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Subject: "For Sale" signs
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Author Messages
PennyN1


Posts:0


09/04/2006 7:24 PM  
Our HOA Rules state in part..."An owner shall show no sign, advertisement..." However, when a resident decides to sell his/her house the realtor posts "For Sale" signs all over our development property. Do residents have the right to take them down?
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


09/05/2006 4:18 AM  
PennyN1,
I’m not 100% sure, if you can take them down or not. I’m aware of a lot of previous posts about this same topic, though. I would suggest looking in the search box in the right hand side of the page for information. I believe that the CC&Rs can not be enforced when it comes to for sale signs. I’ll continue looking, If I find further information. I will post it here for you. There maybe a restrictions as to where it is placed.

Our HOA will not allow you to have more than one at the entrance of the sub-division. For safety reasons and it looks ridiculous.

I would assume you will get the needed information from many of the members of HOATalk. They all have helped me tremendously throughout these past couple months.

Best of luck
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


09/05/2006 5:57 AM  
PennyN1,

The realtor is an agent of the owner, and subject to the same rules the owner is. Since your rule says no for sale signs, then it applies to the realtor as well.

IMO, it is not wise to remove the sign yourself, rather call management. It's one thing to police the neighborhood, it's another to perform the physical action to right the wrong.

Many HOA's develop policies that permit for sale signs in certain locations, of a certain look, and on certain days. This way the integrity of the community is less compromised by the "mushrooming" of for sale signs, An understandable concern.

Best of success!!
GeraldT1
NNJ
EdR
(Texas)

Posts:170


09/05/2006 7:50 AM  
Our CC&Rs specifically address "for sale" signs. They are actually the only signs allowed--and the dimensions are provided for them. So there are always realtor's signs in our assn. The only time I can remember there being only ONE sign out was when I bought my house 8 years ago--now a number of homes are for sale. HOWEVER, homeowners still place all kinds of signs (mostly spirit signs) in their yards and they become hostile when the subject even comes up about them being considered as a "sign". Even though the CCRs do not address it, campaign signs are supposed to be allowed through the State rules for 30 days before a campaign and removed immediately after an election. This is in TX. If a neighbor close by doesn't agree with your choice in our assn., the sign usually disappears before the election anyway--even from a flowerbed next to your house.
EdR
HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:906


09/05/2006 9:55 AM  
Ed - You should check your TX statues regarding political signs. I'm sure your pols have passed laws protecting THEIR signs just as they have here in AZ..."It is a class II misdemeanor to knowingly remove, alter, deface, or cover a political sign 45 days prior to election or 7 days after..." Arizona has also specifically added legislation to permit political signs in HOAs notwithstanding the HOAs documents forbidding them. They do limit the size and number however.
As far as For Sale signs: How is a home supposed to be marketed if no signs are allowed? That includes open house signs as well. This has been discussed previously here. Harold
GeraldT1


Posts:0


09/05/2006 10:25 AM  
HaroldS,

I agree with you regarding the marketability of a home and the limitation that may result from forbidding for sale or open house signs. My cc&r's prohibit for sale and open house signs. However, I believe they did so only because it would be a disadvantage to the developer as homes were originally being constructed because the cc&r's and by-laws permitted the developer to display the signs. Unfortunately, the other board members and community did not feel passionate enough to develop a new tasteful policy. There is a possible downside, one that was used to counter our existing policy on prohibiting signs. That is the bad perception it may give if there are many signs displayed in a community at any one time. To that I said baloney because we are a gated community and we could always restrict the amount of signs at the front entrance to one saying "homes for sale/open houses", but permit them on the inside so as to guide the owners where to go. At the end of the day, many owners are going to put up the signs anyway and accept the possible violation as part of the cost of selling.

GeraldT1
NNJ
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


09/05/2006 3:19 PM  
I think not allowing for sale signs is a mistake, how else are you going to market your home for sale? When I was looking we drove through neighborhoods and areas we liked and wrote down addresses and numbers on houses with signs. I think you do your neighborhood a disservice by hindring the ability to sell a home quickly, the longer it sets the lower the price.

I do think it is advantageous to limit numbers, size, etc.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


09/05/2006 3:29 PM  
BradP,

In a gated community however it is difficult if not impossible to statistically correlate signage to a homes quick sale. The justification and argument for signs in a gated community needs to be more strategic and focus on the benefit of permitting signs because it guides owners to their destination.

I'm all for the signage and consider the restriction to be an infringement upon an owner's right to sell, even in a gated community. But there's little that can be done if the rule says no signs and those that can amend it are unwilling to do so.

GeraldT1
NNJ
WilliamT
(Arizona)

Posts:489


09/05/2006 3:50 PM  
Posted By BradP on 09/05/2006 3:19 PM

I think not allowing for sale signs is a mistake, how else are you going to market your home for sale? When I was looking we drove through neighborhoods and areas we liked and wrote down addresses and numbers on houses with signs. I think you do your neighborhood a disservice by hindring the ability to sell a home quickly, the longer it sets the lower the price.

I do think it is advantageous to limit numbers, size, etc.


I completely agree that for sale signs should be allowed. It is unreasonable to not allow them. I found my home in a gated community because of a sign. I was the first one to see the sign after it went up and I bought it within a day.

If I were in a community that would not allow for sale signs and need to sell my home, I would ignore the rule and put a sign up. I would go through all of the appeal procedures, and then pay the fines and consider it a selling cost.

If the board were unreasonable about it, I would consider taking it to small claims court, because rules must be reasonable, or the courts are very likely to set them aside. This is an unreasonable rule because it does impact the ability of a homeowner to market their home.
PennyN1


Posts:0


09/05/2006 6:48 PM  
BUT..."For Sale" signs attract a variety of types of people you may not want coming into your home. The way to market your home is thru a reputable realtor who is more able to screen potential buyers. A friend of mine had her home up for sale; several people came to see it; while one was having the homeowner take her on a tour, the other was taking several small pieces of Lenox china from my friend's collection, most small enough to put into a pocket or large purse.
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2803


09/05/2006 7:10 PM  
You have to enforce or change your Codes: If they say "no signs", then you must enforce no signs. If people want to change that rule, then let them vote a change into the CC&R's.

Our codes actually address for sale signs, and allow them. If yours don't, then you must enforce the codes as written, until they are changed.
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


09/05/2006 7:32 PM  
Penny:

If you choose to sell your home by yourself, yes that is a risk you take, but at the same time those people could steal with a reputable realtor there. Even if you have a realtor you should be allowed to place a sign in your yard with the realtor company on it and phone number. I have bought two homes in my time (hopefully have a lot longer to go), one was found via the internet because we were changing cities, another was found by driving through neighborhoods we liked. But, I do agree with Brian, if it is a rule enforce it, otherwise get rid of the rule.
WilliamT
(Arizona)

Posts:489


09/05/2006 7:37 PM  
Posted By PennyN1 on 09/05/2006 6:48 PM

BUT..."For Sale" signs attract a variety of types of people you may not want coming into your home. The way to market your home is thru a reputable realtor who is more able to screen potential buyers. A friend of mine had her home up for sale; several people came to see it; while one was having the homeowner take her on a tour, the other was taking several small pieces of Lenox china from my friend's collection, most small enough to put into a pocket or large purse.



The advice was that a home owner who wants to sell their home should be able to use every marketing tool available to them, and signs is an important tool. If someone opts to allow strangers in their home without a realtor, that's their choice.

EdR
(Texas)

Posts:170


09/06/2006 11:01 AM  
Harold:
Our CCRs DO allow "for sale" (Realtor's) signs in and the dimenions of the size of the sign are in the CCRs. I couldn't tell if you understood that they ARE allowed, but are the ONLY signs allowed. I have seen "For Sale by Owner" signs and they apparently are allowed also. I agree it's the best/easiest way to sell a home and should be allowed. I drove around looking for them when I was buying.
EdR
JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:288


09/06/2006 12:01 PM  
Our docs strictly forbid lawn for sale signs so on our website we have a section for homes for sale. Our docs allow signs in the corner of a front window of a home. In our community we call the realtor who puts in a sign and give them 24 hrs to remove them. We do not fol around as it slows down the lawn maintenance co and then they want a raise period. We are not in business as a HOA to help people sell their houses. We are in business to increase the value of our homes and have been very successfull in doing that. Our homes sold new for 44K to 90k they are presently selling for $275,000 dollars each. I will not as the senior BOD member allow that rule to be changed. Its my job to inspect homes prior to issueing estoppels and signs are way down my list of importance. Remeber a HOA is for the entire membership not the quick house flippers. PERIOD

If you dont read and accept our rules dont move in that is our attitude period
PennyN1


Posts:0


09/06/2006 3:18 PM  
Thank you for replying to my problem with "For Sale" signs; I am in complete agreement with you. Over this past weekend we had 3 different realtors' signs all over our community. The traffic it brought in was awful and they parked all over our lawns. I don't see any good coming from these signs. A good realtor does not need them and a ethical realtor does not do anything to harm the common areas.
PennyN1


Posts:0


09/06/2006 3:18 PM  
Thank you for replying to my problem with "For Sale" signs; I am in complete agreement with you. Over this past weekend we had 3 different realtors' signs all over our community. The traffic it brought in was awful and they parked all over our lawns. I don't see any good coming from these signs. A good realtor does not need them and a ethical realtor does not do anything to harm the common areas.
MistiH
(Texas)

Posts:52


09/07/2006 4:00 AM  
My HOA allows signs of a very specified type. There are only 2 companies in the area that makes them. So, we have the signs and they actually look very nice, blending in w/ the theme of the neighborhood. Sellers still complain... which makes no sense to me as the realtors purchase/ supply the signs.

When a large group of people live in proximity, it's just natural to have diverse opinions.

Loving Life in Texas!
Misti
JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


09/07/2006 6:22 AM  
Our neighborhood allows one 'for sale' sign in a yard not to exceed a specific size. Signs are not allowed on the common area property at the entrance, they must be across the road.

Personally, I don't have a problem with a 'for sale' sign in a yard. I would think the board would want to be more 'friendly' when it comes to helping the homeowners, old and new. I would want the neighborhood to be a happy place to live and not appear to be some controlling and negative environment in which to live. Yes, we agree to abide by rules when we buy into a covenanted neighborhood but I would think it important to create and maintain a desirable place to live, thus maintaining or increasing the home values.

When it comes time for you to sell your home, I am wondering if you will feel the same about the signs? On another note, we had someone who hadn't paid their dues in 4-5 years and once we filed a lawsuit, the 'for sale' sign went up. The house sold, we collected from the liens, and we are very happy to see them go. Hopefully the new owners will be better residents in the community.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


09/07/2006 10:03 AM  
PennyN1,

The rules you develop in your community are unique. JohnM3 is technically correct, if the rule is no signs, enforcement, and adherance is necessary, the board whether they like it or not, must enforce.

As you can see from the posts, there are benefits to for sale signs in other communities. Clearly the signs increase traffic, perhaps that is the common ground of your situation and other communities. Unfortunately in your community, there was an occurrence where the "traffic" was less than desireable.

However, the signs did not say "Vagrants Welcome".

I believe prohibiting for sale signs, open house, and for sale by owner signs is unreasonable, as they are marketing and directional tools. I believe an association and the residents owe it to themselves to develop a reasonable display policy of some kind because it's in everyone's best interests to have homes that sell, rather than sit on the market.

I do not believe that breaking the rule is correct, and think that change needs to come from the community first, not the board members.

Best of success!!
GeraldT1
NNJ
JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:288


09/07/2006 3:05 PM  
Gerald T Question what is more important ? The people living there or the people leaveing there period. If its in your docs you enforce it period. The members have no say so unless they repeat they are willing to change them I repeat they doo the signs the door to door the announcements the leg work all the work period. I know better after 18 years on a board I know a heck of a lot about what people are willing to do and what they say. easiest way to stop a complainer who dont like the rules is fine you are now a bod aux member your first project is get the paperwork accomplished for the rule changes you want now you go door to door to get 51 percent to agree with you n writing mailed to the assoc. Then you go door to door to get them all signed and mailed back to the MC and we will gladly do what ever you want.

You will never see them again. I know I have done this to 12 different people that wanted a better sign policy than what we got . 18 years and our docs have never been changed and most likely never will.

JM
TFL
JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:288


09/07/2006 3:11 PM  
The reason our docs stand is the developer put in a kicker that 75 percent of the members must agree.

Year 2 we I and another board member went door to door and I got the same statement from everyone their answer was no capital n-o why simple everyone knew if we changed the docs we would be able to scrap the paragraph that states the BOD can only increase the dues 10 percent per month period. Our docs read even for special assessments we have to get 90 percent of the members to agree 15 percent of our commmunity is renters we loose before we start.
I am not being ridiculois but real thats how people think......
GeraldT1


Posts:0


09/07/2006 3:53 PM  
JohnM3,

To answer your question, both the people living, and the people leaving are important. Both are an integral component of a communities stability. Piss off either with unreasonable rules, and it hurts the association. Failure to realize this devalues property.

Not sure why you need to reiterate "if it's in your docs you enforce it period". Because that is basically what everyone is saying, including myself. My feeling that prohibiting the signs is irrelevant to the collective decision of a community to say yeah or neah to the rule.

As for going door to door, I have first hand experience in achieveing success to the tune of the developer kicking in 80 trees not originally on plan to benefit 64% of our townhouse units. Some perceived me as a "complainer", but according to the Board of Realtors a tree can add $1,000.00 to $10,000.00 to the value of a home. Bottom line, my "complaint" turned into an $80,000.00 addition, according to statistics.

Perhaps I am the rarity, but I didn't do it alone in my community, so your experience is not the rule, rather an exception as well. Though I will give you one for owner apathy. : )

Here's my post again, so you can re-read what I've stated.

"PennyN1,

The rules you develop in your community are unique. JohnM3 is technically correct, if the rule is no signs, enforcement, and adherance is necessary, the board whether they like it or not, must enforce.

As you can see from the posts, there are benefits to for sale signs in other communities. Clearly the signs increase traffic, perhaps that is the common ground of your situation and other communities. Unfortunately in your community, there was an occurrence where the "traffic" was less than desireable.

However, the signs did not say "Vagrants Welcome".

I believe prohibiting for sale signs, open house, and for sale by owner signs is unreasonable, as they are marketing and directional tools. I believe an association and the residents owe it to themselves to develop a reasonable display policy of some kind because it's in everyone's best interests to have homes that sell, rather than sit on the market.

I do not believe that breaking the rule is correct, and think that change needs to come from the community first, not the board members."

Hope this clairifies my statements for you JohnM3.

GeraldT1
NNJ
AnnieS1
(Florida)

Posts:4


10/31/2006 8:48 AM  
HELP!
I live in Fl. I'm wondering if you know anything
about CC&R's that state "A sign cannot be displayed without approval of the board"
I put a "for sale sign" in my window, then of course I got the letter of "Non-compliance"
I did not "Comply" by taking it down.I asked if I could have my sign approved and they(The Board) stated that they did not want to set a "precidence" in the community. So of course I still have my sign in my window. Now I have a letter saying the fine committee "fined" me the maximum allowed by the Fl. statue and it will be on my "next assesment"
My question is this - can they really uphold in court
this "Rule"? A lot of us "residents" have been trying to sell our homes but the developer & President of this community is making it difficult because of his "New"
homes for sale. I have heard from a neighbor who used to live in PGA Village in Fl. that she herself went through this same issue in that community, She seems to think that
they (The Board) cannot uphold this rule by law because of a federal case somewhere about altering our lifestyle or something of that nature.
Does anyone reading this have any info on this matter? I don't want to pay the fines, but I also don't want a lein on my house when I am trying to sell it.
any info or feedback will be grateful! Thanks so much.
Annie
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2803


10/31/2006 9:53 AM  
I do not know Florida's laws, but in general, you won't win with any type of "altering of lifestyle" suit. The courts will generally rule that you agreed to the standards of the HOA when you purchased, you can't suddenly not agree with them anymore.

Unless there is a specific Florida law that allows a for sale sign, I am betting you will lose any suit against the HOA if the CC&R's forbid any signs, then your "for sale" sign is a violation.

SamualJ
(Kansas)

Posts:1


10/31/2006 2:27 PM  
I do not think that any court would allow some one person
in an HOA to dictate what residents can and can not do to their private property. These things called "CC&R's" are
contracts that are not really worth the paper they are written on. We are seeing more and more law suits being
won by the residents because the courts & judges are
not willing to allow this "HOA" to be a dictator.
So, having said that, go get yourself an attorney, odds are with a little bit of time and money, you will slam dunk this.
Good Luck. Sam
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2803


10/31/2006 2:44 PM  
Samual, it is ironic that you say you don't think the courts would allow one person in an HOA to dictate what can and cannot be done, however, in the same paragraph, you extort the person to go to court and force the HOA to do what they (one person) wants done.

People bought into that HOA understanding the rules that said "NO SIGNS"... and then, along comes one person who wants to be different, who wants to dictate to everyone else that they don't have to follow the rules. If that's not a case of one person dictating the rules to everyone else...

If everyone in the HOA wants to allow signs, they can indeed do that. they meet, make a proposal, and vote. Voila, it's done! the will of the people.

However, when one person who doesn't like the will of the people heads to court to get a mandated change, it is no longer the will of the people... it's the will of the one person and a judge.

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:288


10/31/2006 2:57 PM  
No but the BOD if its in your docs they or there registered contracted Property Management will. If they dont they are letting themselves wide open for suits titled "SELECTIVE CODE ENFORCEMENT"
JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:288


10/31/2006 3:00 PM  
Dear Brad: Then do not live in a HOA community! Very simple. You sign you obey case closed!
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:4862


10/31/2006 4:22 PM  
Posted By SamualJ on 10/31/2006 2:27 PM
I do not think that any court would allow some one person in an HOA to dictate what residents can and can not do to their private property. These things called "CC&R's" are contracts that are not really worth the paper they are written on. We are seeing more and more law suits being won by the residents because the courts & judges are not willing to allow this "HOA" to be a dictator.
So, having said that, go get yourself an attorney, odds are with a little bit of time and money, you will slam dunk this.
Good Luck. Sam

Sam, you are mistaken. First no one person in the HOA is dictating the Declaration of CC&Rs is dictating and all owners have agreed (Covenant) to comply. The CC&Rs are extremely powerful. Law suits are won by residnts when the HOA does not provided due process. Don't hire an attorney unless you want to pay a lot more money because you don't want to obey what you agreed to.

AnnieS1
(Florida)

Posts:4


10/31/2006 6:53 PM  
Hello to all of you reading this.

Below is the reply from the (Associations) Assistant General Manager.
I had asked her what the criteria was for approval of a sign. I did send a letter asking for approval of my sign, however they (BOD)did
not EVER respond, they went ahead and had the fine committee meeting and decided to fine me.
This HOA Board of Directors were "appointed" by the President. We were never given the option to vote these people in. I've been here 8 years and it's always been this way. He(The president&Developer) just appointed his son on the board due to an open seat because of a member resigning.
HE(the president) is a tyrant to work with so said the man who resigned.
I am a little confused on how this president can get away with all this shady stuff he is doing.

Here is the response from the Asst. General Manager.

"The Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions state that except as may be required by legal proceedings, or as otherwise permitted by the Association, no sign, displayed or erected upon any Lot, yard, or other Common Area within the Property, or from any window or tree, unless express prior written approval of the size, shape, content and location has been obtained from the DRB, which approval may be withheld in its discretion. The Design Review Board has not to my knowledge ever approved a sign as it has not wished to set a precedent which may open the door for other signs. I would suggest you apply for the size, shape, content and location of the sign you wish to post so that the
Design Review Board may determine if they wish to set a new precedent."
AnnieS1
(Florida)

Posts:4


10/31/2006 7:10 PM  
Roger,
What do you mean?
(Law suits are won by residnts when the HOA does not provide due process.)

My HOA did not reply to my letter asking for "approval of my sign, shape, size and content."
In your opinion, do you think I should just pay my fine, take the sign out of my window and let it end?
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:4862


10/31/2006 7:33 PM  
Annie,
1. Did you apply for approval prior to putting the sign in the window?
2. If you did and it was not approved did the Architectural Committee advise why it was not approved?
3. Has the Committee provided the standards which they will approve to all owners?
4. Were you provided the opportunity for a Hearing before being fined? These are some examples of what I mean by due process.

I might request a Hearing prior to paying the fine if 2, 3, and/or 4 give a good basis for not paying. Otherwise I would pay and forget about it.
AnnieS1
(Florida)

Posts:4


10/31/2006 8:10 PM  
1. Did you apply for approval prior to putting the sign in the window? No, after the sign was there I stated that our CC&R's give the board the option. That's when she emailed
me saying "If you would like to apply for approval, submit you letter in writing. (Did That) at that time.
2. If you did and it was not approved did the Architectural Committee advise why it was not approved? No, they did not respond.
3. Has the Committee provided the standards which they will approve to all owners? No. I asked what the criteria was for approval, that's when I received the email that I posted, where she stated about the board not wanting to set a precedent.
4. Were you provided the opportunity for a Hearing before being fined? They called a BOD meeting to discuss "me" being in "non-compliance" which I was not notified of until the day before (from a neighbor) I was not able to attend on such short notice. Then after that, they called
an "Fine Committee/Appeals meeting" which they notified me of in writing, but again... I was not able to attend.
Then I got the letter, saying that I was fined.
All I want to do is sell my house and get out of this
Horrible community. I should give you the blog website to read about this "Tyrant" who calls himself "The Man".




RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:4862


11/01/2006 7:05 AM  
Annie, they gave you the opportunity for a Hearing and you chose not to attend so pay the fine. Good luck on selling your property.
RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901


11/02/2006 1:02 PM  
Posted By SamualJ on 10/31/2006 2:27 PM

............... These things called "CC&R's" are contracts that are not really worth the paper they are written on. ..................


Not so, they are recorded with the deed to the property and except where they conflict with the law, they are fully enforcable.

Don't like it? Don't buy into a community with CC&Rs.

Ron
SC
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


11/03/2006 6:21 AM  
JohnM3
Posts:89
Posted:10/31/2006 4:59 PM Quote Reply
Dear Brad: Then do not live in a HOA community! Very simple. You sign you obey case closed!


John:

I am not understanding your response? I choose to live in an HOA because I like it. However, our HOA does not forbid you from having for sale signs in your yard. As many have said on here before rules need to be reasonable and in my opinion not allowing someone to place a for sale sign in their yard when they sell is not reasonable. I am sure others feel differently, but that is why I chose to live where I could have one.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:4862


11/03/2006 7:13 AM  
Brad, I believe John was referring to the Declaration of CC&Rs not the Rules. Comments on Rules and Regulations that "rules need to be reasonable" do not apply where the owner has agreed to comply with the CC&Rs. The buyer didn't agree to only comply with those they thought were reasonable.
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


11/03/2006 9:13 AM  
Roger:

I agree with you...that is why I bought where we can place signs. We all have opinions, I just don't agree with CC&R's or rules that don't allow For Sale Signs.
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


11/04/2006 1:45 AM  
PennyN1 & AnnieS1,

I have just re-read all previously posted responses to your original post. I too can see both sides to this rule.
If I were interested in selling my home, not being able to place a “for sale sign” would hinder the ability to sell my home, although if you use a reputable realtor, the need to display a sign in a yard isn’t needed.IMO (If the realtor is doing their job).


“If” and only “if” the HO decides to sell the house themselves (which I personally wouldn’t recommend). Yes, this will save a considerable amount of money but with “selling by owner” comes the saying “seller beware” you will tend to get increased traffic, and all the risks of left, and vandalism when selling your home without a realtor, will come into play but, it should be your choice. As posted earlier “If someone opts to allow strangers in their home without a realtor, that's their choice.” previously posted by WilliamT
I feel people will tend to drive through communities (not gated) in search of houses for sale, regardless of signs or no signs! They don’t know that the community may or may not allow “for sale” signs, so you will get some increase in traffic regardless of the HOA allowing or not allowing such signs to be posted.
As you previously post informing you of how they came to purchasing their homes, is great. It was definitely an incredibly fortunate business opportunity for them. I have just one question to these previous “posters”. Were these communities gated? I would assume not, which means you drove through these neighborhoods at your own risk. Without the signs you may not have ever known about the house being for sale so in that aspect yes having the “for sale” signs displayed helped you for sure. I do not doubt that one bit.

I hope you both have had success in selling your homes. I can only hope the information you received from this discussion board has helped you sell your home.

Sorry for the long response.
Best of luck
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:906


11/06/2006 9:21 AM  
Charles - and all others who cannot put a for sale sign in your HOA yard: Contact the state Realty board or maybe a state legistator who is also a Realtor and request that the Realtors lobby your state legislature to adopt a bill allowing for sale signs in HOAs. Realtors obviously have a vested interest in putting for sale signs on property they have listed for sale. It not only identifies that this home is for sale, but also puts the Realtor's name out there for all to see. A state law would then override any HOA statue. The legislators in our state saw fit to establish a bill allowing THEIR political signs be placed in HOAs. I would think a simple for sale sign would not be any more distracting or ugly. Harold
RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901


11/06/2006 9:33 AM  
Posted By HaroldS on 11/06/2006 9:21 AM

Charles - and all others who cannot put a for sale sign in your HOA yard: Contact the state Realty board or maybe a state legistator who is also a Realtor and request that the Realtors lobby your state legislature to adopt a bill allowing for sale signs in HOAs................ A state law would then override any HOA statue. .............


Why not lobby the state legislature to override any restriction you don't agree with? Between you and your neighbors, you could eventually get rid of all the CC&Rs.

Of course, your neighborhood will deteriorate and property values and quality of life will go down, but at least you'll get your way.

or -

READ AND UNDERSTAND THE CC&RS BEFORE YOU PURCHASE THE PROPERTY !


Ron
SC
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


11/06/2006 9:36 AM  
HaroldS,

That is some great advice. That is such a true comparison between political signs and for sale signs. I’ll look into it when the time comes for me to sell. Thanks again,

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


11/06/2006 1:30 PM  
RonaldW,

I believe the appropriate arena to change the rule is amongst the residents by a quorum % petition to the Board President to hold a special meeting to amend. I do not believe it's appropriate to lobby the legislature as the attention will decrease property values by bad press.

I also believe the restriction of for sale signs is an unreasonable rule if there is no alternative. Such as a pre-approved sign, for display on weekends only in a pre-approved location, or one pre-approved sign at the front entrance stating home(s) for sale and ballons then tied to the homes front planter etc.

I agree with you that owners should read and understand the cc&r's before purchase or at least respect what is necessary to accomplish change.

GeraldT1
NNJ
JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:288


11/06/2006 5:10 PM  
Are you part of a BOD of a Hoa?
Cause that is what this site is supposed to be!
HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:906


11/06/2006 5:11 PM  
Gerald wrote: "I do not believe it's appropriate to lobby the legislature as the attention will decrease property values by bad press." In other words we should keep these dirty little secrets to ourselves? LOL. You're right tho - if buyers hear or read about some of the really goofy restrictions in some HOAs (like no for sale signs) they might start looking elsewhere to buy. Harold
JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:288


11/06/2006 5:15 PM  
Noot only that do you folks understand something your talking about sueing yourselves?
Where do you think the money comes from for paying the lawyers? The man in the moon?
The members of the association pay for everything that goes on in a HOA except theift. Its funny everybody wants a lawyer until they understand who pays for the lawyers. The members period. Understand that before you waste so much time on a very trivial matter.
RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901


11/06/2006 5:28 PM  
Posted By HaroldS on 11/06/2006 5:11 PM
............... In other words we should keep these dirty little secrets to ourselves? LOL. You're right tho - if buyers hear or read about some of the really goofy restrictions in some HOAs (like no for sale signs) they might start looking elsewhere to buy. Harold


"Dirty little secrets"? "goofy restrictions"?

Read the CC&Rs before you buy the property. Don't buy if you cannot live with the CC&Rs.

Would you invest in a company without researching it first? Why would you invest several hundred thousand dollars in a property without researching it first?

Now stop and think; If the CC&Rs do not restrict signs, a homeowner could put up signs other than "for sale" signs. Advertising a business or profession, rooms for rent, even a sign protesting the HOA itself!

Again, check before you buy.


Ron
SC
GeraldT1


Posts:0


11/07/2006 7:19 AM  
Harold S,

I believe that all efforts should be made to resolve issues internally within the HOA of which I am a member of in my community.

GeraldT1
NNJ

GeraldT1


Posts:0


11/07/2006 7:32 AM  
RonaldW,

Restricting for sale signs is not the only way to prevent other than "for sale" signs.

How about permitting for sale signs but restricting any sign that advertises a business or profession, rooms for rent, etc.

Something I noted on page 1 of this debate topic is that IMO, I believe the restriction of for sale signs was written into my cc&r's to benefit the developer or builder during construction of homes. I do not believe the restriction was to "improve" our quality of life.

The developer does not want homes to be purchased and sold prior to the developer units being sold. If the constructed and purchased home is sold at a profit but less than the markup of the later phase home that is being constructed, that would hurt the developer sales. You could get the same or similar home for less. Permitting for sale signs during construction attracts prospective buyers to that particular unit.

GeraldT1
NNJ
RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901


11/07/2006 7:46 AM  
Posted By GeraldT1 on 11/07/2006 7:19 AM

Harold S,

I believe that all efforts should be made to resolve issues internally within the HOA of which I am a member of in my community.

GeraldT1
NNJ



Yes. And you'll have a much easier time of it if you ask permission before you put up the sign, build a deck or fence, etc. rather than asking after the fact.

It also helps if you don't have a history of violations.

Remember, the HOA board is made up of your neighbors. People just like you. Get to know them, get involved , and participate in the meetings, committees, etc. Things will go a lot smoother for you.


Ron
SC
GeraldT1


Posts:0


11/07/2006 8:32 AM  
RonaldW,

Not sure who you are addressing your post to. However if it's to me, you need to re-read my posts on this subject because I believe you have me confused with someone that would put up a for sale sign even though the cc&r says no. Perhaps one of the other posters, not me.

If your post is addressed to me, it's innapropriate.

GeraldT1
NNJ



RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:901


11/07/2006 1:43 PM  
Posted By GeraldT1 on 11/07/2006 8:32 AM

RonaldW,

Not sure who you are addressing your post to. However if it's to me, you need to re-read my posts on this subject because I believe you have me confused with someone that would put up a for sale sign even though the cc&r says no. Perhaps one of the other posters, not me.

If your post is addressed to me, it's innapropriate.

GeraldT1
NNJ





Nope, I am agreeing with you and just adding on to your post.


Ron
SC
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


11/09/2006 11:16 AM  
I agree wholeheartedly that if no signs are allowed you should follow the rule. That is one reason I looked for an HOA that allowed them. I may be the minority on this issue but I really do think a for sale sign in a yard is a valuable marketing tool. That is how I bought one of the two houses I have owned. People frequently drive neighborhoods just looking. I do agree that the initiative to change should be from the HOA, not your state legislator. As president of my hoa I try to bring up rules that I think are not reasonable and also listen to other ideas. Ultimately it is there decision.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


11/09/2006 11:24 AM  
BradP,

I'm in your minority as well and agree with your entire well written post.

GeraldT1
NNJ
BonnieC1
(Texas)

Posts:1


01/24/2008 3:44 PM  
Ed - what is your source on the Stste rules for TX?
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


01/24/2008 3:58 PM  
First, I'm really curious how GeraldT has 0 posts?

"GeraldT1


Posts:0"


Second, I find it hard to believe that any HOA would prohibit for sale signs. It's obvious from these posts they do, but it does appear to infringe on one's ability to sell their home.

Wouldn't an HOA WANT as fast a turnover as possible?

Just curious on both statements.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


01/24/2008 4:01 PM  
Michelle,
The date of the post from Gerals is 11/06 Don't know how this one showed up.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


01/24/2008 4:02 PM  


That is GERALD--typo from me
MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491


01/24/2008 7:55 PM  
Oh.

I didn't pay any attention to the dates!

Sorry!

Nevermind.
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