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BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
We are reviewing the pros and cons of Professional vs Self-Managment of HOAs, and I'd like to gather your opinions and experiences. I don't really wish to get into prolonged discussions about the topic and would prefer to see only a single reply from each person who feels they have something to offer. Primarily, I'm looking for the answers to a few questions:

1. Is your association presently professionally managed or self-managed?
2. How large is your association? (How many units?)
3. What is the size of your annual budget? (In general terms, under $25K, $25K-$100K, $100K-500K, greater than $500K)
4. Do you have problems with:
a) maintenance and maintenance contractors?
b) delinquencies?
c) compliance issues?
d) legal issues?
5. If you are self-managed, how many labor hours are required to
a) collect assessments?
b) pay bills?
c) respond to homeowner issues and complaints?
d) enforce compliance?
6) If you are professionally managed, does your PM provide advice to the board? Is it useful? Do they provide help with compliance issues? Help with delinquency issues?
7) Is this strictly your opinion or does it reflect the opinion of your board?

Any additional comments you think would be useful.

Thanks in advance for your replies.
MichaelS26 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
1. YES WE ARE PROFESSIONALLY MANAGED
2. WE HAVE 302 HOMES
3. UNDER 25K
4.a YES
b YES
c YES
d YES
5. NA
6 YES AND YES
7. THE BOARDS OPINION

ALL OF OUR MONEY GOES TO THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY WITH NOTHING LEFT OVER. WE HAVE THOUGHT FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS A RIP OFF. WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO GO ABOUT BEING SELF MANAGED BUT WOULD LOVE ALSO TO HEAR FROM OTHERS THAT HAVE AND HOW THEY DID IT. WE ARE IN THE STATE OF TEXAS.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
a management company is a tool, not only is it a tool, it's a professional grade, heavy duty, contractor pack power tool...

a great tool in the hands of a good carpenter is a wonder to behold. A great tool in the hands of an inept carpenter is a disaster.

the first thing to look for when you are thinking of getting a professional tool like a mgt company is: How good a board do you have now? If it's a good board, then a better tool may be the thing to get the job done. If it's an average board, then maybe, just maybe the new tool will help them be better. but if it's a poor board, giving them a big powered motorized tool is going to make a big mess, faster than ever before.

my two cents...
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,963
Posted:
For the most part, I think the members of my board would agree with the following:

1. we're professionally managed
2. there are 156 units in the community
3. our budget is over $200K - with our fee increase effective next year, we will just past the $250k barrier
4. We don't have too many problems with maintenance contractors, but there are some compliance issues: mostly with litter, a few satellite dishes in the wrong place and one family that hangs laundry outside over the fence instead of within their patio. thankfully, it's too cold for them to do this now

Our legal issues and delinquencies are related - we have a decent attorney, but I'm about to propose a review of our legal fees vs. recovery rate, so we can negotiate a different payment set up.

6) Our property manager does the best she can, but sometimes, I think our president expects her to do things that really are within the jurisdiction of the board, so the secretary and I are trying to get her more organized. We also need a more consistent approach with delinquencies, as next year, I want to look at more creative ways (if there are any) to decrease them.

As to whether your HOA should manage things on its own or hire a company, I personally think self management works best with small communities or buildings. You also need a very active group of homeowners to make it work, not to mention people with excellent management skills. If the community is apathetic and barely pays fees, self management may not work.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JoeK1 (Michigan)
Posts: 37
Posted:
I would like to offer you a viewpoint that may not directly answer your question, but I think should be an important consideration in your decision to self-manage or not. It deals with your current Board of Directors. Many people consider this to be a black and white decision – either I self-manage or use a Management Company. It is not. If you choose the Management Company route, you still have to have an active and engaged BoD if you want to be successful.

Too many Boards blindly abdicate their responsibilities to a Management Company. This is wrong! Since BoD members are elected as the association leaders – then, they should lead the association. Many Boards simply choose not to lead. They believe that if they hire a reputable Management Company then the management of the association will take care of itself. You can not sit back and be the victim of a Management Company’s “standard practices”, lack of cost cutting aggressiveness, poor performance, or profit making motives. It is not in the best interest of your association and you should not simply wash your hands of this responsibility and become an “absentee landlord.”

Therefore, your current BoD is the key component to this decision. Their level of skill, expertise, management experience, desire, and available time, will help point the way to whether or not you should use a Management Company. The other important consideration is money as these services do not come cheap. It can represent a major expense to an association (some are upwards of 30% of the annual budget), and it is an area of cost reduction opportunity that cannot be ignored.

So, as you can see, the reasons for an association to use a Management Company can range from “convenience” for some to a “necessity” for others. If an association’s BoD is facing a severe financial condition, it may have to take on more of these direct management duties than it would prefer. There are several things that should be highlighted regarding the use a Management Company.

- While management companies can simplify things for a condo or homeowner association BoD, they do not replace the BoD. A Management Company reports to and receives its direction from the BoD and not the other way around.

- Inexperienced BoD’s must guard against a Management Company “dependency” where the Management Company is calling all the shots and the BoD is merely a rubber stamp.

- A Management Company, like any company, is only as good as its people. They may not have the necessary skill sets to properly manage the association and may also have “blind spots” that prevent them from running the association’s business in the most effective way possible. Today's Management Company must do more than review monthly budget reports, handle violation notices, or perform the daily maintenance activities. They must minimize costs at every opportunity and come up with creative ways for condo and homeowner associations to combat rising costs or economic downturns.

- Finally, the use of a Management Company still requires and engaged BoD. An engaged BoD does more than simply show up for scheduled meetings and vote to approve minutes and budgets. Engaged BoD’s partake in vigorous discussions that help shape the vision and future direction of their association. Engaged BoD’s ask questions of their Management Company and becomes educated on the issues their association is involved in. Engaged BoD’s read and understand monthly financial statements and accept their responsibility for ensuring the association’s short-term stability and long-term sustainability. Engaged BoD’s define expectations for their Management Company and confront any poor performance. And, finally, engaged BoD’s must learn when it is appropriate to micromanage their Management Company and when it is not.

The use of a Management Company, it does not have to be an all-or-nothing proposition. You should carefully determine the level of self-management that you can do and the level of Management Company services that you will use -- and can afford.

– Take apart any current or proposed Management Company contract line-item-by-line item and explore alternative ways to eliminate, revise it, or have the service performed by someone else at a lower cost.

– Separate the association “needs” from its “wants”

– Have the Management Company provide quotes for each line item in the contract. This will allow for an apples-to-apples comparison with self management or other suppliers.

– Often, one of the largest expenses is bookkeeping. If you have an active volunteer group that is willing to take over some management tasks, you can realize significant savings by hiring an accountant to handle the books and to process payments/receipts.

Total self-management is a very viable option for small to medium associations. Larger ones will typically need a level of support services provided by a Management Company or independent contractors. Again, this does not have to be an all-or-nothing proposition.

If you are not familiar with all of the things that must be taken into consideration when self-managing an association, refer to ******** and look under the Contents section. It will provide you with a good check list of items needed for setting up the necessary management and control infrastructure.

Hopefully, this backdrop along with specific answers to your questions will help your BoD make the right decision for your association.

Good Luck
JoeK

HeatherJ1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 89
Posted:
I'm new in this as you know so my answers probably will not help but I'll offer them:

1. Is your association presently professionally managed or self-managed? self managed
2. How large is your association? (How many units?) 70 houses/lots
3. What is the size of your annual budget? (In general terms, under $25K, $25K-$100K, $100K-500K, greater than $500K) UNDER 25K
4. Do you have problems with:
a) maintenance and maintenance contractors? no
b) delinquencies? not really... only one house and they are going thru a divorce
c) compliance issues? a bit... not excessive
d) legal issues? yes... but that comes from our current president and his choice of our lawyer and his power hunger
5. If you are self-managed, how many labor hours are required to
a) collect assessments? Not sure as treasurer does it
b) pay bills? ditto above
c) respond to homeowner issues and complaints? we do not have many... maybe one every other month
d) enforce compliance? ditto above
6) If you are professionally managed, does your PM provide advice to the board? Is it useful? Do they provide help with compliance issues? Help with delinquency issues? n/a
7) Is this strictly your opinion or does it reflect the opinion of your board? strictly my opinion

JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
S/M, 21 SFDs, $20K, runs very well with 15 hrs/mo put in by 3 BODs.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Bruce,

1) My rental villa is professionally managed . This is a 55+ community and it takes much stress off of the Board to have a P.M take care of major stuff.

2) They are 230 units, 2 to a villa or 115 buildings.

3) Annual budget is $815,000 this year

4)a. Problems with maintenances? Rarely have problems . The M.C is fairly large and they handle all contracts with all approvals sent to Board for a vote.
b.Delinquencies are extremely rare except for an occasional "I Forgot" and this is quite possible because many owners are 80+ in years.
c.Complaint Issues are all handled by the M.C. Every unit has a big magnetic card with the 800 number to call for any issues. The call is a 24/7 service of the M.C. All service requests are answered within 24 hours. Emergencies are handeled asap. There is an on site manager during the day.
d. Legal issues almost always are because of interpretation of documents regarding the dern "Who Pays For What. The dues are high because of association responsibility for repair and replacement of much of the outer structures, power washing drives and sidewalks.Therefore the lawyer is ofter called because of homeowners wanting things done and the Board makes sure before they okay or deny any items.
5. The P.M is on site for 3.5 hours each day. He does all complaint and violation and enforcement thru letters. All billing and all financials. Everything is backed up on disk. He does twice a week drives thru on a golf cart so he can go behind the units. He HAS the right to enter any lot because all lawn areas are considered "COMMON AREA". Only owner owned property is up to and including any land under the roof eaves so outside of that is common.
The P.Ms here are required to know the Statutes and have a professional license. He WILL tell the Board when they are not following those laws. He attends all monthly Board meetings and does a managers report. He laso writes his part in the newsletter.
Is this the Boards opinion? You Bettcha!
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
I'd like to thank everyone who has posted replies here so far. It is not my intention to comment on any of the replies. I am only gathering experience facts/statistics and opinions. The more I get, the more useful they will be. I still hope to hear from a few more. Thanks again.
TimH1 (Alabama)
Posts: 17
Posted:
1. Is your association presently professionally managed or self-managed? Self managed
2. How large is your association? (How many units?) 165 single family homes
3. What is the size of your annual budget? (In general terms, under $25K, $25K-$100K, $100K-500K, greater than $500K) 57.5 K
4. Do you have problems with:
a) maintenance and maintenance contractors? no
b) delinquencies? not 1 in 4 years running the assn.
c) compliance issues? no
d) legal issues? no
5. If you are self-managed, how many labor hours are required to
a) collect assessments? letters go out in April, due June 22, follow up letters to any late, probably 10-15 hours.
b) pay bills? 1 hour per week, done by Treas.
c) respond to homeowner issues and complaints? 1 hours per week, done by VP-Covenants
d) enforce compliance? not really an issue
6) If you are professionally managed, does your PM provide advice to the board? Is it useful? Do they provide help with compliance issues? Help with delinquency issues?
7) Is this strictly your opinion or does it reflect the opinion of your board?

While not for every HOA, ours has 5 good, business minded Board members, and we are self managed. We employ an outside pool maintenence company, as well as a professional landscaping company to care for the grounds. Clubhouse rental is done via our web-site and managed by volunteers. We have an ARC, Covenants, Grounds, and Social Committees, and the pool and clubhouse are managed by Board members. All in all, it works well for us, and has allowed us to escrow a sizable chunk for improvements to our 26+ acres of common areas.
PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257
Posted:


1. Is your association presently professionally managed or self-managed? SELF
2. How large is your association? 130
3. What is the size of your annual budget? $300k
4. Do you have problems with:
a) maintenance and maintenance contractors? No
b) delinquencies? Rarely
c) compliance issues? Few
d) legal issues? No
5. If you are self-managed, how many labor hours are required to
a) collect assessments? Delegated to our CPA
b) pay bills? 2 hrs/week + CPA time
c) respond to homeowner issues and complaints? One
d) enforce compliance? 1/2
6) If you are professionally managed, does your PM provide advice to the board? Is it useful? Do they provide help with compliance issues? Help with delinquency issues?
7) Is this strictly your opinion or does it reflect the opinion of your board? Board

We hire professional help when needed - hence CPA, attorney when required, etc. The Board reviews this decision repeatedly. We feel that professional management will not significantly change what we do as volunteers - and it will cost many $$$.

KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
1. Is your association presently professionally managed or self-managed?
professionally managed
2. How large is your association? (How many units?)
308 single family houses
3. What is the size of your annual budget?
about $60k
4. Do you have problems with:
a) maintenance and maintenance contractors?
no
b) delinquencies?
we have a few, but not many
c) compliance issues?
this is our biggest issue, and we consider the inspections as part of the problem.
d) legal issues?
no
5. If you are self-managed, how many labor hours are required to
a) collect assessments?
b) pay bills?
c) respond to homeowner issues and complaints?
d) enforce compliance?
6) If you are professionally managed, does your PM provide advice to the board? Is it useful? Do they provide help with compliance issues? Help with delinquency issues?
They provide as much advice as we seek. They do the leg work for all compliance and delinquency issues. Most of our issues are when members have issues with the way things have worked out with the management company and wrestling with policy issues.
7) Is this strictly your opinion or does it reflect the opinion of your board?
I think most of the board feels similar to myself.

I also will mention along the lines of a previous poster, that you should not abdicate the role to management. One thing that we continuously hear is how involved we are compared with most boards. And yet most of us don't feel that we are overly involved. The president has mentioned that she would never have guessed how much effort she would spend keeping things on track with the management company.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
1. Is your association presently professionally managed or self-managed? ........A single manager with wife assistant
2. How large is your association? (How many units?)......65 condo
3. What is the size of your annual budget? (In general terms, under $25K, $25K-$100K, $100K-500K, greater than $500K)......$260K
4. Do you have problems with:
a) maintenance and maintenance contractors? ....not much
b) delinquencies? ...Not much
c) compliance issues? ...yes because of absentee owners renting property
d) legal issues? ...more often now that say ten years ago
5. If you are self-managed, how many labor hours are required to
a) collect assessments?........ This is hard to estimate since our manager does not have to report hours spent or be at a work site or office at specified times.
b) pay bills?
c) respond to homeowner issues and complaints?
d) enforce compliance?...........A few members of our board spend way too much time overseeing and making plans and trying to move projects forward that for some reason are always behind.
6) If you are professionally managed, does your PM provide advice to the board? Is it useful? Do they provide help with compliance issues? Help with delinquency issues? ......He does and excellent job in some areas, for my money, ten years is too long at this job and we need new blood.
7) Is this strictly your opinion or does it reflect the opinion of your board? My opinion

Comments: I would like to see this when you get it compiled, valuable information if sample is high enough. Over time I am sure you know this business waxes and wanes, it is good one month bad the next. But I believe most boards would be better served if they sat down en masse and did a critical self analysis once a year. Not a meeting but a discussion of what transpired and what they are doing right or wrong. I know this may be skirting the rule about meetings but no reason it could not be noted that this occurred and recorded.

Condo especially are effected by absentee homeowners that have a primary interest in their bottom line or Flipping. But in a resort area, like the one I live in our single family homes are now 80% absentee owned. Our condo is 90%. I believe but am not sure that the single family absentee owners participate more in the community. This could also be because of the POA management seems more motivated to communicate with all owners, could be wrong.
A
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
1. Management Company
2. Condos 132 units
3. $260,000
4a. Getting contractors interested in smaller jobs, however the economy is making it easier.
4b. 2-3%
4c. Not really
4d. No
6. Yes / Some / Yes / Yes
7. Mine

Although I suspect the poster was with a MC and JoeK made an excellent point about a BOD not abrogating their responsibility; one of the best posts on MC vs. Self-management that I've seen here came from RobertL3 back in January of 2006 Re-posted below:
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/view/topic/forumid/1/postid/329/Default.aspx

Self management can be a costly mistake for homeowner Associations. Volunteers often lack the experience to effectively take on the duties of Association management; collecting dues, paying bills, handling maintenance, record keeping, and rules enforcement.

A much more beneficial and sustainable situation is one in which service to the community does not diminish the volunteer's ability to enjoy living in their community. The best way to take pressure off your volunteer Board is to hire a professional to manage the day-to-day affairs of the association. Start by considering the four reasons why you might want to hire a manager:

Reason 1: Time

It takes time for volunteer board members to run their association. On any given day these volunteers might be responding to homeowner calls, arranging maintenance appointments for various everyday repairs, writing enforcement letters, dealing with the grounds contractor, posting assessment payments and preparing financial statements, and consulting with the association attorney on collections and other legal matters. If this sounds like a full time job, you might want to let your homeowners be homeowners and hire an experienced agent to perform these duties.

Reason 2: Knowledge

In addition to technical specifications and various questions of law, finance, and governance, you need to have more than a passing familiarity with local, state, and federal laws that apply to everyday workings of your community. Yours would not be the first board to feel overwhelmed by the sheer volume of knowledge it must possess. Good professional managers bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to the table, making them a valuable resource for the board.

Reason 3: Continuity

Board members might come and go, but a manager can offer a common thread that links one administration to the next. Why does this matter? Think about the importance of continuity when it comes to record keeping, budgeting, dealings with contractors, suppliers, and professional service providers, and even the relationships with your residents.

Reason 4: Convenience

The board should be a decision-making body, but too often the day-to-day distractions of educating residents and attempting to meet their expectations can pull managing board members away from the big picture. Professional management can provide an administrative buffer, giving your residents the attention they deserve and freeing the board to focus on those decisions that affect the long-term viability of the community.

Professional property managers bring a wealth of experience and knowledge to the table that can end up saving homeowners thousands in unplanned expenses and lost property value at a cost to each homeowner of just pennies a day. (If it sounds like a plug, it is. Full disclosure requires that I admit to being a professional property manager who once took my own community down the self-managed route. ;)

Experience with insurance, contractors, maintenance, enforcement, and legal issues can save an inexperienced volunteer hundreds of hours of research. Professional property managers can keep issues of assessment billing and rules enforcement from becoming “personal”. Finally, a well run, professionally managed Association can retain its attractiveness to potential buyers, resulting in higher property values.

While it is true that homeowner volunteers can perform some of the functions of a professional property manager, it is also true that volunteers often lack the experience to effectively take on the duties of Association management; collecting dues, paying bills, handling maintenance, record keeping, and rules enforcement. A professional manager can help your Association avoid costly mistakes.

There is also the issue of fairness and risk. Association management is a mandated function under most Association CC&Rs. Asking a single member to provided mandated services free of charge places an unequal burden and costs on that member (fairness) while the costs of errors and omissions on the part of that volunteer are borne by all (risk).

When you consider the potential costs to the Association of poor or inconsistent management, financial mismanagement, poor record keeping, inadequate reserves or insurance, inadequate maintenance, volunteer burnout, inconsistent rules enforcement, and falling property values then the advantages and true value of professional management become more and more apparent.

This is not to say that self-management does not work. I headed up a Board that successfully managed a single family association. But it was a LOT OF WORK to do the job right. There are thousands of associations across the country that successfully self manage. The question any Board needs to ask itself is, are the costs worth the benefits? If the answer is yes, then by all means, go for it. In many smaller and single family associations without many amenities, self management is the only thing that makes sense. Understanding the pitfalls will hopefully allow you to make the best decision for your community.

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