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Subject: Should your vote count?

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CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

07/25/2006 1:42 PM
GeraldT1, Since we are being so honest, I feel it is O.K for me to tell you this. I have learned more about HOAs in the past month, than I have in the three years I have lived in this community. I’m sure I could have gotten the form from my board, but Roger posted it instead of having to wait for it from the BOD. Opportunity was knocking, so I graciously accepted. This forum will generally answer any questions or any concerns, I may have about HOA. I’m so glad all of you dedicate so much time in educating so many of us that don’t know all the ins and outs of an HOA. If more communities had the support and encouragement all of you have given me, I believe there would be more and more volunteers for HOA. My neighborhood is a far cry from the dream my wife and I thought it was going to be before having our home built here. My impression of an HOA is not my neighborhood. Although, for the most part it’s pretty typical of many HOAs. If a majority of the people that I have gotten responses from, could all live together, there would be no need for this forum. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate that it is available for so many people like me. I just feel that the majority of the responses I have gotten are from people that care. That’s what leadership is all about. I believe a community will run so much better when the board is comprised of the knowledge many of you have provided to so many of us! Thanks once again for all you help Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

07/25/2006 1:54 PM
CharlesW1, While there are similarities in the way HOA's run nationwide, each are unique. The advise given in the HOA forum provides perspective but more often than not, needs to be cross-referenced for it's applicability in each viewer's HOA governing documents, CC&R's, etc. I don't believe the proxy that Roger posted was to be used verbatim, I believe it was an example actually addressed to me. Be that as it may, PLEASE be cautious about using the proxy in your own association, read your by-laws and see if there is a proxy, speak with your secretary, get approval to distribute. You must slow down here and go through YOUR board, get the proxy from your secretary. If they are seeking a proxy example, I certainly suggest using the one Roger posted. GeraldT1

GeraldT1

Posts:0

07/28/2006 10:19 AM
CharlesW1, Any update/status as to meeting quorum, etc.? GeraldT1 NNJ

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

07/29/2006 6:00 AM
GeraldT1, Great memory! I’ll try to keep this brief. I wrote an email to our property manager asking him what else I could do to ensure we make quorum. This was a couple of days ago. I had mentioned going door to door asking for proxies. He had told me at this point, that the attorney is drawing up the paperwork now for the association to become a POA. We are currently an HOA. From what I understand the current board was advised by the property manager to become a POA. Our delinquency rate is very high. FYI, our last meeting, (where elections would have taken place if we had met quorum) we had 69 delinquent out of 275 HO’s. That’s ridiculous! I figured I would go door to door asking for proxies. Once collected I would give them all to the BOD, then they could sort thru them all, only using eligible proxies. I thought this would help meet the required amount needed to meet quorum. Our property manager informed me that the current BOD will have to go door to door to give each homeowner a copy of the By-laws informing them of the change. I don’t really understand it all at this point. What I have been told is that, the homeowner will then be given like 30 days to review the “new by-laws”. A paper attached that says we the homeowner are aware and we the HO approve the new switch. I don’t know something like that, I would think. He said I should just wait until they do that, no sense going door to door twice. Maybe you could answer this for me then. So until quorum is met the current BOD is still President, vice-president, Treasure and Secretary. I just want to do what even I can do to get the process going. I’m eager to get more involved as a homeowner. I want to know what is behind the scenes. Our current president and Vise-president are worthless. They are just bodies taking up seats on the board. Our property manager and secretary do all the work. They are more like a president and vise president than the two that are Prez and vise-prez! I know what they have been doing, witch is NOTHING! I want them out. They have too many issues to discuss. This is where we stand as of Wednesday morning. I wait for the BOD to go door to door to hand out this new and reformed by-laws and receive a signature from the HO accepting the changes and that is when we will ask for the proxy. I guess until then I just wait? Does this sound like the best thing to do? Is there something else I should consider? Thank you Your advice is always helpful Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

07/29/2006 6:32 AM
CharlesW1, You are passionate, that is not in any doubt. I recommend you temper your presumptions of board inadequacy, however accurate they may be. Officer ship (Pres., VP, Treas., Sec.) are decided upon by the board members, not the community. Therefore, if the hard workers (Sec. and Treas.) choose to let the Pres. and VP slack off, that should tell you the dysfunction extends beyond the Pres. and VP. You must read the by-law switch very carefully. What is different between the HOA and POA? What I don't understand is why a possible switch to a POA will halt the election for two members to the board. This makes me suspect there is an agenda, I also believe you are being told to back off. However, your going door to door with an unauthorized proxy (provided by example on this forum) is in my opinion a bit overzealous, and can cause some instability within the community. I recommend you sit back, read the documents very carefully. and excersise your ultimate power which equals one vote. Best of luck!! GeraldT1 NNJ

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3694

07/29/2006 8:00 AM
Charles, it appears your Board is ignorant of the rules or else is stalling. Changing to a POA has nothing to do with electing Directors to the Board. Futhermore, the POA proposal may never get approved and based on owner turnout it certainly would not get approved at a members meeting. Read your By-laws. They should advise on procedures to have another meeting to elect Directors when there was not a quorum. If the By-laws are silent on resetting the annual meeting and you are incorporated I'll bet your state statues for corporations require an annual meeting every year. Assuming you are following Robert's Rules of Order the President could have adjourned the annual meeting to an established later date. This is the only legal business which can be conducted when a quorum is not present. Since this was not done, ask the President (or Board) to to comply with the rules and schedule the meeting immediately so all required annual business of the association can be completed.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

GeraldT1

Posts:0

07/29/2006 10:54 AM
RogerB, Excellent insight, advice, and post. I couldn't understand why changing to a POA was postponing anything, and suspect that replacements to the board or new members are not welcome, for whatever reason. It's impossible to tell definitively, of course. Keep up the good experienced advice RogerB!! GeraldT1 NNJ

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

07/30/2006 1:57 PM
Roger- Maybe I’m not explaining it correctly or maybe I just don’t know myself. I mention to the property manager that I could go door to door and ask for proxies to meet forum, if and when we have another election. The property manager then informed me that the attorney is drawing up the paper to become a POA. At this point, from what I understand a copy of the CC&Rs needs to given to each homeowner and signed saying that they received it. Then they (the homeowner) is given x number of days to sign it and send it back, saying they are fine with the switch. I think what the property manger was says is if you are going to go door to door, then just wait for the papers to get done first and we could hand out the letter asking the HO to sign, killing two birds with one stone. IMO It’s going to be hard enough to get a signature from each HO as it is, I’m sure! This way I can get proxy and the BOD can get the signatures requires for the HOA to switch to a POA. This makes sense? Does is sound right? Your advice is always very helpful Thank you Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3694

07/30/2006 3:37 PM
Chuck, I would definitely separate the two actions. For proxies I would go door to door until a sufficient number are obtained. The annual election needs to be held promptly. For a vote to change the Declaration it will take considerably more time and effort. I don't think you know how much time would be involed in going door to door for every owner. For 50 homes it can take 50 hours or more depending on how many times you have to go back. My recommended procedure for amending your Declaration is to mail ballots to each homeowner along with a letter thoroughly explaining the pros and the cons. After receiving signed ballots, a door to door canvass will be needed to try to secure a vote those that did not return a ballot. Remember, not voting is counted the same as a vote disapproving when it takes XX% approval of ALL owners. It will still be difficult to get sufficient votes to amend if it requires over 67% approval. Also, when personally soliciting votes one should be careful not to make comments which have a bias one way or the other. That is another reason to send a letter of explanation.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

GeraldT1

Posts:0

07/30/2006 6:08 PM
RogerB, Please clarify your statement regarding going door to door to collect proxy. The proxies must be approved, prescribed by Chuck's HOA, correct? GeraldT1 NNJ

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3694

07/30/2006 7:49 PM
Yes that is best; as I have already stated above. Posted By RogerB on 07/25/2006 12:36 PM I would hope you received a proxy form prior to the first annoucement of the annual meeting which allows for its use for the next meeting. If not I would suggest you provide the example form I posted to your Board and suggest they use it. It is best to work through your current Board so you have a good working relationship when you get on the Board.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

07/31/2006 5:57 AM
I do have a really good estimate of going “door to door”. My wife and I walked the entire neighborhood, putting a typed flyer on each mailbox last year. This was very time consuming. That took about 3 hours and we didn’t even go “door to door”. I’m aware on the time involved for sure but, what else am I suppose to do? I’m thinking that’s why the property manager suggested doing the two together. He probably figured “heay if this guy wants to go door to door for proxies, then that’s one more person to help the board, hand out these CC&Rs for the switch to a POA! I’m going to go back and re-read the responses to my post today. I must have forgotten a majority of it! OOPS, SORRY. Going “door to door” really isn’t what it says? We did have proxies prior to the start of the annual elections but with those we still couldn’t meet quorum. I thought if I wanted a chance of getting a seat on the board, I‘m willing to put in the extra work. You seem to have a really good understand of the many different situations that confront a homeowner. WOW! I’m very appreciative, Thank you I know it will be a lot of work going “door to door”. Very time consuming, I’m sure. Can I do it though? Should I suggest it to my BODs first and see what they say to do? I definitely don’t want to start off on the wrong side with the current BOD. I would prefer to get a seat on the BOD as soon as possible. Thanks again Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

07/31/2006 10:01 AM
CharlesW1, As both RogerB and myself have stated, provide an example of the proxy to your board. As RogerB has stated, it is best to work through your current Board so you have a good working relationship when you get on the Board. Don't assume the property manager is thinking anything. Didn't the property manager tell you not to go door to door? Understand that switching from a POA to an HOA should not exclude the need for a duly called meeting to fill spots on the board. This makes me suspect if the switch will entail changes in the newly formed POA written into the language which reduces seats on the board, therefore nixing the need for new board members. GeraldT1 NNJ

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

07/31/2006 10:32 AM
GeraldT1- I just emailed the BOD, to see if they have a copy of a proxy, If not I put the one (I believe) Roger had provided. You are right, I shouldn’t assume what he is thinking, and that would make to much sense. He has never told me not to go door to door. All he said was “In addition as I mentioned at the meeting the board is looking to go POA which is in the process of completing at the attorneys office. This will be sent out to each homeowner and being that we did not have a quorum, this will most likely have to be also a door to door visit at the same time” I’m not sure why we would have to go door to door, though Thanks again. Your advice is very helpful Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

EllenB
(Virginia)

Posts:7

08/23/2006 11:45 AM
Money talks! Sometime mentioning possible increases in dues gets more of a turn out! We all suffer with apathy.

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:818

08/25/2006 9:47 AM
Just thought I would give you all an update. I have been told by the property manager that the attorney is working on the documents for our HOA to be a POA. I sent an email to the current BOD, questioning how long could the meeting be adjourned for? It’s difficult enough to even understand what I was reading, first off. You need to have an HOA attorney just to comprehend the wording alone. I was reading the bylaws about meeting quorum. What makes a member eligible to vote? How many eligible voters it takes to hold a quorum? I found this bylaw stating, which makes me assume that we only had a 30 day window for an adjournment. I don’t think that reducing the % to meet quorum would be a good idea for our community, although I would like to know why it is that, the members that do attend and that are eligible to vote can’t be quorum! If the other members aren’t there to voice their opinion then why should those being a member even matter. For god sake! It isn’t like the members are knocking the doors down,looking to volunteer. The only time the members that were there are even going to care is when they receive a violation notice. Sorry for the long post! I have read all the post once again this morning, very helpful as they were the first time you all addressed them to me. Thank you all once again, Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Should your vote count?