Out of State President...HELP!!!!..long > HOA Forum

Unanswered

Active Topics

Forums

Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions

Subject: Out of State President...HELP!!!!..long

Prev Next

You are not authorized to post a reply.

Page 1 of 2

Author

Messages

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/22/2008 7:00 AM
This is very long. Please read. If any of you have kept up with our HOA problems then you know what a mess our President got us in financially by firing and hiring so many times and with each hiring the cost to the Association was greater. Well after placing the HOA is this mess, a mess IMO we will not be able to get out of for a very long time. On Aug.29th she resigned. We then by default had a out of state President. I ask for a meeting ASAP, to appoint a new President, one who would be on hand for our many problems. The new Pres e-mailed me back and said everything was just fine....One Sept 4th our MC sent a e-mail telling us they would be resigning also as of Nov. 5th....Again I e-mailed with the same request, an emergency meeting. I had explained to the new Pres that this had to be done because of end of the year task that needed doing ASAP....Again he didn't respond after I explained the time notifications for meeting, Board/member. Finally he said he would be in town Nov. 14th.... He showed up alright, I was never informed or spoken too. He had had all the HOA files turned over to our newest Board member, a director. I am the Treasurer and I needed those files to perform my duties....He was here and gone (3days) in three days. He sae me sitting on my porch but never bothered to cross the street and speak w/me and I was never offered any files. The files were given to our newest BM and her boyfriend. It was this boy friend that went w/him to the Bank (only to here what I had already told him). NO ACCESS until properly done. He even has this boy friend looking for MC's. He is NOT even a HO's the girl friend is. What right does he have to go through our files? I had told him (long before his visit)that I had been to the bank and I was told not one of the present Board members were on signature cards and could NOT access the Bank account. That there MUST be a meeting and the new minutes and Incorportation paper must be brought in...Like everything, he thought he knew everything so he ignored me and went to the bank...He was told the exact same thing...duh..so here we are almost three months later and still have no access to our Bank account. The bills can't be paid and I also was not given the key to the POBox so the dues if sent in early could not be deposited. I have ask this man to Please step down long ago, because he was out of town (in Mass.) and that we needed a Presidnet to be here (there is no VP, that was his position before the Presidnet resigned). I had also ask that he call a meeting before he came down so that a meeting could be held...he did not, so this is where we stand. I had no choice but to resign because there was no way I could fulfill my duties without Bank access. There was the 2009 Budget, sending invoices, filing taxes and paying our bills....we had plenty of time to have all this straightened out had he chose to do so. Our secretary is leaving in a few days, her husband received his orders. So we now have 2 Board members, this out of town jerk and our newest BM who is just a director who knows absolutely nothing about the CC&R's, FL SS or what has gone on in the HOA. Since this man will not step down, and we really have no time for a recall what the heck can the HO's do to get rid of him and try and save our Association?... We have already had vendors call and ask when they would be getting their money...the Termite company said if we do not pay by a certain time that we would lose our contract....What could this guy been thinking, I thing being President has made him feel like the "Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz." at the expense of the community and HO's

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

11/22/2008 9:46 AM
Sidney, The saga continues, doesn't it. I have followed your posts for a very long time and things never seem to get better. I remember trying to give you some help a while back but you seem to be fighting this battle all by yourself because no one else is interested. All that I can say is that perhaps the only thing that could dig your association out is to let it go in the tank, which it already seems to have done. Then you might need a recievership to take over and fix the mess. What a sad day to let things get this bad. I sincerely wish that someone could help and I wish you and your association some resolution. Best of luck to you all.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2504

11/22/2008 11:50 AM
Sidney, I get the impression it's not only the Pres who has a lack of interest, but also the other board members. Otherwise, a meeting could have been called w/o the presence of the Pres to take care of these pressing matters. Considering everything you've gone through, I think you've done the right thing. As Donna said, perhaps it's best to just let the assn go under. If no one gives a darn, there's not much only one person (you) can do!! Take care!

AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:386

11/22/2008 3:25 PM
Sidney, I may not be of much help, BUT. Have you put all of this information in writing and let each and every owner know what is going on??? The people have the power to recall this fool. You're right...he sounds like he's someone who has let the power and the "title" go to his head. This isn't a game....for him to play when it's convenient for him. This is a BUSINESS. I'm sorry it's turned out this way for you. I know you've been trying very, very hard to set things straight.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2520

11/22/2008 4:31 PM
Sidney, If I understand right, you are a Board member. Even if you weren't you have a right to call a Special Meeting according to your documents. At least, I hope this is included in your documents. As a Board member your action to call a Special Meeting would very likely be considered an officially sanctioned act, if some other BOD resists. Do it anyway. Donna, what is the Florida law about special meetings? It is not hard to decide why you should have a special meeting and I suspect you just need a reason and some support. If you can go to the meeting, explain the troubles, make constructive suggestions, have a discussion and come up with a consenus of how to proceed. No doubht a lawyer will be in the picture to get your situation before a judge, where you should have a sympathic ear, and some legal orders. Your President is going to have a tough road if it gets to the judge the association is going into the toilet because he will not attend to business, and likely all the past resignees, including the MC could be pulled back into this.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/22/2008 4:39 PM
Donna/MaryA1....Thanks for the replys, just wish they could have been more helpful. I was at my unit today and found at meeting notice was posted on the mail boxes for Tues. the 25th at the newest BM's house, this notice was alos posted by her. The agenda is to be about emergency business: the acceptance of the resignation of the President, the MC and the treasurer(which is me)and any other action taken, nomination and appointment of directors/officers(there can be no nomination of officers until our Annual meeting which is due Jan 16/09), correspondence from lawyers if any, status of bank accounts, status of outstanding bills, if any (which of course I know their are some. I have no idea if the acting President is even showing up again or who will be conducting the meeting. I was told the secretary will not be coming because she will be leaving for good the day before Thanksgiving. So as I see it there will only be one Board member unless the acting President was VP so is President by default)shows up, then there would be two...we are suppose to be a five (5) member Board. Can there be a sanctioned meeting w/o a quorum? Can he appoint someone to fill a empty seat at the last minute. He wants to appoint a non HO...but from what I understand this man would not be able to vote because he just lives with the newest Board member who is the HO. Can he just have this meeting to place anyone he wants on the signature cards at the bank?...I hated to resign, I loved what I was doing but with all the resignations and no meeting I could not do my job...I sincerely hope, if we can get our ducks all in a row, would love to be elected back as Treasurer in Jan. but only if this out of town HO steps down from the Board so that our Board can try to reorganize....Guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens and who shows up at this meeting.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/22/2008 5:04 PM
Anna.....You know Anna, we only have about 15/16 HO's actually living on the property and out of those only 6/7 have ever been involved in any way. The same ones are/were on the Board, volunteer to clean up or do anything for the community. The rest of the (77) units are leased or empty. No I haven't informed all the HO's but what I did do was e-mail the 12 HO's that I had e-mail addresses for last night....I have NOT received one (1) reply. Not one HO has shown any concern....We also have 14 delinquent accounts and it's obvious they don't care because they are a big part of our problems. I have given my all to this community, since we took control in 2006, while on the Board and off the Board. I have every file there is, more then other Board members or MC's put together. I have purchased the FL.SS yearly to keep up w/any changes. I am continually trying to learn but all of this has done no good. There's just no where to go for help....The CC&R's and the State gives us laws to follow but if Board don't, so be it...theres no where to turn. No accountibility. I did find out our PM had NO CAM license and I did report her, I even had a meeting the the secretary of the DBPR when he came to Gulf Breeze, FL....Her status on file has been changed but I still have not received a final out come, if there was any disciplinary action taken. She was also a part of the problem. She at least gave us plenty of notice and had the "President" acted we wouldn't be in this mess of no being able to access our bank account.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1866

11/22/2008 6:03 PM
Sidney, I feel for you terribly. I have followed your situation and your plight for months now and I have to admit I don't think I would have had the grit that you've had to take it this far. I have no doubt the resignation was a hard decision to make. Peace to you, sister, and I only wish I could offer some words of wisdom or help or whatever, but all I can pass along is my support to you for your diligence. Take care.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2316

11/22/2008 6:28 PM
Who does fill vacancies?? You now have a vacancy for the VP position, it can be filled immediately. Your slot cannot be filled until the resignation is accepted and noted for the minutes. Then is could be filled by appointment. Of course, this all depends on if a quorum is there to conduct the meeting. I have a feeling that this president and his new cohorts DO have access to the HOA funds - you are just out of the loope and have been squeezed out. Keep an eye on all things. And there is the election in January. You CAN nominate yourself, you know for any position. The Members vote, not the president. Start campaigning now. Good luck.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1468

11/22/2008 10:34 PM
As a Board member and the treasurer, why were you not a signatory on the accounts?

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2316

11/23/2008 5:20 AM
Sorry - the president, as a member, DOES have a vote. It's just one, however.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2504

11/23/2008 10:27 AM
Posted By SusanW1 on 11/22/2008 6:28 PM Who does fill vacancies?? You now have a vacancy for the VP position, it can be filled immediately. Your slot cannot be filled until the resignation is accepted and noted for the minutes. Then is could be filled by appointment. Of course, this all depends on if a quorum is there to conduct the meeting. I have a feeling that this president and his new cohorts DO have access to the HOA funds - you are just out of the loope and have been squeezed out. Keep an eye on all things. And there is the election in January. You CAN nominate yourself, you know for any position. The Members vote, not the president. Start campaigning now. Good luck. Even if the current board does not meet the quorum requirement they may still be able to hold a meeting and conduct business. The AZ nonprofit corp statutes say: "If the directors remaining in office constitute fewer than a quorum of the BOD they may fill the vacancy by the affirmative vote of a majority of all the directors remaining in office." I would suggest checking FL nonprofit corp statutes.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

11/23/2008 12:57 PM
Mary, Florida is the same. The remaining BODs can fill any vacancies just by their appointment.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/23/2008 4:45 PM
No, Susan...the President (he was the VP) does not have access to the Bank account. I was elected to the Treasurer position in March....the PM did get me to sign a signature card but I guess she never turned it in w/the minutes to the bank....and w/o a meeting and taking minutes to show the new Board members and resignation of the MC and President the bank will not change anything...and like I said that dump out of town President did not arrange for a meeting to be held when he came to town for three day (we had three months to have all this taken care of but he was out not here)...He thinks he is so smart, just thought he could walk into the Bank and do what I couldn't do. I had told him exactly what the Bank manager has said...but he's smarter then anyone else. I can still get on line access to the accounts but I cannot write checks so there for the bills are not getting paid...I can see that no bills have been paid....This new Board member doesn't know anything..even ask me if we had insurance and if so with who?...I called our insurance company and received my own copy each year....I have some files all the way back to 2005 and I'm the only one who has them. As I said, they finally placed a notice for a meeting after I resigned and sent a letter stating why....If a Treasurer can't get access to the bank account and check book, she can't very well do her job. I have drawn up a 2009 Budget..but in one e-mail the out of town President said he thought we should self manage, the next e-mail he says he's been contacting MC's...and he want to change all vendors...How can I draw up a good Budget when I don't even know what this jerk is going to do. This meeting is to be this coming Tuesday. Just have to see what happens. I would gladly go back on the Board if this jerk steps down. It has been proven we need a in town Board.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/23/2008 4:48 PM
Donna, can the two remaining Board members appoint this Board members boyfriend?....the problem I see with that is that he can't vote...can't be two votes from the same property and he is not on the deed. We need voting Board members.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:483

11/23/2008 6:08 PM
Posted By SusanW1 on 11/22/2008 6:28 PM You now have a vacancy for the VP position, it can be filled immediately. It depends on what the Bylaws actually say about resignations, appointments, and duties, but in my opinion, Sidney's HOA does not have a President. They have a Vice-President who is "acting in the place and stead of the President". The resignation or even the removal of the President does not automatically "elevate" the VP to the President's position. Instead the VP fills the function of the Pres. until the Board can meet and select a new Pres. Until that meeting and selection happens and is recorded in the minutes, there is no President. Probably doesn't really matter though as there appears to be bigger problems in this HOA. As to the Board appointing the boyfriend, again it depends on what the docs have to say about appointments, but in general, yes they can. Usually the Board can make any appointments necessary, but depending on the docs, there may be ownership restrictions. If they do appoint the boyfriend, then he would be a voting board member. The "can't be two votes from the same property" restriction usually only has to do with HOA member votes, not Board votes. It's not all that uncommon for multiple people from the same household being on a corporation Board together, each with their own vote on Board issues. There is still only one vote for the property for general Member issues.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

11/24/2008 4:52 AM
Sidney, He is not listed on the deed as co-owner. I would say that he cannot be on the Board unless your bylaws allow non owners to be Board members. Normal bylaws also do not allow 2 members from one household to on a Board at the same time. But they are not married--just cohabitated. If this is a possibility that she would nominate him, the other Board members just have to vote to keep him off.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/24/2008 9:08 AM
Thanks all....Oh! well...looks like we will have another no knthing Board and things will go on the same....Our docs do allow non members (I believe this is usually done because the develpoer wants his own people on the Board at first)It really should be changed or at least state "no" out of town Board members. I am sorry to hear that he can still vote even as a non owner and two votes from the same property. Neither of the two remaining Board members were elected both appointed....Our Annual meeting and election is suppose to be held on Jan. 16th but who knows when it will happen. Our old President held ours when ever she wanted...end of March past two years. CC&R's and FL SS meant nothing to her. Tomorrow night should tell us something...

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2504

11/24/2008 9:54 AM
Sydney, In many assn's I believe it's an "unwritten" rule that only one member per household may hold a board position. When my former assn was transitioning from declarant control the developer even stated this to me; however, it is not specified in the bylaws and he wrote them!! Frankly, I don't believe it's a good idea, but I'm sure there are some board members who don't agree -- such as yours. Even though this guy is not a member, the fact that he is interested to serve on the board may be an indication that he is really concerned about the assn. Perhaps you can become friendly with him and clue him in on a few things. At any rate, I certainly hope things turn around (for the better, of course ) in your assn ASAP!! Take care.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

11/24/2008 10:33 AM
Sidney, "You said--I am sorry to hear that he can still vote even as a non owner and two votes from the same property" Where did you see or read that? Unless you have some majic allowance for this in your docs, ONE VOTE FOR ONE UNIT.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:483

11/24/2008 1:26 PM
Donna - I said it. One vote for one unit applies for HOA membership votes. But for Board votes, unless the HOA governing docs or state law prohibit multiple members from one household from serving on the Board, then if this boyfriend is appointed to the Board he will have a full vote on Board issues. However he still will not be able to vote on HOA membership votes. As Mary said it is usually an unwritten rule that only one member from a household can be on the Board, but it typically isn't specified in the docs. I have seen HOAs where both husband and wife are serving on the Board at the same time. Usually this is in smaller HOAs where they are having problems trying to get people to serve.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

11/24/2008 1:33 PM
Dwight, DON'T YOU THINK THAT THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY???? Like maybe the Govenor runs these places? Or maybe someones 8th grade government class? Sidney must be exhausted by now.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2520

11/24/2008 2:10 PM
Dwight and Donna, Not that it matters much in the case, because there seems to be a lot screwed up here, but, do you think the fact that the transfer from the developer to the association, may negate any vote by a non owner on anything, and actually preclude him from being appointed to the Board. Sometimes, the developer may add these little snipets to a set of "cookie cutter" documents, and let the door open when the turn over takes place. I never saw it personally but I have seen some stuff a developers' lawyer has pasted in documents that have a life span only as long as the developer has control. I sure am not suggesting that anyone take up this banner and sic Sidney on the Board to find out. Enough trouble there already and I am sure the changes will come slow and in small amounts unless Sidney can get some support and a good lawyer to rewrite the whole CC&r's. Even then, if this happens someone is going to have to be left standing to carry out the action dictated.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2504

11/25/2008 6:29 AM
Posted By RobertR1 on 11/24/2008 2:10 PM Dwight and Donna, Not that it matters much in the case, because there seems to be a lot screwed up here, but, do you think the fact that the transfer from the developer to the association, may negate any vote by a non owner on anything, and actually preclude him from being appointed to the Board. Sometimes, the developer may add these little snipets to a set of "cookie cutter" documents, and let the door open when the turn over takes place. I never saw it personally but I have seen some stuff a developers' lawyer has pasted in documents that have a life span only as long as the developer has control. I sure am not suggesting that anyone take up this banner and sic Sidney on the Board to find out. Enough trouble there already and I am sure the changes will come slow and in small amounts unless Sidney can get some support and a good lawyer to rewrite the whole CC&r's. Even then, if this happens someone is going to have to be left standing to carry out the action dictated. Robert, If that were the case that particular article of the bylaws would be prefaced with, "while under declarant control". It's not uncommon for bylaws to state nonmembers may serve on the board and/or A/C committee.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2520

11/25/2008 6:48 AM
MaryA, Well, I bow to your greater experience to state that the developer would be so considerate. I wonder why he just didn't take the reference out all together when he turned the property over? In my experience,once the developer gets finished with the project, and has jiggled the documents the way he wants them, he walks out.......period. It is up to the owners to pick up the pieces. Our documents went 25 years before they were re-written. If I recall right from postings here that is not a record. I certainly agree it is not uncommon for non members to serve on Board and I can see specific instances this may work, but run of the mill, the developer put that clause in there to load up the Board and have control.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/25/2008 7:12 AM
I read it on a post below... Dwight---he said that one vote per unit only applied to members not Board members...if both are on the board...is he right or wrong? I need this info by tonight for the meeting.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:483

11/25/2008 7:31 AM
Posted By RobertR1 on 11/25/2008 6:48 AM I certainly agree it is not uncommon for non members to serve on Board and I can see specific instances this may work, but run of the mill, the developer put that clause in there to load up the Board and have control. Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. And it's not even stupidity. That clause is there because when the HOA "Corporation" was formed, the membership consisted of the developer, his wife, and his brother Earl. If the developer included a "No family members" clause, it would make it more difficult for him to get the development going. The developer could include a clause to take effect only after turnover to restrict board membership to one titled homeowner per lot. I've seen some documents that do have something to that effect. But I think that just creates an unnecessary restriction that could make it difficult for an HOA corporation to find enough people to serve on the Board. IMO there is too much concern about this. People are assuming that having both this owner and her boyfriend on the Board will mean that they will vote in lock-step which will lead to bad things for everyone else. Not necessarily true. I know that if my wife were also on the Board with me, there would be a lot of issues on which she would not vote the same way that I do. Not that she would be trying to be contrary, but she has her own opinion on things. And we still sleep together just fine (at least until she starts snoring. )

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:483

11/25/2008 7:43 AM
Posted By SidneyP on 11/25/2008 7:12 AM I read it on a post below... Dwight---he said that one vote per unit only applied to members not Board members...if both are on the board...is he right or wrong? I need this info by tonight for the meeting. Of course I'm right. I'm always right. I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. (insert rimshot) Look at it this way: it would be pointless to have a person sitting on the Board if he didn't have a vote. So unless your documents have a restriction on the number of family members or non-owners who can sit on the Board, then the boyfriend can be elected or appointed to the Board and once there he will have a vote on issues that come before the Board. However, he does not have a vote on issues that come before the general membership.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2520

11/25/2008 8:04 AM
Dwight, I think there should be much concern about anyone not an owner serving on the Board. I understand that there are instances that some HOA's and Condo's generate so much money and their responsibility extend to all kinds of amenities and different physical structures that an expert in many fields would prove helpful, so go out and hire the help, same as putting a lawyer on retainer, we don't give HIM the vote. But it happens and I say if the members don't object, I won't either. For me, a husband wife team on the Board is unwise for all the reasons you seem to think it is not a problem. One on board, one on committee, no problem, we have a husband wife managers, but they don't get a member vote. Our documents state we will have 65 members (65 units) 65 votes, no more. Makes perfect sense to me and I would believe that somewhere back in time this specific was put in there to expressly forbid non members on Board and non members holding vote. Our documents make no reference to having non members on Board and as far as I am concerned, if this rears it's ugly head, it is going to take an amendment of the by-laws and possible the CC&R's. The old saw, we needed the wife/husband to insure a meeting could be held just doen't make sense. If the associations gets to that point, they should be before a judge to get legal direction, and the judge will probably order everone in the association to be on the Board, and give them 60 days to get their house in order. The above is not right, just my opinion.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/25/2008 8:14 AM
DwightT.."IMO there is too much concern about this. People are assuming that having both this owner and her boyfriend on the Board will mean that they will vote in lock-step" Funny Dwight...I agree, my husband and I don't agree on most things..but somehow we make it work out for the best...He hates me being on the Board. I spend to much time on Association business and I have been treated very badly by other Board members, only because I want to follow the rules. But in our case the last President we had, appointed all other Board members and she searched high and low until she could convience someone to volunteer...and she was sure they were in, your words, "lock step" w/her(that included her neighbor, our out of town acting President now). It was a win, win situation for her not the community. If your Association ran out of money to pay bills and you had to take from the Reserve account to do so, would you fire your MC and hire one that charges TWICE as much? Would you fire your lawn service and hire one that charges $3,000. more?....Well, her hand picked Board did just that. I wouldn't, and complained because they did so...After I was elected back on the Board in March...she did the same thing, once again(7th)fired the lawn service for a more expensive one and hired an attorney more costly. I was the only NO vote. So guess what, the Budgeted $10,000 plus never went into the Reserves (not one dime), we eliminated our pressure washing this year, we couldn't file liens and on and on....It all went on services that were no better then the one before....some times a little conflick is good. It appears this put of state acting President is doing the same thing, since he had the newest director and her boyfrien take control the the files...They never told him or offer me the financial records that I needed for my jo as Treasurer. They only followed his directions....See where that got us....It should be interesting to see what happens tonight.

You are not authorized to post a reply.

Page 1 of 2

Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Out of State President...HELP!!!!..long