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StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/29/2010 9:13 AM
Please keep in mind with the Internet use, we are not talking about all Americans, all American neighborhoods, all social-economic categories, but we are talking about residents in an HOA and if you live in an HOA and the geographic area doesn't have Internet services then you might be living in an HOA in Siberia. Also, when in an HOA with Internet service, the transition plan to the Internet/web site should include servicing those without access in their home such as a general use pc/wireless access in the clubhouse or product a minimal amount of paper based services. Let's not look at the exception but the rule and address exceptions as they come along

NoeW
(Alaska)

Posts:25

12/29/2010 9:13 AM
What does postage cost to 7000 members? $0.44 x 7000= $3080 OUCH!

RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12

12/29/2010 9:22 AM
Ah Stan how I wish you could talk to our Communications Committee, right NormanM. They took charge of our web site and it's message board. Now the web site has been redesigned and it quite good but the message board has been taken down because they didn't like the fact that we were having un-censored discussion. The saddest part is that many people in the community used that message board to simply exchange information such as; "who is a good dog groomer", where can I get my glasses repaired" etc. I run a forum for the community and created a special section for posting of these things now but since it is "private" and not owned by the association they will not allow me to purchase advertising in OUR community magazine to let the 7,000 HOMES KNOW THAT MY SITE IS THERE. I do have many readers and it is there as a community service but my posters are free to say what they wish and many are not complimentary to the board. Suffice to say, the board would love the site to vanish.

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3806

12/29/2010 9:22 AM
This thread is all over the place. I would propose that it be sorted out into their own topics Since I am interested in the statements Sam made, I will be starting a new topic thread for that. It can be found here: http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/105047/view/topic/Default.aspx

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3806

12/29/2010 9:47 AM
Rana, If NV doesn't have a law similar to Virginia's, you might want to propose to your State representative to support a bill to create that requirement. I also believe it would fall into line with your current laws we previously discussed about having opposing views. The VA law I am talking about states: 55-510.2. Distribution of information by members. The board of directors shall establish a reasonable, effective, and free method, appropriate to the size and nature of the association, for lot owners to communicate among themselves and with the board of directors regarding any matter concerning the association. (2001, c. 715.) Tim

RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12

12/29/2010 10:00 AM
Great idea Tim, thank you. I will be in Carson City to speak to anyone who will hear me at the opening of the session 2011 and will try that adding "unimpeaded/uncensored". The biggest problem we have is censorship. I wish I knew what the Board is so afraid of. I have said so often that open communications can solve so many issues without rancor yet the last three Boards we have had just refuse, under the direction of THIER attorney that we pay for, to have open conversation. They just don't seem to understand that when you keep slamming a door in someone's face all you do is make them very, very angry. It will never solve a problem. Sitting down and talking over the issue WILL solve the problem if done so calmly and with kindness and rationale.

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/29/2010 3:54 PM
Ok, a reality check to those who offered a list of how HOA's are open and democratic: Open Board meetings - anyone may attend, Board members can shut off comments and bully less than agressive residents, your issues sidestepped and putoff Meetings are announced on our website and in our newsletter Yes we know when the meetings occur, it is what happens at the meetings Contact a Board member by e-mail - You can write all the emails and letters you wish but whether you get a response is a different story and the norm, of course a tactic of a dysfunctional Board member is to say they never received it E-mail addresses are posted on our website, in our newsletter and on mailings ditto to prior comment Contact a Board member by telephone - ditto to prior comment and try to get a straight answer to a question, and getting a return call, huh Telephone numbers are published in our newsletter ditto Contact a Board member by U.S. Mail - ditto and if these means of contacting and getting responses works so well why do so many complain about non-available Board members Mailing address is on every mailing, in our newsletter, and on our website Ditto Contact a Board member in person - we all live in the community The whole question is not even as much contact but someone to listen and not just hear Although specific addresses are not published in our documents - they can be Repeat General Membership Meetings - Open to all, getting repetitive Meetings are announced on our website, in mailings, in our newsletter and on entrance signs. said this before Using Website - We have an open forum section This is a great tool for residents but ours is censored and as mentioned on this site I am not alone I applaud this tool and have seen it work for the residents Forums are mentioned in newsletters, clicked from our website, and can be googled, binged, yahoo - any search engine. repeated, same as above Instituted directed vs. general proxies - This way the members who can not attend a general meeting can direct the board how to cast a vote for them (vs. just giving the board an opportunity to vote how the board wants). Proxies are accepted via mail, in person and by e-mail. Additionally, on issues we believe are a hot topic for the community we do mailings with self addressed stamped return envelopes. Could be a good manner to gain resident involvement but is complex and may require a change in the by laws which is a different topic

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/29/2010 3:57 PM
In Colorado, the guidelines encourage use of multiple media for disseminating information and that includes the Internet/web site, the term notification and how to complete is a very flexible issue, our HOA does provide notification of meetings, for example, on a sign by the gate, on the web, and in the newsletter

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/29/2010 4:04 PM
Just a quick comment to our Nevada victims, I've tried to get changes to our State of Colorado HOA laws/bills and basically forget about it: the real estate industry and developers will not put anything into law that involves enforcement and penalities. Question, your Nevada so called law, does it state what happens to a Board if they don't comply with a specific requirement? Does it say how to file a complaint that will be pursued and by who: normally you can file an informational complaint and their it ends unless you fund a Court action. Again, if you are Colorado your your by-laws, State laws/bills are empty and mostly unenforceable unless you have the financial means to put together a great case with lawyers and can sustain the loss.

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/29/2010 4:24 PM
RanaG, Your comments are based on reality and experience and some offer a glowing report on what every HOA Board is suppose to be and it is to communicate and act like your comments are false because the ideal world doesn't match reality. There is a reason HOA's get a bad name: they layout all this democratic, feel-good, accountability environment but when people move in they find abusive and sometimes corrupt Boards and then find out their by laws and State laws are empty. These ugly people who tell those who want accountability to "love it or leave it", just move out if you will, are the problem and don't believe differently. I find most activist not goof balls simply arguing about the color of fence so try to brush off the hate. I've been through it and it is not nice but in the end facts work in discussions but maybe not in getting change. The key to change in an HOA is resident involvement and education and then they can make a decision and term limits that will rid your Board of at least the current arrogance and open up an opportunity for somebody new. Rana the personality of most long serving Board members is that of a bully, someone who finds their identify via the Board, and someone who places self importance upon themself. I would not say "all" Board members are like this but there sure is no shortage of this type and especially in Boards with no term limits. This personality that makin es the person think no one can replace them is what makes dealing with Boards so difficult. So hang in there, don't move, and work the system patiently and don't give too much of a chance of changing the opinion of the enabling residents but new residents are the hope as well as those long term knowledgeable and unhappy residents.

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/29/2010 4:30 PM
Here is the comment that is missing, several mailing to a 7000 home community will be about $2800 postage plus paper costs, do that twice and you are near $6,000. So for all those stary eyed folks who say that is a great solution, well not everyone can just throw that money around. The reality, your HOA can send out two mailings or more to support their position and refute yours and the cost: the homeowners pay the cost and do you really think they care about how much of other's folks money they spend. You lose homeowner in the mailing war and can't win

RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12

12/29/2010 4:35 PM
We were not asking for a special mailing for our opinion, we requested permission to place our opinion to what (let us say) the President said in May in the June edition of the monthly magazine. In past years, during the election cycle, candidates were given 2 minutes to give a speech on air. It is no longer allowed in case they state "an opinion" just in case someone then wants to give their point of view. Keep in mind we own the station, it is on our property and airs nothing other than our own programming. Control-contol-control

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/29/2010 4:39 PM
We also, and I hope I was clear, have a web site but forget about an open discussion forum: the Board controls and that is that. We developed our own web site and we threatened with a law suit via the HOA lawyer: the basis for the law suit was empty but we ended up taking it down as the HOA would have spent our HOA dues to sue us. We now have two web sites we use to vent frustrations and are careful not to mention our dysfuntional HOA by name. www.dysfunctinalhoa.com and http://denver.yourhub.com/HighlandsRanch/Stories?userid=85311 I try not to post web sites in my postings but this may give you an ideas of the type of things we do that can't be posted on our web site. Yes, this whole thing of censorship works well for Boards. I must say I've seen HOA web sites that are not politically used to promote the Board and allow open discussion in a chat room type of area, the reason these HOA's allow this is the personality of the Board members who are not insecure and open to criticism and problemm resolution.

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/29/2010 4:45 PM
Rand, another form of cesorship my HOA uses is to preclude any panel discussion on issues when we hold a meet the candidates meeting, we had this planned last year and when everyone showed up they sent in the Board and said that no Q&A would be conducted in a panel setting, which was planned, with candidates, people were pissed to say the least, and this ended by residents having a cup of coffee and nothing got done, so this year they post in the newsletter that they will not have any panel disucussions and only a coffe and donuts meeting for people to visit with each other, they therefore dodge any open debate and questioning of candidates and issues, how sad

RanaG
(Nevada)

Posts:12

12/30/2010 10:13 AM
Stan, after reading your latest post please let me start your new year out with a hearty laugh. All of you living in HOA hell, this is for you too. Visit www.HOA1234.com and take a look at Jonathan Friedrich's HOA Hall of Shame. There is one president of an HOA that made the local news from Jonathan's latest segment who, when new people want to run for the board so they can replace him, find some obscure reason to fine them so that they will no longer be a "member in good standing". When he was interviewed by the local news the reporter asked if he was aware that he too had a pending fine from the real estate division of $5,000. He ...get ready... stuck his tongue out at the reporter and said, that is different, they don't know what they are talking about, I do. It all went down hill from there but it is very funny to watch..SAD BUT TRUE AND DAMN FUNNY. His residents have been trying to oust him for ages and cannot and he is the ONLY BOARD MEMBER.

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/30/2010 3:27 PM
Thanks for reference to a web site I think I can relate to. Let me refer a similar comment I received this week from a member of our Board after we audited the HOA and found disbursements with no invoices, disbursements greater in amount that cost of goods/services, income turned over to a private party who claimed to be doing some work for the past 8 years but there are no receipts and the work claimed was miles apart from the funds receives, accounting entries with lines drawn from on journal entry to the other (by our Treasurer with a doctorate in accounting), and free ad space given to a private party (all others pay) with no good explanation other than, get this and they are proud of it, "this is the way we conduct business, we trust each other and why anyone would challenge that trust is simply a trouble maker". I then asked them if they pay their TV cable bill, credit cards, or electric bill without an invoice or pay more than the amount due out of the kindness of their heart, they said "hell no, why would we do that", these people have no clue when operating in their tower of power and using other's (residents) money in such a reckless manner. thanks again and keep posting your findings and fun stories

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