Experienced HOA attorney

I have seen on this site many times the advice to hire a "good" HOA attorney. How many years of experience etc. would they need, and how do they get their experience.

Presently our "in house" attorney claims to have HOA experience. It appears she was just on her HOA BOD as an officer. She also claims to have - - years experience as counsel. Checking her record she took a sabbatical for three of those years, would they count.

NancyM2

Nancy, what state are you in? There are a lot of good firms out there that do only or specialize in condo/HOA law. Depending on the state, the CAN website may be able to point you in the right direction.

communityassociatons.net

Jon

Nancy, there are a number of things that may be happening. One - because of the two lawsuits, the Board may have decided that litigation experience was more important than HOA experience. It appears she has at least a limited knowledge of HOA's, but her major background may be civil litigation.

Second, the board may have looked at the long-term cost of the two lawsuits and decided that for budgeting purposes, it was better to go the retainer route, with a known amount every month, as opposed to hourly billing which could fluctuate based on the court cases. Most attorney will give a client a lower rate when they receive a retainer fee. $12.5k/month buys you about 50-60 hours per month for an average attorney in your market. For high end one, about 35-40 hours. Without knowing any details about the lawsuits, or other issues an attorney might be working on with the board, it would be hard to hazard a guess as to whether or not the amount is appropriate.

You'll have to look at the track record of your board. Have they generally made reasonable, well-thought out decisions? If so, then it is likely they did with this before entering into an agreement with this attorney. If, however, they have tended to make quick decisions, without much investigation, then you probably are right to at least question their action. So why not simply question it. Write them as an owner asking for their help in understanding this situation and see what kind of response you get.

As for what constitutes an "experienced" HOA attorney, I would have to say that one who has 3-5 years of working with associations as their major clientele usually has been through most of the typical problems. That still may not make him or her a good attorney. To find that out, you have to talk to other or past clients. What I do know is that just having a solid real estate related background does not necessarily qualify an attorney for HOA's/condo's. This is a unique field and associations are usually best served by an attorney with a track record of working with them.

Joe

Given the further information, I think you know that its probably going to take a change in board members to accomplish this. The board probably has the right to enter into contracts without consulting the owners and to retain those professionals that they choose. From your initial post it looks like you're trying to find ways to show she is not as competent an HOA attorney as the board apparently believes. Do you have anyone on the board you can provide information to? I would try to find the budgets of similar associations and compare the "Legal" line item, letting that board member see how much your association is overspending in comparison to others. Normally I don't like doing this because you'd be comparing apples and oranges, but it might be a start.

Just about everything else I can think of means picking a fight with the current board. Is that an option? This is even touchier when an attorney is involved. Unless gross negligence can be shown, other attorneys probably won't want to get involved.

Joe

Joe, another post script ~ our Mgmt co has made the rule that we cannot contact any board member other than through their project manger via e-mail. (that was different when I was on the board) Also I have heard that this Mgmt co. suggests that any time a BOD vote is taken, it should be unaminious. (What ever happenend to different opinions)

Nancy

Roger, as usual your posts are welcome and wise. Let me see if I can outline this simply.

We went through a complete recall of the BOD at the end of 2002 ~ everyone blamed the old board for the mess the "class suit" brought on us. I was one of the new board members elected. We had to levy an assessment of $1,500.00 per homeowner. After carefull planning, and paying all the attorneys costs we finally had a healthy cash flow, even some monies left over. Therefore we were able to reduce the dues from 171.00 a month to 150.00 a month. Every since then the owners think this new group are wonderful and apathy has set in. What they don't realize is that we have had a complete turnover of the BOD several times and the present BOD only know what the Mgmt Co and attorney tells them. I am a lone person out here looking at the financial picture (me a a few others) who are viewed as the troublemakers.

After going through the "class suit" and "recall" and the dues have been reduced I don't think I will have much of an audience. Also the spokesperson (the VP that refuses to take the position of Pres) paints a rosy picture at the general meetings, many times telling untruthfull stories. I will have to wait until the dues go up, or another assessment hits us before I can get anyones attention. ~ then it is too late, and we will be in dept again.

P.S. I loved Sally's post here a while back ~ she said ~ If your having trouble finding new board members "start a rumor" their is going to be another assessment.

NancyM2

Nancy,

Let's see if I can catch up. First the management company, both of the items you discussed are not unusual, although at the far end of that. As administrators, they normally receive the correspondence, prepare comments or take some action and notify the board. Most boards appreciate this as it reduces the amount of actual time they have to spend on adminsitrative details. This is one of the reasons MC's are hired. Of course this can be abused, but you can usually avoid that by copying a board member direct, usually the Secretary, who is supposed to be responsible for association records, including correspondence.

As for the unanimous vote, this is again taking a good recommendation and stretching it to the point of having the opposite effect. Most managers/consultants recommend to boards that once a vote is taken, they show a united front in proceeding to implement it. Here, they're trying to make that into a unanimous vote, which is wrong. Any board member who disagrees with a motion and votes accordingly, should have their dissent noted in the minutes. Otherwise they will be held accountable for bad or illegal actions. The dissent must be in the records.

Have you thought about starting a blog to see if you can stir up some additional interest in making the changes? I've found a number of blogs from owner's trying to affect a change in their community. You can find some of them at:
http://www.communityassociations.net/blog_directory_individual.html

Joe