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ScotJ
(Arizona)

Posts:19

01/21/2009 1:41 PM
Do non-Board members have any voting rights to decide an issue at a special meeting, other than removal of a director and replacement of that director?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

01/21/2009 3:11 PM
Scot, What kind of issue? Without this, we cannot give any opinions.

ScotJ
(Arizona)

Posts:19

01/21/2009 3:27 PM
Lower monthly assessment as an example.

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:1148

01/21/2009 3:37 PM
Scot, I thought special meetings were held for all owners. If so, why would they not have a vote?

MaryA1

Posts:0

01/21/2009 3:46 PM
Scot, Is this a special meeting of the members or of the board? Only board members can vote at board meetings and the members can only vote at meetings of the members. Most often the only meeting of the members is the annual meeting at which time elections take place and possibly ratification of the budget (depending upon the community docs). However, if there is a recall then a special meeting of the members is called to vote on the recall issue. Also a special meeting of the members can be called if their vote is required on a particular issue of if the board wants to gain input from the members on a particular project or issue. BTW, the members do not vote on changing the assessment unless that is specified in the community docs. In most instances this is something the board can decide on their own, but they must abide by state law. If you live in a planned community, state law says (Ref ARS 33-1803): "Unless limitations in the community documents would result in a lower limit for the assessment, the assn shall not impose a regular assessment tat is ore than 20% greater than the immediately preceding fiscal year's assessment w/o the approval of the majority of the members of the assn." If you live in a condo assn, there is no state imposed limitation on the increase unless specified in your community docs. (Ref ARS 33-1255)

ScotJ
(Arizona)

Posts:19

01/21/2009 4:38 PM
Thanks Mary, Special meetings are covered under Article III, Meetings of Members and again under Article IV, Board of Directors in our bylaws. Does the BOD have the final say in both instances?

MaryA1

Posts:0

01/22/2009 8:12 AM
Scot, Are you referring to the vote outcome or as to whether or not a special meeting should be held? 1) as to the vote outcome: the board would have final say only for a vote of the board. 2) as to whether or not to hold a special meeting: again, definitely if it's a special meeting of the board. Check your bylaws about special meetings of the members. Usually a special meeting can be called by the board Pres, a majority of the board members or a certain % of the members making a request of the board. Hope this answers your question!

ScotJ
(Arizona)

Posts:19

01/22/2009 9:42 AM
Example: At a BOD meeting, the board votes to raise the monthly assessment to $120 from $110. After this meeting, a resident secures the proper number of signatures via petition to call for a special meeting to reduce the fee back down. At the special meeting 80% of residents want the fee lowered. Are they allowed to vote to decide the matter or can the board leave the higher fee in place?

JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:967

01/22/2009 9:50 AM
Posted By ScotJ on 01/22/2009 9:42 AM Example: At a BOD meeting, the board votes to raise the monthly assessment to $120 from $110. After this meeting, a resident secures the proper number of signatures via petition to call for a special meeting to reduce the fee back down. At the special meeting 80% of residents want the fee lowered. Are they allowed to vote to decide the matter or can the board leave the higher fee in place? Under our docs, the only way this would work would be for a special meeting to be called, an Amendment to the ByLaws proposed (broad or narrow), and then passed by a majority of Membership. Other than that, the BOD has all the cards when it comes to finances. As it should.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671

01/22/2009 9:50 AM
Scot, Did the Board present the membership with a budget? According to many documents, the Board prepares a budget and then after giving the members a change to review it, the Board adpots that Budget. Unless your governing documents say otherwise, the Budget is normaly a Board function to prepare and vote on. Is the $120 an annual fee? That my friend is an unbelievably low amount for any association unless you have absolutely no association expenses, which would be most unusual.

ScotJ
(Arizona)

Posts:19

01/22/2009 12:20 PM
Thanks John and Donna, This was a hypothetical example.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202

01/22/2009 12:25 PM
Scot - Usually "Special Meetings" require a Notice to the Membership AND the purpose of the meeting is stated in the Notice. So your Notice should have read something like: Special Meeting to be held (date) for the purpose of voting on the following motion: (Motion stated) There, the motion can be voted on by the Members (including the Board, who are Members.) Some things come to mind, however: 1) The group wanted to lower the assessment. Does the Membership have that power? 2) Were all proper procedures followed calling for a conductin this vote?

MaryA1

Posts:0

01/22/2009 12:57 PM
Posted By ScotJ on 01/22/2009 9:42 AM Example: At a BOD meeting, the board votes to raise the monthly assessment to $120 from $110. After this meeting, a resident secures the proper number of signatures via petition to call for a special meeting to reduce the fee back down. At the special meeting 80% of residents want the fee lowered. Are they allowed to vote to decide the matter or can the board leave the higher fee in place? Scot, I know you stated this was a hypothetical case, but would like to comment. My first question would be, did the board call the special meeting? If not, that, in itself may be a violation of the bylaws. In many HOAs a special meeting may be called by the Pres, by a majority of the board or by a certain % of the membership petitioning the board. In most instances the members alone do not have the authority to call a special meeting. You may want to take a look at the open meeting law statute which outlines the requirements for a special meeting. This is one of the most important HOAs laws; every board member should be aware of the provisions contained in it. Actually all members should be aware of this law too. Condos - ARS 33-1248; planned communities - ARS 33-1804 If your community documents state the members must approve an increase in assessments, then a vote of the members would be required. However, in most instances the board alone can make this decision. If you live in a planned community in AZ, unless the community documents call for a lower amount, the members must vote to approve an increase that is 20% over the last assessment. . ." (Ref ARS33-1803) If you are in a condo assn, if there is a limit to the amount of the increase, it would be so stated in your community documents.

ScotJ
(Arizona)

Posts:19

01/22/2009 2:17 PM
Posted By MaryA1 on 01/22/2009 12:57 PM Posted By ScotJ on 01/22/2009 9:42 AM Example: At a BOD meeting, the board votes to raise the monthly assessment to $120 from $110. After this meeting, a resident secures the proper number of signatures via petition to call for a special meeting to reduce the fee back down. At the special meeting 80% of residents want the fee lowered. Are they allowed to vote to decide the matter or can the board leave the higher fee in place? Scot, I know you stated this was a hypothetical case, but would like to comment. My first question would be, did the board call the special meeting? If not, that, in itself may be a violation of the bylaws. In many HOAs a special meeting may be called by the Pres, by a majority of the board or by a certain % of the membership petitioning the board. In most instances the members alone do not have the authority to call a special meeting. You may want to take a look at the open meeting law statute which outlines the requirements for a special meeting. This is one of the most important HOAs laws; every board member should be aware of the provisions contained in it. Actually all members should be aware of this law too. Condos - ARS 33-1248; planned communities - ARS 33-1804 If your community documents state the members must approve an increase in assessments, then a vote of the members would be required. However, in most instances the board alone can make this decision. If you live in a planned community in AZ, unless the community documents call for a lower amount, the members must vote to approve an increase that is 20% over the last assessment. . ." (Ref ARS33-1803) If you are in a condo assn, if there is a limit to the amount of the increase, it would be so stated in your community documents. Hi Mary, Yes, in my example the board would have to call the special meeting after receiving the petition. I also used ARS33-1804 for reference. I was just curious under what circumstances at a special meeting, members have a right to vote, other than removal of a board member. Sounds like amending the bylaws might be the only other circumstance.

MaryA1

Posts:0

01/23/2009 6:19 AM
Scot, Electing board members, recalling a board member and amending the CCRs and any other gov docs that calls for a vote of the members, ratification of the budget and to approve an expenditure over a certain dollar amount are about the only issues I can think of. Of course your community documents will spell this all out. BTW, where are you located in AZ? I'm in Glendale at Arrowhead Ranch.

SamJ1
(Nevada)

Posts:11

01/23/2009 7:46 AM
Posted By ScotJ on 01/21/2009 1:41 PM Do non-Board members have any voting rights to decide an issue at a special meeting, other than removal of a director and replacement of that director? Hi! Newbie here........ But when I saw this post.........couldn't resist .... I have been trying to give our Community "Informational Voting Rights" via our Website and Password Protected Message Board for almost three years now. In this, the 21st Century, where even first graders are learning to use a computer, isn't it time to use the internet in ALL of its possibilities? Check out my site: http://www.hendersonriverlanding.com/index.html or just type: river1234.com in your Address Bar..........then go to our Message Board: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/samn3s/vpost?id=3231795 Your thoughts?...........Sam

ScotJ
(Arizona)

Posts:19

01/23/2009 8:28 AM
Posted By MaryA1 on 01/23/2009 6:19 AM Scot, Electing board members, recalling a board member and amending the CCRs and any other gov docs that calls for a vote of the members, ratification of the budget and to approve an expenditure over a certain dollar amount are about the only issues I can think of. Of course your community documents will spell this all out. BTW, where are you located in AZ? I'm in Glendale at Arrowhead Ranch. Queen Creek

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:4491

01/23/2009 9:37 AM
Posted By SamJ1 on 01/23/2009 7:46 AM Posted By ScotJ on 01/21/2009 1:41 PM Do non-Board members have any voting rights to decide an issue at a special meeting, other than removal of a director and replacement of that director? Hi! Newbie here........ But when I saw this post.........couldn't resist .... I have been trying to give our Community "Informational Voting Rights" via our Website and Password Protected Message Board for almost three years now. In this, the 21st Century, where even first graders are learning to use a computer, isn't it time to use the internet in ALL of its possibilities? Check out my site: http://www.hendersonriverlanding.com/index.html or just type: river1234.com in your Address Bar..........then go to our Message Board: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/samn3s/vpost?id=3231795 Your thoughts?...........Sam Sam, it's a nice goal, but whether even first graders "can" do it or not, many, many, many people have no interest (or exposure/access) to computers and the internet. Simply because us "techie" types and others who dive in are there, it's no reason to make it the exclusive avenue for something like this. We have over 300 homes in our neighborhood. We know how many are "wired" and we also know how many use the internet on a regular basis. It's not even close to 25%. That means over 75% (actually it's closer to over 80%) of our residents do NOT now use or intend to use the internet. Trying to FORCE them to do so, simply to be able to participate in their HOA, is not only futile, but probably not legal. Anyway, like I said, wish that it were different, but it just isn't. (By the way, I know others may have better luck and higher internet/computer participation rates, but my neighborhood is not unique in our community. Very few HOAs here have large groups of members plugged in.)

SamJ1
(Nevada)

Posts:11

01/23/2009 12:12 PM
Posted By MicheleD on 01/23/2009 9:37 AM Posted By SamJ1 on 01/23/2009 7:46 AM Posted By ScotJ on 01/21/2009 1:41 PM Do non-Board members have any voting rights to decide an issue at a special meeting, other than removal of a director and replacement of that director? Hi! Newbie here........ But when I saw this post.........couldn't resist .... I have been trying to give our Community "Informational Voting Rights" via our Website and Password Protected Message Board for almost three years now. In this, the 21st Century, where even first graders are learning to use a computer, isn't it time to use the internet in ALL of its possibilities? Check out my site: http://www.hendersonriverlanding.com/index.html or just type: river1234.com in your Address Bar..........then go to our Message Board: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/samn3s/vpost?id=3231795 Your thoughts?...........Sam Sam, it's a nice goal, but whether even first graders "can" do it or not, many, many, many people have no interest (or exposure/access) to computers and the internet. Simply because us "techie" types and others who dive in are there, it's no reason to make it the exclusive avenue for something like this. We have over 300 homes in our neighborhood. We know how many are "wired" and we also know how many use the internet on a regular basis. It's not even close to 25%. That means over 75% (actually it's closer to over 80%) of our residents do NOT now use or intend to use the internet. Trying to FORCE them to do so, simply to be able to participate in their HOA, is not only futile, but probably not legal. Anyway, like I said, wish that it were different, but it just isn't. (By the way, I know others may have better luck and higher internet/computer participation rates, but my neighborhood is not unique in our community. Very few HOAs here have large groups of members plugged in.) Hi Michele! The number of people "interested" in computers and the internet is increasing every year! Internet usage in the "Americas" is now about 26%..... http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats2.htm world stats at: http://www.internetworldstats.com/blog.htm And I volunteer at our Local Senior Ctr, holding Free 'Computer Sessions' twice a week ..........and I now have over 50 "Attendees" over the age of 80! Our street is very busy every day with UPS and FedEx Trucks making delivery of 'goods' ordered ONLINE! There are indeed a lot of "GrandMas" ordering online! And I think you misunderstood my idea of of our Community Website whereby HomeOwners would be able to access our Free Message Board 24/7 - 365 days a year.....even if it was used by just 5% of our HomeOwners....that would be 17 Home Owners who would for maybe the first time be able to participate in our HOA! Those who, for one reason or another, have never attended a Meeting..........have never been able to voice their concerns? Where they now could from the convenience of their home computer....or the computer from their neighbor's home.....relative's home .....or any public library....be able to participate in their HOA! They could have "Informational Voting Rights".............they could finally "HAVE A SAY IN THEIR HOA!" ...at our Community Website/Message Board! 24/7 - 365 Days A Year! Again......they would be able to bring up their own concerns ..........and the entire community would 'see' those concerns .......allowing any number or ALL HomeOwners being able to Cast Their Informational "Vote".......and if the Board of Directors initiates procedures opposite to what the majority of homeowners cast in their "Informational Votes" on the Message Board (even if an issue had a vote of just 22 'yes', and 21 'no'....YES WINS!) And.....well.........it would sure be easy to vote that "particular" Board Member 'out' during each Annual Election if he voted against the wishes of our Message Board 'Results'? Michele........again.......just "informational" voting rights by any number of HomeOwners, however small that may be..........would be MUCH BETTER than the "system" we now have in place! Sam ......... http://www.hendersonriverlanding.com/index.html or just: river1234.com ~

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

01/23/2009 12:49 PM
Sam, Ever wonder how we can walk down the same streets, read the same papers, watch the same programs on TV and still have such diverse opinions. Not sure I know how, but do know we do. Maybe that explains how some Board members are so reluctant to get involved in this mandatory e-mail stuff or maybe it is some kind of a "Board Hangup" that exists that causes some Board members to act defensively. This conversation can up here a few times and recently at a Board meeting at my place. Pretty much the same split and pretty much the same result. One item that seemed to be bothersome was how can a Board demand that owners supply e-mail addresses. Me, no big deal, we demand address, banking information, mortgage information, next of kin or responsible person, who to call in case of emergency, etc, etc. But e-mail adddresses................big problem. Our 65 unit condo has over 85% on line, we provide a wireless service and charge folks for using it, but we will not mail out five mailing to those that don't have e-mail and send e-mail all the rest. So, what to do?................not much to do except bide your time and keep chewing away. But, what strikes me in your post, that you have actually gone out and are teaching computer use to 80 plus year olds. I know absolutely positively your efforts are going to brighten more days that than some strange Board position about e-mail addresses. I am 78, and know little about computers when the scale of what there is to know is considered. There would be absolutely nothing wrong with giving classes to your neighbors to allow them to use e-mail and get involved in their neighborhood. There is another current post that deals with a sort of a survey here about how much money does the association spend to wards education. What better use of the association money than teach a member how they can really communicate with their management and neighbors about their home. Yeoman job!!!!!!!

SamJ1
(Nevada)

Posts:11

01/23/2009 1:26 PM
Posted By RobertR1 on 01/23/2009 12:49 PM Sam, Ever wonder how we can walk down the same streets, read the same papers, watch the same programs on TV and still have such diverse opinions. Not sure I know how, but do know we do. Maybe that explains how some Board members are so reluctant to get involved in this mandatory e-mail stuff or maybe it is some kind of a "Board Hangup" that exists that causes some Board members to act defensively. This conversation can up here a few times and recently at a Board meeting at my place. Pretty much the same split and pretty much the same result. One item that seemed to be bothersome was how can a Board demand that owners supply e-mail addresses. Me, no big deal, we demand address, banking information, mortgage information, next of kin or responsible person, who to call in case of emergency, etc, etc. But e-mail adddresses................big problem. Our 65 unit condo has over 85% on line, we provide a wireless service and charge folks for using it, but we will not mail out five mailing to those that don't have e-mail and send e-mail all the rest. So, what to do?................not much to do except bide your time and keep chewing away. But, what strikes me in your post, that you have actually gone out and are teaching computer use to 80 plus year olds. I know absolutely positively your efforts are going to brighten more days that than some strange Board position about e-mail addresses. I am 78, and know little about computers when the scale of what there is to know is considered. There would be absolutely nothing wrong with giving classes to your neighbors to allow them to use e-mail and get involved in their neighborhood. There is another current post that deals with a sort of a survey here about how much money does the association spend to wards education. What better use of the association money than teach a member how they can really communicate with their management and neighbors about their home. Yeoman job!!!!!!! Robert! I was a Yeoman 2nd Class in Coast Guard 64-68! Mandatory E-Mail? NO! NO! Just let the HOA offer use of Community Web Site/Message Board to their community. My HOA refuses to even acknowledge me or our Website after 3 years! I have spent personally in excess of $600 in the 3 years past doing mailings to our 330 Home Owners......telling them of our Free Website. But it should always be voluntary.......should never make it mandatory that a HomeOwner supply his/her e-mail address? In our situation............I fully believe our HOA Board Members are not even 'remotely' interested in having us Home Owners attend our very infrequent meetings or participate in a Community Website/Message Board. "They" possess the power and are certainly not interested in sharing that power with the Home Owners! And on my/our Website..I have given out my Telephone Nbr and address encouraging any homeowner to come to my home so that I can teach them how to open their own FREE E-mail account at G-Mail or Yahoo Mail and how to participate at our Web Site/Message Board. I know my website is a "tangle"...........and very hard to navigate......it is just a "work in progress"........my latest entry is at: http://www.hendersonriverlanding.com/BlockWallFenceToRVParkingArea.html I feel confident that it will not be long before a large percentage of Americans will finally: "Have A Say" in their HOA! www.HaveASayInYourHOA.com Hey! I am hoping it will generate $$$ !

PhilipK1

Posts:0

12/22/2010 12:50 PM
If your community documents state the members must approve an increase in assessments, then a vote of the members would be required. However, in most instances the board alone can make this decision. If you live in a planned community in AZ, unless the community documents call for a lower amount, the members must vote to approve an increase that is 20% over the last assessment. . ." (Ref ARS33-1803) If you are in a condo assn, if there is a limit to the amount of the increase, it would be so stated in your community documents. ARS Chapter 16 (33-1801- 33-1816) was passed in 1994 ; the condo act in 1986. Would you not agree that condos are a subset of planned communities? They meet all the reuirements in 33-1802 para 4 <4. "Planned community" means a real estate development which includes real estate owned and operated by a nonprofit corporation or unincorporated association of owners that is created for the purpose of managing, maintaining or improving the property and in which the owners of separately owned lots, parcels or units are mandatory members and are required to pay assessments to the association for these purposes. Planned community does not include a timeshare plan or a timeshare association that is governed by chapter 20 of this title> and are not specifically excluded as are timeshares and schools (33-1801b) 33-1801-A Specifically states that:"A. This chapter applies to all planned communities." and then goes on to exclude ONLY schools and timeshare (33-1801 Para B and C) PARA C does NOT say "excludes those subect to Chapter 20 OR Chapter 9" It only lists Chapter 20 and schools. Is there any case law on this subject? Under what rationale would Chapter 9 Condos not enjoy the added protections of Chapter 16 except when it is in conflict with Chapter 9 provisions? Thanks for your thoughts, Philip Kapleau Scottsdale,AZ .

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/23/2010 12:57 PM
Votes at special meetings and who votes most likely are easily defined by: 1) is the meeting authorized and if so, 2) those attending the meeting (most likely only the Board members) can vote. There are other special meetings that relate to voting such as when by-laws are changed which have to include all property owners. The other "special" meeting or event that would relate to who votes would be the election of Board members in which all homeowners participate. Special meetings to raise HOA fees can and most likely are completed with Board members only A side note: when I first moved into my HOA the voting results (the counts for an against) of any special meeting or the results (totals only) were not made known to the residents. It took me a year of battling with the Board to publish the voting results. Our by laws indicted the results were suppose to be made public as did our State bill/law. A few of us were weeks away from taking the Board to Court to get the results when they relented. You may have by laws or other guiding principles concerning special meetings and voting rights but good luck trying to get such things enforced.

SamJ2
(Nevada)

Posts:24

12/26/2010 1:58 PM
Update to my previous Posts.............and How great it was to read all the responses! In the last few months, I met a Gentleman named: "Jonathan Friedrich" - who has been on Local TV News several times in his quest to HELP Home Owners who are being unfairly treated by their respective HOAs. I am helping him by providing a Free Website: www.HOA1234.com Jonathan and all his fellow 'Crusaders' are doing what we can to change the Nevada NRS116 Laws to make them more: "Home Owner-Friendly"! And to get back to my earlier argument that ALL Home Owners should now be afforded the chance to: "Have A Say In Their HOA" - 24/7 365 days a year - from the convenience of their Home Computer! And my dear fellow home owners? Computer/Internet use is going to multiply immensely with Internet Shopping and Face Book and other Social Networking! Please check out Newsletter here: http://hoaadvocate.homestead.com/What-s-New-.html titled: "Join the 21st Century!" Poorly attended Board Meetings where it is difficult to even hear what is being said? And then the home owner is restricted to just a two minute response? NO! NO! ....those days are soon coming to an end! Instead? ALL issues will be uploaded in writing to a website/message Board where 100% of Home Owners can read/study them at their Leisure and can take all the time they want to compose their response to each issue! And every single Home Owner can cast their personal Vote on Each & Every Issue! In effect? Every Home Owner can indeed become in effect a BOARD MEMBER! With Voting Rights! The days of HOAs being run like Nazi Germany? Are numbered indeed!
Attachment: 11226584098871.mht
Sam Judie

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/26/2010 2:18 PM
Glad to see I am not alone in dealing with dysfunctional HOA Boards! First, and speaking only for my current HOA in Highlands Ranch, CO, residents only vote in elections for Board members and in special referendums to amend the by-laws. If your Board increases your fees, you don't have a vote on that, the Board can independently complete a rise in fees. I will follow SamJ2 and his efforts. There are a few issues to begin the process of change from power in the hands of "lifer" Board members to all residents: a. Term limits: if you don't have term limits these folks will stay in their positions until they drop dead. The enabling residents who simply rubber stamp elections of the same people, don't attend Board meetings, are adverse to change, and surely don't like any of the newer residents criticizing their "ole" boys are the blame. Time can only change the voting patterns and majorities and term limits, unfortunately are difficult to implement or put up for a vote because the only way initiatives like this are voted upon is with Board approval and that won't happen until the Board changes. b. State laws must be changed to make by-laws other than empty rules that are used by Boards to enforce covenants (and I think that is good) but can't be legally be used by homeowners to hold abusive Boards accountable. Most State legislation has enforcement and penalty provisions and this must be changed.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:3622

12/26/2010 9:43 PM
Stan, I know you like to deal in generalities but I would like to know more about a couple of the items you have put forth through several of your posts. 1. Term Limits, while I am not opposed to them I would like to know what you see happening when an experienced director (a “lifer” if you will) cannot run because of term limits and no one steps up to run for their seat or worse IMHO a good director cannot run because of term limits and the only ones willing to run are shall we say intellectually or morally challenged? 2. You keep talking about “Nobody to Enforce” just who do you want to enforce the CC&R’s? Currently if a homeowner believes the BOD is violating the CC&R’s they have the option to sue the HOA for either injunctive or punitive relief along with court costs and/or attorney fee’s. Who do you see enforcing the CC&R’s, the police and court system or a State appointed arbiter with plenipotentiary powers in HOA matters? Normally when a person sues the HOA and wins, they receive the results of the suit. If the State is involved, such as with a criminal trial, any fines or fees imposed by the judge are paid to the State, who keeps the money; is this what you foresee? And are there any consequences (monetary or otherwise) for homeowners who repeatedly file baseless or frivolous charges?

Your board meeting is not held in the Situation Room of the White House. It's not life or death. Let people in, keep it positive, then go home and get a good night's sleep. If you hold off drinking until after the meeting, instead of before or during, you're probably doing OK. JosephW

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

12/27/2010 8:51 AM
Hello to all, Don't post much but felt Glen's remarks cut closer to the bone. What is; is, and HOA's are no exception. They stand as the result of their evolution, collectively and singularly. Most, nearly all, operate under minority rule, like it or not. If this minority did not exist, HOA's collapse or fail. I suggest they will never be run by the majority and the majority, and for large part, don't have a clue as to what it takes to do the day to day scut work. If you have the finances, turn it over to the professionals and watch the professionals to insure good management. That is ideal and a far cry from majority rules. Communication has been at a level that all members of an association can participate in discussions and decisions, most elect not to. Now, if you can change the communication to educate the owners, maybe then, you may have some chance of majority rules. Sure, there are rogue boards and ego seekers and a few nut cases, but by far, HOA's stumble along with a few owners leading the parade, and they get the job done. My state, SC, according to the AJ office feels that internal affairs, exceptions for criminal activity, should be handled by the association. In other words, you are big boys and girls, settle your own spats.

StanH5
(Colorado)

Posts:89

12/27/2010 9:18 AM
RobertR1 Your comments in general on settling HOA disputes between HOA Boards and homeowners: settle disuputes among the family? Well, if that worked this forum wouldn't exist, the Courts would not have thousands of cases concerning these issues, and bad behavior/dishonest activity of any Board would most likely have to be tolerated as Boards control the operation of the community. In other words, the "trust me, I'm Your Board" defense should work and we know the truth about that. Governance of HOA's requires some guidelines, rules, regulations, and, yes, enforcement and penalties. This goes for the banking industry, food processing industry, and most activities in our society. Disputes are by definition events that can't be resolved due to one or both parties for a variety of reasons and ,therefore, can't be settled ourselves. This is especially true when one party is in a positon of power and control (Board) and has no regards for the very tools set up to resolve conflict: by-laws. It would be nice to say all Boards provide and open, negotiating, and friendly and cooperative environment for residents but that is only in a world defined by someone on another planet. The good news is that in term limited HOA's and hopefully most HOA's, most business is simple and repetitive and not corrupt and most volunteer Board members are serving the community when others won't step forward. Questions on this forum and other web sites and in State legislatures address those dysfunctional Boards that one might say tarnish all others.

NormanM1
(Nevada)

Posts:8

12/27/2010 10:26 AM
Just a response to Donna S, MaryA1 and Scot. It looks like you are under the impression that it takes a vote of some kind in order for a Board of Directors to raise fees or impose a special assessment. WRONG! EXAMPLE: Hear in Nevada, we have some of the largest Community Associations in the country. Over 7000 homeowners are in a single HOA. While in most states, it is required that a developer submit and fund a reserve study when the Association is built out (Transition from Developer control to Resident control), in Nevada the “powers that be” have discovered some new and novel ways to get around that rigid requirement. It’s accomplished by the BOD and the reserve study provider who is willing to accept anything and everything the BOD says. When the developer transitioned where I live for example, did not fund the reserves adequately at transition, the BOD merely informed the reserve study provider that the price for a reserved item was 96 % more than the industry standard. The new higher (non-verified) price was then published in the reserve study and “PRESTO”. A higher assessment was put in place to fund the mythical higher price. Bottom line – there needs to be more control to prevent Boards from influencing the reserve studies. Using actual contracted prices, instead of using bid prices would be a good start. Bid prices as you might know can be all over the place, but it seems here in Nevada it is perfectly acceptable to use “highest bidder” prices whenever the BOD needs to increase the required funding INSTEAD OF VOTING FOR IT. It works the same way for a “Budget”. If the “Budget” is based on fictitious or artificially high prices for the proposed expenses, the “Budget” itself acts as a legal vehicle to raise your dues without a vote. By the way, where I live it takes 90% of the population to even REJECT the budget. Yes, you read that right. It takes 90% to reject the Budget. Has anyone reading this EVER had an election or a “Budget” vote where 90% of the population actually voted?

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:5164

12/27/2010 12:13 PM
Stan, Never said all boards are wonderful and make wise decisions. Am saying MOST (by far) Boards are run by people like you and I. We have our faults and like family usually settle differences and I believe that "usually" expresssion is accurate. Should bad boards be taken to task? Of course (loook at your figures). But consider the other facts, these differences are settled every day by HOA Boards and owners. Most, I believe are compromises, otherwise nothing would look. But to get back to the original subject on the thread, I would conclude that technology and education or the ownership is necessary to run a comfortable HOA. Our condo is 98% registered e-mail. Do we utilize technology to the fullest? I doubt it, but, we are changing and making the adjustments to educate our ownership in the advantages of owner participation. The will is there, the technology is there, but we are still behind the curve, but, we are getting better. I don't believe we are the exception.

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