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SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
When we sent out the 2009 annual budget in December, we told homeowners of the increasing problem with delinquencies and that if things didn't improve quickly, the Board would have to make some hard spending decisions, such as reducing the swimming pool season or cancelling it altogether. Later, we published an article about this in our newsletter, suggesting homeowners let us know what they wanted on or before our April meeting. I didn't attend that meeting because I was working, but our property manager later told me the decision was to keep the pool closed (the costs of delinquencies, complying with the new federal law and several other pool repairs we need to do was all a bit much). And it's an old pool, built in 1972.

Now, I'm wondering if the Association should consider keeping the pool altogether - and if we were to close it up what that would do to our property values, which are probably already in the tank, given delinquencies, too many renters and the generally manure pile that is today's real estate market. We are a community of townhomes and the pool is next to our community building - this is pretty much at as far as amenities go. Of course, something this major would require a homeowner vote.

Has anyone else faced this problem? If so, how did you approach it (e.g. consult with local realators to see how much of a drop there may be)? If you did eliminate the pool or another major amenity, did you replace it with something else? And how have things turned out since then?

As always, many thanks for your comments and suggestions.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Sheila - How many homes are in your community?

Developers in the 70's and 80's tried to put a pool in every community (even small communities) and it's really silly because unless you have at least 1000 homes in a community, this expenditure and the liability is too great. I know that the minute that I would suggest closing the pool, everyone on this site would come back and say that I'm crazy and that it's all about resales and that it's important to have a pool.

Our pool is a small pool in a "Cross" pattern, so it's not condusive to swimming and of course there is no diving board. The pool contract for maintenance and lifeguards and other related expenses is almost $40,000 (which is a huge part of our budget) and every year it seems that there is some major thingmajig that is broken and it always costs thousands to fix it. With around 400 homes in the community, this is a very large expenditure considering that just a few people use it. It would be nice to have something in it's place that might have a larger appeal providing that it's cheaper to maintain.

Whenever I look for another home, I would be never again purchase a home in a community with a pool (eve). It's just too costly to maintain. It's like having an old Wood boat.

We were also considering closing our pool in order to beef up our reserves, but they have opted for large increses instead.

If you're sucessful in turning you pool into a skating rink or a fish pond, or Golsfish pond or if you're able to get rid of it, let me know how you did it.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Thanks for the comments - we have 156 units.

Somehow, I suspect if we didn't have a pool, that might be ok with the majority of homeowners - provided the money was used to improve something else in the community. Besides the upkeep, the other problem we've had is behavior - the pool area is surrounded by a chain link fence (that people have jumped over and now it's leaning in spots) and last fall, someone used the pool cover (it's an in ground pool) as a trampoline - so in addition to complying with the federal law, we'll also need another $1500 or so for a new cover. There's also the matter of leaks (somewhere) and the surrounding sidewalk is in desperate need of repair. I'm thinking the area's become a gigantic money pit.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
I have been to this movie - The overnight skinny dippers, the vandalism that occurs overnight etc. Every year it's something different that has froze from being impropery winterized, pumps, pipes, filters, you name it. Then it's several thousand for the coping and 14,000 for redoing the white coat, and on and on. Frankly, I don't see how you all can afford a pool with 156 units. This must be an unguarded (swim at your own risk pool) . Is it?
PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257
Posted:
SheliaH,

We have a discussion every year or two - should we fill in the pool (most residents have their own pool)or should we demolish the tennis courts. Neither facility gets much use.

It seems to me that the Board would not (and should not) have the authority to dispose of any facility. People bought here knowing that we had a pool and tennis. I don't think we could legally eliminate either facility.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
PeterB1, that's what I said this would require a homeowner vote - a decision like this should never be left to any Board.

I don't know if we've had problems with skinny dippers (it's possible, since we DO have the occassional trespasser. And yes, it's a swim at your own risk pool - because of the size of our pool, we aren't required to have a lifeguard. Our pool monitor can swim, but he's basically there to check pool passes and keep some semblence of order.

This is an issue I'm just kicking around right now - I know a few people have brought up the idea since I moved here, but it's generally been shot down because of the property value issue and because there's a concern over what the kids might do if they lose another place to play (some of the more vicious ones, along with a few vandals destroyed the playground equipment a few years ago.)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
I agree with you Sheila - You might have to get the homeowners to all vote on this issue in order to change this, but it's doable. Like you, I just have wondered if any other HOA has not only considered this, but did in fact follow through and filled in the pool.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Easy. Put it to a homeowner vote. It can be solved by 2 questions.

1. Increase dues by $80 month per homeowner to keep pool open. YES/NO
2. Vote to close pool? YES/NO
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Peter,
On the issue of amenities, a lawyer who was hired to address this very issue in my rental HOA, stated that because it is classified as an amenity, there must be 100% approval from the owners to remove whatever the amenity is (pool, tennis court, whatever) The theory is that people bought into the community because of the amenity.

Now I wholeheartidly dissagree with him. I had my own pool so who cares about a community pool. What if i am too old to play tennis? Who cares about the tennis courts and so on. So I would suggest to the O.P to just ask an expert in your commuity, like your HOA attorney if you have one.

I like Kirks idea, give them 2 choices. Increase in dues to support the pool or removal of it. Getting 100% seems tough to obtain if you ask me.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Sorry!! It was Steves idea for the 2 choices.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I just thought of a third option - rip out this old pool and replace it with a new one, complete with the equipment needed to comply with the federal pool safety law and perhaps a few "green" bells and whistles that can conserve water and energy in heating the thing. Of course, this would be several thousand dollars (which we don't have) and would require a special assessment (and we know how popular THOSE are).

We amended our bylaws some years ago that I believe would require a 75% approval for something like this - I'll have to check. Thanks to the delinquencies, however, the actual number eligible to vote would be considerably smaller, but if we got 75% of that, ok.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I just thought of a third option - rip out this old pool and replace it with a new one, complete with the equipment needed to comply with the federal pool safety law and perhaps a few "green" bells and whistles that can conserve water and energy in heating the thing. Of course, this would be several thousand dollars (which we don't have) and would require a special assessment (and we know how popular THOSE are).

We amended our bylaws some years ago that I believe would require a 75% approval for something like this - I'll have to check. Thanks to the delinquencies, however, the actual number eligible to vote would be considerably smaller, but if we got 75% of that, ok.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Whoops, pushed the "submit" button one too many times...

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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