also.

WELL THE PLOT THICKENS...

The police showed up to my door today with a complaint that I threatened the President at our last meeting (3 months ago - the complaint was just filed - maybe they are reading this thread???). He stated I said "I wanna stomp you". A complete lie that is fatter than him. His little board witch buddy went along as a witness. The complaint stated something about other witnesses, but none would come forward. I have already spoken with three witnesses that were present at the meeting, and they are outraged from these false accusations, but not quite as outraged as me. The cops were actually snickering because they know darn well if someone threatened somebody, the person being threatened would not wait 3 months to file a complaint. I had to fill out a Freedom of Information sheet to get a copy of the complaint, and unfortunately that will take at least a week before I can get a copy. Our next board meeting is scheduled for this week.

I left a voice mail message for the officer to call me so I can find out what actions I can take to correct this crazy wrong. What would you do about these false charges?
JimP8
(Missouri)

Posts:5


07/17/2009 8:02 AM  
I have a petition example as we are going through this at this moment.

Attachment: 171721277171.doc
Attachment: 171721286554.doc

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